Flexibility in formation

[MaineRoadMemories]

With our squad I think we are in a wonderful position to play both 4-3-3 and 4-4-2 equally well. I agree with Mancini that our starting formation should be the 4-3-3 but against teams that can effectively defend against this formation and reduce us to taking pot shots from 25 yards we should mix it up after 65-70mins mark and go to 4-4-2.

If our starting line-up is arguably this:

-----------------ADE/BALO-----------------------

----------TEVEZ------------SIVLA-----------------

----BARRY--------DE JONG--------YAYA---------

KOLAROV----KOMPANY---KOLO----BOATENG--

---------------------HART-------------------------

If its not working why can't we take off either SILVA, DE JONG and BARRY and go out and out 4-4-2 with width. I think both Milner and Yaya are strong enough to keep hold of the midfield and if a team is defending on its 18 yard box anyway there will be no need for De Jong and Barry.

---------ADE/BALO-----------TEVEZ--------------

--JOHNSON-----MILNER----YAYA--------SWP---

KOLAROV----KOMPANY---KOLO----BOATENG--

---------------------HART-------------------------

I'm surprised we haven't tried this out this season albeit with different players who are fit at the time.

Would be interested to hear thoughts on why we haven't changed formation this season when Plan A isn't working.

[brite blu sky]

A couple of things to throw in.. ( as im coming from the idea we dont need to go 4-4-2 ).

One is with Kolarov and Boateng overlapping then what is the need for bringing wingers on ?

Second is that for me if it has got to 60 mins mark and we haven't cracked open a back to walls defence then there is basically something wrong that should have been addressed by the 40 min mark imo.

So im trying to imagine in my head what sort of set up would allow the players on the pitch to change formation without changing personnel initially.

The idea i think is that we change to get two strikers in the box.. my ideal would be Ade and Balotelli. So if we are talking about an unambitious opposition here then say sacrifice Barry in your first line up for the extra striker and make Yaya drop back a bit and ask Tevez and Silva to do a bit of wing work each.. Kolarov and Boateng of course are still there.
Formation would be a kind of 2- 4 -2 -2

[ronk]

Barry is box to box, you'd want him in a 442, I'd keep him. Bringing on 2 wingers is a lot for a tactical shift, reducing options elsewhere for injuries/fresh legs.

[Dameerto]

Mancini's schemes rely on one sub at the most, the versatility is in the players on the pitch. He generally takes off the weak link for his tactical sub - either in performance or fitness terms then adopts a 'best fit' approach if circumstances call for a change in formation. Assuming no injuries, he'll make a further sub late in the game as well (usually to give someone a little match time)

[Grob]

The long and the short of it is that if Mancinis plan A doesnt work, then we are not going to win the game. And thats a piss poor position for a team of our calibre to be in.

Flexibility, there is none.

[the_georgian_genius]

The long and the short of it is that if Mancinis plan A doesnt work, then we are not going to win the game. And thats a piss poor position for a team of our calibre to be in.

Flexibility, there is none.

When have we had a situation that can prove that?

[LookMumImOnMCF.net]

I'm not sure our stating line up is the first one you posted. It appears to be slightly too adventurous.

[Grob]

The long and the short of it is that if Mancinis plan A doesnt work, then we are not going to win the game. And thats a piss poor position for a team of our calibre to be in.

Flexibility, there is none.

When have we had a situation that can prove that?

Thursday

[the_georgian_genius]

The long and the short of it is that if Mancinis plan A doesnt work, then we are not going to win the game. And thats a piss poor position for a team of our calibre to be in.

Flexibility, there is none.

When have we had a situation that can prove that?

Thursday

and what would your plan B have been if you were in charge?

[brite blu sky]

The long and the short of it is that if Mancinis plan A doesnt work, then we are not going to win the game. And thats a piss poor position for a team of our calibre to be in.

Flexibility, there is none.

Sorry Grobster.. that just comes across as if you are pissed off.. what's really on your mind ?

[Im_Spartacus]

The long and the short of it is that if Mancinis plan A doesnt work, then we are not going to win the game. And thats a piss poor position for a team of our calibre to be in.

Flexibility, there is none.

When have we had a situation that can prove that?

Thursday

lovin your work there

[Ted Hughes]

The long and the short of it is that if Mancinis plan A doesnt work, then we are not going to win the game. And thats a piss poor position for a team of our calibre to be in.

Flexibility, there is none.

When have we had a situation that can prove that?

Thursday

lovin your work there

Add Blackburn & Sunderland to that, along with Stoke and quite a few other teams from last season. We currently have one way of playing, whatever the formation. It's also the lack of attacking purpose which is a huge problem not just the individuals involved & tbf Mancini is suggesting today that he agrees with both those ideas.

The point regarding 'why have wingers if you have overlapping fullbacks?' ; the word 'wingers' is imo oversimplifying the position. It could be any player going wide & threatening to put a cross or pass in. If you watch the rags in the past, at their best, the wide player would attack the fullback but some twat like Neville would be sprinting past & the whole purpose of both would be to deliver a quality ball into the box, nothing else. If that failed a few times they'd sometimes get a 3rd player going out there & there'd be 3 to worry about, all threatening to get a ball in or attack the penalty area, when suddely they square it to some twat like Scholes who smacks it in the net or yet another twat like John O'Shea trots up behind & picks out an unopposed cross to the far post & some git like Fletcher heads it in.

The argument about how there's 'nobody there to pass to' won't wash if we start delivering quality; they'll have no choice but to be there or be dropped. Why would they be there now if the ball never comes? It's about having a series of plans for scoring & together picturing an end product, rather than just knocking the ball around nicely & hoping someone comes up with something. we do that superbly but we don't have a reason for doing it. If plan 'A' works in a game then fine but if it doesn't, we need to adapt.

It's dead simple & we should be doing it in every game as well as our midfield passing game, there's room for both. Today the rags largely failed to do it & they looked impotent & failed to score.

[carl_feedthegoat]

The long and the short of it is that if Mancinis plan A doesnt work, then we are not going to win the game. And thats a piss poor position for a team of our calibre to be in.

Flexibility, there is none.

When have we had a situation that can prove that?

Thursday

lovin your work there

Add Blackburn & Sunderland to that, along with Stoke and quite a few other teams from last season. We currently have one way of playing, whatever the formation. It's also the lack of attacking purpose which is a huge problem not just the individuals involved & tbf Mancini is suggesting today that he agrees with both those ideas.

The point regarding 'why have wingers if you have overlapping fullbacks?' ; the word 'wingers' is imo oversimplifying the position. It could be any player going wide & threatening to put a cross or pass in. If you watch the rags in the past, at their best, the wide player would attack the fullback but some twat like Neville would be sprinting past & the whole purpose of both would be to deliver a quality ball into the box, nothing else. If that failed a few times they'd sometimes get a 3rd player going out there & there'd be 3 to worry about, all threatening to get a ball in or attack the penalty area, when suddely they square it to some twat like Scholes who smacks it in the net or yet another twat like John O'Shea trots up behind & picks out an unopposed cross to the far post & some git like Fletcher heads it in.

The argument about how there's 'nobody there to pass to' won't wash if we start delivering quality; they'll have no choice but to be there or be dropped. Why would they be there now if the ball never comes? It's about having a series of plans for scoring & together picturing an end product, rather than just knocking the ball around nicely & hoping someone comes up with something. we do that superbly but we don't have a reason for doing it. If plan 'A' works in a game then fine but if it doesn't, we need to adapt.

It's dead simple & we should be doing it in every game as well as our midfield passing game, there's room for both. Today the rags largely failed to do it & they looked impotent & failed to score.

Impotent and Twat are the key words here describing a fucking rag.

I like it.

[Im_Spartacus]

you could apply your opening comments to pretty much any game we haven't won, but i'd like to add Arsenal and Tottenham to the list to show why we are in the Europa league, and not the CL - and when it boils down to it THAT is the key problem.

With the quality we have now, we will win many games by default, simply by having the better talent in the side. However there will be occasions when the opposition manager simply sets his team out to stop us playing or to just defend, in which case we will struggle.

We seem to be completely unable to break organised teams down, and regardless of the formation employed, Mancini is showing a big big flaw which for me means he will never ever be the manager to win the league for us, but by sheer ability the squad should get him into the top 4 and the promised land.

I am genuinely not sure that Mancini ever even intended to challenge for the title despite his suggestions pre-season, as surely he can see how limited he causes our team to be. All well and good beating Chelsea, but if you can't score 2 vs an abject Blackburn at home, how can you seriously expect to challenge

I think we will beat Newcastle tomorrow on the sheer excess of talent we have, but if Hughton has any sense he will pack the midfield with battlers, and play a very defensive game based on making us get the ball out wide knowing there is no cunt on the end of the cross. If he doesnt, he doesnt deserve to be managing in the PL, and if he succeeds and Mancini fails to combat that tactic, by the same token, Mancini has to be questioned.

We can't keep hoping for moments of magic from one or two players

[brite blu sky]

Agree with all this from Ted and 78.. all bang on the money imo.. err apart from a couple of wee points.. Mancini hasn't had what he wants on the pitch yet. Also we were definately not up to speed in the early games.

Rags got their arse ripped out v the Makem in the first half and got nowhere in the second. Sunderland were lucky against us. end of.

That said your points about passing the ball around without end product are more than justified. Ive been saying it about Barca for over a year now.. and the basic idea that the talent prevails more times than not is exactly the same. However.. imo it is too soon to be judging this in the way that you are.. you may well be right, but then you may well be wrong and Mancini may be learning as much as he is trying to develop something that he knows. The question is ultimately about his intelligence in football terms.. and to a large extent his wit.

Personallhy I am undecided.. but i do have a sense that he came to England to learn as much as to lay down a system he knows.

You lot are coming across as purely critical of Mancini.. if so i wish you would just come out and say it. You have good points but i cant see how you can be sure of what you are saying.

[Im_Spartacus]

Agree with all this from Ted and 78.. all bang on the money imo.. err apart from a couple of wee points.. Mancini hasn't had what he wants on the pitch yet. Also we were definately not up to speed in the early games.

Rags got their arse ripped out v the Makem in the first half and got nowhere in the second. Sunderland were lucky against us. end of.

That said your points about passing the ball around without end product are more than justified. Ive been saying it about Barca for over a year now.. and the basic idea that the talent prevails more times than not is exactly the same. However.. imo it is too soon to be judging this in the way that you are.. you may well be right, but then you may well be wrong and Mancini may be learning as much as he is trying to develop something that he knows. The question is ultimately about his intelligence in football terms.. and to a large extent his wit.

Personallhy I am undecided.. but i do have a sense that he came to England to learn as much as to lay down a system he knows.

You lot are coming across as purely critical of Mancini.. if so i wish you would just come out and say it. You have good points but i cant see how you can be sure of what you are saying.

Not me, I have serious reservations about Bobby on a number of levels, notably tactically and motivationally. However, I cannot argue against the performances vs Liverpool and Chelsea which really sort of shoot my arguments down.

I was also reasonably happy with the Juve game, however feel that many on here are blinkered about Juventus as a big name in European football, rather than remembering that at this precise moment in time, the team that we dominated last weekend are much much bigger and better, and that Juve were a very ordinary side.

We play Newcastle at home and Blackpool away next. I have a feeling we will both on the strength of talent alone. It is almost as though I just think we will muddle through somehow against teams who are defensive, rather than being truly confident that the manager has it in him to outwit other managers who deploy a more defensive game than him.

[Ted Hughes]

Agree with all this from Ted and 78.. all bang on the money imo.. err apart from a couple of wee points.. Mancini hasn't had what he wants on the pitch yet. Also we were definately not up to speed in the early games.

Rags got their arse ripped out v the Makem in the first half and got nowhere in the second. Sunderland were lucky against us. end of.

That said your points about passing the ball around without end product are more than justified. Ive been saying it about Barca for over a year now.. and the basic idea that the talent prevails more times than not is exactly the same. However.. imo it is too soon to be judging this in the way that you are.. you may well be right, but then you may well be wrong and Mancini may be learning as much as he is trying to develop something that he knows. The question is ultimately about his intelligence in football terms.. and to a large extent his wit.

Personallhy I am undecided.. but i do have a sense that he came to England to learn as much as to lay down a system he knows.

You lot are coming across as purely critical of Mancini.. if so i wish you would just come out and say it. You have good points but i cant see how you can be sure of what you are saying.

Not me, I have serious reservations about Bobby on a number of levels, notably tactically and motivationally. However, I cannot argue against the performances vs Liverpool and Chelsea which really sort of shoot my arguments down.

I was also reasonably happy with the Juve game, however feel that many on here are blinkered about Juventus as a big name in European football, rather than remembering that at this precise moment in time, the team that we dominated last weekend are much much bigger and better, and that Juve were a very ordinary side.

We play Newcastle at home and Blackpool away next. I have a feeling we will both on the strength of talent alone. It is almost as though I just think we will muddle through somehow against teams who are defensive, rather than being truly confident that the manager has it in him to outwit other managers who deploy a more defensive game than him.

I am critical of Mancini & a lot of the players equally but that doesn't mean I don't believe they can do it. Quite the opposite; I believe they CAN do it, which is why I'm so pissed off watching us fannying around when we're capable of so much more. If I was Adam Johson or SWP I wouldn't need the manager to tell me to get a quality ball in when I get the chance or to get on the end of it if I was Adebayor but equally I think Mancini has spent too long allowing that kind of sloppy wastefulness to continue. I'm sure Mancini & the players are good enough (although we may have to swap the whingers for non whingers), I just wish they'd fucking get on with it because we could do some real damage this season if they all pull their fingers out.

[brite blu sky]

Mancini has said on a couple of occasions that he wants an attacking line up, most recently he said something like he wants to field 2 or 3 attackers. Now whether he means Milner - Tevez - Silva by that or Balotelli - Tevez - Adebayor is yet to be seen.. but we are i think going to have to be patient. Eventually we should be able to do a lot of damage.. but the wait might be pretty frustrating.