The Yaya Toure 'Munich' song

[saulman]

Big well done to Colin Bell for bringing more attention to the situation. Just what we needed mate!
Ah well, at least you've probably lined your pockets with a few quid for doing the interview.

Seriously?

[Im_Spartacus]

With all due respect to Colin Bell, he knows the survivors personally, and he most likely knew or at least knew of some of the less fortunate. I respect that he feels "Munich" should not be sung in a terrace chant, because to him I can see how he would find it offensive - as no doubt the thought crossed his mind as he was on an international flight with his club/country team-mates.

My view differs though, and ultimately it is about a person's perspective of United, and what I see during my lifetime, is the way that the rags have shamelessly and tirelessly exploited the death of these people to maximise media exposure, to ensure a continuous stream of sympathy from the wider world in general - plus the very people who shout the loudest about City fans using the term know absoutely nothing about the facts of the event and aftermath. They seem to believe that having had a tragedy 50 years ago elevates them to a level where they deserve respect and admiration because of this fact alone.

This is the very point I made on Tuesday to a group of rags who were discussing City fans in the pub. I never tried to justify the use of the term, yet the bile I got hurled back at me with their twisted and contorted faces reinforced my point exactly. The very suggestion that the club try to cash in is greeted with abuse - despite the clear evidence of "Munich day sponsored by AIG" incident amongst others.

To most United fans, and in fact to most living people, the actual events of Munich are as relevant to them as a fairy story, and their understanding of it is limited to the fact that some very good people died. The total and utter refusal to admit that without Munich, Manchester United would not be the global force they are today is the biggest show of disrespect to the dead - and it is the United fans who commit that sin by not accepting the Munich disaster defined their club.

If Munich defined their club, I therefore see no issue with defining a United fan as a Munich - it is not disrespectful to the dead in any way shape of form, it is disrespectful to their fans, and that is the entire point.

[simon12]

With all due respect to Colin Bell, he knows the survivors personally, and he most likely knew or at least knew of some of the less fortunate. I respect that he feels "Munich" should not be sung in a terrace chant, because to him I can see how he would find it offensive - as no doubt the thought crossed his mind as he was on an international flight with his club/country team-mates.

My view differs though, and ultimately it is about a person's perspective of United, and what I see during my lifetime, is the way that the rags have shamelessly and tirelessly exploited the death of these people to maximise media exposure, to ensure a continuous stream of sympathy from the wider world in general - plus the very people who shout the loudest about City fans using the term know absoutely nothing about the facts of the event and aftermath. They seem to believe that having had a tragedy 50 years ago elevates them to a level where they deserve respect and admiration because of this fact alone.

This is the very point I made on Tuesday to a group of rags who were discussing City fans in the pub. I never tried to justify the use of the term, yet the bile I got hurled back at me with their twisted and contorted faces reinforced my point exactly. The very suggestion that the club try to cash in is greeted with abuse - despite the clear evidence of "Munich day sponsored by AIG" incident amongst others.

To most United fans, and in fact to most living people, the actual events of Munich are as relevant to them as a fairy story, and their understanding of it is limited to the fact that some very good people died. The total and utter refusal to admit that without Munich, Manchester United would not be the global force they are today is the biggest show of disrespect to the dead - and it is the United fans who commit that sin by not accepting the Munich disaster defined their club.


I`m Spartacus.


No I`m Spartacus


Well said mate.

If Munich defined their club, I therefore see no issue with defining a United fan as a Munich - it is not disrespectful to the dead in any way shape of form, it is disrespectful to their fans, and that is the entire point.

[Mase]

Big well done to Colin Bell for bringing more attention to the situation. Just what we needed mate!
Ah well, at least you've probably lined your pockets with a few quid for doing the interview.

Seriously?

Yes, seriously!
It's the fuckin minority that sing it, or do aeroplane motions. You’re going to have that everywhere, rags with their Hillsborough song, rags again and several other clubs joking about the Leeds Istanbul incident. That’s never going to change whether some ‘legend’ goes to the papers or not.
It’s no coincidence that all this has ‘come to light’ now. I’ve been a season ticket holder since I was about eight years old and have been every season since. It’s been happening since then and I’m sure in another 20 years it’ll still be happening. Nothing will change.

[twosips]

But it isn't the minority anymore though is it?

There's several thousand who sing it. It's very very audible.

[Im_Spartacus]

But it isn't the minority anymore though is it

There's several thousand who sing it. It's very very audible.

It never was the minority away from home, and is clearly audible at home games too. Blackburn was no different to any other away game, and anyone who attends games would probably realise that what the press are getting in a tizz about is nothing new, and nothing out of the ordinary

Next you and the rest of the PC lot will have us stopping singing "Hark now hear" because it promotes hooliganism?

[twosips]

No? Cos there's nowt wrong with that. Where there is something wrong with constantly referencing a tragedy just to piss people off.

'PC lot' - yeah, i'm a right stick in the mud me. I don't think its funny to use people dying as a reason to make digs at people. I'm SO boring and pc.

[Mase]

No? Cos there's nowt wrong with that. Where there is something wrong with constantly referencing a tragedy just to piss people off.

Like the rags do themselves?

[twosips]

And you want to go down to their level?!

[Im_Spartacus]

No? Cos there's nowt wrong with that. Where there is something wrong with constantly referencing a tragedy just to piss people off.

'PC lot' - yeah, i'm a right stick in the mud me. I don't think its funny to use people dying as a reason to make digs at people. I'm SO boring and pc.

You have clearly got your view, and others have got theirs.

I disagree with your viewpoint, but can understand why you hold it and respect it. If you choose not to even attempt to understand or respect the rationale for the other side of the discussion, then its pointless keep bleating repeatedly the same thing you have for the last 11 pages.

You have been told many times in this thread why certain people choose to use the term, relating to the event that was the birth of a corporation of greed, in which the general sympathy for a long since past event has been milked relentlessly at every opportunity. Yet you choose to take the viewpoint that we are "using people dying as a reason to make digs at people", despite being told countless times that isnt the case.

If you choose to ignore other people's views, move on, we all know and respect yours.

[ant london]

you choose to take the viewpoint that we are "using people dying as a reason to make digs at people", despite being told countless times that isnt the case.

If you choose to ignore other people's views, move on, we all know and respect yours.

Precisely.....In all honestly Twosips you on your pious high horse over the last 11 pages has actually made me more determined that there is no need whatsoever to abandon the term.

We are all quite aware of your views, I have no issue with you feeling as you do but, trust me, your disapproval matters not at all to me (and I'm quite sure the same applies to many many others).

[BlueMoonAwoken]

With all due respect to Colin Bell, he knows the survivors personally, and he most likely knew or at least knew of some of the less fortunate. I respect that he feels "Munich" should not be sung in a terrace chant, because to him I can see how he would find it offensive - as no doubt the thought crossed his mind as he was on an international flight with his club/country team-mates.

My view differs though, and ultimately it is about a person's perspective of United, and what I see during my lifetime, is the way that the rags have shamelessly and tirelessly exploited the death of these people to maximise media exposure, to ensure a continuous stream of sympathy from the wider world in general - plus the very people who shout the loudest about City fans using the term know absoutely nothing about the facts of the event and aftermath. They seem to believe that having had a tragedy 50 years ago elevates them to a level where they deserve respect and admiration because of this fact alone.

This is the very point I made on Tuesday to a group of rags who were discussing City fans in the pub. I never tried to justify the use of the term, yet the bile I got hurled back at me with their twisted and contorted faces reinforced my point exactly. The very suggestion that the club try to cash in is greeted with abuse - despite the clear evidence of "Munich day sponsored by AIG" incident amongst others.

To most United fans, and in fact to most living people, the actual events of Munich are as relevant to them as a fairy story, and their understanding of it is limited to the fact that some very good people died. The total and utter refusal to admit that without Munich, Manchester United would not be the global force they are today is the biggest show of disrespect to the dead - and it is the United fans who commit that sin by not accepting the Munich disaster defined their club.

If Munich defined their club, I therefore see no issue with defining a United fan as a Munich - it is not disrespectful to the dead in any way shape of form, it is disrespectful to their fans, and that is the entire point.

Well said, i read about 4 pages of this thread and thought why has no one said this already, When i join in songs and use the term munich im not thinking how much hatred i have for the people that died im using as a term to show how much hate i have for a club that profits from its own players and fans dying.

[1950]

It's all well & good reasoning with the milking of the crash, but why use the word 'munich'? Why not call them hypocrites, profiteers, sing songs about them cashing in on a horrible tragedy instead? Why does it have to be a term which is bound to be misinterpreted by the general public for mockery of dead people? Why is that one word so important to some people that they would risk dragging the club's name through the dirt for? It's not even clever or witty or whatever, it just happens to be the place where 23 people lost their lives. I don't get it.

[twosips]

Exactly!

Though we all know its cos it gets the biggest reaction. I get the reasoning, but i'm almost certain the vast majority of people who sing Munich don't have some agenda like that - they just sing it cos they know it'll piss off United...for every one person like yourself, spartacus, i'm almost certain that there will be hundreds who just sing it for kicks.

[Esky]

Exactly!

Though we all know its cos it gets the biggest reaction. I get the reasoning, but i'm almost certain the vast majority of people who sing Munich don't have some agenda like that - they just sing it cos they know it'll piss off United...for every one person like yourself, spartacus, i'm almost certain that there will be hundreds who just sing it for kicks.

Yep. The 'we're referencing United's greed, not the tragedy' line gives far too much respect to the idiots who sing it just 'cause.

Outsiders will look down on the club whenever it's sung. It doesn't matter why people do it or how they justify it, it's always going to look bad.

I'm not one for the hyper-PC brigade, but it does make City fans look like we lack class.

[avoidconfusion]

I think the most important thing here is the Club have clearly stated that such chants are not welcome.

We have Colin Bell, Mancini and now even Khaldoon criticizing the fans who sing this stuff, and I personally do not give a fuck whether it is intended to be about the air disaster or not, the fact that these fans use the word "Munichs", makes it pretty clear that it is a reference to the air disaster in one way or another, intentional or unintentional.

Bottom line is, it does not matter if one thinks it is okay to sing it, the club clearly thinks it is not okay, that much is obvious now.

http://mcfc.co.uk/News/What-the-papers- ... n-steps-in

[Rag_hater]

I think when Martin Edwards made them a PLC is when they got money and the money of Sky.From what I remember they had finances like most of us till then.
The Munich thing might have got them some sympathy they milked.
So this point that they profitted of the dead may have some relevance but not as much as is said.
Anyway if the song has been going on for years seems to me that the people who find it funny are sad and I am suprised they have not got bored of it yet.

[john68]

Rag Hater,

When the air crash happened, it was big news. Even in those far off dark and black and white days before colour was invented, we were treated to highly emotive pictures of the plane, injured players in hospital and Busby in his oxygen tent. Following that, the media fest continued with the funerals, returning recovering players and ultimately the moved to the story of how the rags were rebuilding. As you would expect, it went on for months...then years....and it still goes on today. Only recently a TV drama was shown and even last night, there was a programme on Baldy Bobby with heavy references to the air crash.

The upshot of this was to garner a huge public sympathy. Until that happened, the rags were like any other club in the country...just an ordinary football club. The air crash and the support they generated from it became their biggest commercial asset and they well and truly milked it. It is an asset they happily drag from the closet every time they need to and it is what is happening now.

The Munich air crash is their biggest prize...bigger than any cup or trophy they have ever won. No matter what City win over the next few years, whether ultimately we go on to win 20 leagues and overtake their record. They will still be playing the same tune. "We had an air crash...you didn't".

[twosips]

So?

Let them have that. If we win 20 trophies I couldn't care less.

[BlueMoonAwoken]

It's all well & good reasoning with the milking of the crash, but why use the word 'munich'? Why not call them hypocrites, profiteers, sing songs about them cashing in on a horrible tragedy instead? Why does it have to be a term which is bound to be misinterpreted by the general public for mockery of dead people? Why is that one word so important to some people that they would risk dragging the club's name through the dirt for? It's not even clever or witty or whatever, it just happens to be the place where 23 people lost their lives. I don't get it.

well you make up a song thats catchy and will replace the word munich, and ill happily sing it.....

If the rags beat us in the semi none of this would of been mentioned, because we won they search for reasons to deflect praise away from us dominating them. A good pr stunt i might add, if we didnt sing songs with the term munich, it would be something else that would get blown up by the rag media.