The Mancini Effect

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

It might sound odd to be saying this after just beating Chelsea but Mancini is draining my enthusiasm for City at the moment. I had picked Poznan as the game in Europe I would be going to and was really looking forward to it. But after the WBA game i got to thinking about whether it was worth the effort. There is a reasonable chance we will be all but qualified for the latter stages by then and a quick glance at the fixtures shows games against WBA away and Filth at home in the six days following that trip. I know the Euro away trip is about so much more than just the football, but I suspect that I'd be a little bit miffed to trail all the way to Poland, parting with a ton of the hard earned stuff, to see a half arsed team selected. I'm giving it a miss I think.
Also on the Chelsea game, yes it was great to beat them, and the atmosphere was ace, but they did sort of suit Bobby's counter attacking style. Is anybody convinced that he will change to open up the sides that won't come and have a go. You can't counter attack against a team that hasn't come to attack you in the first place. That side on Saturday had many admirable qualities and I loved DeJong's performance, but it wouldn't scare many teams as an attacking force.
I hope that Boateng's return and the possible appearance of Balotelli will signal a more offensive mind set as Bobby has hinted at when he has his attacking full backs fit, but I'm not sure Mancini has it in him to ditch the conservative 'safety first' attitude, he hasn't shown much appetite for it in all the time he's been here. And if he doesn't, I think it might be his and our downfall. The Chelsea result might be papering over a few of the cracks.

[john@staustell]

You are right Piccs - it IS a little odd.

Seriously - I know your train of thought, but FFS think back will you - this is probably the most exciting time EVER to be a City fan and you are, in effect, yearning for the days of Pearce, Clarke or Ball!

[kinkylola]

Did he choose the right tactics for the match? I'd say yes.
Did we get 3 points from the match? pretty sure we did.

Why should we care if teams see us as an attacking force? Why does it matter if we win every game 1-0 on the back of a solid defence? Do you support city or do you just support the stars? Realize that mancini is selecting teams and tactics with the idea of winning in mind. Don't buy into this media bullshit that we played chelsea at home just wanting "not to lose" ... we played chelsea at their own game and beat them tactically and physically on the field. That is something to be proud of.

Be proud of city and drop this shit attitude. That's really all it is. You're down because the media talk shit about us, oh we're boring, we play 'not to lose' ... it's all just bullshit. You need to be mentally stronger to cope with the pressure that comes with assaulting the institution of the top 4. I would rather have a 'dull' 1-0 win then losing 3-2 to some shit team because we can't defend worth shit, 'oh but at least it was a thriller'.

As an aside, there was absolutely nothing boring about that game with chelsea ... that was an intense physical encounter with some great play from both sides. Man up. Get your head straight. Dare to be different. Choose life. Choose City.

[Renato_CTID]

Would you please remember from how many years Chelsea is a Top Four club and one of the best European clubs? And how many Citizens were injuried last Saturday? The same for me we'll have to pretend much more when all the players will be fit!

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

You are right Piccs - it IS a little odd.

Seriously - I know your train of thought, but FFS think back will you - this is probably the most exciting time EVER to be a City fan and you are, in effect, yearning for the days of Pearce, Clarke or Ball!

I most certainly don't yearn for those days at all.
But I do find it weird that, as you quite rightly say, it should be the most exciting time ever to be a Blue, and yet I feel so apathetic about us. I really am struggling for enthusiasm. I think it's down to Mancini's negative approach, maybe its just me.

[ant london]

You are right Piccs - it IS a little odd.

Seriously - I know your train of thought, but FFS think back will you - this is probably the most exciting time EVER to be a City fan and you are, in effect, yearning for the days of Pearce, Clarke or Ball!

exactly.....I can understand where you're coming from in some ways Roger but FFS...give thy head a wobble fella. This is not the time to start thinking "why bother"

If we start putting the Blackpools, Sunderlands, Newcastles to the sword with any form of consistency (and I'm talking about 1-0 if needs be, just WINNING those games is massive progress IMO) then I'm more than happy for our style to be somewhat prosaic to be honest.

I'm sure more adventure will come in time but honestly I'd rather be in Chelsea's position with trophies than the frustration of being an Arsenal fan being entertained to a fruitless death

[kinkylola]

I just don't understand this mentality.

Winning is the goal, can we agree on that? If you're able to do it with flair, and that suits your team ... great! If you do it through strength and tactics, because that is what your team is best at ... GREAT!

You pick the tactics and players to win, depending on each situation and how it plays into the larger picture. You go out and you win. there is no other consideration. end of.

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

Did he choose the right tactics for the match? I'd say yes.
Did we get 3 points from the match? pretty sure we did.

Why should we care if teams see us as an attacking force? Why does it matter if we win every game 1-0 on the back of a solid defence? Do you support city or do you just support the stars? Realize that mancini is selecting teams and tactics with the idea of winning in mind. Don't buy into this media bullshit that we played chelsea at home just wanting "not to lose" ... we played chelsea at their own game and beat them tactically and physically on the field. That is something to be proud of.

Be proud of city and drop this shit attitude. That's really all it is. You're down because the media talk shit about us, oh we're boring, we play 'not to lose' ... it's all just bullshit. You need to be mentally stronger to cope with the pressure that comes with assaulting the institution of the top 4. I would rather have a 'dull' 1-0 win then losing 3-2 to some shit team because we can't defend worth shit, 'oh but at least it was a thriller'.

As an aside, there was absolutely nothing boring about that game with chelsea ... that was an intense physical encounter with some great play from both sides. Man up. Get your head straight. Dare to be different. Choose life. Choose City.

Well I'll disagree with some of that. I've been used to the media talking shite about us for donkeys' years so that doesn't bother me. I quite like it really.
There was nothing boring about the game with Chelsea if you cared about either side. I loved the physical part of the game, but as a neutral it was a dreary spectacle served up by two incredibly expensively assembled squads.
As for 'picking' the right tactics? Well it's the same negative tactics he has picked all along....it just so happened to suit this game! They weren't specially thought out for Chelsea alone, we got the same dreary crap against Wigan and Sunderland. Why is there this notion that entertainment and winning are mutually exclusive? They aren't. It isn't compulsory to be boring if you want to win.

[dazby]

Gel. We are still gelling. Give it another month Piccsy.

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

Gel. We are still gelling. Give it another month Piccsy.

I've got to be honest Dazby, when Boateng came on for the last few minutes I allowed a shaft of optimism to creep into my mind. Maybe it's right and Mancini has a grand attacking plan with full backs that allow him to start with two (maybe three he said) strikers. Perhaps we've got through this spell with injuries still on the coat tails of the top teams and soon we will see the real Mancini mentality. I hope so because so far it's been stifling.
I've still never got over the game at Arsenal last season when we had a golden chance to win and go above Spurs with our home game with them looming, instead Mancini played for a useless point with one upfront and a packed midfield, that left us needing to win against Tottenham still. I don't think he can help himself.

[blues-clues]

Mancini is now in a results business. Result first style later. Start with the defence and go from there. Not only that but our attacking options have been somewhat limited at the beginning of the season so he has not had much to work with. The partnerships between the attacking midfielders, Tevez and presumably Ballotelli will take longer to establish, in the meantime get everyone into the mentality that we shall not concede and we have a good foundation.
Arsenal won the league with a team that won loads of games 1-0. They can play with a style that everyone loves to watch and many might aspire to but they can win 6-0 one week and then get beaten the next. There may be Arsenal fans who prefer the stylish footie with its inherent risks but I suspect most of them would like to win something soon!

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

Mancini is now in a results business. Result first style later. Start with the defence and go from there. Not only that but our attacking options have been somewhat limited at the beginning of the season so he has not had much to work with. The partnerships between the attacking midfielders, Tevez and presumably Ballotelli will take longer to establish, in the meantime get everyone into the mentality that we shall not concede and we have a good foundation.
Arsenal won the league with a team that won loads of games 1-0. They can play with a style that everyone loves to watch and many might aspire to but they can win 6-0 one week and then get beaten the next. There may be Arsenal fans who prefer the stylish footie with its inherent risks but I suspect most of them would like to win something soon!

Again you talk as though style and winning don't go together. They can...... and usually do.
We have a galaxy of attacking stars but Bobby doesn't use them.
Yes it's a results business, but the same stubbornly negative tactics will come unstuck on occasions, it has done already. It far from guarantees results.

[john@staustell]

Gel. We are still gelling. Give it another month Piccsy.

Media cliché for sure, but true. No Kolarov or Boateng (much) (or even Bridge), and still incorporating perhaps the biggest change - introducing Yaya. And Balotelli will open up a whole new world.

[blues-clues]

Mancini is now in a results business. Result first style later. Start with the defence and go from there. Not only that but our attacking options have been somewhat limited at the beginning of the season so he has not had much to work with. The partnerships between the attacking midfielders, Tevez and presumably Ballotelli will take longer to establish, in the meantime get everyone into the mentality that we shall not concede and we have a good foundation.
Arsenal won the league with a team that won loads of games 1-0. They can play with a style that everyone loves to watch and many might aspire to but they can win 6-0 one week and then get beaten the next. There may be Arsenal fans who prefer the stylish footie with its inherent risks but I suspect most of them would like to win something soon!

Again you talk as though style and winning don't go together. They can...... and usually do.
We have a galaxy of attacking stars but Bobby doesn't use them.
Yes it's a results business, but the same stubbornly negative tactics will come unstuck on occasions, it has done already. It far from guarantees results.

No I dont! I just said right now results are more important to Mancini. He is building a team, it will take a while but in the short term he needs the players to understand exactly what he wants from them and he probably takes the view that he cant teach them everything at once.

[kinkylola]

Again you talk as though style and winning don't go together. They can...... and usually do.
We have a galaxy of attacking stars but Bobby doesn't use them.
Yes it's a results business, but the same stubbornly negative tactics will come unstuck on occasions, it has done already. It far from guarantees results.

It far from guarantees results ... playing like arsenal doesn't guarantee results either. The most important thing is having a system, and sticking to it so that all players are comfortable performing within it's boundaries. I do not agree that the tactics have been the same every game ... and which of the attacking luminaries at our disposal would you use that mancini does not use?

Our system happens to be based on 3 solid midfielders. Barry and Yaya are by no means just "defensive midfielders" Firstly, Yaya is bustling up and down the field and is just as much an 'attacking' player as scholes or giggs when they play in the middle for united. The difference is he gets back more and puts in a shift. Barry sits deep and sprays balls around like a pirlo type player, and de jong is a destroyer. Infront of them we have the options so far of AJ, SWP, Milner, Silva, Tevez, Adebayor, Jo and soon balotelli ... the players are being utilized ... they are not being stiffled ... infact our "creative" players have more license to be creative because they are being supported by a hard, strong, midfield unit.

Maybe you are hung up because you hold our system up to arsenal or united and say, well we don't play as pretty as them, we're too negative. I'm sorry but I don't buy that. Yaya and Barry will create tons and more importantly they will feed and support more creative players like AJ, Silva, balotelli and tevez.

I have no worries what so ever that when we get into gear and we really get running with the system we use, not only will we be totally solid at the back, we will be scoring upwards of 2-3 goals per game. And the goals will not come because we bombed at the other team at break neck speed with our front 5, it will be because we picked them apart intelligently and our creative players are unshackled.

In short ... it's not that our players need to gel with one another, they need to gel with the system. You will see. I won't expect a "you were right kinky," but I'll know you're thinking it. ;)

[Beeks]

One of the most successful managers in recent history sets his team up in exactly the same way..from the back up..and do you really think Chelsea fans..after a 50+ year wait for silverware really gave a fuck how they won?

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

Our team set up as it is now is NOT creative. We created very little against Chelsea. I appreciate that few teams do, but neither did we at Sunderland or Wigan. That surely has to change. I would have utilised Ade, SWP and Johnson more, maybe even Jo. As we are at the moment we have seven of our ten outfield players essentially defensively minded,arguably eight depending on how you view Milner. On Saturday the only two genuine flair attacking players were Tevez and Silva. That being the case we can't be that surprised that we look so blunt most of the time. Tevez is without doubt a bigger danger when he has somebody to play off.

[sandman]

Can we expect to be particularly creative yet given that we are only just starting to get the basics right?

City are doing exactly what Chelsea did 5 years ago pretty much down to the T, it was massively unpopular, it was extremely unattractive and it was highly successful. It will work for City but it will be a much longer journey because we have a much greater distance to climb, that means we will also require a much greater patience.

People need more faith, they are so used to failure that it has become an expectation rathger than a risk.

I love Mancini, I love City, I love the fact that we are in such an amazing place at the moment, and I love the fact that our future is inevitable.

[blues-clues]

Our team set up as it is now is NOT creative. We created very little against Chelsea. I appreciate that few teams do, but neither did we at Sunderland or Wigan. That surely has to change. I would have utilised Ade, SWP and Johnson more, maybe even Jo. As we are at the moment we have seven of our ten outfield players essentially defensively minded,arguably eight depending on how you view Milner. On Saturday the only two genuine flair attacking players were Tevez and Silva. That being the case we can't be that surprised that we look so blunt most of the time. Tevez is without doubt a bigger danger when he has somebody to play off.

Piccs we all want to see City turn over the weaker teams but every player that turned out against Chelsea played their role in defence. We created few chances against Chelsea but they are the best team in the country, if we had played two more attacking players who did not do their bit in defence two things would have happened, firstly we would have created more chances but who is to say scored any more goals and secondly they would definitely have created more chances. As it was they hit the bar and had more shots on goal than we did so the chances are with more attacking players we would not have won.

I agree against weaker teams I want to see more chances than we had against Chelsea but against weaker teams we have had more chances and will continue to do so as the team gets used to Mancini's instructions. We do need someone who can take a few more of those chances though! Against Blackburn we had 20 attempts at goal compared to their 4. At Sunderland it was not so dramatic we had more attempts on target than they did but not in total.

If your point is that Mancini is concentrating on the defence, you are right. If your point is that we should be able to adapt our system to the strengths and particularly the weaknesses of the oposition, you are right. If your point is that we should play stylish expansive football then your opinion will be challenged by those who see winning as more important at this stage in the clubs development. The Mancini way is to build a solid defnce first and go from there. When we have won the Premier League a few times, have a few cups too and are competing in the Champions League we can call for more creativity as well as results but by then we will be attracting the type of players and perhaps, if we need it, a manager who can give us both.

[Ted Hughes]

I believe that Mancini's whole existence as City manager has been leading up to this point. His overly negative tactics last season v defensively weak rags & a crippled, crap Arsenal (which may have cost us a cup & 4th place), his overly negative team selections & his daft team v WBA were all part of the plan; to eventually put in a performance like last Saturday's v a top team. He's been establishing a routine & a method. Now he's almost there. Whether he's right or wrong to do it that way is open to debate but it's almost done.

Imo (& I'm sure Mancini's) there's still room for improvement defensively (as we were very very lucky at set plays) but in other aspects, it's hard to imagine any team, ever, defending better against a team of that quality. Will the same performance beat Newcastle? I doubt it, we'll have to be better in attack. Same with many teams as the season goes on, but if we want to win the Champion's League next year, we need to produce performances like Saturday & we can't learn to do it next season & hope to get a result at the Bernabau, we have to learn it & practice it before then ie; last season & now. We EXPECT to be playing there next season & this is the prep work.

Imo, there has to be some point where the accent starts to go onto attack. It has to be soon or we won't succeed, as teams will stifle us & even nick embarrassing wins from set pieces. If we don't succeed Mancini will go, so there has to be attacking improvement, he's not stupid. Even if we win stuff; if we play shit football, the Sheikh will eventually change the manager; you don't spend billions to be bored. By that time though we'd be an established, winning club. It's a matter of time before we see the kind of football most of us want to see, one way or another.