Human rights

[aaron bond]

We follow our club and football in general for enjoyment (not always easy as a City fan granted) so I don't like to let politics influence how I feel about my club.

Yes, the UAE has human rights issues, but in reality, the only way that situation will improve is by the UAE becoming more engaged with the rest of the world. Taking over City, and attempting to project Abu Dhabi across the globe, is one way of doing that.

If you look at what Sheikh has done for the club and local area since they've taken over, that can only be considered a good thing, and something that should definitely be celebrated.

And as others have said above, you could look at owners of all other clubs and I'm sure you could find something in their past that could be frowned upon by others, not to mention the corruption at all levels in football's governing bodies.

[patrickblue]

What have the rags got to do with Guantanemo? Has the red nosed one been sending journalists there when they don't agree with him?

They have nothing to do with Guantanamo. But some people are fucking ignorant.

Clarify please, I'm lost here.

[john@staustell]

Middle East dictatorships in human rights shocker.

Just another dig at City isn't it? As they dont want to write about the unfolding disaster at the Swamp.

[ant london]

I like David Conn but...as a City fan...I would hope he wouldn't do pieces like this as he really is just giving the rest of the media another stick to beat us with.

I'm pretty loathe to agree with Mansour21 after his views on the rape trial but on this I suspect he is not too far wide of the mark.

Fact is that Egypt is the home for a lot of the Muslim Brotherhood's "thought leadership" and they are responsible for trying to export that across the region.

The reason that Egypt did NOT get a lot of financial aid from it's gulf neighbours once the MB took over is precisely because none of those countries wanted an Islamic revolution in their own countries.

The ruling Sunni elites in the economic powerhouses do not want to be replaced by Muslim theocracies....and I fully understand why and think, personally, that they are right to resist anything which could lead to that.

Whilst media transparency in the UAE or that region is not great (so I wouldn't necessarily believe what I read in any local media) it should be noted that its a small country...with a tiny local population so the likelihood of locals knowing who these ppl are and what they did is pretty significant. Chances of an emirati knowing who they are and what they did is significantly greater than a journalist based in Manchester IMO...or HRW or Amnesty.

I'm not saying maybe the practices used to hold and "question" them not a bit dubious but, as others have said, the uk is complicit in quite a lot of that.

In short I'm not too concerned

[Slim]

What they need to do is rebrand torture, then everything is peachy. Anyone for waterboarding?

Waterboarding? Well that sounds like a bunch of fun, they should make it an Olympic sport by the sounds.

Of course blaming Manchester City(of course they are trying to smear us like fucking always, don't pretend that isn't what this is) for human right's violations in the UAE is like trying to blame the Royal Society of Arts(president is Princess Anne) for human rights violations carried out by England.

[Burt]

The only part that i would agree on is regarding the workers they are paid very low salaries. But for those who were convicted lately for "freedom of speech" or to change the ruling system in the UAE are a bunch of liars and they were lucky to get 5 to 10 years. They were all from Islamic Brotherhood based in Egypt an organisation that seeks political positions in Egypt and other islamic countries a terrorist organisation under the name of islam several bombing operations in Egypt plus an assasination to former Egypt president Al Sadat. Now when they finally got they want and Mursi became the president of Egypt he didn't last over a year because they have lied to the people and gave false promises he almost sold part of the country.

They have been training those few emiratees brainwashed them and they chose the teachers and academic people to influence on the youngsters. Their demand was to change the ruling system in UAE so the islamic brotherhood can a have a chance in a rich country too. But ask yourselves why would we want to change that? Free education up to bachelors and master, free health treatment(they send u abroad if needed), no taxes, high salaries, job opportunities, free land once you are married and a 0 interest loan to start building a new home for 25 years, and most important thing the feel of safety. I sleep at home with open gates and unlocked door how many of you guys can do that?

They have been caught and warned many times some of them are from well known tribes some are unknown or dont even have citizenship. Even those tribes have made it clear that they were ashamed of them. Would your country allow it if someone is trying to disrupt things from the outside? Of course not. Its a matter of homeland security, and what do you guys say if its aint broken dont fix it? There are flaws here and there but thats normal everywhere you go.

They have been our sheikhs and leaders for centuries its a big loving family! As for the human rights organisation they can fuck off! Or they can have a look on whats happening in Iraq and Syria.

I'll tell you summat mate. That is one of the most interesting and brilliant posts that I have read on ere for quite some time.

I've read Conn's book recently and he's a right self righteous bastard who talks shite to bring attention to himself. He's a hypocritical cunt who I would like to smack square in the mouth with my hob-nailed Doc Marten boots.

[Arjan Van Schotte]

I'll tell you summat mate. That is one of the most interesting and brilliant posts that I have read on ere for quite some time.

I've read Conn's book recently and he's a right self righteous bastard who talks shite to bring attention to himself. He's a hypocritical cunt who I would like to smack square in the mouth with my hob-nailed Doc Marten boots.

It's clear that most don't want to debate the issues, or don't feel it's important, so I won't bang on. Except to say there are so many flaws in his argument, combined with a spectacular missing of the point, and a few outright lies thrown in for good measure.

I've never said that Mcfc are to "blame" for what happens in AD, just that I'm surprised at the seeming lack of critical thinking regarding the nature of our owners.

[john@staustell]

Arjan I dont really see what point you are trying to make. Is it that the whole world has just been awakened to this? Of course not it's incredibly obvious and has been for 5 years, so why bring it up now?

This is really a political thing so shouldn't be debated here - but what's happening in Egypt is that people are fearful of the alternative - they dont want to run the risk of being ruled by an ultra government of Ayatollahs or Taliban-types, chucking away all their tellies, banning female education etc - you could go on forever.

Anyone who thinks the middle east can ever form nice cosy western democracies is - well I shant say it because you ARE a clever fella.

So what point are we making?

[Arjan Van Schotte]

Arjan I dont really see what point you are trying to make. Is it that the whole world has just been awakened to this? Of course not it's incredibly obvious and has been for 5 years, so why bring it up now?

This is really a political thing so shouldn't be debated here - but what's happening in Egypt is that people are fearful of the alternative - they dont want to run the risk of being ruled by an ultra government of Ayatollahs or Taliban-types, chucking away all their tellies, banning female education etc - you could go on forever.

Anyone who thinks the middle east can ever form nice cosy western democracies is - well I shant say it because you ARE a clever fella.

So what point are we making?

I didn't bring it up this time mate, but I have previously expressed concerns, so my viewpoint hasn't suddenly emerged.

I'm not someone who finds it easy to separate politics from my 'purchasing decisions' if you like, and football is no different. I know I'm in the minority, and accept that.

[Burt]

I'll tell you summat mate. That is one of the most interesting and brilliant posts that I have read on ere for quite some time.

I've read Conn's book recently and he's a right self righteous bastard who talks shite to bring attention to himself. He's a hypocritical cunt who I would like to smack square in the mouth with my hob-nailed Doc Marten boots.

It's clear that most don't want to debate the issues, or don't feel it's important, so I won't bang on. Except to say there are so many flaws in his argument, combined with a spectacular missing of the point, and a few outright lies thrown in for good measure.

I've never said that Mcfc are to "blame" for what happens in AD, just that I'm surprised at the seeming lack of critical thinking regarding the nature of our owners.

OK, I knew I shouldn't but I'm bored here at work and have an hour to kill before I leave for the day and you've drawn me in Arjan.

Your comments could also be levelled at David Conn and the lies and shite that he has written in the past, some of it about our owners and club (try reading his book). I'm fuckin sick of the media and utter cunts tryin to drag our club through the mud. Fuckin hypocritical cunts the lot of em and while I cannot profess to know much about what goes on in the far east, I do know that the west are far more palpable to be murdering, lying cunts and I don't truct any of the cunts.

Fuck um I say!

[Arjan Van Schotte]

I know what you're saying mate, but I don't think there are any lies or embellishments in the article, and he could've mentioned a lot more (see other thread). I don't know his reporting, but I guess his case would be that he's written the article now due to the court cases.

[Burt]

I know what you're saying mate, but I don't think there are any lies or embellishments in the article, and he could've mentioned a lot more (see other thread). I don't know his reporting, but I guess his case would be that he's written the article now due to the court cases.

The point I was trying to make mate, was that he is a known lying cunt so why pay credance to any of his writings. He's a shitstirring cunt at best and I'd like to shaft his arse with a broken biscuit............

[Lev Bronstein]

Like it or not, the events in UAE reflect upon us. ADUG bought City to enhance their reputation. They've put about £1billion into the club and may well put more in. The money has been spent so that the owners can project a modern, as opposed to medieval, image to the world; so that they can sit comfortably at the top table of the worlds rich.

We - the club, the players and most of all, us fans - have been used. But we haven't minded bacause of the success that the money has brought us. Nevertheless, we have been used. We are part of the situation and sticking our heads in the sand is not an option.

I take the point that the opposition are mostly inspired by the Muslim Brotherhood and them coming to power would be a disaster for the region. However, torture and a warped justice system will become part of the problem not the solution.

So Sheikh, pull your finger out, have a word with with your uncle or whoever and tell him that putting electrodes through someone's scrotum is damaging to the family so stop it.

[CuteMancs]

Like it or not, the events in UAE reflect upon us. ADUG bought City to enhance their reputation. They've put about £1billion into the club and may well put more in. The money has been spent so that the owners can project a modern, as opposed to medieval, image to the world; so that they can sit comfortably at the top table of the worlds rich.

We - the club, the players and most of all, us fans - have been used. But we haven't minded bacause of the success that the money has brought us. Nevertheless, we have been used. We are part of the situation and sticking our heads in the sand is not an option.

I take the point that the opposition are mostly inspired by the Muslim Brotherhood and them coming to power would be a disaster for the region. However, torture and a warped justice system will become part of the problem not the solution.

So Sheikh, pull your finger out, have a word with with your uncle or whoever and tell him that putting electrodes through someone's scrotum is damaging to the family so stop it.

This is a great response to this question, its a difficult and awkward subject to deal with. It would be naïve to say there isn't abuse in UAE, but the sad fact is that torture and abuse is going on all over the world, including here in the west, and we manage to turn a blind eye to it. The way I see it is that MCFC will always be bigger than who our owners are, or even who our manager is, the club comes first. I may well be burying my head in the sand here, but in this case, its how I feel.

[brite blu sky]

Although I fully understand why we keep politics out of the main forum, this particular issue I feel has some relevance here. It is politics yes but it is really about how a political situation impacts us as fans.

We should all be aware that the Guardian has an agenda so the article is being used somewhat as propaganda.

While equally Mansour21 will have an agenda. That's not a problem but in viewing all this you have to bear it in mind. That said as a counter argument to the HRW position it is very interesting. Maybe Mansour21 is one of those who benefit in UAE and so is positive and relaxed about the general situation. With the picture he paints you can see why.

As I wrote in arjen's thread on this issue just complaining about it is not really very productive. Personally I do not care for simply accusing or posturing, I always go to the next level, which is what can be done - what can I do. Some people seemed to have a problem with that, but the complex situation in UAE requires more than just criticism, however detailed and well intended.
I have no disagreement that UAE should be encouraged to improve, none at all. The question for me is realistically how they should do that and how could City or city fans in this case help in some way.

That is a serious question and I would ask of the posters that don't like the situation there to say what they would do IF they imagined for a moment THEY were the current rulers of UAE. What would you practically do about it?

[Original Dub]

This is a silly fucking thread to have on the maine forum.

There are human rights issues all over the place and depending on where you are pointing the finger from, it differs greatly. China is one of the worst offenders.

And I still eat Chow mein regularly.

The end.

[Beefymcfc]

A disgusting piece used to promote an ideal whilst hiding behind the guise of sport.

David Conn is an intelligent man and knows that sport is a big pull. Associating our name with Human Rights abuses gives it more air time and those who are not supporters will use it as a bat to beat us with.

This issue was brought up a few weeks ago on SSN, mainly concentrating on why Abramovich bought Chelsea. We now see it can be also attributed to us but imo this was not the aim of the takeover and Conn, who seems to have turned all things City into a personal crusade, is just using our name to promote more ill-feeling.

If it was genuinely aimed at bringing the Human Rights issue to the fore then it should've been about the Middle East > UAE >Abu Dhabi, not labelled as Manchester City.

It's amazing though, how we (the West) try to lecture other countries on how they should run theirs. Sounds like a guilty past to me.

[Socrates]

I accept this is far from black and white and that they needed to act to prevent an islamic revolution. It is a long road to successful democracy in that part of the world and I have little doubt that that family remains the best option for the Emirates. The fact the prison terms are not draconian and that a proportion were cleared stands out but I will nontheless heavily criticise tge use of torture same as I would in my own or any other country!

[Beefymcfc]

I accept this is far from black and white and that they needed to act to prevent an islamic revolution. It is a long road to successful democracy in that part of the world and I have little doubt that that family remains the best option for the Emirates. The fact the prison terms are not draconian and that a proportion were cleared stands out but I will nontheless heavily criticise tge use of torture same as I would in my own or any other country!

Weren't they arrested for trying to overthrow the government, protesting about the current state and basically causing problems in a country where they were guests/visitors?

I know this may not be an issue in a western country but many parts of the middle east are still ruled from a controlling family and with an iron fist (in places). It's as if a group have gone there deliberately trying to cause trouble and got pulled for it. When in Rome, as they say.

I do wonder what happened to Guy Fawkes. It maybe a long time ago but at the same time we must surely have given him a fair trial and sent him to prison?

[Nickyboy]

For a so called City fan that Conn sure does seem to always portray us in a negative light.

And large sections of 'Richer than God' made me very angry reading them