Mancini vs Hughes, Statistically

[Dazzacity]

Am I the only one who didn't think last night was THAT bad???
I've criricised Mancini's boring style of play but I actually think it has improved a little bit since the Chelsea game.
We should have been 2-0 up at half-time last night and even without the sending off we would've scored. If anything, we actually played worse for a period after they went down to 10 men.

Still shitscared of facing Arse, rags, Spurs and Villa though, especially as we have failed miserably against every decent team we've come up against under Mancini (except the Chelski game of course!)

I hear you.

I actually thought we attacked the fook out of Wigan in the second half!! We have had a few 'iffy' games in the past, but I think this is partly down to Mancini tryin to play it safe while he finds his feet at a new club and managing a side in a league which is new to him.This is totally understandable.

I can see real improvements in our game which are sometimes interrupted by the players slipping back into old habits. We were fine last night!! Its like it has become a fasion for some fans to slag off every game we play by saying it is a bore!!! I really hope we keep Mancini as I can see that the more he settles, the better we become and the team seems to be pulling together nicely. We have to remember that there are some serioulsy weak areas in the side which Im sure Mancini will address in the window. But for now, he can only work with what he has at hand.

But borin football!! I just see a guy trying to suss things out and he obviuosly done something right at halftime and turned the game,something our past manager hardly ever done..

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

Can anyone be arsed to do goals scored/conceded? cos that accounts for some of the entertainment value... I think cup games should be taken into an account (to an extent as well), a pot this year would've been just what the doctor ordered.

None of it really matters though - whether this season/the appointment/our signings etc. were a success will all come down to the table at the end of the year... nothing else.

Seeing as I have nothing better to do today......

Mancini P20 W11 D5 L5 F35 A22
Hughes P21 W9 D8 L2 F45 A29

Thats the records including cup games. Hughes' team scored nearly 30% more. However my complaint is not aboout goals scored as that to me doesnt necessarily equal entertainment. I certainly wasn't entertained for example when Burnley walked to a 2.0 lead, I was bloody fuming, nor was I entertained last night either side of the goals were were embarrassingly poor in all aspects of the game - which incidentally seemed a carbon copy of the blackburn game, woefully poor throughout, with a late flurry of goals.

I recognise that Mancini is effective, but I am pretty sure I am not alone in saying that I find it almost unwatchable.

About 20% actually.

In the cold light of day, i think we can agree that he was a little unlucky.
Straight comparison with Mancini for this season (i.e. these players) shows that there's not much between them.
If we'd have done what we looked like doing, looked so capable of, against Hull, Fulham and Burnley and he'd stayed we'd most likely be in the same sort of shape now pointswise, but playing more attractive stuff. The frustration for some of us, i'm sure, is that the games that we've lost under Mancini we've had our arses absolutely handed to us - never looked like breaking them down - and that wasn't really true of any of Hughes' defeats/draws (Spurs excepted).

Onwards and upwards though - I've seen positive signs since the Chelsea game - just need to adjust to our new style (like the players).

Like I said earlier and at the time, I was as surprised as anyone to see him sacked at that stage. Personally I probably wouldn't have sacked him when owners/chairman did.

I agree though, onwards and upwards.

[Dazzacity]

And as for the stats..

*Your comparing a guy that has loads of premiership experiance in playing and managing.A guy that previuosly had a whole season at the club under his belt.A guy that was given the chance to spend shit loads of cash on HIS own signings.

*To a guy that was thrown in half way through a season.Had no experiance in managing a Prem side.Had no real chance of spending large sums of money which resulted in him having to come in and find his feet with another managers squad without havin a pre-season to sus out the best playing style and selection. And he still ends up lookin the better of the two..

[s1ty m]

my seasoncard money.

Me mate and me go to as many games as we can via the Citycard route. Not since standing on the Kippax have I had a sesaon ticket, living in Coventry means every game is not an option, especially with the roads chocker and most games at times that mean I would have to retire first and then plan things around football. 10 games this year, or therabouts, is a decent hawl given the jobs we both do.

However, we are going for a Seasocard next season (95% sure), the only nag is that the football is not really appetising is it? Is it a bit churlish to be wanting entertainment? Tevez is worth the entrance fee alone. Johnson looks like a great prospect, well, a lot more than a prospect to be fair, he could get into the England squad for the Summer, he is a real card.

[blue wine]

And as for the stats..

*Your comparing a guy that has loads of premiership experiance in playing and managing.A guy that previuosly had a whole season at the club under his belt.A guy that was given the chance to spend shit loads of cash on HIS own signings.

*To a guy that was thrown in half way through a season.Had no experiance in managing a Prem side.Had no real chance of spending large sums of money which resulted in him having to come in and find his feet with another managers squad without havin a pre-season to sus out the best playing style and selection. And he still ends up lookin the better of the two..

^^this
well said my friend

[BlueinBosnia]

And as for the stats..

*Your comparing a guy that has loads of premiership experiance in playing and managing.A guy that previuosly had a whole season at the club under his belt.A guy that was given the chance to spend shit loads of cash on HIS own signings.

*To a guy that was thrown in half way through a season.Had no experiance in managing a Prem side.Had no real chance of spending large sums of money which resulted in him having to come in and find his feet with another managers squad without havin a pre-season to sus out the best playing style and selection. And he still ends up lookin the better of the two..

Laughable analysis. What about the fact that Hughes's tenure allowed 5 of the general starting 11 'to gel' with the rest of the team, and the fact that Tevez (the only player really performing at the moment) was absent at the start of the season? Hughes had 2 transfer windows with money, one of which was January, where players of stature are rarely tempted to move. Mancini has brought in Johnson (who I doubt was actually his signing) and Vieira. In a comparable window, Hughes signed Given, Bellamy, de Jong and Bridge, all of whom have been essential to our squad.

[Dazzacity]

And as for the stats..

*Your comparing a guy that has loads of premiership experiance in playing and managing.A guy that previuosly had a whole season at the club under his belt.A guy that was given the chance to spend shit loads of cash on HIS own signings.

*To a guy that was thrown in half way through a season.Had no experiance in managing a Prem side.Had no real chance of spending large sums of money which resulted in him having to come in and find his feet with another managers squad without havin a pre-season to sus out the best playing style and selection. And he still ends up lookin the better of the two..

Laughable analysis. What about the fact that Hughes's tenure allowed 5 of the general starting 11 'to gel' with the rest of the team, and the fact that Tevez (the only player really performing at the moment) was absent at the start of the season? Hughes had 2 transfer windows with money, one of which was January, where players of stature are rarely tempted to move. Mancini has brought in Johnson (who I doubt was actually his signing) and Vieira. In a comparable window, Hughes signed Given, Bellamy, de Jong and Bridge, all of whom have been essential to our squad.

No, it isnt laughable.Its stone cold FACT!! You really expect Mancini to come in and work wonders straight away and win every game 4-0 with sexy attacking football with a side someone else built?? I dont think so. I think some need to take a few steps back and take their heads out of the fookin clouds!

Surely you're not challanging the fact that a guy with 18 months experiance at a club in which time he has had a huge amount of time to get things to click, to which he has spent about £200 million on players- doesnt have a head start over someone who has been thrown in the deep end half way through a season?? That, my friend, is the laughable part.

You sound deluded..

[MaineRoadMemories]

I was posting this in the Mancini thread for some like for like game comparisons with the same squad.

UPDATED....
Not an exact science but comparing the two managers side by side for results there is very little in it between the two.

Mancini
Stoke City..................2-0
Wolves......................3-0
Blackburn...................4-1
Everton.....................0-2
Portsmouth.................2-0
Hull..........................1-2
Bolton.......................2-0
Stoke City..................1-1
Liverpool...................0-0
Chelsea.....................4-2
Sunderland.................1-1
Fulham.....................2-1
Everton....................0-2
Wigan......................3-0

Won 8 Lost 3 Drew 3 = 27

Hughes
Stoke City.................No 2009/10 comparison. Last year won 3-0
Wolves.....................1-0
Blackburn..................2-0
Everton....................No 2009/10 comparison. Last year won 2-0
Portsmouth................1-0
Hull.........................1-1
Bolton......................3-3
Stoke.......................No 2009/10 comparison. Last year lost 0-1
Liverpool..................2-2
Chelsea....................2-1
Sunderland................4-3
Fulham....................2-2
Everton...................No 2009/10 comparison. Last year lost 0-1
Wigan.....................1-1

Won 7 Drew 5 Lost 2 = 26

[BlueinBosnia]

No, it isnt laughable.Its stone cold FACT!! You really expect Mancini to come in and work wonders straight away and win every game 4-0 with sexy attacking football with a side someone else built?? I dont think so. I think some need to take a few steps back and take their heads out of the fookin clouds!

Surely you're not challanging the fact that a guy with 18 months experiance at a club in which time he has had a huge amount of time to get things to click, to which he has spend about £200 million on players- doesnt have a head start over someone who has been thrown in the deep end half way through a season?? That, my friend, is the laughable part.

You sound deluded..

Well, apart from the problem you seem to have separating fact from opinion, I do agree with you that Hughes had a head start. However, you're exaggerating that head start considerably. It still doesn't make me want to watch City at the moment. Perhaps I should do a statistical analysis of how I went out of my way to watch matches in the first half of the season, and the rather humdrum activities that now prevent me from doing so (going round my girlfriend's to eat quiche and muffins last night, for instance- no innuendo intended, even if some of the more perverse posters on here can find one).

[Dazzacity]

No, it isnt laughable.Its stone cold FACT!! You really expect Mancini to come in and work wonders straight away and win every game 4-0 with sexy attacking football with a side someone else built?? I dont think so. I think some need to take a few steps back and take their heads out of the fookin clouds!

Surely you're not challanging the fact that a guy with 18 months experiance at a club in which time he has had a huge amount of time to get things to click, to which he has spend about £200 million on players- doesnt have a head start over someone who has been thrown in the deep end half way through a season?? That, my friend, is the laughable part.

You sound deluded..

Well, apart from the problem you seem to have separating fact from opinion, I do agree with you that Hughes had a head start. However, you're exaggerating that head start considerably. It still doesn't make me want to watch City at the moment. Perhaps I should do a statistical analysis of how I went out of my way to watch matches in the first half of the season, and the rather humdrum activities that now prevent me from doing so (going round my girlfriend's to eat quiche and muffins last night, for instance- no innuendo intended, even if some of the more perverse posters on here can find one).

But it is a fact that Hughes had it alot easier than Mancini with the fact that he had a hell of alot more time at the club.Who do you expect to be doin the better job-a guy that has been at a club for one and half seasons,or a guy that has been at the club just half a season??? With the way things are lookin, I expect Mancini will do a hell of a better job at City in an 18 month period than Hughes pulled off in that time.We are already seeing signs of that.

Thats what I cant work out. We were'nt exactly boiling over with entertainment when Hughes was in charge.In fact, I think we were far worse and struggled to string 3 passes together at times. Maybe some are reflecting back to the days when we had Robinho on awesome form. Once that fizzled out, we went down hill. I certainly remember shoutin my mouth off at games while stood watching static players and passes going straight back to the oppisition. We actually run at teams under Mancini.

I hope he is the real deal for us. I cant really judge at the moment whether he is or not. But I ask people to look at the big picture,stand back and give the guy a chance. We're doing well!! its not like we are getting dicked every week,.

[Dunne's Half-Time Pint]

I went out of my way to watch matches in the first half of the season... [I went] round my girlfriend's to eat quiche and muffins last night.

mate...

[BlueinBosnia]

I went out of my way to watch matches in the first half of the season... [I went] round my girlfriend's to eat quiche and muffins last night.

mate...

Sad, I know. But that's the way I've felt since the first Stoke cup game. I'll watch if there's nothing else to do. I think I missed 2 league and 1 cup games in the first half of the season. I've already missed 9 under Mancini, at a quick count.

[Dazzacity]

I went out of my way to watch matches in the first half of the season... [I went] round my girlfriend's to eat quiche and muffins last night.

mate...

Sad, I know. But that's the way I've felt since the first Stoke cup game. I'll watch if there's nothing else to do. I think I missed 2 league and 1 cup games in the first half of the season. I've already missed 9 under Mancini, at a quick count.

So your basically sayin that you're judging Mancini from the handful of games you have watched since he took over??

[Im_Spartacus]

No, it isnt laughable.Its stone cold FACT!! You really expect Mancini to come in and work wonders straight away and win every game 4-0 with sexy attacking football with a side someone else built?? I dont think so. I think some need to take a few steps back and take their heads out of the fookin clouds!

Surely you're not challanging the fact that a guy with 18 months experiance at a club in which time he has had a huge amount of time to get things to click, to which he has spend about £200 million on players- doesnt have a head start over someone who has been thrown in the deep end half way through a season?? That, my friend, is the laughable part.

You sound deluded..

Well, apart from the problem you seem to have separating fact from opinion, I do agree with you that Hughes had a head start. However, you're exaggerating that head start considerably. It still doesn't make me want to watch City at the moment. Perhaps I should do a statistical analysis of how I went out of my way to watch matches in the first half of the season, and the rather humdrum activities that now prevent me from doing so (going round my girlfriend's to eat quiche and muffins last night, for instance- no innuendo intended, even if some of the more perverse posters on here can find one).

But it is a fact that Hughes had it alot easier than Mancini with the fact that he had a hell of alot more time at the club.Who do you expect to be doin the better job-a guy that has been at a club for one and half seasons,or a guy that has been at the club just half a season??? With the way things are lookin, I expect Mancini will do a hell of a better job at City in an 18 month period than Hughes pulled off in that time.We are already seeing signs of that.

Hughes should hang his head in shame for the first 12 months in charge. It was utterly shameful how he performed in the job, and all manner of excuses about the team he inherited dont mitigate the fact that last season was a disaster. Based on that backdrop, he improved this season but clearly not enough for the board, and as momentum slowed early in the season for the second year in a row, they felt the need for a change to take THESE players to the next level.

Hence Mancini's brief was pretty simple, do better than Hughes with the players you have - no excuses.

Statistically, which is what the thread is about, there is no doubt that the board can be vindicated by Mancini's early record being better than Hughes' very best spell in 18 months of trying. There is a lot of mileage in suggesting that Mancini will only get better once he strengthens the midfield, so as things stand right now - there is little to argue about other than the standard of the football which seems very samey from game to game - and which is open to exploitation by a side not necessarily more talented, but more committed.

[Dazzacity]

No, it isnt laughable.Its stone cold FACT!! You really expect Mancini to come in and work wonders straight away and win every game 4-0 with sexy attacking football with a side someone else built?? I dont think so. I think some need to take a few steps back and take their heads out of the fookin clouds!

Surely you're not challanging the fact that a guy with 18 months experiance at a club in which time he has had a huge amount of time to get things to click, to which he has spend about £200 million on players- doesnt have a head start over someone who has been thrown in the deep end half way through a season?? That, my friend, is the laughable part.

You sound deluded..

Well, apart from the problem you seem to have separating fact from opinion, I do agree with you that Hughes had a head start. However, you're exaggerating that head start considerably. It still doesn't make me want to watch City at the moment. Perhaps I should do a statistical analysis of how I went out of my way to watch matches in the first half of the season, and the rather humdrum activities that now prevent me from doing so (going round my girlfriend's to eat quiche and muffins last night, for instance- no innuendo intended, even if some of the more perverse posters on here can find one).

But it is a fact that Hughes had it alot easier than Mancini with the fact that he had a hell of alot more time at the club.Who do you expect to be doin the better job-a guy that has been at a club for one and half seasons,or a guy that has been at the club just half a season??? With the way things are lookin, I expect Mancini will do a hell of a better job at City in an 18 month period than Hughes pulled off in that time.We are already seeing signs of that.

Hughes should hang his head in shame for the first 12 months in charge. It was utterly shameful how he performed in the job, and all manner of excuses about the team he inherited dont mitigate the fact that last season was a disaster. Based on that backdrop, he improved this season but clearly not enough for the board, and as momentum slowed early in the season for the second year in a row, they felt the need for a change to take THESE players to the next level.

Hence Mancini's brief was pretty simple, do better than Hughes with the players you have - no excuses.

Statistically, which is what the thread is about, there is no doubt that the board can be vindicated by Mancini's early record being better than Hughes' very best spell in 18 months of trying. There is a lot of mileage in suggesting that Mancini will only get better once he strengthens the midfield, so as things stand right now - there is little to argue about other than the standard of the football which seems very samey from game to game - and which is open to exploitation by a side not necessarily more talented, but more committed.

I also think that Mancini's style in play comes down to him having no faith in our defence, and I dont really blame him. Im sure he is seeing things in a way that if we go all out attacking, we'll be exposed at the back and will get ripped apart. That coupled with the fact that we're seriuosly lacking in creative attacking midfielders, We dont really have any choice in the way we play. You cant really expect much else from our performances. We have to just keep at it and hope for the best at the end of the season.

[Beefymcfc]

The only thing that matters this season is the points, and Mancio is heading for 70+. I think Hughes would've got about the same but he-ho, that's life. They both had their own problems with regard to team/player matters, and that doesn't seem to be changing.

On the entertaiment stakes, I can honestly say that my SC seemed more valuable under Hughes and I've only really got excited in less than a hand-full of halves (if this is a preview of what it'd be like under Mourinho, then I'll pass thank you). Shame really, but what can you do when someones stealing your will to Live4City.

[avoidconfusion]

I don't think we will see Mancini's REAL style of play until he had a summer window to get some players in and shift some players out and form the team the way he wants to.

[the_georgian_genius]

And as for the stats..

*Your comparing a guy that has loads of premiership experiance in playing and managing.A guy that previuosly had a whole season at the club under his belt.A guy that was given the chance to spend shit loads of cash on HIS own signings.

*To a guy that was thrown in half way through a season.Had no experiance in managing a Prem side.Had no real chance of spending large sums of money which resulted in him having to come in and find his feet with another managers squad without havin a pre-season to sus out the best playing style and selection. And he still ends up lookin the better of the two..

^^this
well said my friend

and missing Tevez and Adebayor for a big chunk of those 20 games he has been in charged in.

As well as injuries to Bridge, Ireland, Lescott ect

What a fuckin clown we've hired.......................

[the_georgian_genius]

I don't think we will see Mancini's REAL style of play until he had a summer window to get some players in and shift some players out and form the team the way he wants to.

No we won't and it's unfair for people to judge him until then.

[Original Dub]

So in summary, its pretty closely run, with very different styles of football.

Well worth a new thread.