My Views on Wigan, UEFA Cup etc

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

I had to wait for good 36 hours after the final whistle to see the game because it wasn't shown live. So I stayed out of the site as well. Also, I haven't been (able) to post on the site as much recently as I'm used to. So here are some of my views on recent events. And yes, it's highly arrogant to think someone actually cares.

Dead happy about the result in Wigan and I thought that in patches we played pretty good football. This has been theme though in Blackburn and Sunderland game as well. This time we managed to kill the game off though. Having said that, I'm still not happy with three defensive midfielders formation. Granted, two of our last three goals in league have come from them BUT the huge gap between attack and midfield is still there.

Can't really blame Mancini as such for our inability to score from point blank range and the FACT is that as we speak we ARE fourth in table which was the aim in the beginning of the season. Still, I felt that what we really needed was another top centerforward and a central playmaker. I feel that it's the lack of players on those two positions that is haunting us right now. Don't think someone like Dzeko would've failed to score from the chances we created against Blackburn for instance. Or Sunderland for that matter.

Three defensive midfielders would be reasonable IF we could move as a team but right now they are bunch of individuals going forward, everyone doing their own thing. I feel that only AJ has shown signs of being able to click with both attackers and holding midfielders. I fully expected Silva to struggle for good few months but it seems that Premier League has really shocked him.

Thing that has made me really happy is the way our central defence is working this season. I felt in the summer that we might need a world class centerback but Kolo has stepped up his game and honestly, Kompany has been one of the best centerbacks in the league so far this season. Granted, they are helped by very defensive midfield but I feel that they are gelling so well that platform for more adventurous midfield is already there.

Regarding Adebayor, when I read the interview where he said that he felt after the shootings in ACN, football has become secondary thing in his life, we should've got rid of him. Without an exception when players start talking crap like that, their career takes a nosedive. And Adebayor wasn't exactly hardest working individual in squad before. I'd suggest we sell him as soon as we can and pay whatever selling club wants for premium centerforward in january.

But, as said above, we are 4th right now and it's definitely not all doom and gloom. We just NEED to start with more positive outlook in the future. With this current formation we will never consistently dominate against weaker opposition.

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

I'd agree with a lot of this. On the surface, sitting in fourth with an away win in the Europa already gained, which should see us participating into the new year, is smashing and yet there is something deeply unimpressive about it all. Frustrating to see such dreary unimaginative performances and team selections when we have such attacking talent.
I'm not sure I see that Silva is 'struggling' though. ok he hasn't set the place alight yet but he's done ok. I worry that it will become self fulfilling if people keep saying it too often.

[sandman]

I'd agree with a lot of this. On the surface, sitting in fourth with an away win in the Europa already gained, which should see us participating into the new year, is smashing and yet there is something deeply unimpressive about it all. Frustrating to see such dreary unimaginative performances and team selections when we have such attacking talent.
I'm not sure I see that Silva is 'struggling' though. ok he hasn't set the place alight yet but he's done ok. I worry that it will become self fulfilling if people keep saying it too often.

This

Plus I think Milner is able to click with both attackers and holding midfielders, not his best game at Wigan but then he wasnt a detriment to the overall performance?

[mr_nool]

OK, so we're in fourth, but we're just as many points from the bottom of the table as from the top. We are also as many points from the 16th place as we are from the second ...

I.E. checking league position already is a bit pointless. I'm bitterly disappointed by the Sunderland and Blackburn results. Those sort of games we need to win if we are to compete for Champions League or better. I hope we will have learnt our lessons from those two games.

[Blue Since 76]

I disagree about the three defensive midfielders. De Jong obviously is, but at Villa, Barry was much more attacking, it's only for England and City he's had more defensive duties. Yaya is clearly a box to box midfielder who just needs to get up to premier league pace. From the goals they've both got, it's clear they're not just sitting back. I think the old fashioned term for them is 'midfielders', when they were expected to attack and defend. Yaya looks to me like a younger Vieira or K*&ne and I don't think anyone would have described them as anything but top class midfielders.

I think the problem with goals stems from the missing players - if you want to play the system we are, you need attacking fullbacks. He bought two, but we haven't really seen them yet. When they are back, I think you'll see a big difference in the style of play. Against Wigan, Tevez was shouting at Richards after he'd shot from about 30 yards, because Richards hadn't gone forward to either give him an option or at least move the defence around a bit.

If Balotelli was available (or Ade for that matter), it would allow them to be the front point of the attack and give the option of allowing Tevez to drop deeper.

Add to that Silva who is starting to look more the part with every game and I don't think there's any cause for concern. If we can avoid losing to Chelsea and stay within a few points of 3rd till the end of October, I'll be happy, as I think we'll get better as the season goes on.

We were the better side against Sunderland, Blackburn and Wigan, but due to freak misses, goalkeeping errors and great goalkeeping displays by the opposition, we only got 4 points. These things happen. The rags only got 2 points against Fulham and Everton and couldn't beat a Championship quality side in the Champions League, yet taggart doesn't appear high up the list of managers to be sacked. Ignore the media campaign, we can all see where we're heading.

[Douglas Higginbottom]

Much of the comments I can go along with but as with others the concept of 3 defensive midfield players I think is a myth. Yaya and Barry were not playing as defensive midfield players but regular midfield players.The fact that they arguably don't get forward quite enough to bridge the "gap" is down to the caution Mancini still builds into the team play and especially as they all get used to each other and before we get all the players fit and playing.

The other thing is the we are 4th fact. It really makes me laugh when somebody churns out a statistic or whatever when it suits an argument but would overlook it when it doesnt or find a different argument to use.I wonder what the point would have been before the Wigan game when we were in 13th position? Of course we are 4th now but it's after just 5 games for god's sake and it's fairly meaningless at this stage so let's look again after say 10 games.

[Blue Since 76]

Much of the comments I can go along with but as with others the concept of 3 defensive midfield players I think is a myth. Yaya and Barry were not playing as defensive midfield players but regular midfield players.The fact that they arguably don't get forward quite enough to bridge the "gap" is down to the caution Mancini still builds into the team play and especially as they all get used to each other and before we get all the players fit and playing.

The other thing is the we are 4th fact. It really makes me laugh when somebody churns out a statistic or whatever when it suits an argument but would overlook it when it doesnt or find a different argument to use.I wonder what the point would have been before the Wigan game when we were in 13th position? Of course we are 4th now but it's after just 5 games for god's sake and it's fairly meaningless at this stage so let's look again after say 10 games.

Before the game on Radio 5 they were saying the pressure was on Mancini as the owners would have expected more than 5 points and 13th place. Don't recall them mentioning once we'd won.

At the moment, you can take the view that we're only 7 points behind Chelsea, with the opportunity to reduce that to 4 on Saturday. Or you can say we're only 7 points ahead of West Ham and that could be 4 by Saturday night. Meaningless so early in the season.

[Ted Hughes]

I don't agree that we're playing with 3 defensive midfielders but we're not playing with any real attacking ones either bar Silva or AJ. Barry, Yaya & Milner are alrounders who do a bit of everything & are playing as such but, naturally, don't get forward as well as specialist attacking midfielders would. There, & our final ball, lies the problem imo. I think Mancini wants them to get forward though & succeeded 2nd half, so it lessened the problem.

If we'd lost or drawn at Wigan it would have been a big problem but we got away with it & at times played pretty well. What really has me almost punching the walls in frustratation though, is when I see, EVERY WEEK, teams like the rags scoring piss simple goals just by playing basic straightforward English style football & we can't do it even as a plan B. Their winner v scousers came from a cross by John O fucking Shea landing right on Berbatov's head. How many times do we produce that even from SWP or AJ? NEVER. Rags do it almost every game. They win stuff. Chelsea do it too. They win stuff. Arsenal are trying to do it as they don't win stuff.

Whatever team or formation we pick, not every goal has to have 20 sliderule passes & go through the middle, in fact most don't. If we learn to do the simple stuff properly & add it to our quality passing game we wil be unstoppable but at the moment we are genuinely the worst team in the Premier league at any kind of crossing/delivery of the ball, low or high. It's ridiculous & should be sorted out. If other teams have that ability in their armoury & we don't, they are better than us, simple.

[Blue Since 76]

I don't agree that we're playing with 3 defensive midfielders but we're not playing with any real attacking ones either bar Silva or AJ. Barry, Yaya & Milner are alrounders who do a bit of everything & are playing as such but, naturally, don't get forward as well as specialist attacking midfielders would. There, & our final ball, lies the problem imo. I think Mancini wants them to get forward though & succeeded 2nd half, so it lessened the problem.

If we'd lost or drawn at Wigan it would have been a big problem but we got away with it & at times played pretty well. What really has me almost punching the walls in frustratation though, is when I see, EVERY WEEK, teams like the rags scoring piss simple goals just by playing basic straightforward English style football & we can't do it even as a plan B. Their winner v scousers came from a cross by John O fucking Shea landing right on Berbatov's head. How many times do we produce that even from SWP or AJ? NEVER. Rags do it almost every game. They win stuff. Chelsea do it too. They win stuff. Arsenal are trying to do it as they don't win stuff.

Whatever team or formation we pick, not every goal has to have 20 sliderule passes & go through the middle, in fact most don't. If we learn to do the simple stuff properly & add it to our quality passing game we wil be unstoppable but at the moment we are genuinely the worst team in the Premier league at any kind of crossing/delivery of the ball, low or high. It's ridiculous & should be sorted out. If other teams have that ability in their armoury & we don't, they are better than us, simple.

There's no point crossing in the air to Tevez though. Ade's not the best, but does get some and I don't know enough about Mario to see if he would be the answer. Jo gets lower when he jumps, so there's no point crossing to him, which only leaves RSC. Assuming someone could carry him out to the penalty spot without him hurting himself, he has shown nothing in the few minutes we've seen him that suggests he would cause a decent defence any problems. For the moment therefore, I think it's slide rule passing, which could cause us the problems Arsenal sometimes have, where you think if they had a big man in the box, they'd beat everyone.

[brite blu sky]

I don't agree that we're playing with 3 defensive midfielders but we're not playing with any real attacking ones either bar Silva or AJ. Barry, Yaya & Milner are alrounders who do a bit of everything & are playing as such but, naturally, don't get forward as well as specialist attacking midfielders would. There, & our final ball, lies the problem imo. I think Mancini wants them to get forward though & succeeded 2nd half, so it lessened the problem.

If we'd lost or drawn at Wigan it would have been a big problem but we got away with it & at times played pretty well. What really has me almost punching the walls in frustratation though, is when I see, EVERY WEEK, teams like the rags scoring piss simple goals just by playing basic straightforward English style football & we can't do it even as a plan B. Their winner v scousers came from a cross by John O fucking Shea landing right on Berbatov's head. How many times do we produce that even from SWP or AJ? NEVER. Rags do it almost every game. They win stuff. Chelsea do it too. They win stuff. Arsenal are trying to do it as they don't win stuff.

Whatever team or formation we pick, not every goal has to have 20 sliderule passes & go through the middle, in fact most don't. If we learn to do the simple stuff properly & add it to our quality passing game we wil be unstoppable but at the moment we are genuinely the worst team in the Premier league at any kind of crossing/delivery of the ball, low or high. It's ridiculous & should be sorted out. If other teams have that ability in their armoury & we don't, they are better than us, simple.

Agree completely with Ted.

We do have to be careful not to go ott over two games though. Two unlucky games while key players are still off the pace does not add up to a decent analysis. 9/10 times or more we would beat those teams without the route 1 approach and just by cutting them open. That said Ted's bugbear is something we need to add to our armoury otherwise we will end up like Arsenal.

It is worth pointing out that Adebayor should be the player that is giving us an option, yet we can't trust him. We cant trust Jo, and we cant play RSC for fear of breakage. Mario was injured.
Balotelli will give us something of that danger man when he gets back, but the rest of them are pretty much a shower. I can understand if Bobby is getting fed up with Ade, he is really not standing up to be counted.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

Barry and Toure CAN move forward EVERY NOW AND THEN but what we need imo is attacking player who dominates the central area of that attacking third. None of the three in our central midfield are capable of doing that. It's painfully clear to me now. Whether you want to call them holding midfielders, defensive midfielders or box-to-box midfielders is all the same to me. They just aren't offering enough going forward for me and there's constant HUUUUGGGE gap between attack and midfield.

I don't really understand that critism of pointing out that we are fourth. Regardless of how far away we are from top or bottom, that is where we sit right now. And that's not statistics, it's a fact. If in the end of the season we are sitting fourth but 30 points behind winner, I'll be happy. I never thought we'd be able to mount serious title challenge this season. Top 4 was and is the aim.

Meant to write about UEFA Cup as well in OP. I was happy to see us go for it and being professional in the first game. I have a good feeling about the competition and it could turn out to be our best bet for cup of some sorts. Lack of gelling in squad isn't as bad in Europe as you are being given more room to perform indivdually and games are played in slower pace.

[brite blu sky]

i feel a new 'playmaker' thread coming on...

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

i feel a new 'playmaker' thread coming on...

HAHA

Not until december and next transfer window getting closer.

[eastlands-lostboy]

I certainly agree that the defensive midfield scenario needs to be looked at. The idea of having a squad is to be able to look at the opposition and change your gameplan to suit the situation. A lack of a midfielder who can come up with a dozen or more goals will be a real talking point over the season, when its 0-0 like the sunderland game you need a 25 yard screamer from nowhere to get you three points....Superman comes to mind on the goal tally point, not the 25 yarder. Good post with a lot of very interesting views on the stalemate in the middle.

[brite blu sky]

I certainly agree that the defensive midfield scenario needs to be looked at. The idea of having a squad is to be able to look at the opposition and change your gameplan to suit the situation. A lack of a midfielder who can come up with a dozen or more goals will be a real talking point over the season, when its 0-0 like the sunderland game you need a 25 yard screamer from nowhere to get you three points....Superman comes to mind on the goal tally point, not the 25 yarder. Good post with a lot of very interesting views on the stalemate in the middle.

Again i dont think we should read too much into two games where we were off the pace and unlucky. If it carries on from about now onwards then yes we have a sort of problem.

Kolarov by the way will add the screamer option.. right up to and including 45 yds ! ha ha.

Ted is basically spot on about mixing it up with the direct ball, until we have Balotelli or Ade or even Jo playing at their best it is a bit of a moot point.

There was a thread a while back on Midfield goals.. and some consensus on Milner, Barry, Yaya and Silva all capable of producing six or seven a season. Lampard gets about 9 or 10 in a season ( how many pens ? ) so lets just see how they all get on. Its early days yet.

[Colin the King]

Maybe this is too simplistic a view, but I really think it was the odd circumstances of Sunderland and Blackburn (uncharacteristic mistakes) that saw us drop points rather than the system or the performances. We played pretty good football, dominated in possession and had those mistakes not been made, the likelihood is we'd have won 3-0 and 2-1 or something. It balances out though because we'll get absolutely destroyed, play poorly, and manage to come away with points from other games later on.

Yaya looks to me like more of an attacking midfielder than anything. He has the strength, height and power that maybe deceives it but he spends an awful lot of time in the opposition half, and when he does drop deep, always instinctively spreads the ball forward to get us on the attack again. de Jong is obviously the specialist defensive one- in theory it should limit us having a player who only fulfills one role but he does it so fucking well, he's improved to such an extent over the last 6 months that I'd rate him among the best in the World at what he does. Playing against someone like him is a nightmare, and really frustrating because you can't think even for a second before he's in your face. Barry is sort of a halfway house between the two, he forays forward but not a lot, mops things up around the centre circle and encourages us to push on. Like a lesser Alonso.

Because Mancini is intent on playing with either wide strikers or two centre forwards and no wingers, we're hugely reliant on getting width from the full-backs. Not something I necessarily agree with but it's what he wants to do. Kolarov, from that point of view, is a class above anyone we've used so far in his absence and Boateng I think will be more intelligent than Micah in respect of timing his runs and where to put the ball. So if we've got those two attacking down the wings, we only have Kolo and Kompany and so that's where de Jong and Barry come in, dropping into the empty spaces to make it a back four again. All of a sudden we've got Kolarov, Boateng, Touré, Milner, Silva and Tevez for example in the opposition half and only four in our own. 6 and 4.

Ted's right about the bread and butter stuff though. In fairness we've improved on scoring from set pieces over the last year or so but from open play, I'm scratching my head to think of occasions where a ball was whipped in and we scored from a header. With the inverted winger system that encourages them to come inside on their stronger foot, it seems like Mancini isn't prioritising that which might be a mistake. It'd be nice on occasions to see AJ on the left, Milner on the right, and Santa Cruz or Adebayor right up top, just a different approach. It's much more likely to pay dividends when we're on away trips where playing nice football isn't an option.

[marvin]

The support for Tevez isn't good enough at the moment, but i wouldn't describe City as playing 3 defensive midfielders. Yaya Toure scored a good goal at wigan breaking forward to get on the end of Tevez's cross and he's played some excellent forward passes.

When Kolarov and Boateng get fit, and Balotelli and Adebayor are available we will have more goal scoring power, and we'll be creating more chances. Sounds like Boateng and Adebayor are close

[Ted Hughes]

My point regarding crosses isn't just exclusive to having a big centre forward & crossing in the air, it's regarding any kind of decent ball from wide, put in with quality to any kind of player. We rarely do it at all. A cross can come in along the floor & in the case of other teams, often does. The scorer can be a big striker with a header, a small striker with a header or anybody with a tap in on the ground (or unfortunately, Paul fucking Scholes). The key is the desire to put a decent ball in, not just casually hitting the 1st man or aimlessly whacking it 40 ft above everyones heads even if there's nobody there. Try to put the ball where the players are.

Kolarov & Boateng are, from what I've seen, great crossers of the ball (Boateng put a blinder in for Barry pre season) but imo every player on the team should be capable of, & looking to, put quality in from that position. If quality crosses were normal practice, the complaints about 3 defensive midfielders etc would be mostly irrelevent because those players would go forward a lot more expecting to get on them (like Barry did pre season). The two things sort each other out. We shouldn't have to wait for two fullbacks to get fit in order to produce the quality do something which even I can do. It's not that difficult, or it shouldn't be for a top pro.

[Blue Since 76]

My point regarding crosses isn't just exclusive to having a big centre forward & crossing in the air, it's regarding any kind of decent ball from wide, put in with quality to any kind of player. We rarely do it at all. A cross can come in along the floor & in the case of other teams, often does. The scorer can be a big striker with a header, a small striker with a header or anybody with a tap in on the ground (or unfortunately, Paul fucking Scholes). The key is the desire to put a decent ball in, not just casually hitting the 1st man or aimlessly whacking it 40 ft above everyones heads even if there's nobody there. Try to put the ball where the players are.

Kolarov & Boateng are, from what I've seen, great crossers of the ball (Boateng put a blinder in for Barry pre season) but imo every player on the team should be capable of, & looking to, put quality in from that position. If quality crosses were normal practice, the complaints about 3 defensive midfielders etc would be mostly irrelevent because those players would go forward a lot more expecting to get on them (like Barry did pre season). The two things sort each other out. We shouldn't have to wait for two fullbacks to get fit in order to produce the quality do something which even I can do. It's not that difficult, or it shouldn't be for a top pro.

Whilst I fully agree with your last few words, sadly, it is the case. Micah usually looks like he's never seen a football before, so asking him to pass it more than 2 yds with any degree of accuracy is not going to happen. I'm not happy with Bridge's defending, but at least he got forward, till that stat appeared last year where he hadn't found a blue shirt with a cross and now I'm wondering what he actually brings. We therefore have to wait for two (foreign) fullbacks, as the ones we have aren't good enough with the ball at their feet.