VAR

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Re: VAR

Postby Nickyboy » Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:38 pm

Our kid made a good point that maybe him not being the VAR is better. He could be biased towards them this time because of all the shit he got last time re the VVD injury
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Re: VAR

Postby Beefymcfc » Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:13 pm

If the officials give it, VAR doesn’t over- rule. If the Official doesn’t give it, VAR will over-rule.

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Re: VAR

Postby zuricity » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:39 am

Beefymcfc wrote:If the officials give it, VAR doesn’t over- rule. If the Official doesn’t give it, VAR will over-rule.

Welcome DFC.


For both Rags penalties yesterday, the goalie was off the line. VAR decided for the first a retake. For the second why wasn't it retaken again ?
If you are going to be so clinical with the video camera, then it must be consistent for every event it is monitoring - not just until the Rags score.

Oh and stopping in the run up to a penalty should not be allowed. You might just as well take the goalie out from between the sticks. ( wouldn't help Tin tin though :-) )
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Re: VAR

Postby ayrshireblue » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:43 am

zuricity wrote:
Beefymcfc wrote:If the officials give it, VAR doesn’t over- rule. If the Official doesn’t give it, VAR will over-rule.

Welcome DFC.


For both Rags penalties yesterday, the goalie was off the line. VAR decided for the first a retake. For the second why wasn't it retaken again ?
If you are going to be so clinical with the video camera, then it must be consistent for every event it is monitoring - not just until the Rags score.

Oh and stopping in the run up to a penalty should not be allowed. You might just as well take the goalie out from between the sticks. ( wouldn't help Tin tin though :-) )


Keeper moving early is seen as an advantage to him so if the penalty is scored they don't retake it. Similarly, with encroachment if a defender encroaches and the penalty is scored then the penalty is not retaken but if an attacker had encroached and the penalty scored it would be retaken as the penalty taking team had gained an advantage.
Penalty takers are not allowed to stop once the run up has started. The way this is applied is that you can stutter but must keep your momentum going forward. I don't know if you saw the MLS play off game today between Orlando and NYC but Nani actually stopped after the run up had started and the penalty was allowed to stand. Definitely should have been retaken.
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Re: VAR

Postby City64 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:08 pm

Absolutely killing the game and glaringly blindingly obvious it favours certain teams . Nobody talks about football anymore just fucking diabolical VAR .

THE GAME IS DEAD !!!
Not really here

Fuck VAR
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Re: VAR

Postby johnny crossan » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:27 pm

City64 wrote:Absolutely killing the game and glaringly blindingly obvious it favours certain teams . Nobody talks about football anymore just fucking diabolical VAR .

THE GAME IS DEAD !!!
not like you to catastrophise a situation C64 :lol:
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Re: VAR

Postby City64 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:45 pm

johnny crossan wrote:
City64 wrote:Absolutely killing the game and glaringly blindingly obvious it favours certain teams . Nobody talks about football anymore just fucking diabolical VAR .

THE GAME IS DEAD !!!
not like you to catastrophise a situation C64 :lol:

VAR worthy of massive fucking caps locks !!!
Not really here

Fuck VAR
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Re: VAR

Postby zuricity » Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:34 pm

ayrshireblue wrote:
zuricity wrote:
Beefymcfc wrote:If the officials give it, VAR doesn’t over- rule. If the Official doesn’t give it, VAR will over-rule.

Welcome DFC.


For both Rags penalties yesterday, the goalie was off the line. VAR decided for the first a retake. For the second why wasn't it retaken again ?
If you are going to be so clinical with the video camera, then it must be consistent for every event it is monitoring - not just until the Rags score.

Oh and stopping in the run up to a penalty should not be allowed. You might just as well take the goalie out from between the sticks. ( wouldn't help Tin tin though :-) )


Keeper moving early is seen as an advantage to him so if the penalty is scored they don't retake it. Similarly, with encroachment if a defender encroaches and the penalty is scored then the penalty is not retaken but if an attacker had encroached and the penalty scored it would be retaken as the penalty taking team had gained an advantage.
Penalty takers are not allowed to stop once the run up has started. The way this is applied is that you can stutter but must keep your momentum going forward. I don't know if you saw the MLS play off game today between Orlando and NYC but Nani actually stopped after the run up had started and the penalty was allowed to stand. Definitely should have been retaken.



Then the system is broken.
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Re: VAR

Postby ayrshireblue » Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:03 pm

So if the keeper moves early and the penalty is scored it should be retaken in your opinion? The keeper then stays on the line and saves the penalty, did he not then gain an advantage by moving early? Forget who the teams involved are and judge the decisions on logic and merit.
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Re: VAR

Postby carl_feedthegoat » Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:33 pm

VAR has caused more harm than good...I think this is obvious.

If the fans were given a choice of having it or not what would be the % outcome?

Id say 60% against having it and Id be one of the 60%.
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Re: VAR

Postby salford city » Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:40 pm

carl_feedthegoat wrote:VAR has caused more harm than good...I think this is obvious.

If the fans were given a choice of having it or not what would be the % outcome?

Id say 60% against having it and Id be one of the 60%.


Until we get to the same situation as the use in rugby league it should be scrapped. It is solely being used to manipulate desired outcomes and the fact that we are not being allowed to be party to the conversations between the ref and those in the VAR room tells you all you need to know. If you've nothing to hide, mike the fuckers up - no, thought not
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Re: VAR

Postby carl_feedthegoat » Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:50 pm

salford city wrote:
carl_feedthegoat wrote:VAR has caused more harm than good...I think this is obvious.

If the fans were given a choice of having it or not what would be the % outcome?

Id say 60% against having it and Id be one of the 60%.


Until we get to the same situation as the use in rugby league it should be scrapped. It is solely being used to manipulate desired outcomes and the fact that we are not being allowed to be party to the conversations between the ref and those in the VAR room tells you all you need to know. If you've nothing to hide, mike the fuckers up - no, thought not


Exactly......there is no justification whatsoever that we do not get to hear the refs decisions like we do in Rugby.

In fact , by not doing so , they get rightly accused of cheating.
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Re: VAR

Postby nottsblue » Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:50 pm

salford city wrote:
carl_feedthegoat wrote:VAR has caused more harm than good...I think this is obvious.

If the fans were given a choice of having it or not what would be the % outcome?

Id say 60% against having it and Id be one of the 60%.


Until we get to the same situation as the use in rugby league it should be scrapped. It is solely being used to manipulate desired outcomes and the fact that we are not being allowed to be party to the conversations between the ref and those in the VAR room tells you all you need to know. If you've nothing to hide, mike the fuckers up - no, thought not

Been banging this drum since day one.

If we are not allowed to hear the dialogue and discussion between the VAR and match officials then why is that? Other sports have embraced this wholeheartedly and their Video solutions seriously trump footballs
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Re: VAR

Postby zuricity » Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:22 pm

ayrshireblue wrote:So if the keeper moves early and the penalty is scored it should be retaken in your opinion? The keeper then stays on the line and saves the penalty, did he not then gain an advantage by moving early? Forget who the teams involved are and judge the decisions on logic and merit.


But you aren't applying logic and merit are you ?

The Keeper is moving based on the run up and has the right to move when ever he likes after the whistle is blown - he can jump up and down on the line as long as he wants to ( A bit pointless though) - as long as he is behind or on the line..

He sees someone run up and thinks it will be kicked , but the forward slows his run up. ( Goalie has no chance of predicting if this will happen). He thinks it will be kicked. So he speculates and moves the way he thinks the ball will be kicked , he doesn't have minutes to react. If he waits until after the ball is kicked it is most unlikely that he will save it. even if he dives the right way.

He has to stop the ball in front of the line and not behind the line. where else is he going to dive ?

Apparently he moved twice before the kick was taken. Why should the striker get an unfair advantage ? Look at the penalties that get given these days . most of them are laughable. Vardy throwing himself to the floor against City , Not even running on goal and ball not under control . the same with maddison slapping his own legs together and going down. Very dubious hand / shoulder / decisions and then it's ok for the the penalty taker to break his run up to the ball. ? Come on , it's pathetic these days.
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Re: VAR

Postby ayrshireblue » Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:18 pm

zuricity wrote:
ayrshireblue wrote:So if the keeper moves early and the penalty is scored it should be retaken in your opinion? The keeper then stays on the line and saves the penalty, did he not then gain an advantage by moving early? Forget who the teams involved are and judge the decisions on logic and merit.


But you aren't applying logic and merit are you ?

The Keeper is moving based on the run up and has the right to move when ever he likes after the whistle is blown - he can jump up and down on the line as long as he wants to ( A bit pointless though) - as long as he is behind or on the line..

He sees someone run up and thinks it will be kicked , but the forward slows his run up. ( Goalie has no chance of predicting if this will happen). He thinks it will be kicked. So he speculates and moves the way he thinks the ball will be kicked , he doesn't have minutes to react. If he waits until after the ball is kicked it is most unlikely that he will save it. even if he dives the right way.

He has to stop the ball in front of the line and not behind the line. where else is he going to dive ?

Apparently he moved twice before the kick was taken. Why should the striker get an unfair advantage ? Look at the penalties that get given these days . most of them are laughable. Vardy throwing himself to the floor against City , Not even running on goal and ball not under control . the same with maddison slapping his own legs together and going down. Very dubious hand / shoulder / decisions and then it's ok for the the penalty taker to break his run up to the ball. ? Come on , it's pathetic these days.


The keeper can, as you say, move along the line or jump up or down but cannot move his back foot off the line before the ball is struck. This is the law, whether you agree or disagree with it the ref has applied the law correctly.
The keeper does not have to stop the ball in front of the line only stop the whole ball crossing the whole line.
The penalty taker can slow or speed up his run as long as he does not actually stop dead, the Orlando penalty I referred to in my original post Nani stopped and then started moving again. This is very rare for penalty takers to do, most stop the front leg but still carry momentum forward.
The way penalties are awarded now is more favourable to attackers who get in front of defenders but the defenders should all know this by now and make sure that they don't let this happen. Against Leicester, Walker managed to play Vardy onside but still got caught on the wrong side and gave Vardy the easy decision of going down. Despite Walker being caught out like this we then gave away the same penalty another twice in that game. We have very few players go to ground when they are challenged, Aguero will always stay on his feet, Silva was the same however Mahrez, Bernardo and to a lesser extent Sterling all seem to go to ground easy but do it in such a way that it looks obvious that they have done it themselves rather than by being fouled.
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Re: VAR

Postby zuricity » Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:21 pm

he can't encroach -, over the line until the ball is hit . he can dick around behind the line all he wants .

How is stop dead measured , nano seconds , tenths , ir seconds ? Purely subjective .

VAR is objective and the refs are not.
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Re: VAR

Postby ayrshireblue » Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:32 pm

zuricity wrote:he can't encroach -, over the line until the ball is hit . he can dick around behind the line all he wants .

How is stop dead measured , nano seconds , tenths , ir seconds ? Purely subjective .

VAR is objective and the refs are not.

You're right about the stopping, it's so hard to judge when a slow movement becomes a momentary pause. VAR should be objective but it isn't being used just for this, eg. Jesus handball on Saturday was only seen from one angle so is impossible to decide if the ball definitively hit his arm or stopped short.
To sum up VAR is being used to ensure the Premier League gets the match outcomes that they want.
As someone said earlier we need to hear the full conversation with the VAR officials and match officials as they do in rugby. Tennis as well is obvious what they are looking for and is fully transparent. Football is corrupt. Has been for years and will be for many more.
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Re: VAR

Postby zuricity » Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:08 pm

The controllers of the cameras only decided to show it from one angle , which beggars belief as we know there are more that enough cameras recording the game . Pathetic really ,, glad i dont have to pay to watch .
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Re: VAR

Postby aaron bond » Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:46 am

carl_feedthegoat wrote:
salford city wrote:
carl_feedthegoat wrote:VAR has caused more harm than good...I think this is obvious.

If the fans were given a choice of having it or not what would be the % outcome?

Id say 60% against having it and Id be one of the 60%.


Until we get to the same situation as the use in rugby league it should be scrapped. It is solely being used to manipulate desired outcomes and the fact that we are not being allowed to be party to the conversations between the ref and those in the VAR room tells you all you need to know. If you've nothing to hide, mike the fuckers up - no, thought not


Exactly......there is no justification whatsoever that we do not get to hear the refs decisions like we do in Rugby.

In fact , by not doing so , they get rightly accused of cheating.


It would go such a long way to helping fans understand why the officials make the decisions they do if their microphones were switched on for the public.

Even if you disagree with the decision, at least you’d have a better understanding of why it was made.

Other sports have embraced this. Football is long behind in this regard.
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Re: VAR

Postby salford city » Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:51 am

aaron bond wrote:
carl_feedthegoat wrote:
salford city wrote:
carl_feedthegoat wrote:VAR has caused more harm than good...I think this is obvious.

If the fans were given a choice of having it or not what would be the % outcome?

Id say 60% against having it and Id be one of the 60%.


Until we get to the same situation as the use in rugby league it should be scrapped. It is solely being used to manipulate desired outcomes and the fact that we are not being allowed to be party to the conversations between the ref and those in the VAR room tells you all you need to know. If you've nothing to hide, mike the fuckers up - no, thought not


Exactly......there is no justification whatsoever that we do not get to hear the refs decisions like we do in Rugby.

In fact , by not doing so , they get rightly accused of cheating.


It would go such a long way to helping fans understand why the officials make the decisions they do if their microphones were switched on for the public.

Even if you disagree with the decision, at least you’d have a better understanding of why it was made.

Other sports have embraced this. Football is long behind in this regard.


We are long behind for a reason and it is not for the lack of technology. The fact that only the picture that proves the decisiin is shown speaks volumes. The powers that be don't want the dark arts behind the scenes becoming public and as long as we are not privvy to the conversations, that can only be because it is rigged? Blatantly corrupt - results however thry choosr
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