On The Training Ground

[Douglas Higginbottom]

We often hear pundits/commentators and even players saying that's come from the training ground or we have been practicing that on the training ground. Like we did last night from AJ talking about the goal he scored. I have always wondered about that especially when it comes to things like defending Stoke's long throws or maybe "moves" from corners and free kicks.

BBurn I am sure are supposed to practice their free kicks all week if we believe what we are told. But do they really?

It was the comments about AJ's goal which prompted me posting this because if they have been working on that move specifically it must have been on days when I wasn't there.Of course they practice attacking plays and usually for at least a few minutes every day but never is it in an 11 a side match scenario and also it is done without a defence in opposition! Is that unusual? Maybe it's just me but if you are going to really practice something it would be best to do it in circumstances as close to the real thing as possible.

Similarly with corners. Great care is taken on where each player should stand within the zonal system and a few corners ( and/or free kicks) are sent over but not with any opposition attacking the ball. It surprises me a little as I would expect it to be tested with real attackers intent on scoring or at least really threatening.To see how to react when the ball is played short or long or even if a short ball is played say to the corner of the box.What I see when they look at say corners is Mancini positioning every player and then 2 maybe 3 corners knocked over before they move onto something else.

Of course I don't see all training and I would expect plenty of chat inside about such things on top of what they do on the training ground.Maybe I should get along to a Blackburn training session and see what they do first hand.

[Ted Hughes]

Perhaps they talked about it & the run that Johnson made, rather than actually rehearsing it? It was a great ball & great finish but not very good defending.

[Kladze]

Perhaps they talked about it & the run that Johnson made, rather than actually rehearsing it? It was a great ball & great finish but not very good defending.

That kind of run is VERY difficult to defend against if both run and pass are perfect - which they were.

[Ted Hughes]

Perhaps they talked about it & the run that Johnson made, rather than actually rehearsing it? It was a great ball & great finish but not very good defending.

That kind of run is VERY difficult to defend against if both run and pass are perfect - which they were.

I'd like to see us do it with De Jong on the opposing team.

[Douglas Higginbottom]

Perhaps they talked about it & the run that Johnson made, rather than actually rehearsing it? It was a great ball & great finish but not very good defending.

I have no doubt they will have talked about it and I do see Mancini talking to individuals quite often during attacking plays about their positioning and I assume the runs they make. Just saying that they don't seem to actually do much real matchlike practice on things.

[Dameerto]

concerning Delap's throws, Spurs demonstrated how to defend against them - stick your tallest player inline with the post closest to the throwin and have him rush out to meet the ball as it's being thrown - there's a high percentage probability of him making contact with it (usually Crouch for them). I hope we made notes.

[brite blu sky]

Interesting comments Doug, the only thing i would throw into the mix is that there is a question as to having an idea and knowing your own moves to play out and just leave it at that. Overworking something can have the opposite effect of what is desired, by those involved looking too closely at the detail and so missing the essential awareness of the here and now situation as fluid and reacting to that.

In other words having a general idea could be argued to be enough.

[Fish111]

I've always had my doubts about teams practising moves etc when there is not a chance in hell that you can replicate what the opposition will do as all people will react differently to certain situations. I think you can practice free kicks to a point but even then most teams now just go for the direct approach as defenders are very quick out of the wall and anything too elaborate just makes you look stupid if and when it doesn't come off.
I just assume that training is mainly about staying fit and working on ball control rather than practising 'moves'. All these guys are natural footballers and don't need to be taught how to play the game. They just need to show they are fit and have a great attitude in training and they have half a chance of making the team.

[dazby]

You've really struck upon something there Doug. Why don't teams attack in training using a full field? Work a few moves where players are crystal on where the others are going to be?

Have a word Douglas. :-)

[Douglas Higginbottom]

Fair comments and that's why I wonder about the so called experts who comment so regularly that something has been practiced on the training ground.

[john68]

Some years ago when I used to coach a team, I used to spend time in a classroom discussing little individual moves such as this. It was easier to get the message across and then later we would try stuff out on the pitch with the players minded to what had been discussed.
Some of it was general like speeding up control and pass, one or two touch, moving to create better angles to receive the ball. Had anyone been watching, they wouldn't have been able to identify anything specific, but we knew what we were working on or towards.

I don't know Doug, but do the squad spend time inside where stuff like this would/could be discussed???

[ronk]

I'm with John on that. A lot of moves would tend to look that way. You could work on something tactically and try it a few times in 5 a side. There wouldn't really be much point in practising such a move with 22 players and a full pitch, most wouldn't be doing anything. This would be one for Mancini's moving players around with no ball and video analysis.

I didn't hear Johnson's comments, did he mention Adebayor's role in the move?

[john68]

To expand on this a bit. It is diffiicult to be really specific about the micro strategies of a game because so much is dependant on the way the game flows, where players happen to be and the general mellee and fluidity of the game.

I worked with my full backs overlapping by passing the ball to the winger, who would turn inside, drawing the defender in with him and creating space outside. A backheel into the space would theoretically leave a free path for the overlapper to attack the byline.
Great in theory but wholly dependant on what was going on on the pitch at the time.

The classroom was far better to sort out stuff like this.

[brite blu sky]

I didn't hear Johnson's comments, did he mention Adebayor's role in the move?

Yeah he said, " Ade running into the box was the cue, and when he fell over and the defense were all laughing, that was my cue to run in behind and Yaya was to slot it into me ". He also said they practised it with Jo when Ade had a bad leg.

[getdressedmctavish]

Well here's one in support of us old school lags. The Arsenal defence of Adams,Keon, Bould, Dixon etc used to train under George Graham with professional linesmen in attendance and outnumbered by attackers. Were they any good at defending?

[Douglas Higginbottom]

Some years ago when I used to coach a team, I used to spend time in a classroom discussing little individual moves such as this. It was easier to get the message across and then later we would try stuff out on the pitch with the players minded to what had been discussed.
Some of it was general like speeding up control and pass, one or two touch, moving to create better angles to receive the ball. Had anyone been watching, they wouldn't have been able to identify anything specific, but we knew what we were working on or towards.

I don't know Doug, but do the squad spend time inside where stuff like this would/could be discussed???

I am 100% sure they spend time inside discussing tactical things. Seems logical to try to put those things into practice on the field though and the small pitch games they play don't really lend themselves to it either because the pitch is so small or it's far too congested.

[TimberJoeysChainsaw]

It's an interesting topic and would love to be privvy to the goings on at Carrington. Im sure they'll chat and do video work on every aspect of the game but i've always done things better using the 'Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand.' mantra. Maybe i'm generalising but i think footballers have a short attention span, i know i did when i played and if there was to much standing around or talking i switched off. There was a great quote about Wenger that during Arsenal training he would set up different practices every 8 minutes that would keep the players on there toes and thinking but they were all geared to achieving the same goal of his session. Obviously the nature of football is spontanious but i think there is something to be said for doing a bit of shadow work with the whole team and to develop 'patterns' that could happen during a game.

[the_georgian_genius]

The thing is you can't really practice stuff like AJ's goal last night, the situation and the opposistion will be different on a real match day as oppose to training and you don't know what will happen. It's all about instinct and using your initative.

[dazby]

That's like saying in grid iron you cant practice moves as the opposition is different every week. Sure you can't control the defence but you can develop a pattern for attack so that in certain situations you can expect players to be in certain positions.

[the_georgian_genius]

That's like saying in grid iron you cant practice moves as the opposition is different every week. Sure you can't control the defence but you can develop a pattern for attack so that in certain situations you can expect players to be in certain positions.

Of course, but on that AJ goal last night as an example it is all down to the individuals on a matchday imo.