Someone's got to say it eventually

[john68]

King Kev,
I can answer your question about the attitude of City fans and the media to Mercer and Allison with reasonable accuracy as there was an incident during the early (ish) part of the season that threw just that issue into the public arena.
I am not certain of the exact date Lee, but I remember noting the incident in the 1968 series I wrote for the board. You would be able to find it stored in the news archive somewhere.

During the early part of the 1968 season, Malcolm Allison announced that he had been offered, and had accepted the managers job at Coventry City. Maine Road went into meltdown and I remember clearly the Kippax in full voice singing for almost the whole of the next game (and with a lot of passion) "Stay, stay, stay, stay, Allison." City fans were in a panic at the thought of losing Big Mal who was absolutely worshipped. Far from Mal or Mecer being criticised for our record (almost identical to this season), they were both treated as Gods. Almost the other extreme to present day.

Please note that, even after this incident, they didn't consider the team to be complete and went on to sign Francis Lee, whom Joe called the final peice of the jigsaw. Today, we are not even 12 months into Mancini's reign, we know he wants to strengthen the attack yet some are not prepared to give that chance to fully develop his squad. I find it quite amazing.

[Wonderwall]

We are far from perfect, but we must be doing something right if we're in the top 4 and pretty much every team fears playing us. We're doing well and we're not even that great, so it can only get better. I just think many people expect miracles, and the reality is, that it doesnt work like that.

Now we know that is most definitely not true! We have played 2 of the bottom 3 recently and got 1 point!

[saulman]

Fuck me, I thought this thread was a joke. Are people seriously considering wanting rid of Mancini?

We're in the top 4, 3 points behind the scum after 13 games!!!!


Are fans from other clubs as stupid as us?

[King Kev]

King Kev,
I can answer your question about the attitude of City fans and the media to Mercer and Allison with reasonable accuracy as there was an incident during the early (ish) part of the season that threw just that issue into the public arena.
I am not certain of the exact date Lee, but I remember noting the incident in the 1968 series I wrote for the board. You would be able to find it stored in the news archive somewhere.

During the early part of the 1968 season, Malcolm Allison announced that he had been offered, and had accepted the managers job at Coventry City. Maine Road went into meltdown and I remember clearly the Kippax in full voice singing for almost the whole of the next game (and with a lot of passion) "Stay, stay, stay, stay, Allison." City fans were in a panic at the thought of losing Big Mal who was absolutely worshipped. Far from Mal or Mecer being criticised for our record (almost identical to this season), they were both treated as Gods. Almost the other extreme to present day.

Please note that, even after this incident, they didn't consider the team to be complete and went on to sign Francis Lee, whom Joe called the final peice of the jigsaw. Today, we are not even 12 months into Mancini's reign, we know he wants to strengthen the attack yet some are not prepared to give that chance to fully develop his squad. I find it quite amazing.

Cheers for the info John, very interesting to read how the fans reacted all those years ago.

It would seem that, as pointed out in another thread, some of today's fans are behaving like spoilt brats and could learn a lot from previous generations.

[Blue Since 76]

Blue Since 76,

With regard to you reply on the 3pt comparison, Beefy kindly downrated the stats to 2pts and your argument fails. In fact the downrating makes this season even better in comparison.

I don't think the downrating makes my point wrong. If, for instance, the rules were now changed and it became 5 for a win, 3 for a score draw and 1 for a 0-0 draw, with an extra point for every time you scored 3 in a game, football would be turned on its head, in the way people would try and play. That is in effect what happened with 3 points for a win.

In '68, we got 84 points in today's money, but that was over 42 games. Doing a straight conversion to 38 games, that's just 76 points. If we stay on track with the '68 points total, we should make 4th and maybe 3rd, but it wouldn't be enough to win the league now. However, I suspect we'd have played differently in a few away games back then if there were an extra 2 points on offer and would have got the points needed.

Mancini appears to be stuck in a 2 points for a win timezone, where a draw isn't a bad result. These days it is, especially at home, where we've now had 3, 2 against poorer teams.

[Original Dub]

King Kev,
I can answer your question about the attitude of City fans and the media to Mercer and Allison with reasonable accuracy as there was an incident during the early (ish) part of the season that threw just that issue into the public arena.
I am not certain of the exact date Lee, but I remember noting the incident in the 1968 series I wrote for the board. You would be able to find it stored in the news archive somewhere.

During the early part of the 1968 season, Malcolm Allison announced that he had been offered, and had accepted the managers job at Coventry City. Maine Road went into meltdown and I remember clearly the Kippax in full voice singing for almost the whole of the next game (and with a lot of passion) "Stay, stay, stay, stay, Allison." City fans were in a panic at the thought of losing Big Mal who was absolutely worshipped. Far from Mal or Mecer being criticised for our record (almost identical to this season), they were both treated as Gods. Almost the other extreme to present day.

Please note that, even after this incident, they didn't consider the team to be complete and went on to sign Francis Lee, whom Joe called the final peice of the jigsaw. Today, we are not even 12 months into Mancini's reign, we know he wants to strengthen the attack yet some are not prepared to give that chance to fully develop his squad. I find it quite amazing.

Cheers for the info John, very interesting to read how the fans reacted all those years ago.

It would seem that, as pointed out in another thread, some of today's fans are behaving like spoilt brats and could learn a lot from previous generations.

There was a few spoilt brats knocking around this time last season as well.

they've calmed down now though and everything is rosey with similar points and worse football.... and of course a far better squad.

Weird.

[wolfcity]

Has a manager of a team who are 4th in the Premier League ever been sacked before?

Scolari at Chelsea? They must have been Top 4 at the time of his departure.

[King Kev]

Has a manager of a team who are 4th in the Premier League ever been sacked before?

Scolari at Chelsea? They must have been Top 4 at the time of his departure.

So long as we aren't the first to do it.

I would hate for our club to become a laughing stock for sacking managers.

[Ted Hughes]

Has a manager of a team who are 4th in the Premier League ever been sacked before?

Scolari at Chelsea? They must have been Top 4 at the time of his departure.

So long as we aren't the first to do it.

I would hate for our club to become a laughing stock for sacking managers.

Pre Premier League the rags used to do it. Then they stumbled upon the brilliant idea of leaving one bloke in charge..

[saulman]

Has a manager of a team who are 4th in the Premier League ever been sacked before?

Scolari at Chelsea? They must have been Top 4 at the time of his departure.

His target was to win the Prem. Not finish 4th.
He was sacked because it was clear that he wasn't going to win it.

[zuricity]

Geez, I know it's frustrating at the moment, we've seen some points lost, mainly through player errors ( Teves miss at sunderland etc), but I fail to see the need to change the manager again.

I didn't care for Hughes at all, but I was prepared to give him a full season at least, even though he had the poor spell of draws before being sacked. I certainly wasn't calling for his head during last season, even if I was not displeased that he was removed. I still felt he needed the whole season.

If the season targets aren't met and the owner wants to get red , so be it. Even if targets are met !

On another thread somewhere else, somebody said that Birmingham started with two attackers. Well, if the eleven men parked in their own penalty area included two strikers, they did a pretty good job of defending.

Nobody is going to roll over for us and since City aren't set up to cheat like Arsenal or United, it's going to be difficult and we must give the squad a chance and the Management team a chance.

At Christmas I expect to see City well established in the top four. If at that time it's not happening then I'm prepared to rethink my opinion on the project. However, if as reported we are going to be in for Dzeko and Torres. Then I think we would become a major force. Thee other three above us meet each other over the next few weeks and they have other tough games coming up as well. So we really need to crack on from here. The eight day break will help us too. Not all players will be playing in the Internationals next week.

[Lees Alter Ego]

For me sacking the manager is simply not an option. Stick with him till the end of the year and review it then. Another sacking mid season will only make us go backwards. Never before have I known a draw to be slammed so much. Don't get me wrong it was shit to watch but at least we are being negative and keeping clean sheets. I'd be more worried if, like under Pearce, we didn't score and still conceded.

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

I knew that Mancini was negative last season.
He had a free go at Arsenal and it didn't matter if we lost. He still went with one up front and got as a point. That resulted in Spurs coming to Eastlands not needing to win. That was one reason we missed out on the CL. Even if we'd lost it wouldn't have made any difference, and yet still Bobby couldn't go for it.
That is how his mindset is. If he couldn't do it then, when will he ever be able to?
I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think so.

[MaineRoadMemories]

I'm all for keeping him until the end of the season and then looking at our options to replace. I'm not surprised supporters are starting to question him though based upon last season's sacking as the reference point.

Cook came out with his first pumping on the desk embarrassment saying we were not on trajectory for the 70 points so Hughes had to go. Now if you believe that was the case he was sacked (BTW it wasn't!) then Mancini is on very thin ground.

Hughes was sacked after 17 games with a points total of 29. We are on game week 13. We have 22 points. Last season on game week 13 we also had 22 points.

So Mancini has 4 more games and needs to get more than 7 points from these games. He's more than capable seen as though we play Fulham, Stoke, Bolton and West Ham.

But you never know in footy, we'll probably get a draw with Hughes (for old times sake), lose to a physical Stoke side, get outclassed by a very confident looking Bolton and then 3 points against a dire, dire relegation bound West Ham.

Interesting times ahead for the city directorship team.

[DoomMerchant]

Fuck me, I thought this thread was a joke. Are people seriously considering wanting rid of Mancini?

We're in the top 4, 3 points behind the scum after 13 games!!!!


Are fans from other clubs as stupid as us?

3 pts behind the scum is satisfying? They are prollee the weakest that team has looked in years and years, after this week alone -- discounting all the other crap we've fucked up earlier in the season -- we should be above them i think if we'd done our job.

it was important to make a statement and get the 6 pts this week..it was there for us. And we got 2. Unimpressive.

cheers

[saulman]

Fuck me, I thought this thread was a joke. Are people seriously considering wanting rid of Mancini?

We're in the top 4, 3 points behind the scum after 13 games!!!!


Are fans from other clubs as stupid as us?

3 pts behind the scum is satisfying? They are prollee the weakest that team has looked in years and years, after this week alone -- discounting all the other crap we've fucked up earlier in the season -- we should be above them i think if we'd done our job.

it was important to make a statement and get the 6 pts this week..it was there for us. And we got 2. Unimpressive.

cheers

I don't buy that. As much as I hate them devil worshipping bastards and that purple-nosed, bullshitting cunt, I have to begrudgingly admit that they're not the spent force everyone is claiming they are. They've not been beaten all season and on Wednesday they gave us a lesson in dominating possession with one touch passing that we have struggled to achieve this season.

Whilst I think that we lost 2 points yesterday, I don't think we did on Wednesday. I don't think most rags reckon they lost 2 points either. I think that's a positive sign of where we are right now. So using them as a yardstick and staying within reach is satisfying, yes.

[Kladze]

They've not been beaten all season and on Wednesday they gave us a lesson in dominating possession with one touch passing that we have struggled to achieve this season.

Well said, you unintentionally made our point.

[Beefymcfc]

King Kev,
I can answer your question about the attitude of City fans and the media to Mercer and Allison with reasonable accuracy as there was an incident during the early (ish) part of the season that threw just that issue into the public arena.
I am not certain of the exact date Lee, but I remember noting the incident in the 1968 series I wrote for the board. You would be able to find it stored in the news archive somewhere.

During the early part of the 1968 season, Malcolm Allison announced that he had been offered, and had accepted the managers job at Coventry City. Maine Road went into meltdown and I remember clearly the Kippax in full voice singing for almost the whole of the next game (and with a lot of passion) "Stay, stay, stay, stay, Allison." City fans were in a panic at the thought of losing Big Mal who was absolutely worshipped. Far from Mal or Mecer being criticised for our record (almost identical to this season), they were both treated as Gods. Almost the other extreme to present day.

Please note that, even after this incident, they didn't consider the team to be complete and went on to sign Francis Lee, whom Joe called the final peice of the jigsaw. Today, we are not even 12 months into Mancini's reign, we know he wants to strengthen the attack yet some are not prepared to give that chance to fully develop his squad. I find it quite amazing.

Cheers for the info John, very interesting to read how the fans reacted all those years ago.

It would seem that, as pointed out in another thread, some of today's fans are behaving like spoilt brats and could learn a lot from previous generations.

Wait a minute, these are 2 total different scenario's. What has Mancio done to be compared to Allison?

[Beefymcfc]

It keeps being pointed out that we are this points and that points in front or behind our rivals. As anyone considered that we have just picked up 8 points from the last 18. That's just 1.33 points per game on form. I'm expecting a minimum 2 points per game from the next 6 otherwise on that form we'll be lucky to get a Europa spot.

[Im_Spartacus]

Has a manager of a team who are 4th in the Premier League ever been sacked before?

Scolari at Chelsea? They must have been Top 4 at the time of his departure.

So long as we aren't the first to do it.

I would hate for our club to become a laughing stock for sacking managers.

Pre Premier League the rags used to do it. Then they stumbled upon the brilliant idea of leaving one bloke in charge..

It depends on that one bloke actually being right for the job doesnt it. Personally I don't like the cunt, haven't liked him since he set his stall out in his very first game. Leopards don't change their spots - Mancini's approach is ultra-defensive and any suggestion this will change is nothing more than wishful thinking.

However, its a results business and like Hughes before him, the league position would suggest that he is capable of doing the job asked of him, eg, qualifying for the Champions League. Any manager will have blips at some point in the season on the way to that goal, but I suppose what is so frustrating with both Mancini and Hughes, was that the majority of their blips were entirely self inflicted by the ineptitude of the manager. Both managers had the very best squad of exceptionally talented players available, but persistently misused that squad.

AMancini is guilty of a far worse sin that "just" boring football, at the heart of the matter is that he is ripping us off. The debate could go on forever about what is most important, results or entertainment, but the fact is that fans of any sports club pay money week in week out to watch the games. I have to be honest, I am fucking fuming that I am wasting several hours of my week, and several hundred pounds on supposed "entertainment" that isn't even the slightest bit entertaining.

Football may be a sport, and a results business, but players and particularly managers have a responsibility to the mugs who fork out thousands and give unwavering support. This man has no idea of his responsibility to the fans.

I am at the point I was with Pearce, and that saw me give away my season-card until he was sacked. I can console myself that he could be gone in the summer, but I won't be wasting any more time going to the games whilst Mancini is still in charge.

And all of the above has nothing to do with the Birmingham / Rags game, it is a view I have long held after watching nearly a full year of this shit.