Mancini's Selection Messages

[Ted Hughes]

Putting two kids next to each other on the left side of the defence v Arsenal is a fucking joke. It's a stupid gamble that went predictably wrong & yet another example that Mancini is tinkering with team selections for God knows what reason. Everyone knows that a settled back 4 is an essential part of a winning team & if you can't have that, you get as close to it as possible.

I would suggest his preferred back 4 would be Kolarov Kompany Toure Boateng. Not once has he had chance to play that. At right back, zab, Richards and Boateng have all had injuries. For left back, Kolarov, Bridge, Boateng and zab have all had injuries, often at the same time.

He could have played Lescott at left back yesterday, but I suspect that would have been even worse, as he's not mobile enough to be full back. If we were playing Stoke, we'd get away with it, but not against Arsenal. With zab injured, his choices were Boateng, who played there in the world cup for Germany or Bridge, who is possibly the worst full back (defensively) in the league. I'd suggest he therefore made the only real choice available.

Maybe he should have played Kompany to the left of Boyata, but we didn't get chance to see how that would have actually panned out.

As for the messages this sends out, I'd go for:

Bridge isn't good enough
Lescott isn't as good as Boyata

It's only my opinion, but I'm in total agreement with him. The fact that we spent about £36m on Bridge and Lescott isn't really Mancini's problem. If they're upset about being left out, I suggest they pull their fingers out or cry into their enormous pay packets. Can't imagine Bridge is too concerned though, as he was happiest at Chelsea keeping the bench warm.

Imo, as soon as he puts out a back 4 containing Boateng & Kolarov, it'd better be against someone shite, at home, as it'll get torn apart otherwise. Not ready.

[The Man In Blue]

What happened to Zab?

[Ted Hughes]

What happened to Zab?

Injured I think.

[brite blu sky]

If there are any messages in the selection, they have been amplified by the defeat. Had we got away with it there would be less if any hysteria.

Not many fans would have any more faith in Lescott or Bridge at the moment than Mancini appears to have.. so imo that is a non argument. While Ted makes some good points i would seriously question that either of them would have not been split by the kind of through ball Arsenal are always looking for.. and so no-one anywhere can know that. Yes there was a certain amount of gambling going on, but im not convinced it was anymore than any other selection would have been.
Plenty of top teams have to field makeshift defences now and again, sometimes for key games, if it pays off they are praised, if it doesn't they are crucified.

We lose and a scapegoat has to be found.

That said there are some good points in this thread, but the tone is a bit unforgiving.

Over the summer Mancini brought in two fullbacks.. indicating there was need for improvement or even something totally different to play the way he wants. Either way the additions force a battle for starting places. Unfortunately they both get injured so all sense of ordered progression goes out the window. Lescott and Bridge haven't had a run of games since i dont know when, injured, out of form, not good enough, mixture of all 3.
The key point is that we need to develop improvements in the full back positions. Micah appears to be trying to get stuck in and looks at the moment that he is going to give Boateng a run for his money... great. The other side we have seen Zabba do a better job than any of the players that normally take that position. Kolarov will more than likely take some time to bed in and find his feet in the prem and only then will we see how good he is and if he is good enough.

The basic aim of Mancini must be to force improvements in all positions, you could argue that Boateng's initial appearance at RB gave Micah the incentive to start getting serious. So far the acquisition of Kolarov hasn't had the chance to do anything similar on the Left. Both Lescott and Bridge need to improve a serious amount and for whatever reason they dont appear to have challenged each other. Ideally Bridge would be trying to improve to get in the side instead of Kolarov and Lescott would be one of the main options with Kolo and Vinne for CB, Boyata adding a 4th option.

For whatever reasons we haven't had the luxury of that basic stability for it all to settle down and shake itself out.

In relation to the forward line and no AJ. What we dont know is what Mancini had as a game plan if it hadn't gone wrong so early on. Personally i had assumed Ade would get a good run and AJ to come on just after him, Mario to add to that just for 10 mins at the end.
With Tevez going off i dont think it would have made much difference who came on tbh, with 10 men and no Tevez it looked like it was always going to be a case of outnumbered in the final 3rd and loss of the midfield. Im not reading anything into the substitutions Mancini made in that situation.

[johnny crossan]

If there are any messages in the selection, they have been amplified by the defeat. Had we got away with it there would be less if any hysteria.

Not many fans would have any more faith in Lescott or Bridge at the moment than Mancini appears to have.. so imo that is a non argument. While Ted makes some good points i would seriously question that either of them would have not been split by the kind of through ball Arsenal are always looking for.. and so no-one anywhere can know that. Yes there was a certain amount of gambling going on, but im not convinced it was anymore than any other selection would have been.
Plenty of top teams have to field makeshift defences now and again, sometimes for key games, if it pays off they are praised, if it doesn't they are crucified.

We lose and a scapegoat has to be found.

That said there are some good points in this thread, but the tone is a bit unforgiving.

Over the summer Mancini brought in two fullbacks.. indicating there was need for improvement or even something totally different to play the way he wants. Either way the additions force a battle for starting places. Unfortunately they both get injured so all sense of ordered progression goes out the window. Lescott and Bridge haven't had a run of games since i dont know when, injured, out of form, not good enough, mixture of all 3.
The key point is that we need to develop improvements in the full back positions. Micah appears to be trying to get stuck in and looks at the moment that he is going to give Boateng a run for his money... great. The other side we have seen Zabba do a better job than any of the players that normally take that position. Kolarov will more than likely take some time to bed in and find his feet in the prem and only then will we see how good he is and if he is good enough.

The basic aim of Mancini must be to force improvements in all positions, you could argue that Boateng's initial appearance at RB gave Micah the incentive to start getting serious. So far the acquisition of Kolarov hasn't had the chance to do anything similar on the Left. Both Lescott and Bridge need to improve a serious amount and for whatever reason they dont appear to have challenged each other. Ideally Bridge would be trying to improve to get in the side instead of Kolarov and Lescott would be one of the main options with Kolo and Vinne for CB, Boyata adding a 4th option.

For whatever reasons we haven't had the luxury of that basic stability for it all to settle down and shake itself out.

In relation to the forward line and no AJ. What we dont know is what Mancini had as a game plan if it hadn't gone wrong so early on. Personally i had assumed Ade would get a good run and AJ to come on just after him, Mario to add to that just for 10 mins at the end.
With Tevez going off i dont think it would have made much difference who came on tbh, with 10 men and no Tevez it looked like it was always going to be a case of outnumbered in the final 3rd and loss of the midfield. Im not reading anything into the substitutions Mancini made in that situation.

Agree.
A harsh reality check for all our current England internationals except Hart.
Lescott is fourth choice after Toure, Boateng & Boyata, Bridge is fourth choice after Kolarov, Zabaleta & Boateng, SWP is apparently fourth choice after Silva, Balotelli & Johnson - who is of course third choice. Barry would be fourth pick in midfield behind De Jong, Yaya, & Milner and probably the one to lose his place for Balotelli if everybody is fit.

Boateng has now played himself off my Christmas Card list - Micah in the form of yesterday should be at right back on merit.

[Ted Hughes]

When Mancini took over, he immediately started setting up the defence so that the fullbacks & defenders were closer together in those situations & formed a good line, one of the main reasons was to stop that kind of pass. The situation that happened for that goal was that Boyata was deeper than the rest of the defence, playing Chamakh onside & Boateng was too far away from him, inviting the pass through the gap. Wheras Lescott & Bridge make mistakes sometimes 1v1, they don't normally get those kind of things so wrong. With two kids together it's only too predictable that organisational problems such as this would happen. If they play together again, I expect similar problems.

[CityFanFromRome]

When Mancini took over, he immediately started setting up the defence so that the fullbacks & defenders were closer together in those situations & formed a good line, one of the main reasons was to stop that kind of pass. The situation that happened for that goal was that Boyata was deeper than the rest of the defence, playing Chamakh onside & Boateng was too far away from him, inviting the pass through the gap. Wheras Lescott & Bridge make mistakes sometimes 1v1, they don't normally get those kind of things so wrong. With two kids together it's only too predictable that organisational problems such as this would happen. If they play together again, I expect similar problems.

Young as he may be Boateng is no kid, he's a Germany international who played a World Cup...so he's experienced enough not to nmake this kind of mistakes, but even the more experienced players will make mistakes now and then. Look at Barry on Nasri's goal, for example; he went against Arshavin leaving Nasri alone, and when the pass was made he attempted to go back and stop the French but he was already behind and slower so the damage was done. And yet, Barry is no kid...

[Ted Hughes]

When Mancini took over, he immediately started setting up the defence so that the fullbacks & defenders were closer together in those situations & formed a good line, one of the main reasons was to stop that kind of pass. The situation that happened for that goal was that Boyata was deeper than the rest of the defence, playing Chamakh onside & Boateng was too far away from him, inviting the pass through the gap. Wheras Lescott & Bridge make mistakes sometimes 1v1, they don't normally get those kind of things so wrong. With two kids together it's only too predictable that organisational problems such as this would happen. If they play together again, I expect similar problems.

Young as he may be Boateng is no kid, he's a Germany international who played a World Cup...so he's experienced enough not to nmake this kind of mistakes, but even the more experienced players will make mistakes now and then. Look at Barry on Nasri's goal, for example; he went against Arshavin leaving Nasri alone, and when the pass was made he attempted to go back and stop the French but he was already behind and slower so the damage was done. And yet, Barry is no kid...

And neither Yaya Toure nor Boateng covered it, wheras you would expect established defenders to do that. They failed not because they're shit but because because they're just not used to playing in those positions in City's defence & aren't 'at it' yet. Boyata & Boateng aren't used to playing those positions for City & at best ONE of could play with 3 other established defenders. Both? On the same side of the back 4? West Brom all over again.

[the_georgian_genius]

I'ev heard and read some real shite in my time put every time i see a post from Ted Hughes on here it takes it to a new level. I shouldn't be responding to this thread as my mother always said to me "don't get involved with idiots as soon enough people might not be able to tell the difference as you will get dragged down to their level" but i felt i had to respond to this beauty.

Putting two kids next to each other on the left side of the defence v Arsenal is a fucking joke. It's a stupid gamble that went predictably wrong & yet another example that Mancini is tinkering with team selections for God knows what reason.

First of all Boateng is no kid he is a experienced international with over 100 games in top flight domestic football.

Secondly it wasn't a gamble to ut Boyata in defence against Arsena. He is better than Lescott and it wasn't a gamble when he played against Chelsea and the rags twice last season was it.

But you know, we lost to a sending off in the first 5 mins and had to play against an arsenal side with 10 men for 85 mins and actually did very very well but i understand that you had to get a snipe in at that stupid italian twat in the silly scarf in the dugout as there hasn't been much oppourtunity to do that this season and there won't be many more chances for the rest of the season. Isn't that right Ted?

[Slim]

Your mum is shit at sayings. It's "don't argue with idiots, they'll drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience".

And Boateng has 88 first team domestic games.

[the_georgian_genius]

Your mum is shit at sayings. It's "don't argue with idiots, they'll drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience".

And Boateng has 88 first team domestic games.

Does it matter? It's still the same thing.

and don't get your stats from wikipedia slimmy boy!! It's over 100.

[Beefymcfc]

Your mum is shit at sayings. It's "don't argue with idiots, they'll drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience".

And Boateng has 88 first team domestic games.

Does it matter? It's still the same thing.

and don't get your stats from wikipedia slimmy boy!! It's over 100.

Not that I'm disagreeing but would you have played 2 untested players next to each other, and 3 players who haven't had time to play together, especially in different positions than they'd previously played?

[Slim]

Your mum is shit at sayings. It's "don't argue with idiots, they'll drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience".

And Boateng has 88 first team domestic games.

Does it matter? It's still the same thing.

and don't get your stats from wikipedia slimmy boy!! It's over 100.

Well, I have him as 10 league games for Hertha BSC.

61 league games, 1 cup game and 11 European matches for HSV.

4 league games and 1 European match for us.

88.

[Buffalo Soldier]

First of all Boateng is no kid he is a experienced international with over 100 games in top flight domestic football.

And with 2 games in a new league with new teammates.

Secondly it wasn't a gamble to ut Boyata in defence against Arsena. He is better than Lescott and it wasn't a gamble when he played against Chelsea and the rags twice last season was it.

Yes it was. Particularly against United where he played ok but we ultaimtely lost so the gamble didn't pay off. Against Chelsea he was used at right back where he won't be tested as much as at centre back and he was playing alongside 3 experienced defenders who have played together on a regular basis.

As Ted says, to play him at centre half against a team like Arsenal and alongside a player who is getting used to a new league and team was an unnecessary risk given that we had Lescott on the bench. Hopefully both Boyata and Mancini will learn from it.

[Beefymcfc]

Your mum is shit at sayings. It's "don't argue with idiots, they'll drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience".

And Boateng has 88 first team domestic games.

Does it matter? It's still the same thing.

and don't get your stats from wikipedia slimmy boy!! It's over 100.

Not that I'm disagreeing but would you have played 2 untested players next to each other, and 3 players who haven't had time to play together, especially in different positions than they'd previously played?

[the_georgian_genius]

Your mum is shit at sayings. It's "don't argue with idiots, they'll drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience".

And Boateng has 88 first team domestic games.

Does it matter? It's still the same thing.

and don't get your stats from wikipedia slimmy boy!! It's over 100.

Not that I'm disagreeing but would you have played 2 untested players next to each other, and 3 players who haven't had time to play together, especially in different positions than they'd previously played?

I would have played the players who were right for the game and Boateng > Bridge i would do every time whether it was Arsenal or Accrington. I rate Boyata over Lescott anyway and any it wasn't bad decision to play Boyata no matter what anyone says, it could of happend to anyone.

[the_georgian_genius]

Your mum is shit at sayings. It's "don't argue with idiots, they'll drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience".

And Boateng has 88 first team domestic games.

Does it matter? It's still the same thing.

and don't get your stats from wikipedia slimmy boy!! It's over 100.

Well, I have him as 10 league games for Hertha BSC.

61 league games, 1 cup game and 11 European matches for HSV.

4 league games and 1 European match for us.

88.

Well them stats are wrong, he has over 100 games in domestic and european football.

[the_georgian_genius]

And with 2 games in a new league with new teammates.

So a policy for new signings is to play them against the lesser sides but when the big boys come into town we replace them with infeiror players because they are used to the place?

Yes it was. Particularly against United where he played ok but we ultaimtely lost so the gamble didn't pay off. Against Chelsea he was used at right back where he won't be tested as much as at centre back and he was playing alongside 3 experienced defenders who have played together on a regular basis..

Wasn't tested as much against Chelsea? He had Ashley Cole and Malouda to contend with and kept them both quiet aswell as having to deal with Anelka and Drogba. The hardest test in world football at this moment.

As Ted says, to play him at centre half against a team like Arsenal and alongside a player who is getting used to a new league and team was an unnecessary risk given that we had Lescott on the bench. Hopefully both Boyata and Mancini will learn from it.

Mancini has nothign to learn from. He played the better player, no matter if he is 8 years younger than the one on the bench. He is a manager who plays players if they are good enough, not if they are experienced enough. If that was the case then Bridge would of been torn 7 new arse holes on Sunday and the scoreline would of been alot more than 0-3.

[Beefymcfc]

Your mum is shit at sayings. It's "don't argue with idiots, they'll drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience".

And Boateng has 88 first team domestic games.

Does it matter? It's still the same thing.

and don't get your stats from wikipedia slimmy boy!! It's over 100.

Not that I'm disagreeing but would you have played 2 untested players next to each other, and 3 players who haven't had time to play together, especially in different positions than they'd previously played?

I would have played the players who were right for the game and Boateng > Bridge i would do every time whether it was Arsenal or Accrington. I rate Boyata over Lescott anyway and any it wasn't bad decision to play Boyata no matter what anyone says, it could of happend to anyone.

Thanks for the reply, and it could've happened to anyone but a little bit of experience would've left the Ref with no need to make the decision; don't you think, or did the gamble pay-off?

And, what about the players experience of games/positions/team rapport?

[the_georgian_genius]

Your mum is shit at sayings. It's "don't argue with idiots, they'll drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience".

And Boateng has 88 first team domestic games.

Does it matter? It's still the same thing.

and don't get your stats from wikipedia slimmy boy!! It's over 100.

Not that I'm disagreeing but would you have played 2 untested players next to each other, and 3 players who haven't had time to play together, especially in different positions than they'd previously played?

I would have played the players who were right for the game and Boateng > Bridge i would do every time whether it was Arsenal or Accrington. I rate Boyata over Lescott anyway and any it wasn't bad decision to play Boyata no matter what anyone says, it could of happend to anyone.

Thanks for the reply, and it could've happened to anyone but a little bit of experience would've left the Ref with no need to make the decision; don't you think, or did the gamble pay-off?

But Lescott, a guy with lots of experience could of given away two penalties in the last few games when he didn't need to so that's not to say he wouldn't of done the same as Boyata. It was a mistimed tackle that anyone could of done, even our best defender did it 20 mins later and gave away a pen.

Again i don't think playing Boyata was a gamble, he has enough games under his belt and has shown us that he is not fazed by any game. He is part of a 4 man central defensive squad and is currently IMO the 3rd best centre back we have so with our 2nd best centre back out it was hardly a gamble to play our 3rd best instead of our 4th best.