IF We Finish 6th Do You Think Mancini Should Get the Chop?

[Mike J]

i think he deserves a full year but this mind numbing shit has to stop.

if we play that way against villa and spurs we will get beat.

[Slim]

I want to keep Mancini but playing for a point at Arsenal is a mistake of Alan Ball magnitude.

If you dressed up Portsmouths players in Arsenal shirts would a point be a good result? I said I expected Arsenal to lose to Spurs because I thought Barca's brilliance disguised the fact that arsenal were hopeless. They duly lost, lost to Wigan & then we played for a point because our manager was scared of them. It was tactically & strategically a disaster. They clearly hadn't thought it through.

The point only becomes useful if Spurs fail to beat Bolton & we fail to beat Villa. There's no use in being level with Spurs on points when they're playing Burnley at home last game. It was a brainless, hopeless, pathetic piece of planning & as I've said before, the managerial equivalent of Steve Lomas keeping the ball in the corner when we needed to score to stay up. We needed 3 points at Arsenal & a defeat would have left us with the same situation as we're in now. We had nothing to lose. It was strategic incompetence verging on a sackable offence.

Had this very discussion this week. On the face of it a point at Arsenal is hardly the disaster some people have made it out to be, but they were playing like it was an end of season tour match and we really did miss an opportunity. I think playing so deep in the middle meant that every ball intended to launch a counter either had to be met too deep with nothing up ahead or were 50yard angled balls covered by at least one midfielder and two defenders. With no-one alongside Tevez we had zero opportunity to isolate and beat anyone. Sadly while it looked like our forwards were lethargic, the reality is they were either asked to come insanely deep to collect the ball or completely isolated against two or three defenders at a time and had nowhere to go.

Adebayor helped, but so would a midfielder ghosting in behind and when we outnumbered them 3 to 2 in the midfield, Ireland should have been rushed onto the field in order to give us thrust and linkup through the middle.

[ENIAM NAM]

If we put up a good fight and only just miss out on CL, whether that be 5th or 6th, I think he will stay - despite him being brought in with the specific remit of finishing 4th.

If the season wimpers out with soft defeats at home to Villa and Spuds, I think we will look at different options.

[Ted Hughes]

I want to keep Mancini but playing for a point at Arsenal is a mistake of Alan Ball magnitude.

If you dressed up Portsmouths players in Arsenal shirts would a point be a good result? I said I expected Arsenal to lose to Spurs because I thought Barca's brilliance disguised the fact that arsenal were hopeless. They duly lost, lost to Wigan & then we played for a point because our manager was scared of them. It was tactically & strategically a disaster. They clearly hadn't thought it through.

The point only becomes useful if Spurs fail to beat Bolton & we fail to beat Villa. There's no use in being level with Spurs on points when they're playing Burnley at home last game. It was a brainless, hopeless, pathetic piece of planning & as I've said before, the managerial equivalent of Steve Lomas keeping the ball in the corner when we needed to score to stay up. We needed 3 points at Arsenal & a defeat would have left us with the same situation as we're in now. We had nothing to lose. It was strategic incompetence verging on a sackable offence.

Had this very discussion this week. On the face of it a point at Arsenal is hardly the disaster some people have made it out to be, but they were playing like it was an end of season tour match and we really did miss an opportunity. I think playing so deep in the middle meant that every ball intended to launch a counter either had to be met too deep with nothing up ahead or were 50yard angled balls covered by at least one midfielder and two defenders. With no-one alongside Tevez we had zero opportunity to isolate and beat anyone. Sadly while it looked like our forwards were lethargic, the reality is they were either asked to come insanely deep to collect the ball or completely isolated against two or three defenders at a time and had nowhere to go.

Adebayor helped, but so would a midfielder ghosting in behind and when we outnumbered them 3 to 2 in the midfield, Ireland should have been rushed onto the field in order to give us thrust and linkup through the middle.

I was expecting a lethal counter attacking performance & 3 points. I'm absolutely sure we could have done it. Had Persies free kick gone in it would have been 0-1 anyway so it wasn't even a failsafe tactic for a point.

[Dunne's Half-Time Pint]

No. break the cycle and that.
his style is still not to my taste though - and coming 6th would presumably result from a failure to get results against Villa and Spurs... which might suggest that he's not a big game/next level sort of manager.

[Ted Hughes]

No. break the cycle and that.
his style is still not to my taste though - and coming 6th would presumably result from a failure to get results against Villa and Spurs... which might suggest that he's not a big game/next level sort of manager.

That's true, it would be a worry but having appointed him, they owe him at least a season to prove otherwise.

[BobKowalski]

His position should be reviewed given that he was brought in to finish 4th.

However I do think the goalposts have moved a bit since his appointment and that irrespective of where we finish Mancini wil be retained for next season where the focus will be a title challenge with a CL spot as a given.

Much as we seem to think City should be tearing forward at all times and in all games there are times when pragmatic defence is called for and Mancini certainly knows how to organise a defence. Get this right consistantly for the full 90 + minutes in every game with players who have the mentality to do this and a squad that has a better balance to achieve this and the rest will follow.

Its Mancini's and the panel's call as to which players we currently have that can absorb and learn these lessons and who needs to be moved on and who needs to be brought in but I have confidence that the right decisions will be made.

And that really is the root of my optimism. For the first time in a long while I have confidence in the management and coaching staff in their ability to build, manage and coach a first rate team. That sense of frustration and wasted opportunity has gone and I really cannot wait for the next few games and to see what we do next season.

[Ted Hughes]

His position should be reviewed given that he was brought in to finish 4th.

However I do think the goalposts have moved a bit since his appointment and that irrespective of where we finish Mancini wil be retained for next season where the focus will be a title challenge with a CL spot as a given.

Much as we seem to think City should be tearing forward at all times and in all games there are times when pragmatic defence is called for and Mancini certainly knows how to organise a defence. Get this right consistantly for the full 90 + minutes in every game with players who have the mentality to do this and a squad that has a better balance to achieve this and the rest will follow.

Its Mancini's and the panel's call as to which players we currently have that can absorb and learn these lessons and who needs to be moved on and who needs to be brought in but I have confidence that the right decisions will be made.

And that really is the root of my optimism. For the first time in a long while I have confidence in the management and coaching staff in their ability to build, manage and coach a first rate team. That sense of frustration and wasted opportunity has gone and I really cannot wait for the next few games and to see what we do next season.

After the last 2 games my sense of frustration & wasted opportunity has just started. We can still do it though.

I don't see anyone on here advocating going forward at all times in all games, just an actual attempt to win, even by counter attacking with more than 2 players, rather than drawing or losing by having as many as possible defending. There's nothing clever tactically about that, it's not organising the defence, it's just crap, 2nd rate, tactics. If you organise like that, then as soon as you do attack, the defence doesn't know what to do without the extra protection. That's how Wolves & Hull try to play, not Chelsea & the rags. The only team in the 'big 4' who've concentrated mainly on defending at the expense of attacking are Liverpool & it's killed them. It won't work in the PL, he'll be bood off & eventually sacked. Making excuses for it doesn't help Mancini at all. It's him who will need to change, not us.

[Vhero]

Its a toughie as Hughes got sacked for basically looking like we were gonna come 6th though with Mancinis tactics against the Rags and the playing for a draw against the gooners (I will never know why he did that) He has bewildered me. I think he has something up his sleeves though and is still one of the best around. Getting rid is a silly move right now. He needs to work more with the team and get rid of the players that don't work well with his tactics. When he came in he had no idea who would work well with his training/tactics like Bellamy who was flourishing under Hughes has gone pretty much the opposite way under Mancini IMO. Not saying he hasn't played well but he was twice the player under Hughes so Mancini needs to bring in somebody in his own players.

[brite blu sky]

I want to keep Mancini but playing for a point at Arsenal is a mistake of Alan Ball magnitude.

If you dressed up Portsmouths players in Arsenal shirts would a point be a good result? I said I expected Arsenal to lose to Spurs because I thought Barca's brilliance disguised the fact that arsenal were hopeless. They duly lost, lost to Wigan & then we played for a point because our manager was scared of them. It was tactically & strategically a disaster. They clearly hadn't thought it through.

The point only becomes useful if Spurs fail to beat Bolton & we fail to beat Villa. There's no use in being level with Spurs on points when they're playing Burnley at home last game. It was a brainless, hopeless, pathetic piece of planning & as I've said before, the managerial equivalent of Steve Lomas keeping the ball in the corner when we needed to score to stay up. We needed 3 points at Arsenal & a defeat would have left us with the same situation as we're in now. We had nothing to lose. It was strategic incompetence verging on a sackable offence.

Had this very discussion this week. On the face of it a point at Arsenal is hardly the disaster some people have made it out to be, but they were playing like it was an end of season tour match and we really did miss an opportunity. I think playing so deep in the middle meant that every ball intended to launch a counter either had to be met too deep with nothing up ahead or were 50yard angled balls covered by at least one midfielder and two defenders. With no-one alongside Tevez we had zero opportunity to isolate and beat anyone. Sadly while it looked like our forwards were lethargic, the reality is they were either asked to come insanely deep to collect the ball or completely isolated against two or three defenders at a time and had nowhere to go.

Adebayor helped, but so would a midfielder ghosting in behind and when we outnumbered them 3 to 2 in the midfield, Ireland should have been rushed onto the field in order to give us thrust and linkup through the middle.

I was expecting a lethal counter attacking performance & 3 points. I'm absolutely sure we could have done it. Had Persies free kick gone in it would have been 0-1 anyway so it wasn't even a failsafe tactic for a point.

i was thinking that Arsenal were there for the taking.. but we know they are an experienced organised side so it depended on a goal basically. In the event i thought they defended a lot better than expected. If you read Gooner fans reaction to the game you will see a lot of them felt that City did a very good job of stopping their attack. i kind of agree with Ted but wouldn't go over the top as much. Would have been good to have seen Ade on from the start, but Mancini says that was due to the niggle he had and lack of training during the week.. so thats football imo.

[mcfc1632]

I want to keep Mancini but playing for a point at Arsenal is a mistake of Alan Ball magnitude.

If you dressed up Portsmouths players in Arsenal shirts would a point be a good result? I said I expected Arsenal to lose to Spurs because I thought Barca's brilliance disguised the fact that arsenal were hopeless. They duly lost, lost to Wigan & then we played for a point because our manager was scared of them. It was tactically & strategically a disaster. They clearly hadn't thought it through.

The point only becomes useful if Spurs fail to beat Bolton & we fail to beat Villa. There's no use in being level with Spurs on points when they're playing Burnley at home last game. It was a brainless, hopeless, pathetic piece of planning & as I've said before, the managerial equivalent of Steve Lomas keeping the ball in the corner when we needed to score to stay up. We needed 3 points at Arsenal & a defeat would have left us with the same situation as we're in now. We had nothing to lose. It was strategic incompetence verging on a sackable offence.

Had this very discussion this week. On the face of it a point at Arsenal is hardly the disaster some people have made it out to be, but they were playing like it was an end of season tour match and we really did miss an opportunity. I think playing so deep in the middle meant that every ball intended to launch a counter either had to be met too deep with nothing up ahead or were 50yard angled balls covered by at least one midfielder and two defenders. With no-one alongside Tevez we had zero opportunity to isolate and beat anyone. Sadly while it looked like our forwards were lethargic, the reality is they were either asked to come insanely deep to collect the ball or completely isolated against two or three defenders at a time and had nowhere to go.

Adebayor helped, but so would a midfielder ghosting in behind and when we outnumbered them 3 to 2 in the midfield, Ireland should have been rushed onto the field in order to give us thrust and linkup through the middle.

Congrats - that is a excellent / concise analysis - we just needed the right mindset (and you think - that if it was so to us fans - why oh why....)

[BobKowalski]

His position should be reviewed given that he was brought in to finish 4th.

However I do think the goalposts have moved a bit since his appointment and that irrespective of where we finish Mancini wil be retained for next season where the focus will be a title challenge with a CL spot as a given.

Much as we seem to think City should be tearing forward at all times and in all games there are times when pragmatic defence is called for and Mancini certainly knows how to organise a defence. Get this right consistantly for the full 90 + minutes in every game with players who have the mentality to do this and a squad that has a better balance to achieve this and the rest will follow.

Its Mancini's and the panel's call as to which players we currently have that can absorb and learn these lessons and who needs to be moved on and who needs to be brought in but I have confidence that the right decisions will be made.

And that really is the root of my optimism. For the first time in a long while I have confidence in the management and coaching staff in their ability to build, manage and coach a first rate team. That sense of frustration and wasted opportunity has gone and I really cannot wait for the next few games and to see what we do next season.

After the last 2 games my sense of frustration & wasted opportunity has just started. We can still do it though.

I don't see anyone on here advocating going forward at all times in all games, just an actual attempt to win, even by counter attacking with more than 2 players, rather than drawing or losing by having as many as possible defending. There's nothing clever tactically about that, it's not organising the defence, it's just crap, 2nd rate, tactics. If you organise like that, then as soon as you do attack, the defence doesn't know what to do without the extra protection. That's how Wolves & Hull try to play, not Chelsea & the rags. The only team in the 'big 4' who've concentrated mainly on defending at the expense of attacking are Liverpool & it's killed them. It won't work in the PL, he'll be bood off & eventually sacked. Making excuses for it doesn't help Mancini at all. It's him who will need to change, not us.

Organising the defence is a starting point and the bedrock from which all else needs to flow. The inability of the previous regime to orgainise a defence is what did for them and rightly so. Every top team knows how to grind out a result and shut the other team out. Arsenal did it in the Carling Cup final against Taggerts mod in '06 (?) I think it was. They shut up shop for 120 minutes and won on pens. Every top manager/coach does this and knows this. You get this right with the whole team acting as the first line of defence and the rest follows. Wenger has seemingly abandoned this approach but even he is now talking about spending money because he can't remain potless for much longer.

Rafa won the CL and reached another final and finished 2nd last year with some excellent football. This year it went tits and he went back to basics namely defence first. Jose defends deep and strong and looks to hit on the counter. Ancelotti did the same againts Arsenal at home with Wenger complaining that Arsenal played the football and Ancelotti responded yes but we got the goals.

We need ruthless pragmatism if we are to win things. And this has nothing to do with Mancini. We could replace Mancini with any one of half a dozen top coaches - some of whom by dint of experience and track record are currently better than Mancini and you would get the same result.

[dikdik]

Isn't he a vegetarian?

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

if we finish 6th then he will not have contributed any kind of improvement since his appointment and I will no doubt tut and wonder why we so harshly sacked Mark Hughes.
I will not be calling for us to make the same mistake again though, no.
An interesting flurry of new diversionary threads from you Antii. Good way of avoiding answering some very direct questions posed in threads that you've contributed a little less to lately.

I didn't think this was diversionary. I was interested to hear what the overall opinion was. Just because I'm curious to hear doesn't mean I'm trying to set up camps.

And I have little or no idea what you mean by questions posed to me on other threads. I have reading this site very little recently for various of reasons. One of the most important being that I was out of office since last wednesday and came back today as I was on bad flu home. We have no laptops (well there's two broken fix but not one working) at home currently so getting to computer would've meant getting up from the bed and truth be told, I was much rather reading good books.

[DoomMerchant]

Not to be pedantic, but why does the thread title say "If we finish 6th, Do you Think Mancini Should Get the Chop?" while the Poll title says something like "4th or the Chop"?

just curious...

i feel like stability is our friend. However, if Mancini drops all or most of the points we've got left and ends up 6th i'd be going into the summer asking "WTF?" and really wondering if he's the man. We shall soon find out.

cheers

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

Not to be pedantic, but why does the thread title say "If we finish 6th, Do you Think Mancini Should Get the Chop?" while the Poll title says something like "4th or the Chop"?

just curious...

i feel like stability is our friend. However, if Mancini drops all or most of the points we've got left and ends up 6th i'd be going into the summer asking "WTF?" and really wondering if he's the man. We shall soon find out.

cheers

Because I couldn't be arsed to type that shit on title again. Is that good enough reason?

[Slim]

I want to keep Mancini but playing for a point at Arsenal is a mistake of Alan Ball magnitude.

If you dressed up Portsmouths players in Arsenal shirts would a point be a good result? I said I expected Arsenal to lose to Spurs because I thought Barca's brilliance disguised the fact that arsenal were hopeless. They duly lost, lost to Wigan & then we played for a point because our manager was scared of them. It was tactically & strategically a disaster. They clearly hadn't thought it through.

The point only becomes useful if Spurs fail to beat Bolton & we fail to beat Villa. There's no use in being level with Spurs on points when they're playing Burnley at home last game. It was a brainless, hopeless, pathetic piece of planning & as I've said before, the managerial equivalent of Steve Lomas keeping the ball in the corner when we needed to score to stay up. We needed 3 points at Arsenal & a defeat would have left us with the same situation as we're in now. We had nothing to lose. It was strategic incompetence verging on a sackable offence.

Had this very discussion this week. On the face of it a point at Arsenal is hardly the disaster some people have made it out to be, but they were playing like it was an end of season tour match and we really did miss an opportunity. I think playing so deep in the middle meant that every ball intended to launch a counter either had to be met too deep with nothing up ahead or were 50yard angled balls covered by at least one midfielder and two defenders. With no-one alongside Tevez we had zero opportunity to isolate and beat anyone. Sadly while it looked like our forwards were lethargic, the reality is they were either asked to come insanely deep to collect the ball or completely isolated against two or three defenders at a time and had nowhere to go.

Adebayor helped, but so would a midfielder ghosting in behind and when we outnumbered them 3 to 2 in the midfield, Ireland should have been rushed onto the field in order to give us thrust and linkup through the middle.

Congrats - that is a excellent / concise analysis - we just needed the right mindset (and you think - that if it was so to us fans - why oh why....)

Some times I wish I had been better at football and maybe I could have had a half arsed career and jumped into management at earliest opportunity.

[Wooders]

I'm not getting on with him to be honest, the style of football, the meaningless interviews, the supposed player fallouts

all the things the hughes haters had against hughes I have against mancini, however, he needs time

[Beefymcfc]

Just out of curiosity. What do you think? That is certainly something many people have hinted in past months but where do you stand now?

I sure hope you have answered 'Yes' to this one mate as you weren't budging from 4th under Hughes?

For me, I'd say 'No' as I was expecting a Top 6, never mind the battle for 4th.

[btajim]

Only 44 votes so far? It takes a second to click your choice. You've no obligation to join in the debate!