Centerbacks?

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

I think the need for two full backs is more urgent

[Green & Blue]

I can't think of any centrebacks as no matter how good they are there bound to turn to shite if they join us.

Seamus Coleman would be good shout for a full back as would David Alaba from Bayern but I just don't see this calibre of player being available in January.

[Arjan Van Schotte]

I can't think of any centrebacks as no matter how good they are there bound to turn to shite if they join us.

Seamus Coleman would be good shout for a full back as would David Alaba from Bayern but I just don't see this calibre of player being available in January.

I think that's an interesting point. Have we signed poor centre halves, or have we somehow made them play poorly?

I'm sure some smartarse will turn up shortly, but can't remember too many complaints when we signed half of them, and boateng for example isn't exactly playing in the conference.

[Pretty Boy Lee]

I can't think of any centrebacks as no matter how good they are there bound to turn to shite if they join us.

Seamus Coleman would be good shout for a full back as would David Alaba from Bayern but I just don't see this calibre of player being available in January.

I think that's an interesting point. Have we signed poor centre halves, or have we somehow made them play poorly?

I'm sure some smartarse will turn up shortly, but can't remember too many complaints when we signed half of them, and boateng for example isn't exactly playing in the conference.

You make a good point. I think personally that we've signed a bunch of center halves that would have been ok next to kompany but can't form a partnership without him. He's a leader and an organizer and we've played several systems that require 2 or 3 defenders to be isolated against counter attacks. To do this successfully you need to be either supremely organized which we are with vinny or super quick which none of them really are.

Our captain is a clever player and one we are going to need to replace somehow.

[dazby]

I reckon we signed our centre backs too young, placed too much expectation on them and then got rid of them too early. Just like Stones, you can't expect perfection at 21-22.

[Slim]

I can't think of any centrebacks as no matter how good they are there bound to turn to shite if they join us.

Seamus Coleman would be good shout for a full back as would David Alaba from Bayern but I just don't see this calibre of player being available in January.

I think that's an interesting point. Have we signed poor centre halves, or have we somehow made them play poorly?

I'm sure some smartarse will turn up shortly, but can't remember too many complaints when we signed half of them, and boateng for example isn't exactly playing in the conference.

Is the Premier League the most physical/fastest league in the world? Maybe the ones we're buying aren't suited to this league. I thought Mangala would come good, being physically he's well suited but any period of form he's had seems to be short-lived and maybe doesn't have the consistency to perform at the same level at the moment. That being said dazby might be right on their age being a factor and if we'd got a loan for him in England we might see him grow into the role.

Also Savic played in the CL final last season, so obviously they're not all shit.

[Arjan Van Schotte]

All fair points, but I think PBL might have fingered the issue. It's not lots more CBs we need, it's a captain kompany replacement.

Thinking back, the amount of times the stats that have been wheeled out about number of goals conceded with Vinny in the team, against without Vinny in the team etc etc.

And also, a lot of the horror defending I remember, when I think back, was when Vinny wasn't playing?

Reminds of the whole "demichelis is shit" trope going round at first, and I wondered how you get to play that many games for Argentina if you're shit at football...!

[phips]

We're repeatedly being linked to Van Dijk. Latest reports say Southampton won't entertain any offers in January but are willing to listen in summer.

Not a fan. I mean he plays well for Southampton but he would be taking the step from Celtic to us in couple of years. Too big of a reach.

Having said that, we don't only need quality at the position but also quantity so I wouldn't complain. What we really need though is Kompany level talent.

admittedly it could the "Big fish in a small pond" thing but i think he's the best CB in the league (along with Alderweireld) and that the club should go get him.

i could be partial as well but 2 other young and unproven talents are Sule and Christensen. can't see Chelsea selling us Christensen but if they get Sule then he may be surplus. Jonathan Tah is a great player too but Bayer will not sell.

[Hazy2]

He rewired a 5ft 6 midfielder into a centre half, Puyol was a crash bang wallop centre half turned into a world beater. Players like Dawson & Van Dyk is easy if we offer the money and not mess about, Get it done deals. Pep is after systems that work to players strengths, however they must have a pass in them under pressure most of the time, as it his high risk high reward defending, or they are of no use to him and the team he is building. I go for Dawson as Pullis has worked on him his bad habits will be few and far between, he has room to improve but the basics are there. Van Dyk is the star quality player we need we also saw earlier in the season at the Etihad he is only getting better and better.

[RodneyRodney]

How about hijacking United's move for Lindelof ? Is he any good - anyone know ?

[Foreverinbluedreams]

How about hijacking United's move for Lindelof ? Is he any good - anyone know ?

The last time we hijacked U****d's move for a centre back we ended up signing Otamendi.

[Foreverinbluedreams]

He rewired a 5ft 6 midfielder into a centre half, Puyol was a crash bang wallop centre half turned into a world beater. Players like Dawson & Van Dyk is easy if we offer the money and not mess about, Get it done deals. Pep is after systems that work to players strengths, however they must have a pass in them under pressure most of the time, as it his high risk high reward defending, or they are of no use to him and the team he is building. I go for Dawson as Pullis has worked on him his bad habits will be few and far between, he has room to improve but the basics are there. Van Dyk is the star quality player we need we also saw earlier in the season at the Etihad he is only getting better and better.

My main concern with the likes of Van Dijk and your suggestion of Dawson is that we can all see how good or otherwise they are playing in sides with a defensive set up, what happens then when they're asked to play in a set up where they're more exposed? Will they still cut the mustard?

[sheblue]

I reckon we signed our centre backs too young, placed too much expectation on them and then got rid of them too early. Just like Stones, you can't expect perfection at 21-22.

Agree with this point, a point often overlooked. CBs are rarely at the top of their game in their early 20s. Its a specialised role, a young CB makes a mistake and it leads to a goal, then all of a sudden he's shite etc, immediately placing them under pressure. Young CBs need time to learn the game, its as much about correct decision making as it is football ability. Stones is a classic example, a gifted lad but needs to learn his trade fully. I wonder if pep by not playing him every game is trying to take it slowly with him, not wanting to place him under too much pressure too quickly.

Wisdom only comes with years.

[Hazy2]

He rewired a 5ft 6 midfielder into a centre half, Puyol was a crash bang wallop centre half turned into a world beater. Players like Dawson & Van Dyk is easy if we offer the money and not mess about, Get it done deals. Pep is after systems that work to players strengths, however they must have a pass in them under pressure most of the time, as it his high risk high reward defending, or they are of no use to him and the team he is building. I go for Dawson as Pullis has worked on him his bad habits will be few and far between, he has room to improve but the basics are there. Van Dyk is the star quality player we need we also saw earlier in the season at the Etihad he is only getting better and better.

My main concern with the likes of Van Dijk and your suggestion of Dawson is that we can all see how good or otherwise they are playing in sides with a defensive set up, what happens then when they're asked to play in a set up where they're more exposed? Will they still cut the mustard?

I think Pep will get it right where others have not, I also want Premier League defenders. As this league as you say sorts out the men from the boys, Williams would have been a good stop gap and similar to Vinny in his skill set. Centre halfs are as rare as top keepers, in the way we want to set up they have to be solid at everything.Even Luiz in the right system is looking that.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

He rewired a 5ft 6 midfielder into a centre half, Puyol was a crash bang wallop centre half turned into a world beater. Players like Dawson & Van Dyk is easy if we offer the money and not mess about, Get it done deals. Pep is after systems that work to players strengths, however they must have a pass in them under pressure most of the time, as it his high risk high reward defending, or they are of no use to him and the team he is building. I go for Dawson as Pullis has worked on him his bad habits will be few and far between, he has room to improve but the basics are there. Van Dyk is the star quality player we need we also saw earlier in the season at the Etihad he is only getting better and better.

My main concern with the likes of Van Dijk and your suggestion of Dawson is that we can all see how good or otherwise they are playing in sides with a defensive set up, what happens then when they're asked to play in a set up where they're more exposed? Will they still cut the mustard?

I think that is extremely good question.
Everyone probably knows that I like player types that are good at their very basic job (defenders who can defend, strikers who score goals, wingers who go past players and so on). Likes of Dawson and Van Dijk are just that when you look at it on the surface. However they both play for counterattack teams. That demands great stamina (defending for 90 minutes is more exhausting than most people realise) and ability to cover your own area well. While both those skills are welcome we are completely different kind of team. We will have majority of posession even against the very best of the world. That means our real weakness are counterattacks and the vast space behind defensive line.

Against popular belief it really isn't necesserily amazing pace or Silvalike passing ability qe should be looking for. However it's absolutely elemental that they have great positioning, spacial awareness and ability to read the game. Those are the abilities we should look for. Of course Kompany is great model for that.

[Foreverinbluedreams]

I can't think of any centrebacks as no matter how good they are there bound to turn to shite if they join us.

Seamus Coleman would be good shout for a full back as would David Alaba from Bayern but I just don't see this calibre of player being available in January.

I think that's an interesting point. Have we signed poor centre halves, or have we somehow made them play poorly?

I'm sure some smartarse will turn up shortly, but can't remember too many complaints when we signed half of them, and boateng for example isn't exactly playing in the conference.

You make a good point. I think personally that we've signed a bunch of center halves that would have been ok next to kompany but can't form a partnership without him. He's a leader and an organizer and we've played several systems that require 2 or 3 defenders to be isolated against counter attacks. To do this successfully you need to be either supremely organized which we are with vinny or super quick which none of them really are.

Our captain is a clever player and one we are going to need to replace somehow.

I think this is pertinent, not only that a partnership couldn't be formed without him but that a partnership wasn't given the time to form without him, as every time he returned from injury he was put straight back in no matter how well the centre backs had performed while he was out. Can't be good for confidence if you know you're getting the hook once a player returns.

[PeterParker]

The thing is that the world is missing top defenders. Why did you think that Chelsea ended up signing Luiz again (beside the obvious money laundering)? There are no Nesta, Cannavaro, Costacurta etc anymore.

The defensive howlers were incredible this year, but I think they will continue to be the same. I think Pep doesn't know how to defend. This is not a critic, It is just the way he is, imho. The defence problem is the last in his mentality because, as he said many times, he wants our defence to help our attack, to pass the ball and play a huge part in our offensive system. Basically, he is asking players that learned all their life to stop attackers to change and help the offensive part. Many are confused about that, but with time (years maybe) will understand. I am prepare to bet that in the next years, we will have more possesion that our opponent in every single game.

As many pointed out above, we need fullbacks, not defenders. At this point, we should sign a back-up defender, because Kompany is gone: Howedes, Fonte, Benatia, etc. There are many. Thiago Silva can be one option, but his legs are gone, sadly. After that, we go and get two solid fullbacks. Young and with pace that are quality. The defensive problem will be solved with that, I am sure.

I do not agree on paying 50 mil for Van Dyke. He is no better than Stones or Otamendi. Similar level. Solve the fullback problem, Pepinho!

[Foreverinbluedreams]

The thing is that the world is missing top defenders. Why did you think that Chelsea ended up signing Luiz again (beside the obvious money laundering)? There are no Nesta, Cannavaro, Costacurta etc anymore.

The defensive howlers were incredible this year, but I think they will continue to be the same. I think Pep doesn't know how to defend. This is not a critic, It is just the way he is, imho. The defence problem is the last in his mentality because, as he said many times, he wants our defence to help our attack, to pass the ball and play a huge part in our offensive system. Basically, he is asking players that learned all their life to stop attackers to change and help the offensive part. Many are confused about that.

As many pointed out above, we need fullbacks, not defenders. At this point, we should sign a back-up defender, because Kompany is gone: Howedes, Fonte, Benatia, etc. There are many. Thiago Silva can be one option, but his legs are gone, sadly. After that, we go and get two solid fullbacks. Young and with pace that are quality. The defensive problem will be solved with that, I am sure.

I do not agree on paying 50 mil for Van Dyke. He is no better than Stones or Otamendi. Similar level. Solve the fullback problem, Pepinho!

I have to take issue with that mate, Pep's teams have had the best defensive record in every league season he's played thus far. I appreciate that he was managing two major clubs but bear in mind in Spain he was competing with Mourinho who's teams are generally stingy.

He does want the defence to help the attack but he also wants the attack to help the defence.

[PeterParker]

The thing is that the world is missing top defenders. Why did you think that Chelsea ended up signing Luiz again (beside the obvious money laundering)? There are no Nesta, Cannavaro, Costacurta etc anymore.

The defensive howlers were incredible this year, but I think they will continue to be the same. I think Pep doesn't know how to defend. This is not a critic, It is just the way he is, imho. The defence problem is the last in his mentality because, as he said many times, he wants our defence to help our attack, to pass the ball and play a huge part in our offensive system. Basically, he is asking players that learned all their life to stop attackers to change and help the offensive part. Many are confused about that.

As many pointed out above, we need fullbacks, not defenders. At this point, we should sign a back-up defender, because Kompany is gone: Howedes, Fonte, Benatia, etc. There are many. Thiago Silva can be one option, but his legs are gone, sadly. After that, we go and get two solid fullbacks. Young and with pace that are quality. The defensive problem will be solved with that, I am sure.

I do not agree on paying 50 mil for Van Dyke. He is no better than Stones or Otamendi. Similar level. Solve the fullback problem, Pepinho!

I have to take issue with that mate, Pep's teams have had the best defensive record in every league season he's played thus far. I appreciate that he was managing two major clubs but bear in mind in Spain he was competing with Mourinho who's teams are generally stingy.

He does want the defence to help the attack but he also wants the attack to help the defence.

Yes, you are absolutely right on that, but as the tv-series said, This Is England.

I always have this discussion with people. England is different, you go at Sunderland who were at some point bottom of the table, you get the game of your life. Kicking, pressure, all things, weather, you name it. They play like there is no tomorrow. Then you go to Osasuna or Granada and you are 3 up in the first 30 minutes.

Add that to the bent decisions that Pep did not have against and you understand how things are different for him. I think he will adapt, but he did not expect to meet people like Anthony Taylor.

[Foreverinbluedreams]

Whilst I do think that the Premier League is more competitive, I do think it's overstated how much more competitive it is than other top European leagues.

I watched Barca being beaten by Alaves earlier in the season and thought this doesn't ring true with what the general perception is in England of them foreign leagues.