Mancini (The Ted Hughes and BBS thread)

[The Original Special One]

The fact that he chooses to play Yaya up front rather than Adebayor says a lot about Ade's future with us.
I would have taken Yaya off, he was adding nothing to the game. By playing him where he did. it meant that they had the extra man in midfield. Yaya as our extra man didn't pose enough threat in the game to make him a danger.
Milner is far more mobil, which is what we needed.
When he brought Johnno on, Milner should have dropped into the middle and Yaya should have gone for a sit down.


Hopefully when we buy a new striker, Mancini will allow 2 strikers and Silva to drop in behind as the creative general.

Very frustrated by this negative stuff.

Yaya was partly there to dilute the influence of Scholes imo by making him track back & it worked to a large extent as Scholes produced fewer dangerous passes in this game than just about any game I've seen him play in recent years. As Doug said, in a way it's a decent point. The rags defended really well tonight & did the moving accross as a block thing that Mancini has been trying to teach City, far better than we currently do. They've had much more practice though.

My gripe is that we once again unbalanced the team by playing Boateng, who was clearly shitting himself & scared to attack & we waited til injury time to bring on Ade for a clearly unfit Tevez, purely to waste time rather than go for a win. Having to settle for a point is one thing but playing for a draw, as Bob has in every derby, even the cup games, is totally unacceptable imo.

Fair points but I just remember those two late late defeats last season, as Mancini clearly did.

We had three key players: Ya Ya, Tevez , and Silva who are still getting acquainted with each other's play, against a side who clearly were determined not to lose tonight and hunted us down in packs.
As our new signings get to know each other better, they'll develop that 'sixth sense' that teammates do, and become more confident in each other's movements.
Ask yourself how pissed off you'd be if we'd played them off the park and they stole a victory from us.

[Ted Hughes]

We've drawn with the most consistent side in the league, a team thats unbeaten. They played crap against everyone else and won, played well against us and couldnt beat us and people are still moaning. Its not like a home draw against Rochdale. Way too much whinging round here. It was a good result, we defended brilliantly and we contained a United team who were kicking into gear.

Good performance and a good result. Thinking we should take the game to United and we have a better team is crazy. We've played the entire big 4 now with Mancini's negative tactics. we've trounced Liverpool, beat Chelsea, drew with United and lost 3-0 to Arsenal in a game which could of went either way had our young centre back not being foolish. Thats 7 points from a possible 12 against the top 4. By my reckoning thats not too shabby.

We've played the rags 4 times now since Bob came. Played for a draw in all 4 games & barely had enough shots on target in all 4, to win one game. If we had Pearces' team it wouldn't be so bad but with the squad we have now, it's fucking shite, however you dress it up.

[petrov]

Good point that Ted and one I hadn't thought about.

As another positive thought beefy...How about the fact that having played the rags and got a draw, most of feel disappointed.
It isn't that long ago that we often felt relieved that derbies were over.
It is a measure, not only of their failings but also our rise that this perception has changed.

I wouldn't put their failings into it mate, just our progress. I don't know why we as city fans tend to think they're in decline. They are unbeaten this season. They are winning games without getting out of 2nd gear, they still have Rooney to come back. They are far from in the decline many on here seem to think. They are still one of Europes top sides. No one can dispute this. Imho, I think its great that some of our fans are disappointed, its shows how much WE have progressed, and how much WE have come on under Mancini. We're one tough nut to crack now, even if it isn't pretty. A solid foundation is the key to a good house.

[Ted Hughes]

The fact that he chooses to play Yaya up front rather than Adebayor says a lot about Ade's future with us.
I would have taken Yaya off, he was adding nothing to the game. By playing him where he did. it meant that they had the extra man in midfield. Yaya as our extra man didn't pose enough threat in the game to make him a danger.
Milner is far more mobil, which is what we needed.
When he brought Johnno on, Milner should have dropped into the middle and Yaya should have gone for a sit down.


Hopefully when we buy a new striker, Mancini will allow 2 strikers and Silva to drop in behind as the creative general.

Very frustrated by this negative stuff.

Yaya was partly there to dilute the influence of Scholes imo by making him track back & it worked to a large extent as Scholes produced fewer dangerous passes in this game than just about any game I've seen him play in recent years. As Doug said, in a way it's a decent point. The rags defended really well tonight & did the moving accross as a block thing that Mancini has been trying to teach City, far better than we currently do. They've had much more practice though.

My gripe is that we once again unbalanced the team by playing Boateng, who was clearly shitting himself & scared to attack & we waited til injury time to bring on Ade for a clearly unfit Tevez, purely to waste time rather than go for a win. Having to settle for a point is one thing but playing for a draw, as Bob has in every derby, even the cup games, is totally unacceptable imo.

Fair points but I just remember those two late late defeats last season, as Mancini clearly did.

We had three key players: Ya Ya, Tevez , and Silva who are still getting acquainted with each other's play, against a side who clearly were determined not to lose tonight and hunted us down in packs.
As our new signings get to know each other better, they'll develop that 'sixth sense' that teammates do, and become more confident in each other's movements.
Ask yourself how pissed off you'd be if we'd played them off the park and they stole a victory from us.

Tbh if that had happened I'd be confident that we were on the right track both tactically & psychologically to taking over from them. I don't mind losing if we play well because I know it will change eventually.When I see us running scared of an inferior squad, it makes me wonder if we'll ever have the balls to take their position from them. We didn't do anything tonight that Birmingham or Fulham couldn't have done v the same team.

[Beefymcfc]

Good point that Ted and one I hadn't thought about.

As another positive thought beefy...How about the fact that having played the rags and got a draw, most of feel disappointed.
It isn't that long ago that we often felt relieved that derbies were over.
It is a measure, not only of their failings but also our rise that this perception has changed.

Mate, mine isn't of disappointment of not winning, drawing or even losing, it's one of knowing that the majority of games are going to be played like this. As you know my views, he's still got another game to prove and then I'll make my mind up. If it's a 3 pointer or a decent performance then I'm happy. If it's a loss (beat them convincingly last season whilst in far better form) or a draw with a crap performance, then it'll be my mind made up.

I suppose I can live in the solace that we beat our English Derby rivals.

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

Didn't try to win.
Disgraceful!

[BobKowalski]

The fact that he chooses to play Yaya up front rather than Adebayor says a lot about Ade's future with us.
I would have taken Yaya off, he was adding nothing to the game. By playing him where he did. it meant that they had the extra man in midfield. Yaya as our extra man didn't pose enough threat in the game to make him a danger.
Milner is far more mobil, which is what we needed.
When he brought Johnno on, Milner should have dropped into the middle and Yaya should have gone for a sit down.


Hopefully when we buy a new striker, Mancini will allow 2 strikers and Silva to drop in behind as the creative general.

Very frustrated by this negative stuff.

Yaya was partly there to dilute the influence of Scholes imo by making him track back & it worked to a large extent as Scholes produced fewer dangerous passes in this game than just about any game I've seen him play in recent years. As Doug said, in a way it's a decent point. The rags defended really well tonight & did the moving accross as a block thing that Mancini has been trying to teach City, far better than we currently do. They've had much more practice though.

My gripe is that we once again unbalanced the team by playing Boateng, who was clearly shitting himself & scared to attack & we waited til injury time to bring on Ade for a clearly unfit Tevez, purely to waste time rather than go for a win. Having to settle for a point is one thing but playing for a draw, as Bob has in every derby, even the cup games, is totally unacceptable imo.

Fair points but I just remember those two late late defeats last season, as Mancini clearly did.

We had three key players: Ya Ya, Tevez , and Silva who are still getting acquainted with each other's play, against a side who clearly were determined not to lose tonight and hunted us down in packs.
As our new signings get to know each other better, they'll develop that 'sixth sense' that teammates do, and become more confident in each other's movements.
Ask yourself how pissed off you'd be if we'd played them off the park and they stole a victory from us.

Tbh if that had happened I'd be confident that we were on the right track both tactically & psychologically to taking over from them. I don't mind losing if we play well because I know it will change eventually.When I see us running scared of an inferior squad, it makes me wonder if we'll ever have the balls to take their position from them. We didn't do anything tonight that Birmingham or Fulham couldn't have done v the same team.

Taggart wouldn't have played the way he did tonight against Birmingham or Fulham. You can measure how far we have come not just by looking at ourselves but in the way other teams look at us and approach a game with us. Taggart played this like a CL tie with a view not to concede and snatch one on the break. We approached it by making damn sure we didn't get caught out to a sloppy goal especially in the last few minutes like we have in the last 3 games. Taggart doesn't go to Fulham with that outlook. Mancini and Taggart both had wry smiles on their respective faces directly after the match because both knew what the other was up to and it was all about not getting beat or getting dicked by a sucker punch.

Do we have the balls to take over from them? Yes we do but getting your arse handed to you (again) in another defeat no matter how heroic ain't the way to go. And yes neither is losing away to Wolves. Also we have too many monkeys on our backs. Not winning a thing in 34 years being the biggest. Mancini should have treated the CC with more importance and dicking around with the back 4 has also been costly albeit not fatally (so far). Tonight however I do not regard as a mistake nor a huge surprise. Losing 3 games to them in the last minute was a demon that needed exorcising. Beating them would have been better but anyone thinking Taggart was gong to send out a team that would not fight and scrap like their lives depended upon it was deluding themselves.

The ironic thing is Taggart's approach to this match along with his invented viruses and various rantings this week is the surest sign of how seriously he takes the threat City poses to their insufferable and smug dominance. Today the battle ended in stalemate but we will win the war.

[Blue Since 76]

Keeping this on Mancini, I still think his position is basically untenable. He's turned into Ranieri - if he doesn't get us to top 4, he'll get sacked, but if he does, we'll stand a chance of attracting a 'top' coach and he'll be out as soon as the contract's agreed.

I think the one thing which could save him is to play decent football, the sort you'd expect for several hundred million investment. If he makes us look like Barca and we're still winning, why would anyone want to change it and the fans would be happy, the stadium would sell out more qickly, people in Nepal would be buying de Jong replica tops, we'd be convinced he could win a title and everything would be rosy.

As I can't see the middle paragraph happening, he'll be gone in summer either way.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

Keeping this on Mancini, I still think his position is basically untenable. He's turned into Ranieri - if he doesn't get us to top 4, he'll get sacked, but if he does, we'll stand a chance of attracting a 'top' coach and he'll be out as soon as the contract's agreed.

I think the one thing which could save him is to play decent football, the sort you'd expect for several hundred million investment. If he makes us look like Barca and we're still winning, why would anyone want to change it and the fans would be happy, the stadium would sell out more qickly, people in Nepal would be buying de Jong replica tops, we'd be convinced he could win a title and everything would be rosy.

As I can't see the middle paragraph happening, he'll be gone in summer either way.

That's not what you were saying when Hughes was in charge and we were failing to meet our targets. Yet now you want man sacked who is getting us there???

It WAS about Hughes all this time after all wasn't it? I was right on the money all the time. Shit, I even questioned myself occasionally.

[Ted Hughes]

The fact that he chooses to play Yaya up front rather than Adebayor says a lot about Ade's future with us.
I would have taken Yaya off, he was adding nothing to the game. By playing him where he did. it meant that they had the extra man in midfield. Yaya as our extra man didn't pose enough threat in the game to make him a danger.
Milner is far more mobil, which is what we needed.
When he brought Johnno on, Milner should have dropped into the middle and Yaya should have gone for a sit down.


Hopefully when we buy a new striker, Mancini will allow 2 strikers and Silva to drop in behind as the creative general.

Very frustrated by this negative stuff.

Yaya was partly there to dilute the influence of Scholes imo by making him track back & it worked to a large extent as Scholes produced fewer dangerous passes in this game than just about any game I've seen him play in recent years. As Doug said, in a way it's a decent point. The rags defended really well tonight & did the moving accross as a block thing that Mancini has been trying to teach City, far better than we currently do. They've had much more practice though.

My gripe is that we once again unbalanced the team by playing Boateng, who was clearly shitting himself & scared to attack & we waited til injury time to bring on Ade for a clearly unfit Tevez, purely to waste time rather than go for a win. Having to settle for a point is one thing but playing for a draw, as Bob has in every derby, even the cup games, is totally unacceptable imo.

Fair points but I just remember those two late late defeats last season, as Mancini clearly did.

We had three key players: Ya Ya, Tevez , and Silva who are still getting acquainted with each other's play, against a side who clearly were determined not to lose tonight and hunted us down in packs.
As our new signings get to know each other better, they'll develop that 'sixth sense' that teammates do, and become more confident in each other's movements.
Ask yourself how pissed off you'd be if we'd played them off the park and they stole a victory from us.

Tbh if that had happened I'd be confident that we were on the right track both tactically & psychologically to taking over from them. I don't mind losing if we play well because I know it will change eventually.When I see us running scared of an inferior squad, it makes me wonder if we'll ever have the balls to take their position from them. We didn't do anything tonight that Birmingham or Fulham couldn't have done v the same team.

Taggart wouldn't have played the way he did tonight against Birmingham or Fulham. You can measure how far we have come not just by looking at ourselves but in the way other teams look at us and approach a game with us. Taggart played this like a CL tie with a view not to concede and snatch one on the break. We approached it by making damn sure we didn't get caught out to a sloppy goal especially in the last few minutes like we have in the last 3 games. Taggart doesn't go to Fulham with that outlook. Mancini and Taggart both had wry smiles on their respective faces directly after the match because both knew what the other was up to and it was all about not getting beat or getting dicked by a sucker punch.

Do we have the balls to take over from them? Yes we do but getting your arse handed to you (again) in another defeat no matter how heroic ain't the way to go. And yes neither is losing away to Wolves. Also we have too many monkeys on our backs. Not winning a thing in 34 years being the biggest. Mancini should have treated the CC with more importance and dicking around with the back 4 has also been costly albeit not fatally (so far). Tonight however I do not regard as a mistake nor a huge surprise. Losing 3 games to them in the last minute was a demon that needed exorcising. Beating them would have been better but anyone thinking Taggart was gong to send out a team that would not fight and scrap like their lives depended upon it was deluding themselves.

The ironic thing is Taggart's approach to this match along with his invented viruses and various rantings this week is the surest sign of how seriously he takes the threat City poses to their insufferable and smug dominance. Today the battle ended in stalemate but we will win the war.

I've definitely said on here that Taggart plays like that away from home against most of the teams he considers a threat. When people were slagging Hughes for having a defensive midfielder like DeJong in the team, I was making the point that rags often had 3 in big games as they played Scholes deep too. Fletcher & Park play those games more often than not. Sometimes it works for them & they win big away games with it. What NEVER happens is that Chelsea or Arsenal or even Liverpool or Spurs or even Everton or Villa sit in their own half & play for a draw on their own grounds. They have a go & sometimes they win. If you gave any of them an extra £300M to build a team I'll fucking guarantee they'll have a hell of a go & if they lose they'll have another go next year.

The teams that will sit back on their own ground are Stoke, Birmingham etc. If you're proud of City's efforts last night, go try being proud amongst some rags, they think we're scared of them. Go & fucking explain how we're not.

[Dronny]

It's all about results, (actually, ask Del Bosque that question and he might disagree) we got a point last night and we have daylight between 5th but I actually enjoyed the 4-3 last year more. Funny old game really????

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

It's all about results, (actually, ask Del Bosque that question and he might disagree) we got a point last night and we have daylight between 5th but I actually enjoyed the 4-3 last year more. Funny old game really????

I suppose that's the thing here. I didn't enjoy 3-4 last season. In fact, I thought it was like a kung fu kick to kidneys. I much preferred dull 0-0 last night.

[superkev8705]

It's all about results, (actually, ask Del Bosque that question and he might disagree) we got a point last night and we have daylight between 5th but I actually enjoyed the 4-3 last year more. Funny old game really????

I suppose that's the thing here. I didn't enjoy 3-4 last season. In fact, I thought it was like a kung fu kick to kidneys. I much preferred dull 0-0 last night.

I find it hard to enjoy any game we get beat in. Especially when its a last minute job like last seasons derbies. It looked like it was going to happen again but our defence all round was brilliant. I agree that the performance was defensive and not great but its an improvement on last seasons derbies if were going to start comparing.

[Douglas Higginbottom]

There are different ways of looking at all this from where I sit. Mancini's view seems to be 100% about making the Chumps league placings this year and if that's what he has been told to achieve above all else that's fair enough. I doubt he will care how he achieves it and why should he. Fail to do so probably means the sack so if you were manager and thought the best way of getting there is a very cautious approach to games that's likely what you would do.

When the take over happened wasn't the talk about a long term plan? As senility sets in I can't remember exactly but I though we were starting on a 5 year plan so there was realisation that it wouldnt happen overnight.There needed to be progress but there was no instant formula irrespective of how many top players come in.That scenario was a little muddied when Hughes was sacked because it gave the message that a more instant success was craved and although there had been progress it needed to be quicker. I honestly think it is too early to know if we are going to be better off as a result of the change or in spite of it.We have brought in another bunch of excellent players but that was going to happen anyway and as they settle in we are in a good position to have a real go.

The fans seems to be split into various camps. Some crave success and don't give a toss how we achieve it , some just want us to play quality football and probably believe with all the class players we now have that success would automatically follow. Opinions /reactions get swayed massively by individual results and a game like last night is hard to accept by many as we seemed to accept a draw before even getting onto the field.The WBA game seemed to some to be the light that showed just how good we can be and ask why don't we play like that all the time.Were we that good or was it more that WBA allowed us to play how we wanted and things just fell right for us on the day.They did hit the woodwork twice and we will never know how the game would have gone if one had gone in.

I don't know and I think fair judgements can only be taken quite a bit further into the season.I personally fall into the "don't care as long as we win something" category but part of that is because I feel sure that in winning something the football will have to improve.Whether we can actually win something playing and thinking as we are I am not convinced but we are 4th at the moment and all is far from bad.

I was left wondering after last night what the players were thinking about the approach Mancini sent them out with. All along I have said that his biggest challenge is the dressing room and as long as they are on the manager's side then we will get success.We now have a bunch of games where we can and should get a good run of results so let's see how he see how we approach them.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

There are different ways of looking at all this from where I sit. Mancini's view seems to be 100% about making the Chumps league placings this year and if that's what he has been told to achieve above all else that's fair enough. I doubt he will care how he achieves it and why should he. Fail to do so probably means the sack so if you were manager and thought the best way of getting there is a very cautious approach to games that's likely what you would do.

When the take over happened wasn't the talk about a long term plan? As senility sets in I can't remember exactly but I though we were starting on a 5 year plan so there was realisation that it wouldnt happen overnight.There needed to be progress but there was no instant formula irrespective of how many top players come in.That scenario was a little muddied when Hughes was sacked because it gave the message that a more instant success was craved and although there had been progress it needed to be quicker. I honestly think it is too early to know if we are going to be better off as a result of the change or in spite of it.We have brought in another bunch of excellent players but that was going to happen anyway and as they settle in we are in a good position to have a real go.

The fans seems to be split into various camps. Some crave success and don't give a toss how we achieve it , some just want us to play quality football and probably believe with all the class players we now have that success would automatically follow. Opinions /reactions get swayed massively by individual results and a game like last night is hard to accept by many as we seemed to accept a draw before even getting onto the field.The WBA game seemed to some to be the light that showed just how good we can be and ask why don't we play like that all the time.Were we that good or was it more that WBA allowed us to play how we wanted and things just fell right for us on the day.They did hit the woodwork twice and we will never know how the game would have gone if one had gone in.

I don't know and I think fair judgements can only be taken quite a bit further into the season.I personally fall into the "don't care as long as we win something" category but part of that is because I feel sure that in winning something the football will have to improve.Whether we can actually win something playing and thinking as we are I am not convinced but we are 4th at the moment and all is far from bad.

I was left wondering after last night what the players were thinking about the approach Mancini sent them out with. All along I have said that his biggest challenge is the dressing room and as long as they are on the manager's side then we will get success.We now have a bunch of games where we can and should get a good run of results so let's see how he see how we approach them.

Top post that.

[Dronny]

It's all about results, (actually, ask Del Bosque that question and he might disagree) we got a point last night and we have daylight between 5th but I actually enjoyed the 4-3 last year more. Funny old game really????

I suppose that's the thing here. I didn't enjoy 3-4 last season. In fact, I thought it was like a kung fu kick to kidneys. I much preferred dull 0-0 last night.

I was absolutely devastated when mowen scored but on reflection it was enjoyable because we played a huge part in one of the games of the season.....you win some and you lose some + draw some too!!

[dazby]

Great post Doug.

[Abu Dhabi]

I'd like us line up like this


.................... Hart
..............Kolo.......Kompany.............
Zabaleta..............................Kolarov
..................... De jong .................
............. Yaya ............................
............................. Silva.............
... Johnson........................ Balo.....
..................... Tevez....................


We'd be exposed all over the field, specially on our left, but fuck it it would be fun.


Or even better, bring yaya to CB, shift kolo to RB, and throw Milner in the middle instead.

Yeah that's it.

[Beefymcfc]

I'd just like to know how many/which games have actually got people out of their seats thinking, that was awesome, or very good, or even good?

If you can, then put them down.

[superkev8705]

I'd just like to know how many/which games have actually got people out of their seats thinking, that was awesome, or very good, or even good?

If you can, then put them down.

First half v West Brom away on Sunday. At the moment thats all i can think of.