Mancini vs Hughes, Statistically

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

And as for the stats..

*Your comparing a guy that has loads of premiership experiance in playing and managing.A guy that previuosly had a whole season at the club under his belt.A guy that was given the chance to spend shit loads of cash on HIS own signings.

*To a guy that was thrown in half way through a season.Had no experiance in managing a Prem side.Had no real chance of spending large sums of money which resulted in him having to come in and find his feet with another managers squad without havin a pre-season to sus out the best playing style and selection. And he still ends up lookin the better of the two..

Not to mention the world and his dog talks about Mancini getting the push at the season end for Mourinho which has to be unsettling as we hit squeaky bum time - which is another factor in all of this. The next 7 games are huge and we will see what the players and management are made of. Games are going to be tighter, tenser affairs no matter who is in charge. We stand at the foothills of a tremendous journey and God alone knows how it will pan out in the next two months. All I want for us is to win the game and reach that first base camp of a top 4 spot. Mancini can grind/bore/batter us to victory I don't give a fuck as long as he does it.

And if the prospect of us being in at the sharp end of the season doesn't excite you then you must be dead.

Looks more like he's standing there confused & puddling us to victory imo but if it works good luck to him. 'Luck' possibly being the key word.

Like Bob said there, we are about to find out what players and manager are made of.

And I don't think luck will have anything to do with the outcome. Either way.

[Ted Hughes]

And as for the stats..

*Your comparing a guy that has loads of premiership experiance in playing and managing.A guy that previuosly had a whole season at the club under his belt.A guy that was given the chance to spend shit loads of cash on HIS own signings.

*To a guy that was thrown in half way through a season.Had no experiance in managing a Prem side.Had no real chance of spending large sums of money which resulted in him having to come in and find his feet with another managers squad without havin a pre-season to sus out the best playing style and selection. And he still ends up lookin the better of the two..

Not to mention the world and his dog talks about Mancini getting the push at the season end for Mourinho which has to be unsettling as we hit squeaky bum time - which is another factor in all of this. The next 7 games are huge and we will see what the players and management are made of. Games are going to be tighter, tenser affairs no matter who is in charge. We stand at the foothills of a tremendous journey and God alone knows how it will pan out in the next two months. All I want for us is to win the game and reach that first base camp of a top 4 spot. Mancini can grind/bore/batter us to victory I don't give a fuck as long as he does it.

And if the prospect of us being in at the sharp end of the season doesn't excite you then you must be dead.

Looks more like he's standing there confused & puddling us to victory imo but if it works good luck to him. 'Luck' possibly being the key word.

Like Bob said there, we are about to find out what players and manager are made of.

And I don't think luck will have anything to do with the outcome. Either way.

It already has imo.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

And as for the stats..

*Your comparing a guy that has loads of premiership experiance in playing and managing.A guy that previuosly had a whole season at the club under his belt.A guy that was given the chance to spend shit loads of cash on HIS own signings.

*To a guy that was thrown in half way through a season.Had no experiance in managing a Prem side.Had no real chance of spending large sums of money which resulted in him having to come in and find his feet with another managers squad without havin a pre-season to sus out the best playing style and selection. And he still ends up lookin the better of the two..

Not to mention the world and his dog talks about Mancini getting the push at the season end for Mourinho which has to be unsettling as we hit squeaky bum time - which is another factor in all of this. The next 7 games are huge and we will see what the players and management are made of. Games are going to be tighter, tenser affairs no matter who is in charge. We stand at the foothills of a tremendous journey and God alone knows how it will pan out in the next two months. All I want for us is to win the game and reach that first base camp of a top 4 spot. Mancini can grind/bore/batter us to victory I don't give a fuck as long as he does it.

And if the prospect of us being in at the sharp end of the season doesn't excite you then you must be dead.

Looks more like he's standing there confused & puddling us to victory imo but if it works good luck to him. 'Luck' possibly being the key word.

Like Bob said there, we are about to find out what players and manager are made of.

And I don't think luck will have anything to do with the outcome. Either way.

It already has imo.

What do you mean mate?

[Ted Hughes]

What do you mean mate?

I think he's made some almighty fuck ups & got away with it, almost always starting the game with the wrong team or formation & sometimes taking 2-3 changes to get it right. Luckily for us, teams have missed chances to put us out of these games & we've ended up winning some of them. Earlier in the season teams were beating us or drawing with us by scoring with almost every single shot they had in the game, some like Hull, without having a shot on target. Every mistakle was punished. Recently the luck we missed then has gone in our favour but if the opposite happens we could struggle.

I don't think he's got any idea about who his best 11 is or what formation to play them in or which team is the best to suit a particular opposition. That's not to say I think he's a bad manager, just not been around the PL long enough; it's quite understandable but true nontheless. If he finds the right team & tactics for the big games to come we may still get top 4 though, (with a bit of luck).

[BobKowalski]

And as for the stats..

*Your comparing a guy that has loads of premiership experiance in playing and managing.A guy that previuosly had a whole season at the club under his belt.A guy that was given the chance to spend shit loads of cash on HIS own signings.

*To a guy that was thrown in half way through a season.Had no experiance in managing a Prem side.Had no real chance of spending large sums of money which resulted in him having to come in and find his feet with another managers squad without havin a pre-season to sus out the best playing style and selection. And he still ends up lookin the better of the two..

Not to mention the world and his dog talks about Mancini getting the push at the season end for Mourinho which has to be unsettling as we hit squeaky bum time - which is another factor in all of this. The next 7 games are huge and we will see what the players and management are made of. Games are going to be tighter, tenser affairs no matter who is in charge. We stand at the foothills of a tremendous journey and God alone knows how it will pan out in the next two months. All I want for us is to win the game and reach that first base camp of a top 4 spot. Mancini can grind/bore/batter us to victory I don't give a fuck as long as he does it.

And if the prospect of us being in at the sharp end of the season doesn't excite you then you must be dead.

Looks more like he's standing there confused & puddling us to victory imo but if it works good luck to him. 'Luck' possibly being the key word.

I had a Hughes flashback with the 'confused & puddling' imagery.

Damn it was scarey

[Ted Hughes]

And as for the stats..

*Your comparing a guy that has loads of premiership experiance in playing and managing.A guy that previuosly had a whole season at the club under his belt.A guy that was given the chance to spend shit loads of cash on HIS own signings.

*To a guy that was thrown in half way through a season.Had no experiance in managing a Prem side.Had no real chance of spending large sums of money which resulted in him having to come in and find his feet with another managers squad without havin a pre-season to sus out the best playing style and selection. And he still ends up lookin the better of the two..

Not to mention the world and his dog talks about Mancini getting the push at the season end for Mourinho which has to be unsettling as we hit squeaky bum time - which is another factor in all of this. The next 7 games are huge and we will see what the players and management are made of. Games are going to be tighter, tenser affairs no matter who is in charge. We stand at the foothills of a tremendous journey and God alone knows how it will pan out in the next two months. All I want for us is to win the game and reach that first base camp of a top 4 spot. Mancini can grind/bore/batter us to victory I don't give a fuck as long as he does it.

And if the prospect of us being in at the sharp end of the season doesn't excite you then you must be dead.

Looks more like he's standing there confused & puddling us to victory imo but if it works good luck to him. 'Luck' possibly being the key word.

I had a Hughes flashback with the 'confused & puddling' imagery.

Damn it was scarey

Funny how you seem to actually enjoy it when it happens now.

[BobKowalski]

And as for the stats..

*Your comparing a guy that has loads of premiership experiance in playing and managing.A guy that previuosly had a whole season at the club under his belt.A guy that was given the chance to spend shit loads of cash on HIS own signings.

*To a guy that was thrown in half way through a season.Had no experiance in managing a Prem side.Had no real chance of spending large sums of money which resulted in him having to come in and find his feet with another managers squad without havin a pre-season to sus out the best playing style and selection. And he still ends up lookin the better of the two..

Not to mention the world and his dog talks about Mancini getting the push at the season end for Mourinho which has to be unsettling as we hit squeaky bum time - which is another factor in all of this. The next 7 games are huge and we will see what the players and management are made of. Games are going to be tighter, tenser affairs no matter who is in charge. We stand at the foothills of a tremendous journey and God alone knows how it will pan out in the next two months. All I want for us is to win the game and reach that first base camp of a top 4 spot. Mancini can grind/bore/batter us to victory I don't give a fuck as long as he does it.

And if the prospect of us being in at the sharp end of the season doesn't excite you then you must be dead.

Looks more like he's standing there confused & puddling us to victory imo but if it works good luck to him. 'Luck' possibly being the key word.

I had a Hughes flashback with the 'confused & puddling' imagery.

Damn it was scarey

Funny how you seem to actually enjoy it when it happens now.

Thats because I see it differently. I'm sure we've had this conversation already :)

I do see that Mancini can get things wrong and then tries to change things. I do see that Mancini tries different formations/personnel dependant on the opposition and that sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I do see tht Mancini looked at the defence and established that Kompany/Lescott was the way to go and did so relatively quickly (injuries permitting). I do see that Mancini is trying tp smack into their heads that organisation and team shape is important and has to be maintained for 90 minutes plus (they'll get it eventually Roberto). I do see that Bellers can actually play 2 games within a few days of each other (I threw this one in as it occurred to me the other day that Bellers seems to be playing more).

I don't see a Hughes sitting there as an ageing full back is roasted for a full 90 mins with nothing done about it or players looking for direction from the management and getting fuck all back. In a nutshell I like the Mancini way of doing things. In the long run it will be more effective and in the short term it will get you more points. If we want to be a major force in the PL and in Europe we need a coach who can operate at the highest level. I believe Mancini can do that.

Pretty simple really.

[Socrates]

Couple of points on the above, factoring in the quality of opposition when comparing the managers is not really necessary when our results against the Sky4 are in fact no different than against the league as a whole (11 points from 6 games = 1.83 per game compared to 45 from 25 = 1.80 per game). The difference between a points average that would result in 73 pts a season and one which would result in 65 points is clearly significant.

A quick comparison on goals scored and conceded in Premier League games only is also very telling. Yes we are scoring less but we are conceding less as well and by a far bigger percentage.

Goals scored per game: Hughes 1.94 Mancini 1.79
Goals conceded per game: Hughes 1.58 Mancini 0.86

A 7.7% reduction in goals scored compared to a 45.6% reduction in goals conceded.

[Fish111]

I have never liked the way stats are trotted out to try to prove a point.

They reckon 78% of stats are flawed anyway.

[Ted Hughes]

Thats because I see it differently. I'm sure we've had this conversation already :)

I do see that Mancini can get things wrong and then tries to change things. I do see that Mancini tries different formations/personnel dependant on the opposition and that sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I do see tht Mancini looked at the defence and established that Kompany/Lescott was the way to go and did so relatively quickly (injuries permitting). I do see that Mancini is trying tp smack into their heads that organisation and team shape is important and has to be maintained for 90 minutes plus (they'll get it eventually Roberto). I do see that Bellers can actually play 2 games within a few days of each other (I threw this one in as it occurred to me the other day that Bellers seems to be playing more).

I don't see a Hughes sitting there as an ageing full back is roasted for a full 90 mins with nothing done about it or players looking for direction from the management and getting fuck all back. In a nutshell I like the Mancini way of doing things. In the long run it will be more effective and in the short term it will get you more points. If we want to be a major force in the PL and in Europe we need a coach who can operate at the highest level. I believe Mancini can do that.

Pretty simple really.

It's because you prefer to see it differently.

Re Bellamy; no he SHOULDN'T be playing so many games, the manager is risking Bellamy's future to try & save his own. Why do you think he was on the bench rather than starting?

I don't know if you were at the game or not or having a half time pie but Mancini spent most of half time, when he could have been giving pearls of tactical wisdom to the players (who was doing that? Is that being proactive?) staring intently at Bellamy going through his training exercises. So imo rather than proving Bellamy can happily play 2 games in a week, he was seeing if it was possible to get him on the pitch without breaking down because he hadn't got the ability to change it any other way & his arse was on the line. In other words; playing Bellamy so often is & was utter desperation. I'm sure you can find another reason for him doing that but it was pretty obvious to me what was going on.

[BobKowalski]

Thats because I see it differently. I'm sure we've had this conversation already :)

I do see that Mancini can get things wrong and then tries to change things. I do see that Mancini tries different formations/personnel dependant on the opposition and that sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I do see tht Mancini looked at the defence and established that Kompany/Lescott was the way to go and did so relatively quickly (injuries permitting). I do see that Mancini is trying tp smack into their heads that organisation and team shape is important and has to be maintained for 90 minutes plus (they'll get it eventually Roberto). I do see that Bellers can actually play 2 games within a few days of each other (I threw this one in as it occurred to me the other day that Bellers seems to be playing more).

I don't see a Hughes sitting there as an ageing full back is roasted for a full 90 mins with nothing done about it or players looking for direction from the management and getting fuck all back. In a nutshell I like the Mancini way of doing things. In the long run it will be more effective and in the short term it will get you more points. If we want to be a major force in the PL and in Europe we need a coach who can operate at the highest level. I believe Mancini can do that.

Pretty simple really.

It's because you prefer to see it differently.

Re Bellamy; no he SHOULDN'T be playing so many games, the manager is risking Bellamy's future to try & save his own. Why do you think he was on the bench rather than starting?

I don't know if you were at the game or not or having a half time pie but Mancini spent most of half time, when he could have been giving pearls of tactical wisdom to the players (who was doing that? Is that being proactive?) staring intently at Bellamy going through his training exercises. So imo rather than proving Bellamy can happily play 2 games in a week, he was seeing if it was possible to get him on the pitch without breaking down because he hadn't got the ability to change it any other way & his arse was on the line. In other words; playing Bellamy so often is & was utter desperation. I'm sure you can find another reason for him doing that but it was pretty obvious to me what was going on.

Well according to Bellers he's only got a year or two left in him anyway so he might as well sacrifice it for a good cause.

And look on the bright side if Hughes lands the Celtic job (must not titter when I type that. Bad Bob) I'm sure Bellers can get a few more years in the SPL.

On a more serious note I think we all prefer to see things in away that suits our own prejudices and viewpoints. Just as you see things negatively I see the same actions in a more positive light. Although it would be nice if the usual suspects did not keep banging on about how shite Mancini is everytime we lose a match or don't win match by at least 3 clear goals - no hang on sorry by 4 clear goals. Actually the best ones are how the Chelsea result doesn't really count because we hit them on a slump so Mancini still hasn't really beaten anyone of note :)

It seems 'Mancini Derangement Syndrome' (MDS) has replaced 'Hughes Derangement Syndrome' (HDS). All the same symptoms but equally tedious to the uninfected.

[Spurge]

Hughes

[Bluez]

I already have my tin hat on for all the "cunts" and "twats" etc. So fire at will.

I couldn't resist looking at the results under both managers during this season. They have had basically same squad to work with. I confess that oneof the reasons to look into this was to see whether there was any sense in talk about how Mancini ruined a perfectly good season where we were sailing for fourth spot. However the main reason was to see whether decision to sack Hughes made any statistical sense. Especially as every pundit and their dog have been pointing out that Mancini has already lost more games than Hughes this season. I only took league records into account as I believe Mancini was hired by owners with only one job in mind, to break into top 4.

So here we go.

Hughes:

P-----W----D-----L-----Points-----P.P.G.
17----7-----8-----2------29----------1.71


Mancini:

P-----W----D-----L-----Points-----P.P.G.
14----8-----3-----3------27----------1.93


Now the difference in points per game don't seem that big. Over the season they would equal 65 points under Hughes and 73 points under Mancini. Last season we would've finished 5th with Hughes' points tally and 4th with Mancini's. So in that sense it LOOKS to make sense STATISTICALLY.

And YES, I know they are just statistics but this is just to look at the situation from statistical point of view. There are LOT of other things to concern when sacking and replacing manager. And I don't know why I'm making excuses here. They are just statistical FACTS anyway (unless I counted something wrong, which is very much posible).

Any which way 8-3-3 is pretty good record by anyone's standards imo.

Always good when someone takes the time to compare facts. The thing which surprises me the most is how Hughes in teh eyes of some posters was completely useless, yet he is only a little worse than Mancini statistically. Mancini is an improvement but I would have thought it would have been a greater increase as the baseline was supposed to be so low. With a full preseason under his belt you would hope it would get even better.

[Spurge]

I already have my tin hat on for all the "cunts" and "twats" etc. So fire at will.

I couldn't resist looking at the results under both managers during this season. They have had basically same squad to work with. I confess that oneof the reasons to look into this was to see whether there was any sense in talk about how Mancini ruined a perfectly good season where we were sailing for fourth spot. However the main reason was to see whether decision to sack Hughes made any statistical sense. Especially as every pundit and their dog have been pointing out that Mancini has already lost more games than Hughes this season.


I only took league records into account as I believe Mancini was hired by owners with only one job in mind, to break into top 4.
.

Yes I should imagine they weren't remotely bothered we lost the league cup semi to the rags and an FA cup tie at stoke. Don't know about a tin hat, I'd suggest one with 'D' on it and then go stand in the corner.

Cunts and twats - whats all that about?

[Socrates]

So we should add in 2 extra games against a full strength rag side to Mancini's record and Hughes's games against Scunthorpe and some 12 year olds from North London to make the comparison fairer. This idea that we would have won both Cups if Hughes had still been in charge is bizarre, especially the semi final given his appalling record against the rags...

[btajim]

So we should add in 2 extra games against a full strength rag side to Mancini's record and Hughes's games against Scunthorpe and some 12 year olds from North London to make the comparison fairer. This idea that we would have won both Cups if Hughes had still been in charge is bizarre, especially the semi final given his appalling record against the rags...

But Mancini took us out of both Cups in his first season. He lost his first Carling Cup round and his wins in the FA Cup were against Middlesbrough and Scunthorpe.

[bluej]

So we should add in 2 extra games against a full strength rag side to Mancini's record and Hughes's games against Scunthorpe and some 12 year olds from North London to make the comparison fairer. This idea that we would have won both Cups if Hughes had still been in charge is bizarre, especially the semi final given his appalling record against the rags...

Erm Mancini has played against Scunthorpe too....

[Ted Hughes]

Thats because I see it differently. I'm sure we've had this conversation already :)

I do see that Mancini can get things wrong and then tries to change things. I do see that Mancini tries different formations/personnel dependant on the opposition and that sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I do see tht Mancini looked at the defence and established that Kompany/Lescott was the way to go and did so relatively quickly (injuries permitting). I do see that Mancini is trying tp smack into their heads that organisation and team shape is important and has to be maintained for 90 minutes plus (they'll get it eventually Roberto). I do see that Bellers can actually play 2 games within a few days of each other (I threw this one in as it occurred to me the other day that Bellers seems to be playing more).

I don't see a Hughes sitting there as an ageing full back is roasted for a full 90 mins with nothing done about it or players looking for direction from the management and getting fuck all back. In a nutshell I like the Mancini way of doing things. In the long run it will be more effective and in the short term it will get you more points. If we want to be a major force in the PL and in Europe we need a coach who can operate at the highest level. I believe Mancini can do that.

Pretty simple really.

It's because you prefer to see it differently.

Re Bellamy; no he SHOULDN'T be playing so many games, the manager is risking Bellamy's future to try & save his own. Why do you think he was on the bench rather than starting?

I don't know if you were at the game or not or having a half time pie but Mancini spent most of half time, when he could have been giving pearls of tactical wisdom to the players (who was doing that? Is that being proactive?) staring intently at Bellamy going through his training exercises. So imo rather than proving Bellamy can happily play 2 games in a week, he was seeing if it was possible to get him on the pitch without breaking down because he hadn't got the ability to change it any other way & his arse was on the line. In other words; playing Bellamy so often is & was utter desperation. I'm sure you can find another reason for him doing that but it was pretty obvious to me what was going on.

Well according to Bellers he's only got a year or two left in him anyway so he might as well sacrifice it for a good cause.

And look on the bright side if Hughes lands the Celtic job (must not titter when I type that. Bad Bob) I'm sure Bellers can get a few more years in the SPL.

On a more serious note I think we all prefer to see things in away that suits our own prejudices and viewpoints. Just as you see things negatively I see the same actions in a more positive light. Although it would be nice if the usual suspects did not keep banging on about how shite Mancini is everytime we lose a match or don't win match by at least 3 clear goals - no hang on sorry by 4 clear goals. Actually the best ones are how the Chelsea result doesn't really count because we hit them on a slump so Mancini still hasn't really beaten anyone of note :)

It seems 'Mancini Derangement Syndrome' (MDS) has replaced 'Hughes Derangement Syndrome' (HDS). All the same symptoms but equally tedious to the uninfected.

Very few people actually call Mancini shite (apart from the ones who call everyone shite). Most criticise or praise according to what they see & many, including myself, are backing Mancini in spite of not rating many of his performances so far, seeing even 1% improvement on the pitch or thinking he's any improvement whatsoever on the previous manager. It's called GIVING THE BLOKE A CHANCE. So long as he plays attacking football when he can, I'll continue to. I'll criticise poor performance rather than be stupid about it. Don't think it'll matter though 'cos I think he's out the door.

[btajim]

Very few people actually call Mancini shite (apart from the ones who call everyone shite). Most criticise or praise according to what they see & many, including myself, are backing Mancini in spite of not rating many of his performances so far, seeing even 1% improvement on the pitch or thinking he's any improvement whatsoever on the previous manager. It's called GIVING THE BLOKE A CHANCE. So long as he plays attacking football when he can, I'll continue to. I'll criticise poor performance rather than be stupid about it. Don't think it'll matter though 'cos I think he's out the door.

I'd agree with most of that. Although a significant percentage of people on here didn't want to give Hughes a chance.

If Mancini is not in charge next season then that'll be a 6th Manager since we moved to The COMS. Hardly QPR-esque, but still a complete shambles.

[LookMumImOnMCF.net]

Can we have a comparison of Mancini v Mourinho, statistically, please.