End Of The Challenge?

[FA cup winners 2006]

To get any sort of a title challenge back on track, we need to do 1 of 2 things.

1. This bunch of wimps needs to get angry and play like the world is against them. Go out with the intention that every 50-50 challenge is critical, that the ref is a cheat and should be harrassed from the start, that they have no friends in the other team and that doesnt change for 90mins. Have this attitude with intensity and we will give some teams a proper hiding.

2. Recognise that these players are not as good as they think they are and set up not to concede. Flat back four, 2 deep lying midfielders, 3 mids with kev in the middle and a lone striker. Only 1 full back pushes forward at a time, 2 deep lying mids do not go beyond the ball, we do not let 1 on 1 situations occur and the players act as if they are simply playing against better players and 3 points would be like a cup win.

I dont think we are capable of doing number 1 at the moment. We are just too nice and our finishing is atrocious. Number 2 would take a big climb down from Pep and he may not want to do it as he may feel the players will be able to learn the tactics with more practice but we need to stop the rot and a few 1-0 wins would be ideal.

I would like to see scenario 2 for 4-6 games and then open up when the confidence is back

[sheblue]

The title is gone forget about it. It's securing top 4 now. To do that we must start grinding out results. Set the team up not to be so fucking wide open. mother of God we made a pile of shite like leceister look good.
We must not get beaten in the week. That must be the priority, not complicated formations enforced on players who can't play them.
Go to 443 or 451 for a while and steady the fucking ship before it capzises.

[Nick]

wow you miserable lot, hopefully trying psychology here

its early fucking days. we just look shite and pep isn't improving things. but he should now have had the wake up call that he isn't a messiah and get back to basics rather than this '' i wont change my shit'' attitude (when in fact he changes it every 10 minutes through the game)

[Mikhail Chigorin]

To get any sort of a title challenge back on track, we need to do 1 of 2 things.

1. This bunch of wimps needs to get angry and play like the world is against them. Go out with the intention that every 50-50 challenge is critical, that the ref is a cheat and should be harrassed from the start, that they have no friends in the other team and that doesnt change for 90mins. Have this attitude with intensity and we will give some teams a proper hiding.

2. Recognise that these players are not as good as they think they are and set up not to concede. Flat back four, 2 deep lying midfielders, 3 mids with kev in the middle and a lone striker. Only 1 full back pushes forward at a time, 2 deep lying mids do not go beyond the ball, we do not let 1 on 1 situations occur and the players act as if they are simply playing against better players and 3 points would be like a cup win.

I dont think we are capable of doing number 1 at the moment. We are just too nice and our finishing is atrocious. Number 2 would take a big climb down from Pep and he may not want to do it as he may feel the players will be able to learn the tactics with more practice but we need to stop the rot and a few 1-0 wins would be ideal.

I would like to see scenario 2 for 4-6 games and then open up when the confidence is back

There are a fair number of positive, practical, commonsense suggestions in this post, so well done to you.

We definitely "need to stop the rot" and the points made in section 2 could go a way to bring this about.

The lack communication between Bravo and the back line is significant and could be down to language differences (does anyone know how well Bravo speaks English ??) so I would immediately try to address this by bringing in either Caballero, or even Gunn.

We need a centre-half so, purely as a short-term measure, I'd move Fernandhino into the back line and I'd partner him with either Sagna, or even Tosin, in an orthodox back four. For the full back positions, short-term or otherwise, I'd bring in Maffeo and Angelino. I'd play Navas and Sane on the flanks in front of the two youngsters as a little bit of added security whilst they found their feet in the Prem.

I'd draft in Garcia to replace Fernandhino in midfield.

Up front in the absence of Aguero, because of the failure to put away the vast proportion of the chances we create in every game, I might consider playing Nolito at centre-forward to see how this works out, partnering him with Nacho as circumstances and opponents might dictate.

Finally, I'd have Yaya available but, primarily as an impact sub, rather than a starter.

Just my own thoughts in addition to the good ones made in 'FA Cup winners 2006' excellent post.

[carl_feedthegoat]

Long way to go yet..the fuckign league is not won in early fuckign December ffs !!

Having said that , if Pep does not change his mindset then we will fuckign struggle to reach the top 3.

[Crossie]

We are absolutely capable of winning the league. Think about our start to the season. Our shit form is due to us being sussed by Celtic so now every team just gets in our faces, takes chances and knows they are going to score at least one. Then you put 11 behind the ball and rape us on the break.

The first 11's we can put out should be winning every game, the reason they are not is the set up, changing the team every single fucking game,tactics, lack of plan b or c and a manager who looks too stubborn to change.

We need tiki taki version 2 -Premier League style, which unfortunately for him requires the odd lump fwd, getting your socks dirty and having a few pops from 20 yards.

I was thinking today, can you imagine Goater in this team? He'd have 40 goals already this season. But the art of the poacher has been lost.

[City64]

In a nutshell if we don't beat Watford midweek and get a good hiding off Arsenal a week today we are in deep shit

THE FUCKING END !!!

[Mikhail Chigorin]

In a nutshell if we don't beat Watford midweek and get a good hiding off Arsenal a week today we are in deep shit

THE FUCKING END !!!

If you look at the League table, all the way down to 11th place, there are only two teams who have conceded more goals than we have.

One of these is Watford (the other is Stoke) who have conceded 26, so the incentive is there for us to start scoring a few, prior to the encounter with Arsenic Wenger's mob.

[Arjan Van Schotte]

2. Recognise that these players are not as good as they think they are and set up not to concede. Flat back four, 2 deep lying midfielders, 3 mids with kev in the middle and a lone striker. Only 1 full back pushes forward at a time, 2 deep lying mids do not go beyond the ball, we do not let 1 on 1 situations occur and the players act as if they are simply playing against better players and 3 points would be like a cup win.

I dont think we are capable of doing number 1 at the moment. We are just too nice and our finishing is atrocious. Number 2 would take a big climb down from Pep and he may not want to do it as he may feel the players will be able to learn the tactics with more practice but we need to stop the rot and a few 1-0 wins would be ideal.

I would like to see scenario 2 for 4-6 games and then open up when the confidence is back

Spot on mate, exactly my thinking. Stop trying to outscore the opposition when it's clearly not working.

[City64]

In a nutshell if we don't beat Watford midweek and get a good hiding off Arsenal a week today we are in deep shit

THE FUCKING END !!!

If you look at the League table, all the way down to 11th place, there are only two teams who have conceded more goals than we have.

One of these is Watford (the other is Stoke) who have conceded 26, so the incentive is there for us to start scoring a few, prior to the encounter with Arsenic Wenger's mob.

Sunderland , Burnley and Middlesborough have better defenders and a keeper than us MC . Pep has lost the plot bigtime .

[Dimples]

Title is possible but not probable.

Chelsea will have a wobble, over relialant on Costa and Hazzard but we need a big wobble..
Arsenal will bottle it as usual.
Liverpool without Coutinho struggle.

I think we will beat Watford and Arsenal if ref's are reasonable (with a fair ref we would have beaten Chelsea).
Everybody is over reacting. It is like a pendulum. Setup from first 12 games has been Sussed. We will find a new way.

[johnny crossan]

Not the end, not even the beginning of the end, but the end of the beginning.

[Dameerto]

Is that you Winston?

[johnny crossan]

Is that you Winston?

Churchill's talent for vituperation was also unmatched, Lloyd George said of him

'‘He would make a drum of out of the skin of his own mother in order to sound his own praises".

which was pretty vituperative too

[Mikhail Chigorin]

Is that you Winston?

Churchill's talent for vituperation was also unmatched, Lloyd George said of him

'‘He would make a drum of out of the skin of his own mother in order to sound his own praises".

which was pretty vituperative too

You can't beat a good bit of vituperation JC

I quite like the sardonic quote, supposedly attributed to Churchill, of his comment to Lady Astor i.e.

Lady Astor......Winston, if I was your wife, I'd put poison in your coffee.

Churchill.........Nancy, if I was your husband, I'd drink it.

[MilnersJaw]

when you still have a shit defence like us, of course its the end of the challenge. How much money have we spent at the back in the 2 to 3 years and it has got worse.

[South Stand Balti]

when you still have a shit defence like us, of course its the end of the challenge. How much money have we spent at the back in the 2 to 3 years and it has got worse.

Well it's not going to get any better soon. Spafia saying only Jesus will sign in January.

[roblues]

Pep is obviously quite stubborn and is committed to playing the 'right way' immediately. If he was to send out a team over the next two matches that could shut the game down, and we end up with two 0-0 games before Xmas, would we judge that as (a) progress, (b) a success, (c) both or (d) neither?

Mancini stifled a home derby in his second season and while it felt shitty at the time, it turned out to be the start of something huge. However, I strongly feel that if Pep did a 180 now and scrapped his philosophy for pragmatism he would lose respect inside and outside of the club and it would essentially write off our chances this year. Tough to know what he should do.

[Dimples]

Pep is obviously quite stubborn and is committed to playing the 'right way' immediately. If he was to send out a team over the next two matches that could shut the game down, and we end up with two 0-0 games before Xmas, would we judge that as (a) progress, (b) a success, (c) both or (d) neither?

Mancini stifled a home derby in his second season and while it felt shitty at the time, it turned out to be the start of something huge. However, I strongly feel that if Pep did a 180 now and scrapped his philosophy for pragmatism he would lose respect inside and outside of the club and it would essentially write off our chances this year. Tough to know what he should do.

I and several others have said this already, Pep is going to play his way, even if the players do not fit his style.
Expect some more defensive errors until he gets his preferred players in.

But I still say it is not as bad as most people think.
We are playing the opposition and the refs (i.e. TV money).
If the ref had been unbiased we would have beaten Chelsea and two key players would not be suspended.
Even last w/e the ref gave us nothing.
Would we be having this inquest if it was a level playing field - no we would not.

So for me the question is - am I going to keep watching a corrupt PL league, is there any point?

How can you judge Pep when he is stitched up by the TV money?
The fucking TV pundits are corrupt as well, snouts in the trough, etc...

I am really pissed off. Never thought I would consider not watching City but the system really stinks.
Might go lower leagues and watch honest games.

[Beefymcfc]

Pep is obviously quite stubborn and is committed to playing the 'right way' immediately. If he was to send out a team over the next two matches that could shut the game down, and we end up with two 0-0 games before Xmas, would we judge that as (a) progress, (b) a success, (c) both or (d) neither?

Mancini stifled a home derby in his second season and while it felt shitty at the time, it turned out to be the start of something huge. However, I strongly feel that if Pep did a 180 now and scrapped his philosophy for pragmatism he would lose respect inside and outside of the club and it would essentially write off our chances this year. Tough to know what he should do.

I and several others have said this already, Pep is going to play his way, even if the players do not fit his style.
Expect some more defensive errors until he gets his preferred players in.

But I still say it is not as bad as most people think.
We are playing the opposition and the refs (i.e. TV money).
If the ref had been unbiased we would have beaten Chelsea and two key players would not be suspended.
Even last w/e the ref gave us nothing.
Would we be having this inquest if it was a level playing field - no we would not.

So for me the question is - am I going to keep watching a corrupt PL league, is there any point?

How can you judge Pep when he is stitched up by the TV money?
The fucking TV pundits are corrupt as well, snouts in the trough, etc...

I am really pissed off. Never thought I would consider not watching City but the system really stinks.
Might go lower leagues and watch honest games.

No need to go chuck it in mate, it just needs a slight tweak in mentality. There was a point during our first PL winning season when I hit the roof, completely lost it, and it wasn't, and it wasn't one of our games. Mancini had been very specific earlier in the season with regard to how we were being treated (on a different playing field to the Rags) which he obviously believed was having a detrimental effect on our season. The crap decisions we were getting seemed to dissipate but then the Rags seemed to be getting everything. And that's where I flipped.

Watching the Rags v Fulham game, the Rags leading 1-0, and after being under sustained pressure from Fulham, succomed to it at brought Danny Murphy down in the box. It was the most obvious penalty ever but somehow Oliver and his officials failed to give it. Rags went into win it. Everything in my room went, I went absolutely berserk. Combine this with what we'd seen in our previous game against Stoke, where they were allowed to kick and hack our players off the pitch (wasn't it Silva who was elbowed, receiving a bandaged head while no card given?), Leaving us little option but accept a draw.

And that's where my mentality changed completely. Yes, I already knew that the game was rigged in a way, just look at the Rags first PL title, being played until the point where they scored. Or the Rags v Arse game where the Invincibles lost their run to what can only be called a massacre from the Rags, aided and abetted by the one and only Mike Riley, latterly promoted to the head of PiGMOL.

The difference prior to us challenging the Rags was that we didn't really care, we had other battles to fight. Now we were challenging directly it became oh so obvious and really hurt deep down because we could see that crown, and it was being ripped away from us.

And that's where the mentality change kicked in, we weren't just playing the teams on the field, we were playing the entire establishment, one that had been built on the success of the Rags, Dippers and Arse, ie. those that had built Sky and the PL to where they are.

Although I'm a very noisy supporter at the ground, I became obsessive with it and anytime there was a bad decision, something dodgy, or even something against us, I went apeshit at the ref, just like many others in the ground. Paddy Vieira made public that the Rags were getting dubious calls and that made mine, and the majority of City fans attitudes, more justified.

The end result of that season may not have anything to do with the fans but, by fuck, it felt good to shove it down their throats. Watching that ball hit the back of the net, the ping as it went in was something that I will never experience again; how could that be topped?

But the change in attitude from one of a football fan to that of a football fan/establishment hater really had an affect in my eyes but has somehow been lost with the continued shit we see week in/week out; City fans just get worn out with it all. Now that many are seeing it again, it's now time to not down arms, but step up and be counted, giving the likes of Sky, PL and PiGMOL the same as what they've dished out. Berate the ref at every level, force the club to bring up injustices, and don't allow the likes of Sky/BT to have cart blanche when it comes to our reporting. That 'Circling the Waggons' hasn't ever been more apt.

So, in short, don't let the bastards grind you down and come out fighting. The club needs the fans just as much as we need the club, so let's do them justice and fight for what we believe.

Fuck the lot of 'em!