Where is football heading and where do City fit in?

[mr_nool]

This is a fantastic thread. Wish we could reach this kind of standard on this board again...

By the way, where is the outrage against the new CL format, who h will also allow a few select teams to qualify based on "history" rather than merit?

[Dameerto]

This is a fantastic thread. Wish we could reach this kind of standard on this board again...

By the way, where is the outrage against the new CL format, who h will also allow a few select teams to qualify based on "history" rather than merit?

It almost slipped under the radar with the Super League fiasco - Klopp's been (rightfully) moaning about an increase in CL group games from 6 to 10 though. If City qualify as PL winners for the new format it means to get to the final City will have to play in 17 CL games (instead of 13 for this season's competion).
Interestingly enough, Gundogan has been getting some BBC coverage for posting about it too.

"With all the Super League stuff going on... can we please also speak about the new Champions League format? More and more and more games, is no one thinking about us players?
The new UCL format is just the lesser of the two evils in comparison to the Super League..."

[Whassat]

Pérez says Super League clubs ‘cannot leave’ as Manchester United fans protest

Real Madrid president: ‘this project will move forward’
United fans’ ‘Glazers Out’ banners demand owners quit

The Real Madrid president, Florentino Pérez, said the 12 clubs announced last week as founders of the European Super League cannot abandon it due to binding contracts and promised the project would return soon.

Pérez, whose club is one of three along with Barcelona and Juventus yet to withdraw, said it was not so simple for clubs to leave. “I don’t need to explain what a binding contract is but effectively, the clubs cannot leave,” Pérez told Spanish newspaper AS. “Some of them, due to pressure, have said they’re leaving. But this project, or one very similar, will move forward and I hope very soon.”

On Saturday, Manchester United fans staged protests outside Old Trafford, demanding the Glazer family cease ownership of the club after their part in the Super League project. Joel Glazer wrote an open letter of apology to fans and is also reported to have apologised to the club’s players.

JP Morgan, who had provided a €3.5bn grant to the founding clubs, said on Friday it had “misjudged how the deal would be viewed”. Pérez, however, said the bank was still on board: “It’s not true they’ve withdrawn. They have taken some time for reflection, just like the 12 clubs. If we need to make changes we will but the Super League is the best project we’ve thought of.

“The partnership still exists as do the members who comprise the Super League. What we have done is taken a few weeks to reflect in light of the fury of certain people who don’t want to lose their privileges and have manipulated the project.”

Pérez reiterated the need for the new competition to boost clubs struggling to cope with losses from the coronavirus pandemic, adding that the 12 Super League clubs had lost a combined €650m last year and stood to lose up to €2.5bn this year. He was also not convinced by Uefa’s reform of the Champions League, with the competition expanded to 36 teams from 2024.

“The Super League is the best possible project to help football come out of the crisis. Football is gravely hurt and we have to adapt to the era we live in,” he said. “The Champions League reform isn’t the best it can be, and what’s more we cannot wait until 2024.”

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... ns-protest

Perez, fuck off you old senile cunt!!!

[john68]

The sad but dangerous issue here with Mr Perez and those of his ilk; is that they hold a belief that they are the World and the rest of us merely exist to do their bidding when they snap their fingers.
on this occasion, he and his cronies snapped their fingers and the rest of the World bit them off. "How very dare we not jump on the shovel when he has shouted shit."

As the then CEO of the rags' parent company said at at a dinner in Manchester's Midland Hotel,some time before their American takeover; "The playing of football is merely coincidental to the business of Manchester United." That statement defines the vast difference in. which we as fans view the game and the way they define the game that they own and control.

Whilst we look at points and goal difference as a measure of success, they measure success by profit and share price. Our game is played on a pitch, theirs in the FTSE.

I am convnced that this is not over and am certain that Mr Perez has been holding numerous phone calls and meetings with the financially interested parties and he and his cronies are already starting to plan their next moves to set up whatthey see as their only exit strategy from the debt they have brought on themselves.

Someone on here posed the question; "Have they stolen our game?"
No they didn't steal anything, they bought it and by buying it, they believe they own it.

[JamieMCFC]

The money to be made from US TV makes the money Sky and BT look like small change. Another wrestling example - Tony Khan the Fulham owner set up his own company with his own money. After 3 months of doing decent ratings in the m18-30 demographic. TNT gave him 400m for three more years. He made $350m in three months. Why does this matter to football? TNT also owns the rights to CL and it does tremendous numbers because not only is there a demographic shift in the US but it is massively popular with younger people - the holy grail for TV.

TNT no longer have the rights to the Champions League it’s not on Viacom’s new streaming service Paramount+. TNT actually got out of their deal a year and half before it was up.

[zuricity]

Once again the Glazers get their sums wrong. They reckon a debt laden Rags are worth 4 Billion.

(According to the Fail).

There aren't any thick Billionaires are there ?

[Tokyo Blue]

Once again the Glazers get their sums wrong. They reckon a debt laden Rags are worth 4 Billion.

(According to the Fail).

There aren't any other thick Billionaires are there ?

Corrected for you.

[nottsblue]

Perez says the contracts for appearing in the ESL are legally binding. To who?

If we are any other club for that matter decided not to participate then what punishment could be levied and by what governing body?

Unless the contract had a clause in itself with a monetary fine for pulling out, but you would assume that clubs would have picked up on this and scrapped it. Certainly you'd hope we wouldn't be thick enough to sign something like that

[zuricity]

Once again the Glazers get their sums wrong. They reckon a debt laden Rags are worth 4 Billion.

(According to the Fail).

There aren't any other thick Billionaires are there ?

Corrected for you.

not so sure the Glazers are billionaires now though,

Their shopping malls are on credit too aren't they ?

[BlueinBosnia]

Perez says the contracts for appearing in the ESL are legally binding. To who?

If we are any other club for that matter decided not to participate then what punishment could be levied and by what governing body?

Unless the contract had a clause in itself with a monetary fine for pulling out, but you would assume that clubs would have picked up on this and scrapped it. Certainly you'd hope we wouldn't be thick enough to sign something like that

This is exactly what I was thinking. The only thing I can assume is that clubs have been given some kind of 'advance investment' that Barca (especially) et al. are relying on, and refusing to return. If there was a monetary fine, who would it be paid to, why, and who would enforce its payment? I assume if anyone goes ahead with a legal challenge, more details about the ESL's establishment (court of jurisdiction, seat of establishment, etc.) will become public knowledge.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

This is a fantastic thread. Wish we could reach this kind of standard on this board again...

By the way, where is the outrage against the new CL format, who h will also allow a few select teams to qualify based on "history" rather than merit?

Perfect timing by UEFAmafia. Went under the radar. Smaller leagues are fucking seething at this. And goes to show why I don't care much about the whole competition. I loved European Cup because it was league winners playing. Sure league winner of smaller league don't stand a chance but that's not the point now is it? The same way as you could say that smaller clubs shouldn't participate on FA Cup because they aren't going to win it. Again, not the point.

From where I stand Champion's League isn't much better than Super League. Same shit different people running it.

[john68]

Thanks NQDP for nudging this thread back to life Mate, because there is still much on this topic that needs understanding, debating and discussing.

The common perception is that this Super League issue is a battle of 'greed v the soul of football' and though it may have been portrayed like that to we fans through the fake outrage of the media, it clearly isn't. It is most definately a battle between ' one corrupt greedy corrupt faction v another greedy corrupt faction'
On this occasion the second greedy corrupt faction has dressed itself up as the guardians of the soul of football and in our need to oppose the cartel, we have thrown our support behind them.

What is clear is that neither of these warring factions give a flying fuck for football Neither the smaller clubs, the players nor the fans. Their only agenda is money and power and to control the top end of football for their own ends.

Simply because the cartel's Super League has been put on hold does not mean they are beaten, they have merely withdrawn from the field of battle to regroup and attack again, with a readjusted strategy and when they feel their chances of success are more in their favour. They have to attack again because the current system has led them into £billions of debt that has to serviced or they go under as businesses.

Our saviours and the saviours of football, EuFA, are not battling to save football. As we can see from their vision of the future, their plan is only a sopto the cartel to weaken their support, whilst increasing their own support. They are planning to do this by offering them enough to placate them and also offering more tit bits to a wider range of clubs to grab them by the financial goolies. No thought for the soul of the game, its players nor the fans. Just another bunch of greedy corrupt bastards following their own agenda.

So what about us? the big question is who do we support or do we actually oppose both. As Noolie stated and others agreed, there is no fake outrage on the UeFA plan. The media would seem to be content that the cartel have been defeated and chucked their support behind the UeFA plan. So who isleft to fight for us, or do we as fans and customers have to organise and fight for ourselves.

[nottsblue]

The CL and ESL are basically 2 cheeks of the same shit stained, puss filled boily backside

[john68]

The CL and ESL are basically 2 cheeks of the same shit stained, puss filled boily backside

YEP!!!
And even though we supported the anti carte, puss filledl arse cheek on this occasion, we are a separate group and they too are our enemy.

The question is; Where do we stand and if anything, what are we going to do about it?

A secondary poser for us to find an answer to is; Where do our owners stand and will we be willing to oppose them if necessary?
Or will we, in gratitude of what they have done already for our club, follow them to wherever they lead us.

We have to decide; Is it our club, or, because they have bought and financed it, is it theirs?

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

Thanks NQDP for nudging this thread back to life Mate, because there is still much on this topic that needs understanding, debating and discussing.

The common perception is that this Super League issue is a battle of 'greed v the soul of football' and though it may have been portrayed like that to we fans through the fake outrage of the media, it clearly isn't. It is most definately a battle between ' one corrupt greedy corrupt faction v another greedy corrupt faction'
On this occasion the second greedy corrupt faction has dressed itself up as the guardians of the soul of football and in our need to oppose the cartel, we have thrown our support behind them.

What is clear is that neither of these warring factions give a flying fuck for football Neither the smaller clubs, the players nor the fans. Their only agenda is money and power and to control the top end of football for their own ends.

Simply because the cartel's Super League has been put on hold does not mean they are beaten, they have merely withdrawn from the field of battle to regroup and attack again, with a readjusted strategy and when they feel their chances of success are more in their favour. They have to attack again because the current system has led them into £billions of debt that has to serviced or they go under as businesses.

Our saviours and the saviours of football, EuFA, are not battling to save football. As we can see from their vision of the future, their plan is only a sopto the cartel to weaken their support, whilst increasing their own support. They are planning to do this by offering them enough to placate them and also offering more tit bits to a wider range of clubs to grab them by the financial goolies. No thought for the soul of the game, its players nor the fans. Just another bunch of greedy corrupt bastards following their own agenda.

So what about us? the big question is who do we support or do we actually oppose both. As Noolie stated and others agreed, there is no fake outrage on the UeFA plan. The media would seem to be content that the cartel have been defeated and chucked their support behind the UeFA plan. So who isleft to fight for us, or do we as fans and customers have to organise and fight for ourselves.

All credit to Ross for bringing this back up.

This is the key

"What is clear is that neither of these warring factions give a flying fuck for football Neither the smaller clubs, the players nor the fans. Their only agenda is money and power and to control the top end of football for their own ends."

We are all just puppets and consumers. As are smaller clubs, smaller leagues and indeed vast majority of professional players. UEFA and ESL are just different sides of the same coin to me. Sure ESL was crap and poorly planned but how different is the current form of UCL? They bring no money to pyramid (that includes youth football, the absolute core of the future of the game) and mostly just take out money. UEFA only want their part of the cake. No one gives a SHIT about us. And people trying to kid themselves into thinking that UEFA are somehow better than Perez and his crew are sorely mistaken.

I will support City 'til the day I die. I have ALWAYS followed football at different levels but City has always been number one. But I find spending more and more time watching local and/or lower league football. Where you can still truly FEEL the game. I think many hardcore football supporters are heading towards that direction. And NO, I have NEVER felt out of love with City but I am falling out of love with modern top level football in general.

[s1ty m]

As the then CEO of the rags' parent company said at at a dinner in Manchester's Midland Hotel,some time before their American takeover; "The playing of football is merely coincidental to the business of Manchester United." That statement defines the vast difference in. which we as fans view the game and the way they define the game that they own and control.

Check out the Rags badge from the 70s against today. Two words are missing. Says it all.

[charvet_wonderland]

As the then CEO of the rags' parent company said at at a dinner in Manchester's Midland Hotel,some time before their American takeover; "The playing of football is merely coincidental to the business of Manchester United." That statement defines the vast difference in. which we as fans view the game and the way they define the game that they own and control.

Check out the Rags badge from the 70s against today. Two words are missing. Says it all.

If you go back a bit further they had the 3 rivers symbol to show local roots, but then they replaced that with a picture of Satan.

[patrickblue]

As the then CEO of the rags' parent company said at at a dinner in Manchester's Midland Hotel,some time before their American takeover; "The playing of football is merely coincidental to the business of Manchester United." That statement defines the vast difference in. which we as fans view the game and the way they define the game that they own and control.

Check out the Rags badge from the 70s against today. Two words are missing. Says it all.

If you go back a bit further they had the 3 rivers symbol to show local roots, but then they replaced that with a picture of Satan.

Where did you get that name?
I never imagined I'd hear those two words in the same sentence.

[charvet_wonderland]

As the then CEO of the rags' parent company said at at a dinner in Manchester's Midland Hotel,some time before their American takeover; "The playing of football is merely coincidental to the business of Manchester United." That statement defines the vast difference in. which we as fans view the game and the way they define the game that they own and control.

Check out the Rags badge from the 70s against today. Two words are missing. Says it all.

If you go back a bit further they had the 3 rivers symbol to show local roots, but then they replaced that with a picture of Satan.

Where did you get that name?
I never imagined I'd hear those two words in the same sentence.

Spent 15 years growing up sat a few rows back from a bunch of older lads who used to spend the whole match trying to get the main stand singing. Piss funny some of the stuff they came out with. That was my lasting memory when we left Maine Road: those last couple of seasons one of them used to get up on his own at least a couple of times every match, arms outstretched, belting out "there's only one Laurent Charvet..." start to finish, surrounded by disapproving silence apart from a small round of applause from his mates as he sat down. Good times

[dave watson's perm]

As the then CEO of the rags' parent company said at at a dinner in Manchester's Midland Hotel,some time before their American takeover; "The playing of football is merely coincidental to the business of Manchester United." That statement defines the vast difference in. which we as fans view the game and the way they define the game that they own and control.

Check out the Rags badge from the 70s against today. Two words are missing. Says it all.

Same as ours unfortunately