The Aftermath

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The Aftermath

Postby Niall Quinns Discopants » Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:53 am

Right,
People think this was some ground shattering never-before-seen operation and that's just not true. Once in about every decade or so something like this comes up and the outcome is always some changes to Champion's League money spread and/or changing the competition so that big clubs get yet more chances of getting in on expense of smaller league quotas.

Difference is that this was the first time WE have been involved as these have always been G14 driven AND that it may have gone little further than before. But again, not really far at all.

Now people got upset but make no mistake this will be forgotten pretty soon. Sure City will get some halfarsed slack for this from supporters of smaller clubs but that's it. Also, we got some SERIOUS love from UEFAmafia (which disgusts me but that's another story) so there WILL be some newfound good will there.

But also, make NO mistake, City have been planning some sort of league for a while. I know it for a fact. Whether that is breakaway league or something extra I don't know. Also, make no mistake that this was about reaction of core fanbase. It wasn't. This was about bad reaction from markets they were looking for ie Asia and North America and possibly parts of Africa. I ei however think that City were caught by surprise this variation moving ahead so fast. Our terrible PR efforts tell the story.

Those are the cold hard facts. People can bury their heads into the sand again all they want nyt se will be facing this again sooner or later. Maybe not in few years now but definitely in the future.
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Re: The Aftermath

Postby blues-clues » Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:17 am

Let’s hope that if and when this thing comes around again it is better planned than the fiasco we have just witnessed. All they seemed to have was a name and a huge pile of cash. To have excluded players and fans from the process seems arrogant in the extreme but communications generally were appalling. With very little substance in place it’s hard to understand why they were in such a rush to announce it.
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Re: The Aftermath

Postby salford city » Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:37 am

This is the second time in quick succession that a breakaway has been mooted. Lets not forget the double red shite's 'rescue' proposal not so long ago. First time we have been named as co-conspirators though.
Everyone knows that this is not going away and it is going to come back in one guise or other. The proposals to add more teams to rhe chumps league are a continued joke and clearly don't satisfy the old G14 clubs and this ill-timed fiasco was a powe grab to try to cut out the UEFA middleman.
There will be something else to follow, the yanks want this and they will keep up the pressure. I just hope that we are looking at serious alternatives ourselves as we are a big enough force with ready cash which the majority of the old G14 don't have and that's what they were really after, the instant cash injection and promise of keeping more between them
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Re: The Aftermath

Postby Niall Quinns Discopants » Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:00 am

salford city wrote:This is the second time in quick succession that a breakaway has been mooted. Lets not forget the double red shite's 'rescue' proposal not so long ago. First time we have been named as co-conspirators though.
Everyone knows that this is not going away and it is going to come back in one guise or other. The proposals to add more teams to rhe chumps league are a continued joke and clearly don't satisfy the old G14 clubs and this ill-timed fiasco was a powe grab to try to cut out the UEFA middleman.
There will be something else to follow, the yanks want this and they will keep up the pressure. I just hope that we are looking at serious alternatives ourselves as we are a big enough force with ready cash which the majority of the old G14 don't have and that's what they were really after, the instant cash injection and promise of keeping more between them


I understand the business side and I understand that we are aiming to milk those massive developing countries markets. Premier League isn't enough for them and Champion's League is a problem because of the cut UEFA itself takes.

But as you said, we got the money AND the time. There has been careful planning for something like this for a while and I think they will keep going with it. But as professional as City exec's and PR department seem I don't think they would've caused mess like this.

Real, rags and Italian teams are absolutely cash strapped. I think they tried to get QUICK injection of cash through this exercise. Our main mistake was just panicking and making a quick decision. Could've stalled and seen where they were heading with this and what is the reaction of the markets and then join. Chelsea made the same mistake.
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Re: The Aftermath

Postby City64 » Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:15 am

It is a simple one . After that bloodbath which had to happen we have finally been accepted at UEFAS top table . Make no mistake our owners put everything on the line here whether we like it or not . And a stark message to society in a world of dictatorship........ people power always wins ! 8-)
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Re: The Aftermath

Postby Wooders » Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:19 am

ESL is not finished, they will make it happen, there is too much money involved for it to just die on a hill - to be honest, if it wasn’t for that disgraceful no relegation clause, I am up fir breaking away from uefa
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Re: The Aftermath

Postby Hazy2 » Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:21 am

Sheikh Mansour is the unlikely saviour of football. Man City's owner knows his manager, players and fans don't want the Super League... His early decision to pull out was the catalyst for this greedy scheme to QUICKLY crumble Yep spin the shit out of this. The Mail have it right. Hahahahaha
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Re: The Aftermath

Postby ross.mcfc » Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:36 am

What we and hopefully the owners of every "elite" club have learnt is that football fans will not accept a closed shop.

They'll be back with a different proposal, one that has promotion and relegation. With an ESL 2 attached meaning the likes of Everton and Leicester get a piece of the pie. Far too much money on the table for this to go away.
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Re: The Aftermath

Postby Niall Quinns Discopants » Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:10 am

ross.mcfc wrote:What we and hopefully the owners of every "elite" club have learnt is that football fans will not accept a closed shop.

They'll be back with a different proposal, one that has promotion and relegation. With an ESL 2 attached meaning the likes of Everton and Leicester get a piece of the pie. Far too much money on the table for this to go away.


My completely uneducated guess is that that's pretty much how it's going to go down. They need to have about half of the Premier League clubs involved in this. Your Everton's and West Hams are going to be down from their high horses pretty rapidly when they realize what sort of money will be available.
Sometimes we're good and sometimes we're bad but when we're good, at least we're much better than we used to be and when we are bad we're just as bad as we always used to be, so that's got to be good hasn't it?


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Re: The Aftermath

Postby ross.mcfc » Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:18 am

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:
ross.mcfc wrote:What we and hopefully the owners of every "elite" club have learnt is that football fans will not accept a closed shop.

They'll be back with a different proposal, one that has promotion and relegation. With an ESL 2 attached meaning the likes of Everton and Leicester get a piece of the pie. Far too much money on the table for this to go away.


My completely uneducated guess is that that's pretty much how it's going to go down. They need to have about half of the Premier League clubs involved in this. Your Everton's and West Hams are going to be down from their high horses pretty rapidly when they realize what sort of money will be available.


I said yesterday, this was an opening shot. It will get watered down but they'll still get the money they want. Add promotion and relegation in some form and remove Sky from the picture and replace it with a much cheaper Netflix-like subscription fee and people will buy into it.
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Re: The Aftermath

Postby Harry Dowd scored » Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:24 am

City64 wrote:It is a simple one . After that bloodbath which had to happen we have finally been accepted at UEFAS top table . Make no mistake our owners put everything on the line here whether we like it or not . And a stark message to society in a world of dictatorship........ people power always wins ! 8-)

I hope guys like you are around when the government start telling us what we can and can’t eat, and only the rich will be able to fly to holiday destinations, this eco nonsense will be worse than any ESL mark my words
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Re: The Aftermath

Postby patrickblue » Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:34 am

The worry now is that not only has Woodward resigned, but the rumour is that the Glaziers are thinking of selling.
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Re: The Aftermath

Postby nottsblue » Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:37 am

The immediate aftermath will be damage limitation, more so for the American owners as they are the true drivers of this. You only have to go back to their “rescue” package they proposed not so long ago.

But this will also be viewed as a learning curve.
What did they get wrong?
How can it be better proposed NEXT time?
What will get the public behind it?

Make no mistake, the main goal of this project was to make more money for the owners. Not the clubs. This will not go away in the short term. If at first you don’t succeed etc. The Covid-19 pandemic has lasted longer and affected the finances of a lot of these clubs much more than they would have planned and budgeted for and this was an opportunity to I dare say bring forward these plans to alleviate their financial concerns. Wouldn’t be surprised if it turned out this was scheduled for a couple of years in the future once the World Cup was done to enable PSG to be a part of it with no conflict of interest and it was brought forward due to the parlous state of the finances.

On a completely different tangent, this also may well have been a different strategy to FFP. That was essentially brought in to limit the spending of clubs outside of the G14. Ourselves and PSG blew that out of the water and clubs like Leicester and Atalanta and Leipzig have emerged also in the last few years to threaten the top 4 league placing season for CL qualification from respective European leagues. The fact that the ESL was going to accommodate 20 clubs, 15 founder and 5 annually, based on some algorithm of league performance means the old G14 have accepted that we and PSG aren’t going away as we are too well established. Add to mix the emergence of other teams aforementioned and they realised the game was up with the system that was in place. A bigger more lucrative competition was needed than the CL. The idea of a derivative of the ESL has been around for decades. I remember as a kid watching Saint and Greavsie in the 80s with Greaves in particular suggesting it would happen sooner rather than later especially with the advent of cheap flights and easy access to Europe. I guess the reformatting of the old European club competitions in the early 1990s served its purpose with the advent of the group stages to enable a guaranteed number of fixtures. This worked perfectly for a couple of decades. Look at Arsenal. Their goal since the early 2000s was not to challenge for the PL title but rather to ensure qualification for the CL. The Wenger Trophy as it laughingly became known as. Now the likes of the rags who had in the first two decades of the PL won 13 of them and finished runners up another 4/5 times, see it as their prime objective. Same was to be said for the dippers. Take away the previous 2 years and in how many seasons of the 30 since the won the league in 1990 did they truly challenge for the league title? 4 or 5 at a push. And this from a club who like rags had dominated the domestic game for the previous two decades.

The old top4 has in the last few years been expanded, admitted by Sky and other media, to a top 6. And throw in the emergence of Leicester to threaten the top4 CL qualification and further diminish the chances of CL qualification for the established larger clubs, is it any wonder the owners of these clubs are very very worried about their financial position. Therefore they need to do something to increase their revenues or at the very least increase the chances of their revenues. FFP had failed them and indeed was now hampering them as they were bound by the very restrictions they had put in place to limit spending by emerging clubs.

That something needed to be an expanded European club competition. UEFA it seems weren’t willing or were able to come up with a plan to GUARANTEE increased chances of revenue for the old G14. So the idea of ESL was revisited and revised with an increased number of clubs, 20, to enable their GUARANTEED participation and thus revenues. It has failed for now. But the reasons behind it are still very much at the forefront of the owners minds.

Every game that passes with no fans and match day revenue, every season with sponsorship money getting ever more marginalised, every year TV money decreasing and owners get more desperate. Spuds have spent huge sums on a new stadium as have Arsenal recently. The Nou Camp is in desperate need of renovation as is the swamp. The dippers have spent big and continue to need to spend on Anfield. Madrid are currently redeveloping the Bernabeu. Wages continue to increase so if costs are rising yet income is falling that spells disaster.

So, this simply is not going to disappear and the statements by a couple of the clubs allude to this. Let’s see what the next set of proposals entail
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Re: The Aftermath

Postby Nick » Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:23 pm

nottsblue wrote:The immediate aftermath will be damage limitation, more so for the American owners as they are the true drivers of this. You only have to go back to their “rescue” package they proposed not so long ago.

But this will also be viewed as a learning curve.
What did they get wrong?
How can it be better proposed NEXT time?
What will get the public behind it?

Make no mistake, the main goal of this project was to make more money for the owners. Not the clubs. This will not go away in the short term. If at first you don’t succeed etc. The Covid-19 pandemic has lasted longer and affected the finances of a lot of these clubs much more than they would have planned and budgeted for and this was an opportunity to I dare say bring forward these plans to alleviate their financial concerns. Wouldn’t be surprised if it turned out this was scheduled for a couple of years in the future once the World Cup was done to enable PSG to be a part of it with no conflict of interest and it was brought forward due to the parlous state of the finances.

On a completely different tangent, this also may well have been a different strategy to FFP. That was essentially brought in to limit the spending of clubs outside of the G14. Ourselves and PSG blew that out of the water and clubs like Leicester and Atalanta and Leipzig have emerged also in the last few years to threaten the top 4 league placing season for CL qualification from respective European leagues. The fact that the ESL was going to accommodate 20 clubs, 15 founder and 5 annually, based on some algorithm of league performance means the old G14 have accepted that we and PSG aren’t going away as we are too well established. Add to mix the emergence of other teams aforementioned and they realised the game was up with the system that was in place. A bigger more lucrative competition was needed than the CL. The idea of a derivative of the ESL has been around for decades. I remember as a kid watching Saint and Greavsie in the 80s with Greaves in particular suggesting it would happen sooner rather than later especially with the advent of cheap flights and easy access to Europe. I guess the reformatting of the old European club competitions in the early 1990s served its purpose with the advent of the group stages to enable a guaranteed number of fixtures. This worked perfectly for a couple of decades. Look at Arsenal. Their goal since the early 2000s was not to challenge for the PL title but rather to ensure qualification for the CL. The Wenger Trophy as it laughingly became known as. Now the likes of the rags who had in the first two decades of the PL won 13 of them and finished runners up another 4/5 times, see it as their prime objective. Same was to be said for the dippers. Take away the previous 2 years and in how many seasons of the 30 since the won the league in 1990 did they truly challenge for the league title? 4 or 5 at a push. And this from a club who like rags had dominated the domestic game for the previous two decades.

The old top4 has in the last few years been expanded, admitted by Sky and other media, to a top 6. And throw in the emergence of Leicester to threaten the top4 CL qualification and further diminish the chances of CL qualification for the established larger clubs, is it any wonder the owners of these clubs are very very worried about their financial position. Therefore they need to do something to increase their revenues or at the very least increase the chances of their revenues. FFP had failed them and indeed was now hampering them as they were bound by the very restrictions they had put in place to limit spending by emerging clubs.

That something needed to be an expanded European club competition. UEFA it seems weren’t willing or were able to come up with a plan to GUARANTEE increased chances of revenue for the old G14. So the idea of ESL was revisited and revised with an increased number of clubs, 20, to enable their GUARANTEED participation and thus revenues. It has failed for now. But the reasons behind it are still very much at the forefront of the owners minds.

Every game that passes with no fans and match day revenue, every season with sponsorship money getting ever more marginalised, every year TV money decreasing and owners get more desperate. Spuds have spent huge sums on a new stadium as have Arsenal recently. The Nou Camp is in desperate need of renovation as is the swamp. The dippers have spent big and continue to need to spend on Anfield. Madrid are currently redeveloping the Bernabeu. Wages continue to increase so if costs are rising yet income is falling that spells disaster.

So, this simply is not going to disappear and the statements by a couple of the clubs allude to this. Let’s see what the next set of proposals entail


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Re: The Aftermath

Postby Dimples » Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:31 pm

Recommend listening to John Barnes talking to McCoist and Woods on talksport earlier today.

He talks about what is really going on and how Fans are being exploited.

Well worth listening to.
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Re: The Aftermath

Postby City64 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:23 am

Breaking news on SSN .......

Believed that one of the American owners of the “big 6” is preparing to sell the club .

Kroenke or Glazer ?

Huge demonstrations planned outside the Emirates on Friday night and Old Trafford on Saturday.....
Not really here

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Re: The Aftermath

Postby salford city » Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:31 am

City64 wrote:Breaking news on SSN .......

Believed that one of the American owners of the “big 6” is preparing to sell the club .

Kroenke or Glazer ?

Huge demonstrations planned outside the Emirates on Friday night and Old Trafford on Saturday.....


Wont be glazer rhey are in it for rhe long-run haven't they just leveraged more debt on the swamp? They tried the green and yelliw before, that didnt result in anything other than a lot of old school fans going to fc utd.
It is all fun to watch though
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Re: The Aftermath

Postby Simister » Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:36 am

Nick wrote:
nottsblue wrote:The immediate aftermath will be damage limitation, more so for the American owners as they are the true drivers of this. You only have to go back to their “rescue” package they proposed not so long ago.

But this will also be viewed as a learning curve.
What did they get wrong?
How can it be better proposed NEXT time?
What will get the public behind it?

Make no mistake, the main goal of this project was to make more money for the owners. Not the clubs. This will not go away in the short term. If at first you don’t succeed etc. The Covid-19 pandemic has lasted longer and affected the finances of a lot of these clubs much more than they would have planned and budgeted for and this was an opportunity to I dare say bring forward these plans to alleviate their financial concerns. Wouldn’t be surprised if it turned out this was scheduled for a couple of years in the future once the World Cup was done to enable PSG to be a part of it with no conflict of interest and it was brought forward due to the parlous state of the finances.

On a completely different tangent, this also may well have been a different strategy to FFP. That was essentially brought in to limit the spending of clubs outside of the G14. Ourselves and PSG blew that out of the water and clubs like Leicester and Atalanta and Leipzig have emerged also in the last few years to threaten the top 4 league placing season for CL qualification from respective European leagues. The fact that the ESL was going to accommodate 20 clubs, 15 founder and 5 annually, based on some algorithm of league performance means the old G14 have accepted that we and PSG aren’t going away as we are too well established. Add to mix the emergence of other teams aforementioned and they realised the game was up with the system that was in place. A bigger more lucrative competition was needed than the CL. The idea of a derivative of the ESL has been around for decades. I remember as a kid watching Saint and Greavsie in the 80s with Greaves in particular suggesting it would happen sooner rather than later especially with the advent of cheap flights and easy access to Europe. I guess the reformatting of the old European club competitions in the early 1990s served its purpose with the advent of the group stages to enable a guaranteed number of fixtures. This worked perfectly for a couple of decades. Look at Arsenal. Their goal since the early 2000s was not to challenge for the PL title but rather to ensure qualification for the CL. The Wenger Trophy as it laughingly became known as. Now the likes of the rags who had in the first two decades of the PL won 13 of them and finished runners up another 4/5 times, see it as their prime objective. Same was to be said for the dippers. Take away the previous 2 years and in how many seasons of the 30 since the won the league in 1990 did they truly challenge for the league title? 4 or 5 at a push. And this from a club who like rags had dominated the domestic game for the previous two decades.

The old top4 has in the last few years been expanded, admitted by Sky and other media, to a top 6. And throw in the emergence of Leicester to threaten the top4 CL qualification and further diminish the chances of CL qualification for the established larger clubs, is it any wonder the owners of these clubs are very very worried about their financial position. Therefore they need to do something to increase their revenues or at the very least increase the chances of their revenues. FFP had failed them and indeed was now hampering them as they were bound by the very restrictions they had put in place to limit spending by emerging clubs.

That something needed to be an expanded European club competition. UEFA it seems weren’t willing or were able to come up with a plan to GUARANTEE increased chances of revenue for the old G14. So the idea of ESL was revisited and revised with an increased number of clubs, 20, to enable their GUARANTEED participation and thus revenues. It has failed for now. But the reasons behind it are still very much at the forefront of the owners minds.

Every game that passes with no fans and match day revenue, every season with sponsorship money getting ever more marginalised, every year TV money decreasing and owners get more desperate. Spuds have spent huge sums on a new stadium as have Arsenal recently. The Nou Camp is in desperate need of renovation as is the swamp. The dippers have spent big and continue to need to spend on Anfield. Madrid are currently redeveloping the Bernabeu. Wages continue to increase so if costs are rising yet income is falling that spells disaster.

So, this simply is not going to disappear and the statements by a couple of the clubs allude to this. Let’s see what the next set of proposals entail


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The elephants in the room are players' wages and agent fees.
The second one should be addressable if UEFA/FIFA/PL really had the will to do so - I can't see anybody from those bodies making a case for clubs paying agent's fees. Once player's are forced to pay their own agents then you'll see the fees drop like a stone.

But the biggie is players' wages. If they can be brought back to reality without a salary cap then suddenly football is solvent.
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Re: The Aftermath

Postby Paul68 » Sun Apr 25, 2021 7:48 am

Anyone believe this? Real Madrid president Saying no one can leave?
https://www.skysports.com/amp/football/ ... nnot-leave
I wish there was a way to know you are in the good old days....before you've actually left them...
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Re: The Aftermath

Postby salford city » Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:25 am

Paul68 wrote:Anyone believe this? Real Madrid president Saying no one can leave?
https://www.skysports.com/amp/football/ ... nnot-leave


No, he is desperate for a cash boost for his club. He wants to be careful what comes out of his mouth next else he may be having to find money that he doesn't have for a legal bill- though daresay his amigos at jp Morgan would help him seeing as he banks with them
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