City legends old and new

[mr_nool]

Future - Mario

he has yet to kick a ball in the league, and he's en route to legend status. If i am him i just retire now so as not to fucl up my legacy. Or my driving record.

There is a fucking route that would make the Donner Party pause carefully which stands between Mario and City legend status.

cheers

[Burt]

What a really good thread Paddy and one that has really made me think.

From the moment that some bright spark said..."Should we start a football team," possibly even before 1880, there must have been thousands of players who have served our club...(I must research that figure). Equally, if Mercer and Allison have been added, we must also consider some of the personalities without whom there would be no Manchester City.

Looking at that list, the bar has been set very high indeed and we must remember that historically, we have had some very successful teams with some very successful players who are not on the list. The likes of Morrison or Kinkladze may have been excellent in their time but were they really good enough to be listed in our club's historical elite list? I would say no. I don't think our legend list should accomodate players just because we liked them, they should have had to have been very special indded. For that reason, as much as I regret it, i cannot add the Goat either...and I loved that guy to bits.

Of the present squad, we have now got a better squad than ever before in our history and potentially many of the present group could add their names, should we realise the success we dream of. I am convinced that, should he remain a blue for a number of years, that Joe Hart could match Swift and Trautmann.

If Mercer and Allison make the non players' list, then we must include our founders; Connell, Beastowe and Goodbehere, as it was they who raised this club from the gutters of West Gorton and set it on its way. Joshua Parleby would also merit inclusion too as it was he, in 1894, who oversaw our pheonix like rise from folding up as Ardwick AFC into the modern Manchester City FC. Albert Alexander, served our club in a number of roles from almost the start of the 1900s and was Chairman when we were successful in the 1960s. Finally, in the modern era I would include Bernstein. He became Chairman at our lowest ebb and under his stewardship, we stabilised and he turned the club around. Bernstein was a massive influence on City.

...and where would we be now without our present esteemed Sheik. Not just for his money and future ambition but also the respectful way he has treated our club, its culture and our heritage. Mansour is a defo for the list.

John, you cannot dismiss The Goat and Morrison and then include Bernstein. The reason i said those two is because they dragged us out of the gutter when we were practically down and out. I think that but for them, we could well still be in the 3rd division right now and therefore, no Sheiki fellas dough etc.

[CitizenYank]

I am not touching this one with a ten foot pole. Save a little love for Richard Dunne though.

[Beeks]

Future - Mario

he has yet to kick a ball in the league, and he's en route to legend status. If i am him i just retire now so as not to fucl up my legacy. Or my driving record.

There is a fucking route that would make the Donner Party pause carefully which stands between Mario and City legend status.

cheers

O Ye of little faith

Cheereth

[Blue Blood]

i still think the books are yet be written for michael johnson.

I still think Johnno can be a really special player also, defo could be a city legend if he drags himself back to standard.

[sandman]

Last: Dunne

Next: Hart

All Time: Trautman / Bell

Personal Favourite: The Goat

Good call mate. They don't come any braver than Bert, that's for sure. The soft fuclers these days cry off with a finger in the ear but Bert played on with a broken gregory peck!!!

Its a different game now, its become a non contact sport and I blame MOTD and SSN for 38 playbacks on every tackle to see if there was contact. Who cares if two fully grown men brush against each other or someones foot lighly skims the strikers shin, it should be expected, either stay on your feet or get up and play on. Free kicks and cards should only ever be given for obvious malicious intent.

I am not encouraging fowling, I am discouraging diving, Players from Berts day must despise watching the modern game.

[Dubciteh]

dunne last legend we had, future possibly AJ, swp always be a city legend in my book too.

[sandman]

swp always be a city legend in my book too.

I have a BIG problem with SWP.

Firstly, he has never been a class player, when he was here the first time he was great in comparison to what we had and he had the potential to be sensational, I rated him higher than any other young player in the world, but he showed complete disrespect for City when he went for the big name club and left too soon. Lets face it we all knew at the time that he wasnt quite ready for Chelsea's first team and would rot on the bench as they had the money and the status to buy ready to play first teamers, they only bought him so that Arsenal couldnt. He should have stayed one more year and walked into another clubs first team. Since SWP has come back he has shown less than 5 performances that are good enough for where City want to be, for me he is a bench player at best behind Johnson and Milner.

SWP had the potential to be a footballing legend, not just a city one, but he got too big for his boots too early, likely miss informed by his tool of a step dad and wasted his prime sat on a bench with no real chance of progression and came back barely a shadow of the player he should have been.

[mr_nool]

swp always be a city legend in my book too.

I have a BIG problem with SWP.

Firstly, he has never been a class player, when he was here the first time he was great in comparison to what we had and he had the potential to be sensational, I rated him higher than any other young player in the world, but he showed complete disrespect for City when he went for the big name club and left too soon. Lets face it we all knew at the time that he wasnt quite ready for Chelsea's first team and would rot on the bench as they had the money and the status to buy ready to play first teamers, they only bought him so that Arsenal couldnt. He should have stayed one more year and walked into another clubs first team. Since SWP has come back he has shown less than 5 performances that are good enough for where City want to be, for me he is a bench player at best behind Johnson and Milner.

SWP had the potential to be a footballing legend, not just a city one, but he got too big for his boots too early, likely miss informed by his tool of a step dad and wasted his prime sat on a bench with no real chance of progression and came back barely a shadow of the player he should have been.

I think you're being too harsh on SWP. I'm not saying he didn't want to go to Chelsea, but at least he didn't force a move. I think City was more than happy to cash in on him, and I dare not think of where we would be now hadn't we gotten those millions then.

[sandman]

swp always be a city legend in my book too.

I have a BIG problem with SWP.

Firstly, he has never been a class player, when he was here the first time he was great in comparison to what we had and he had the potential to be sensational, I rated him higher than any other young player in the world, but he showed complete disrespect for City when he went for the big name club and left too soon. Lets face it we all knew at the time that he wasnt quite ready for Chelsea's first team and would rot on the bench as they had the money and the status to buy ready to play first teamers, they only bought him so that Arsenal couldnt. He should have stayed one more year and walked into another clubs first team. Since SWP has come back he has shown less than 5 performances that are good enough for where City want to be, for me he is a bench player at best behind Johnson and Milner.

SWP had the potential to be a footballing legend, not just a city one, but he got too big for his boots too early, likely miss informed by his tool of a step dad and wasted his prime sat on a bench with no real chance of progression and came back barely a shadow of the player he should have been.

I think you're being too harsh on SWP. I'm not saying he didn't want to go to Chelsea, but at least he didn't force a move. I think City was more than happy to cash in on him, and I dare not think of where we would be now hadn't we gotten those millions then.

I honestly think if he carried on improving at the rate he did he would have gone for £30m+ the following year, I also think he would have developed enough to walk straight into the first team of either a top 4 here or an immense european side?

[mr_nool]

swp always be a city legend in my book too.

I have a BIG problem with SWP.

Firstly, he has never been a class player, when he was here the first time he was great in comparison to what we had and he had the potential to be sensational, I rated him higher than any other young player in the world, but he showed complete disrespect for City when he went for the big name club and left too soon. Lets face it we all knew at the time that he wasnt quite ready for Chelsea's first team and would rot on the bench as they had the money and the status to buy ready to play first teamers, they only bought him so that Arsenal couldnt. He should have stayed one more year and walked into another clubs first team. Since SWP has come back he has shown less than 5 performances that are good enough for where City want to be, for me he is a bench player at best behind Johnson and Milner.

SWP had the potential to be a footballing legend, not just a city one, but he got too big for his boots too early, likely miss informed by his tool of a step dad and wasted his prime sat on a bench with no real chance of progression and came back barely a shadow of the player he should have been.

I think you're being too harsh on SWP. I'm not saying he didn't want to go to Chelsea, but at least he didn't force a move. I think City was more than happy to cash in on him, and I dare not think of where we would be now hadn't we gotten those millions then.

I honestly think if he carried on improving at the rate he did he would have gone for £30m+ the following year, I also think he would have developed enough to walk straight into the first team of either a top 4 here or an immense european side?

You might be right but that we will never know - he could also have had a career-ending injury the next season ... I do strongly think that City needed the cash there and then, and that they didn't want to take any risks once they were offered major cash.

[sandman]

swp always be a city legend in my book too.

I have a BIG problem with SWP.

Firstly, he has never been a class player, when he was here the first time he was great in comparison to what we had and he had the potential to be sensational, I rated him higher than any other young player in the world, but he showed complete disrespect for City when he went for the big name club and left too soon. Lets face it we all knew at the time that he wasnt quite ready for Chelsea's first team and would rot on the bench as they had the money and the status to buy ready to play first teamers, they only bought him so that Arsenal couldnt. He should have stayed one more year and walked into another clubs first team. Since SWP has come back he has shown less than 5 performances that are good enough for where City want to be, for me he is a bench player at best behind Johnson and Milner.

SWP had the potential to be a footballing legend, not just a city one, but he got too big for his boots too early, likely miss informed by his tool of a step dad and wasted his prime sat on a bench with no real chance of progression and came back barely a shadow of the player he should have been.

I think you're being too harsh on SWP. I'm not saying he didn't want to go to Chelsea, but at least he didn't force a move. I think City was more than happy to cash in on him, and I dare not think of where we would be now hadn't we gotten those millions then.

I honestly think if he carried on improving at the rate he did he would have gone for £30m+ the following year, I also think he would have developed enough to walk straight into the first team of either a top 4 here or an immense european side?

You might be right but that we will never know - he could also have had a career-ending injury the next season ... I do strongly think that City needed the cash there and then, and that they didn't want to take any risks once they were offered major cash.

Spot on, fair do's, I am being harsh about the way he left, but I stand by the fact that he never did enough to be a City legend. If I dont consider Kinkladze to be a legend (went missing too much and lost interest before he left) then for me SWP is not even close.

[eastlands-lostboy]

Certainly the GOAT

ROSLER and KINKY ARE THERE

ALL TIME TRAUTMANN AND BELL FOR ME

OTHERS ARE THERE BUT NOT FOR ME

FUTURE KOMPANY IS DOING WELL BUT POTENTIALLY I AGREE WITH A LOT OF OTHERS TEVEZ AND HART

[Fish111]

Rosler, Kinky, The Goat, Dickov, Dunne, Bernarbia & White are all legends in my book in recent years.

Out of the current crop i think Hart, NDJ, Milner & AJ will get hero status in years to come. Though i did tip Ireland to be our next Colin Bell.

[john68]

Burt,
It is only my opinion and you could well be right Mate. We have to remember that the Hall of Fame members were voted reasonably recently and many players who will have been far greater servants than either the Goat or Morrison have been overlooked. I understand that the reason is that they have largely been forgotten and the generations to whom they were heroes are older than even I and their memory lost.
Looking down that list of players, they all played for City at the highest level, not only that, they were stand out players at that top level. If we were to lower the bar include the likes of Goater and Morrison, that would then surely open the door for the inclusion of many many more City players from our glorious past who have more than equalled the standards reached by the Goat and Morrison.

I would be more than happy to back down and leave Bernstein out, if it was considered his role to be insufficient for inclusion.

IMHO...Our Hall of Fame includes only a handful of our greatest personalities, the bar is set extremely high and entrance should only be open to those who have proved their worth at the very highest level or proven their quality and loyalty over a long period of time.

[Burt]

Burt,
It is only my opinion and you could well be right Mate. We have to remember that the Hall of Fame members were voted reasonably recently and many players who will have been far greater servants than either the Goat or Morrison have been overlooked. I understand that the reason is that they have largely been forgotten and the generations to whom they were heroes are older than even I and their memory lost.
Looking down that list of players, they all played for City at the highest level, not only that, they were stand out players at that top level. If we were to lower the bar include the likes of Goater and Morrison, that would then surely open the door for the inclusion of many many more City players from our glorious past who have more than equalled the standards reached by the Goat and Morrison.

I would be more than happy to back down and leave Bernstein out, if it was considered his role to be insufficient for inclusion.

IMHO...Our Hall of Fame includes only a handful of our greatest personalities, the bar is set extremely high and entrance should only be open to those who have proved their worth at the very highest level or proven their quality and loyalty over a long period of time.

Fair play John but my point is not so much how good those players were. It's about how crucial they were to saving us from oblivion at the time. As did Bernstein behind the scenes.

[john68]

Playing Devil's advocate to my own argument...(or more likely talking to myself).

I suppose an argument could be made that by setting the bar so high the club are doing themselves a disservice and and hiding away some great club servants. Maybe we should lower the bar and shout about a larger number of players that have served the club so well.
Our Hall of Fame denies recognition to; (according to the list posted on here)
Tommy Booth...491 apps...in 13 years
Jackie Bray......459 apps...in 16 years
Eli Fletcher......459 apps...in 14 years
Paul Power.......445 apps...in 11 years
Willie Donachie..436 apps...in 10 years
Ernie Toseland...413 apps...in 16 years.

If anyone has said "WHO?" to any of those, as I have, it shows that the club really does need to crow a bit louder about its history and great heritage. Something the media would have the World think we have none of.

[eastlands-lostboy]

Well done to Denis Laws Backheel, history says we are on a par with Chelsea overall, so things look good going ahead, Football league stats puts us I think 16th or 18th Liverpool are top of this Official stats site. A man who knows his history will always win his argument.

[Beefymcfc]

In recent years, we can't really call players legends 'cos realistically they've done fuck all as a team to deserve it; afterall, the last few just seemed to be for publicity for me. However, in the modern era there are a few who stand out and I'd argue the toss that the likes of Andy Morrison, Shaun Goater and Richard Dunne, should be distinguished for services to the club.

[edgeley blue]

I do like John 68 comments on the historical part of our club and did once offer to give him the benefit of my own research into the club. Unfortunately he never answered my pm for whatever reason.

However, I would like to remind him and all of you that the greatest player to ever pull on a City shirt was the one and only Peter Doherty