POSITIVELY CITY

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Re: POSITIVELY CITY

Postby Douglas Higginbottom » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:38 am

Whoever this john68 is he is on a roll. I do hope all these typical city fans take a breather and give him time for a rest on this one.He needs his rest guys:)

Just a thought though but I wonder how many other clubs think of themelves in the typical way. e.g typical Wolves , we can beat the top teams but lose to the rubbish and just when we should be proving oyrselves and staying in the top flight we fall over. Maybe WHU or WBA or maybe the list is endless.
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Re: POSITIVELY CITY

Postby Patrick » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:26 am

From today's telegraph...


Born miserable – some people genetically programmed to be negative
Some people cannot help being pessimistic, suggests a new study that found the amount of a chemical in the brain affects how we view the world.
By Richard Alleyne, Science Correspondent 9:00PM GMT 07 Feb 2011
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Researchers discovered that levels of a molecule called neuropeptide Y (NPY) directly relates to whether we have a "glass half empty" or "glass half full" attitude towards life.
Those with lower levels of the substance are much more negative and find it more difficult to deal with stressful situations.
They are also more susceptible to depression.
The team at University of Michigan believe the amount of NPY in the brain is genetically programmed and hope the discovery could lead to early diagnosis of and prevention of psychiatric illness.
Using functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI), the scientists scanned the brain activity of a number of volunteers as they viewed neutral words (such as "material") negatively charged words (like "murderer"), and positively charge words (like "hopeful").
In response to negative words, subjects with low levels of NPY showed strong activation in the prefrontal cortex, which is involved with processing emotion, while subjects with high NPY demonstrated a much smaller response.
In a second test, healthy subjects reported their emotional experiences during a stressful challenge.
Saline solution was injected into the jaw muscle, which produces moderate pain for 20 minutes, but no lasting harm.
The level of pain was adjusted for each person until it was, for them, a four on a scale of one to 10.
These subjects rated the positivity or negativity of their feelings both before and after the pain challenge.
Those with low NPY were more negative both before and after the pain – meaning they were more emotionally affected while anticipating the pain and while reflecting on their experience immediately afterward.
Lastly, scientists compared NPY levels with major depressive disorders to see if there was an association between the condition and low expression of NPY.
Subjects with low-expression of NPY were more likely to suffer depression, it was found.
Dr Brian Mickey, a psychiatrist and lead author, said: "We hope they can guide us toward assessing an individual's risk for developing depression and anxiety."
The findings are published in the Archives of General Psychiatry.
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Re: POSITIVELY CITY

Postby brite blu sky » Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:00 am

Patrick wrote:From today's telegraph...

Born miserable – some people genetically programmed to be negative
Some people cannot help being pessimistic, suggests a new study that found the amount of a chemical in the brain affects how we view the world.


I rekon my old man suffers from this.. if not he has been doing a Nooly style pretense of it for a very long time. Anyways the point is having first hand experience of this I can add that despite having a pessimistic outlook, which some cite as a defence mechanism to lessen the blow of disappointment, the disappointment appears the same when it comes... with all the 'I knew this was going to happen' bollox, swiftly then moving on to moan about the next phase of dark oblivion.
So in essence the defence mechanism doesn't really work. I came to the conclusion growing up that there was simply no advantage to be gained by taking the pessimistic angle. That isn't to say not to consider how things might go wrong, but basically not dwelling on it, especially when as john68 points out up there^ as we are talking about the future, no-one knows what is around the corner. Assuming it is going to be gloom sets you up to be cautious and imo miss a whole load of opportunities. Who would invite a sour faced grump to a party?
Maybe it is genetic, maybe it is learned, maybe its genetic and some learn to make it worse while some deal with it, either way there is no advantage gained by negative thinking... and that's even when trying to take a positive view of it!

In fact i would challenge anyone who believes their pessimism to have healthy aspects to explain it.
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Re: POSITIVELY CITY

Postby Ted Hughes » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:02 pm

brite blu sky wrote:
Patrick wrote:From today's telegraph...

Born miserable – some people genetically programmed to be negative
Some people cannot help being pessimistic, suggests a new study that found the amount of a chemical in the brain affects how we view the world.


I rekon my old man suffers from this.. if not he has been doing a Nooly style pretense of it for a very long time. Anyways the point is having first hand experience of this I can add that despite having a pessimistic outlook, which some cite as a defence mechanism to lessen the blow of disappointment, the disappointment appears the same when it comes... with all the 'I knew this was going to happen' bollox, swiftly then moving on to moan about the next phase of dark oblivion.
So in essence the defence mechanism doesn't really work. I came to the conclusion growing up that there was simply no advantage to be gained by taking the pessimistic angle. That isn't to say not to consider how things might go wrong, but basically not dwelling on it, especially when as john68 points out up there^ as we are talking about the future, no-one knows what is around the corner. Assuming it is going to be gloom sets you up to be cautious and imo miss a whole load of opportunities. Who would invite a sour faced grump to a party?
Maybe it is genetic, maybe it is learned, maybe its genetic and some learn to make it worse while some deal with it, either way there is no advantage gained by negative thinking... and that's even when trying to take a positive view of it!

In fact i would challenge anyone who believes their pessimism to have healthy aspects to explain it.


Imo there's a difference between thinking everything is about to go wrong & there's nothing you can do about it as opposed to thinking some things that needn't have been a problem, could go wrong because, by your actions, you're invitng it. The second is what represents 'typical City' imo & so far we're still at it.

I recon if you asked most City fans whether we CAN beat Utd on Sat, most will say yes. The note of pessimism will be whether the team & manager have the same belief. When that changes & our team goes to difficult away grounds expecting to win 'typical City' will disappear.
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Some take the bible for what it's worth.. when they say that the rags shall inherit the Earth...
Well I heard that the Sheikh... bought Carlos Tevez this week...& you fuckers aint gettin' nothin..
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Re: POSITIVELY CITY

Postby Chinners » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:58 pm

john68 wrote:If there is one thing that has really annoyed me since I 1st registered on here, it's the attitude and wrong belief of so many City fans that we "always screw up". it is abject nonsense and it is just not true. Whether it's the media reportage or the constant taunting of the rags, I don't know but having spent so many years defending our club's record against fans of other clubs, it pisses me off that I seem to have to defend City's record against our own supporters.

It was funny for a short time and gave birth to our self deprecating sense of humour but more and more, it seems to have become ingrained in many City fans, as some sort of (false) reality.

Frannie Lee's "Cups for Cock ups" was meant as tongue in cheek. "Typical City" lends itself much to the rags and the media and since when did we have to allow those two areas of shite to dictate how we think about our club and our heritage?

In the recent past, it seems we were happy to allow this "City are shit" definition as a positive factor to show how long suffering, brave and loyal we were in the face of failure but we don't need to think like this anymore.

Thoughts please


Spot on ..... well, it will be once we've actually won something again anyway
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Re: POSITIVELY CITY

Postby john68 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:14 pm

Thanks Paddy Mate...but why are all the sufferers drawn to City?
Maybe we should create some new chants and songs for them.

"Ciiiiteeeee, Ciiiiiiiteeeee....We have the players and if we don't fuck up, which we probably will...team in all the Land and all the World"
"We are City, We are City...Sometime but not always super City...and not when we're playing shit teams...from Maine Road"
"So now you're gonna believe us...We could but probably won't....win the League"
"Wemberleee...Wemberleee....We're the famous Man City and we'll probably fuck up again against some really shit team, as usual...and we'll probably sit at home watching two other teams...when they go to Wemberlee"

Maybe Beeks could do a mix to help you out.
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Re: POSITIVELY CITY

Postby Chinners » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:23 pm

"Wemberleee...Wemberleee....We're the famous Man City and we'll probably fuck up again against some really shit team, as usual...and we'll probably sit at home watching two other teams...when they go to Wemberlee"


Thats quite catchy actually .... and true
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Re: POSITIVELY CITY

Postby brite blu sky » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:59 pm

Ted Hughes wrote:
brite blu sky wrote:
Patrick wrote:From today's telegraph...

Born miserable – some people genetically programmed to be negative
Some people cannot help being pessimistic, suggests a new study that found the amount of a chemical in the brain affects how we view the world.


I rekon my old man suffers from this.. if not he has been doing a Nooly style pretense of it for a very long time. Anyways the point is having first hand experience of this I can add that despite having a pessimistic outlook, which some cite as a defence mechanism to lessen the blow of disappointment, the disappointment appears the same when it comes... with all the 'I knew this was going to happen' bollox, swiftly then moving on to moan about the next phase of dark oblivion.
So in essence the defence mechanism doesn't really work. I came to the conclusion growing up that there was simply no advantage to be gained by taking the pessimistic angle. That isn't to say not to consider how things might go wrong, but basically not dwelling on it, especially when as john68 points out up there^ as we are talking about the future, no-one knows what is around the corner. Assuming it is going to be gloom sets you up to be cautious and imo miss a whole load of opportunities. Who would invite a sour faced grump to a party?
Maybe it is genetic, maybe it is learned, maybe its genetic and some learn to make it worse while some deal with it, either way there is no advantage gained by negative thinking... and that's even when trying to take a positive view of it!

In fact i would challenge anyone who believes their pessimism to have healthy aspects to explain it.


Imo there's a difference between thinking everything is about to go wrong & there's nothing you can do about it as opposed to thinking some things that needn't have been a problem, could go wrong because, by your actions, you're invitng it. The second is what represents 'typical City' imo & so far we're still at it.

I recon if you asked most City fans whether we CAN beat Utd on Sat, most will say yes. The note of pessimism will be whether the team & manager have the same belief. When that changes & our team goes to difficult away grounds expecting to win 'typical City' will disappear.


That's a fine line as they say.. and goes into the realms of calculated gambles.. like going gung-ho in all out attack.

As for the team I'd be pretty sure they have a good sense they can beat the rags.. can as in confident they can match them in all areas and better them on the day. That confidence will be latent so to speak until they do manage to actually outplay them via tactics or spirit or guile.

You can know damn well that you could sail single handed around the world, have all the equip, know how the lot, but the possibility of something outside control always sets a limit on what level that knowing confidence can go to.

Good experienced teams know their own weaknesses and compensate as much as they can.. but it just wouldn't be football if they didn't get caught out now and again.
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Re: POSITIVELY CITY

Postby brite blu sky » Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:08 pm

Chinners wrote:
"Wemberleee...Wemberleee....We're the famous Man City and we'll probably fuck up again against some really shit team, as usual...and we'll probably sit at home watching two other teams...when they go to Wemberlee"


Thats quite catchy actually .... and true


it is. really flows along..

john you haven't thought about the idea of leaving a legacy and sprucing up some old hymns for the church have you.. by any chance?
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Re: POSITIVELY CITY

Postby daved » Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:43 pm

Good Article.

. Some middle ground would be preferable as far as City fans are concerned
Date: 8th February 2011 at 4:32 pm | Written by David Mooney
image © Action Images I sometimes wonder if Manchester City fans suffer from bipolar disorder. It could be a condition that comes on after a few years of supporting a club that shoots itself in the foot at any given opportunity, or it could be something innate that means subconsciously we all tend to lean towards the Citizens. There isn’t really much room for a grey area: Championship challenge or relegation. Brilliant signing or total flop. “I love you” or “**** off”. There doesn’t seem to be any middle ground.

After Wednesday night’s 2-2 draw at Birmingham, I would hazard a guess that The Samaritans were busier than usual, as City did what they do best and struggled against a hard working side at the wrong end of the league. To be fair to Birmingham, though, they played well and deserved their point. Even if the penalty for the equaliser was dodgier than a pub-bought DVD being played on the latest laptop bought on a second-hand market on the cheap. From a guy known locally as ‘Dodgy Terry’.

But, off the back of a game where City were twice leading and should have seen out the final whistle in a winning position yet didn’t, you would have thought that the club had been doomed to a season of mid-table mediocrity or, worse, confirmed as relegated. In no particular order, I heard or read comments from a large number of fans along the lines of: “Hart should be dropped!”, “That’s it, the season’s over!”, “Dzeko is no better than Jo!”, “Adebayor scored, why did we let him go?!”, “We need to get Mourinho in to save us!”, “Vieira should be taken out the back and shot!”…

Roll that forward to the evening of a routine home victory against West Brom and, with the help of a Manchester United defeat and an unlikely Arsenal draw, suddenly the title challenge is back on (conditional, of course, on City winning the upcoming Manchester derby, which they will naturally do now they’re world beaters again – they’re either awful or awesome, remember).

Though, in fairness to those blues, they do have a bit of a point – the defence that is supposed to be leakier than a Julian Assange whistle-blowing website was the only defence in the league that kept a clean sheet last Saturday. And, by virtue of the fact City have played one more game than Chelsea, it’s also the best defence in the league. Still.


I suppose it’s easy to jump to irrational conclusions on the back of a game that was within City’s control and they have let slip away. I’ll be honest, I was quite frustrated on Wednesday evening and I don’t think it would have been right not to be. But we still need to calm down before shouting our mouths off.

Joe Hart’s had a blip in form recently, but has shown his ability for most of the season and won City many points. The season isn’t over because there’s also the FA Cup and Europa League to play for (and were City ever really to be considered title challengers unless they’re still in with a shout in, say, April?). Dzeko is gradually getting better, Adebayor and Mancini clearly don’t see eye to eye, changing the manager now is a ridiculous suggestion and Vieira’s knowledge and experience will be invaluable at the end of the season, if not on the pitch.

Though I do think someone might have shot at Vieira and hit the wrong man on Wednesday evening, given what happened to Phillips in the box. Even strippers working on stag nights wouldn’t have gone down that easily. Vieira’s foul was, at best, obstruction, for which an indirect free kick should be given and not a penalty. Unless you believe Football Manager, but that’s wrong and it winds me up when it gives penalties against me for that.

Anyway… A penalty was given, a penalty was scored and a draw was the result. It felt like (and, in truth, was) two points dropped because City had twice led. But United and Tottenham only managed a draw at St Andrews and Chelsea lost there, too, so it’s clearly not an easy game in Birmingham. And the defeat at Molineux doesn’t look so bad now that United and Chelsea have lost there as well, though I suppose that makes it more of a missed opportunity.

But, despite that negative feeling leading up the West Brom fixture, City did the unlikely – they did what they were supposed to do. They won the game and played well. Instead of giving several fans in the stadium premature coronaries, a skill they’ve perfected down the years with stunts of sheer lunacy, usually in the last minute, as well. But there was none of that on Saturday.


The problem is, with an increased level of performance and a big investment comes a higher level of expectancy. Fans, perhaps wrongly, go to matches against the teams towards the bottom of the table and expect an easy game and a big win; a sentiment summed up by Angry Lady, sitting behind me at Eastlands, who shouted towards a West Brom defender “get out of his way!” as Zabaleta tried to get a cross in. Teams won’t roll over and die, defences will try and stop attacks and Angry Lady will always be shouting that Tevez should “earn his wages” (that one came when he spooned a shot over the bar, despite already having a hat-trick).

It doesn’t make sense to get agitated when City haven’t scored inside the first twenty minutes. I don’t like using clichés, but there are no easy games and no team is in this division by accident (I lied, I love using clichés). What counts is that City at least win the game, without a good performance, if necessary. Though a good display is always preferable.

On the other side of the fence, one win doesn’t make the season. True, results went in City’s favour last weekend and they were the only side in the top four to have won. And they are only five points off the top (which would become just two, should they win their next game). But they have played a game more – and I think we, as fans, ignored that there were games in hand to play when we were sitting top of the league and talking of the title. Optimism got the better of us.


We should be optimistic, though, don’t get me wrong. City are better than last season. And, in my opinion, will finish higher than last season. But the idea that this would be a bad season for not winning the title or being out of the ‘title race’ in February is ludicrous and is perhaps symptomatic of the “I-Want-It-Now” McSociety we’re living in. I’m sure the title challenge will come in future, but fourth was a priority at the start of the season. And it’s not unreasonable to reassess to third (possibly even second) given the current standings.

Results could go City’s way and they could be within reach of the title with five or six games to play. But nobody should be too upset if that isn’t what happens. We shouldn’t be thinking of dropping ten players, changing the manager, or shooting Patrick Vieira if we don’t win the league. Maybe if we don’t finish in the top four.

We’re in a marathon, not a sprint (cliché alert). One result doesn’t define the season and the collective mood swings of the large proportions of the fans aren’t necessary. We’re not fighting relegation; we’re not sitting mid-table with nothing to play for; we’re still in two cup competitions as well… So let’s sit back, relax and enjoy the (good) ride, for once.

Anyway, it’s derby day on Saturday… Lithium on standby.
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Re: POSITIVELY CITY

Postby Goataldo » Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:46 pm

I'm sure the first trophy we win will cure what ails me.

THis is how bad I've got it though:

Manchester City Council have just announced that they're axing loads of youth clubs, libraries, swimming pools, and all but one of their public toilets (thought it might be Old Trafford til I remembered that would be Trafford Borough Council?)

Now obviously, that's bad for the community, not least, it's practically forcing disaffected youth onto the streets and depriving families of much needed public services (and I bet they still arrest people for pissing in the street!).

BUT - even though I'm aware of the story and its regular broadcasting on today's news, when the newsgoblin starts to read, and starts with 'Manchester City Council...' - I nearly cack myself at the words 'Manchester City' being on the regular news at the start of an article, thinking something terrible has happened, like 'Manchester City owner Sheikh Mansour has had one of the most bizarre change of hearts in sporting history, and decided to plough all of his finance into stamp-collecting, instead of overseeing what surely would have been the world dominating success of Manchester's only football club.....' or summat.
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Re: POSITIVELY CITY

Postby john68 » Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:31 am

uwes_skyblue_duvet wrote:I'm sure the first trophy we win will cure what ails me.

THis is how bad I've got it though:

Manchester City Council have just announced that they're axing loads of youth clubs, libraries, swimming pools, and all but one of their public toilets (thought it might be Old Trafford til I remembered that would be Trafford Borough Council?)

Now obviously, that's bad for the community, not least, it's practically forcing disaffected youth onto the streets and depriving families of much needed public services (and I bet they still arrest people for pissing in the street!).

BUT - even though I'm aware of the story and its regular broadcasting on today's news, when the newsgoblin starts to read, and starts with 'Manchester City Council...' - I nearly cack myself at the words 'Manchester City' being on the regular news at the start of an article, thinking something terrible has happened, like 'Manchester City owner Sheikh Mansour has had one of the most bizarre change of hearts in sporting history, and decided to plough all of his finance into stamp-collecting, instead of overseeing what surely would have been the world dominating success of Manchester's only football club.....' or summat.



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Re: POSITIVELY CITY

Postby Patrick » Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:02 am

We already have a song John, one of my all time favourites......

We lost last week and we lost today
We never win at home and we never win away
We dont give a fuck cos were all pissed up
MCFC OK

Always cheers me up after a typical city day that!
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Re: POSITIVELY CITY

Postby Beeks » Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:28 am

Patrick wrote:We already have a song John, one of my all time favourites......

We lost last week and we lost today
We never win at home and we never win away
We dont give a fuck cos were all pissed up
MCFC OK

Always cheers me up after a typical city day that!


Definitely one of my faves Patrick
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Re: POSITIVELY CITY

Postby Crossie » Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:01 am

This might have already been said further back in the thread. If you look at any club over the last 34 years, they have all fucked up just as much as we have. Only 3 domestic cups/league on offer, often spread out through just 4 or 5 clubs with an occasional surprise.

Take for example Notts Forrest, dominating for europe and england for a few years, then disappear into nothingness.

Or even Spurs, they can beat the best one day, then crumble at home the next.

The media is to blame for alot of it, they love to create character and pigeon hole teams/people to gain identity and keep people interested.
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Re: POSITIVELY CITY

Postby crossan » Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:03 pm

Typical City has been with us for decades and we titter at it and shake our heads but then we are City fans born and bred arn't we?
I believe that success in trophy winning is not to far away whether it be this season or next....we are in with a chance and that is something that has not been a reality since the 1981 FA Cup final..............patience,patience.
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Re: POSITIVELY CITY

Postby Goataldo » Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:21 pm

Beeks wrote:
Patrick wrote:We already have a song John, one of my all time favourites......

We lost last week and we lost today
We never win at home and we never win away
We dont give a fuck cos were all pissed up
MCFC OK

Always cheers me up after a typical city day that!


Definitely one of my faves Patrick


Then there's 'Wemberleee, Wemberleee, It's a shitty place in London that we're never gonna see'. That sort of gallows humour is all that can raise a smile after getting dumped out of the cup.

Won't be singing that this year obviously. Quite the ray of sunshine really aren't I?
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