Munichs (rant warning)

[Goataldo]

I doubt this hasn't been discussed here before, but I don't remember/didn't see it, and it remains an issue IMO, 'specially with the derby thoughts stirring.

What are your opinions on referring to the scum as 'Munichs' and singing songs to that effect?

I find it crass, uncomfortable and a bit embarrassing. It's akin to singing songs about Hillsborough, or Bradford - taking the piss out of dead loved ones is just a little bit snide I reckon, especially if they died in a disaster. And that's without even mentioning Frank Swift. Similarly, I once had to shout down some massive brutish nobhead when we played Spurs (and I fecking hate Spurs) cos he was singing 'Spurs are on their way to Belsen, Hitler's gonna gas em again'. It's not like i haven't got a sense of humour - I have and it's generally pretty cruel. Oh and before anyone says it I'm comparing the Munich crash to the Holocaust, I'm not; I'm just talking about 'dead folks'.

I can't join in with songs that have 'Munich' in. I don't sing the Tevez song (did sing the previous one though!). 'You Dirty Munich Bastards' is not in my repertoire. In the Ryan Giggs song, I have to end with 'He's a Fucking bastard' as an alternative - because I'm nice like. If a favourite band brought out a song with Munich in the lyrics, I'd probably just hum along on instinct. I have blue mates I respect, who call them munichs as a matter of course - I don't mention it, I just accept it as a lost cause. Like when an old bid talks about his local 'paki shop' or 'chinky', whilst having the the utmost respect for the people that work there. People pass this onto their kids and it makes me feel like Jeremy pissing Kyle. Which is obviously not a very nice feeling.

In the very least we should concentrate any Munich stuff on the disgusting way Manure (allegedly?) treated some of the victims. I had my ear bent by some old geezer in a pub once about Albert Scanlon (hope I got that right), talking about how United binned him off after the crash as he wasn't certain to recover and play, and gave him no support or recompense. He told me how blue and red cabbies used to give him free lifts round town when he was looking for work. But that was from a time when people had a bit more respect eh.

How do we solve it? Or do you not see it as a problem?

[Wonderwall]

Agree totally in principal mate, however, when I am being faced off by those Neanderthals giving me utter crap and making jibes about MVF. I feel totally justified in fighting fire with fire. I straighten both arms out (titanic style) and the look on their face with the venom they come out with sometimes makes it worthwhile as I really hate them that much.

I know a lot of reds and some of them are cracking lads, but majority of them are completely clueless tits.

[Sister of fu]

John68 is a really good source on this subject and can give you a good balanced view on why we use the word Munich and what it means to him.

[Bluez]

Never understood why we would want to lower ourselves to their level.

We are impeccable, lets show it and expose them for the classless twats they really are

[Beefymcfc]

Personally I don't se it as a problem, and like WW says, sometimes you've got to fight fire with fire. The only thing that I envisage happening soon is that they'll start playing the sympathy card more and more as the decline starts to hit.

'Did you see what they did just then, don't they know about Swifty; please pity me........' - snivelling twats!

[Goataldo]

Never understood why we would want to lower ourselves to their level.

We are impeccable, lets show it and expose them for the classless twats they really are

My thoughts exactly (just a little more succinctly!)

WW I wouldn't fire with fire, I've never understood that one mate. I'd use cold water. Otherwise everyone gets burned cos they're using the same destructive thing.

[Beeks]

I don't call them munichs in conversation but don't give a fuck about singing the songs..anyone in the south stand who says otherwise is a hypocrite..every club has offensive songs..you would have to have a pretty thin skin to take offence at any of them..

[Blue Since 76]

The way the rags acted in the months and years after Munich and considering how long it took them to give anything to the survivors who couldn't play, they deserve all the stick they get. However, to most people, us using Munich is the same as calling Liverpool fans 'Hillsboroughs'. There are plenty of derogatory words for them which don't shame the name of City, so there's no reason to use Munich.

[carl_feedthegoat]

This topic comes up at least once every year or so.

I do call them Munichs......It riles the Rags(The only reason I do it) and that makes it worthwhile..in fact anything that riles the rags Im all up for it.

All this sensitivity about it is fucking so hypocritical, as these same people have probably come out with some offensive joke in their lives..and continue doing so..so to harp on and play the moral card is laughable.

[Goataldo]

I don't call them munichs in conversation but don't give a fuck about singing the songs..anyone in the south stand who says otherwise is a hypocrite..every club has offensive songs..you would have to have a pretty thin skin to take offence at any of them..

Rubbish. Some songs are more offensive than others. I don't have thin skin, I just think it's wrong. Do you sing the Hitler songs too?

[Fish111]

I don't have a problem reffering to them as munichs, singing songs about munich and if it pisses them off and upsets them then i hail it a success as i fuckin despise that club with a passion and couldn't give a flying fuck about their 'feelings'. The air disaster in 58 is well before my time and i have no personal connection with it so it doesn't register with me that we are singing about dead people, it's just a tool to wind the rag fuckers up with. I don't know of any City songs about Bradford or Hillsborough just the munich ones and they will continue to be sung heartily at every opportunity. Call me classless if you want but winding the rags up with munich songs are part & parcel of how i was brought up as a City fan back on the Kippax.

[walmai]

In the 70's and 80's, practically every London club sang 'Who's that lying on the runway' and West Ham were no exception. It was part of the repertoire, frankly, along with several other perhaps worse songs (especially when Spurs and their alleged following were on the receiving end).

Gradually, that type of really vitriolic song has faded away to all intents and purposes, mainly leaving behind the fairly lame 'who are ya' chorus whenever - which is rare admittedly - we score against anyone.

The last time there was any true sense of hatred in the stands at West Ham was when we played Millwall last season. Then, the songs were super-charged in their dislike towards our (only true) rivals and the atmosphere was correspondingly electric.

I don't think these days that I'd personally sing a 'Munich' song; my favourites have a bit more wit or originality about them to be honest. But the times from which those songs came is over really, what with all-seater stadia, convictions for terrace songs and the generally more sedate 'day out' experience.

[Beeks]

Do you sing the Hitler songs too?

now you're just being daft

[Patrick]

There's plenty of blue fans who are defined as much by their hatred for the rags as by their love for city. We all sit on the scale somewhere.

Also the actual experience of being at the derby brings out extreme behaviour by both sets of fans

Day to day life for me means that if I meet a rag fan, I feel a mild dislike, but normally just take the piss a bit. If she was good looking and wanted to shag me though I would probably try and put it to the back of my mind.

Standing in a derby crowd faced by a sea of red shirts and having consumed a few to many beers, would I join in? Ashamedly yes I probably would.

Trying to justify it though, nah, it's a disgrace, and I shouldn't do it. In fact there's quite a few things I shouldn't do. Perhaps I should become a catholic

[carl_feedthegoat]

There's plenty of blue fans who are defined as much by their hatred for the rags as by their love for city. We all sit on the scale somewhere.

Also the actual experience of being at the derby brings out extreme behaviour by both sets of fans

Day to day life for me means that if I meet a rag fan, I feel a mild dislike, but normally just take the piss a bit. If she was good looking and wanted to shag me though I would probably try and put it to the back of my mind.

Standing in a derby crowd faced by a sea of red shirts and having consumed a few to many beers, would I join in? Ashamedly yes I probably would.

Trying to justify it though, nah, it's a disgrace, and I shouldn't do it. In fact there's quite a few things I shouldn't do. Perhaps I should become a catholic

Good choice...........5 hail marys and all is forgiven.

[Slim]

I don't call them munichs in conversation but don't give a fuck about singing the songs..anyone in the south stand who says otherwise is a hypocrite..every club has offensive songs..you would have to have a pretty thin skin to take offence at any of them..

Rubbish. Some songs are more offensive than others. I don't have thin skin, I just think it's wrong. Do you sing the Hitler songs too?

So you won't compare the holcaust to the munich air disaster, but are quite willing to use it to back up your point.

Hmmm.

[Goataldo]

Do you sing the Hitler songs too?

now you're just being daft

Am I? How? Is that just where you personally draw the line?

Saying that 'songs are meant to be offensive' (sorry for paraphrasing you like) is like saying 'an insult is an insult', but some are far worse than others - I would happily call my mate a wanker, sometimes even as a greeting, but i wouldn't tell him I was glad his mum was dead or anything. I know we're not talking about mates here.

Are you saying it's just a convenient vehicle for the absolute hatred we all feel for ManUre?

Interesting that some are saying it's fine, and some are syaing they do it but know it's shameful. Oh, and some don't do it, before I forget!

[Goataldo]

I don't call them munichs in conversation but don't give a fuck about singing the songs..anyone in the south stand who says otherwise is a hypocrite..every club has offensive songs..you would have to have a pretty thin skin to take offence at any of them..

Rubbish. Some songs are more offensive than others. I don't have thin skin, I just think it's wrong. Do you sing the Hitler songs too?

So you won't compare the holcaust to the munich air disaster, but are quite willing to use it to back up your point.

Hmmm.

Surely you can see I'm talking about people singing shit about dead people who died in bad shizzle. Back up point? Just the only context I could think of at the time, I feel the point stands. Still appropriate context. You're hardly focussing on the main point now are you?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

[The Foggy Blue]

There were a handful of rags doing counter airplane-arms-stretched-out routines after schunts scored at the Eastlands derby, but I was so dementedly gutted at losing in the 93rd minute I was pretty numb looking at it. It was weird though.

[the_georgian_genius]

I find it embarrassing to our great football club.

I find it embarrassing to our greatest player at the moment when we sing his name.

I find it embarrassing to see dads sing it with their young lads like it's ok.

I call them rags, twats, cunts, wankers, knobs, dicks, scruffy twats, horrible arrogant more scouse than they think cunts!

I thought Feb 2008 would of put all this to bed but still it happens.