Are Everton the new City?

[guv111]

Or is that still us?

All that work and fortune against Chelsea in the previous round and the ultimate reward was humiliation at the hands of Brian McDermott's Championship team.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011 ... ing-fa-cup

That's exactly the sort of thing City have been doing for decades.

The problem is, that because we have been like that for years on end, older fans - at least - seem to have an ingrained pessimism, almost a depressive belief that however rich we are we still have the capacity to fuck up spectacularly. Yes, we may have vast sums at our disposal, theoretically, but are we now just a far wealthier version of our old selves, several places higher up the table but still far from being genuine contenders? This season has so far been little better than last, and if we don't get at least one final (FA Cup/Europa League) to show for it we will have basically been treading water for a year.

The question is: Are you a happy City fan now, or basically the same as you were years ago, and the money has just given you another reason to be disappointed?

[bigblue]

The question is: Are you a happy City fan now, or basically the same as you were years ago, and the money has just given you another reason to be disappointed?

I'm feeling fuckin great! We got the players, manager, stadium, fans, character, and soon to be trophies. City to rule the world!

[john68]

Guv, I don't doubt your love for City mate but I find it difficult to remember when you have ever posted anything that mentions City in a positive light. You are one of the best examples of ingrained pessimism. Please give your head a wobble mate.

Your premise of City is totally wrong. We haven't always fucked up and all clubs have their "typical" moments. We just seem to have made that reputation our own for some reason. Throughout our history, (apart from a few odd periods here and there) we can quite rightly be considered as a large and successful club.
Our failures began in the 1980s and were due to bad financial management and planning. Those reasons have now been removed and no longer apply. from a position of near administration and mid table obscurity only a few seasons ago, we are now sat 3rd in the league and remain in the latter stages of 2 major cup competitions. Which bit of that is the typical city of your definition?

How long do you think is reasonable to build a title winning team? Considering that the rags took around 6-7 years before they became a force. Wenger merely kept a good side ticking over, then improved on it. Chelsae have been throwing money at the job well before Abramovich came along and Liverpool despite all their huge investments have gone backwards.

I suggest you take a lok at a garden in winter....It looks desolate and you would think nothing is progressing. All the while underneath the soil, stuff is moving and working. It is only in the spring when the shoots come into the public gaze do we see the progress. The same with City...Whatever happens this season, lessoons will have been learned and despite what you may see, we will have progressed.

[john68]

Guv, I don't doubt your love for City mate but I find it difficult to remember when you have ever posted anything that mentions City in a positive light. You are one of the best examples of ingrained pessimism. Please give your head a wobble mate.

Your premise of City is totally wrong. We haven't always fucked up and all clubs have their "typical" moments. We just seem to have made that reputation our own for some reason. Throughout our history, (apart from a few odd periods here and there) we can quite rightly be considered as a large and successful club.
Our failures began in the 1980s and were due to bad financial management and planning. Those reasons have now been removed and no longer apply. from a position of near administration and mid table obscurity only a few seasons ago, we are now sat 3rd in the league and remain in the latter stages of 2 major cup competitions. Which bit of that is the typical city of your definition?

How long do you think is reasonable to build a title winning team? Considering that the rags took around 6-7 years before they became a force. Wenger merely kept a good side ticking over, then improved on it. Chelsae have been throwing money at the job well before Abramovich came along and Liverpool despite all their huge investments have gone backwards.

I suggest you take a lok at a garden in winter....It looks desolate and you would think nothing is progressing. All the while underneath the soil, stuff is moving and working. It is only in the spring when the shoots come into the public gaze do we see the progress. The same with City...Whatever happens this season, lessoons will have been learned and despite what you may see, we will have progressed.

[guv111]

You are one of the best examples of ingrained pessimism.

Well, that's to be expected (though I'd say I've posted a reasonable amount of positive stuff over the years). I'm in my forties and am depressive by nature, so most of my life has been lived in tandem with seeing City slip ever further downhill - until the last few years when we have had more luck than any fans could have dared believe possible. That's the point of my question, though, and you have made all of the good, positive points I know exist. I'm wondering, however, just how many people are as willing as myself to admit that decades of conditioning have left them permanently sceptical.

Please give your head a wobble mate.

I love that expression!

[Wooders]

we're not out the woods yet mate !

[john68]

I understand your plight Guv and believe me, I sympathise with you mate...but we have absolutely no reason to be pessimistic about City. When was the last time we entered this stage of a season with so much to play for? That is progress. Even if we don't get much further in any of the comps we are still in contention for, when was the last time we ever got this far?

We should be inside the ground tonight celebrating our progress and driving the team on to greater heights. we should be celebrating on here and other forums about the inevitability that soon...very soon, we will be overtaking some of the biggest and best clubs in the football World...Something that a few short seasons ago, we could have only dreamt about.

When was the last time we had players of the quality and talent of Silva, Tevez, etc in sky blue? And all we have to do is to turn up and it's all there in front of us to enjoy.

[guv111]

I understand your plight Guv and believe me, I sympathise with you mate...but we have absolutely no reason to be pessimistic about City. When was the last time we entered this stage of a season with so much to play for? That is progress. Even if we don't get much further in any of the comps we are still in contention for, when was the last time we ever got this far?

We should be inside the ground tonight celebrating our progress and driving the team on to greater heights. we should be celebrating on here and other forums about the inevitability that soon...very soon, we will be overtaking some of the biggest and best clubs in the football World...Something that a few short seasons ago, we could have only dreamt about.

When was the last time we had players of the quality and talent of Silva, Tevez, etc in sky blue? And all we have to do is to turn up and it's all there in front of us to enjoy.

Thanks for cheering me up, John. You're right; even being up there has virtually transformed us. Even Newcastle were talked about as being a "huge" club for a while just because they spent a few years in the top 5 or 6. This is the first time in 30 years I've known City being talked about in terms of the title. It's pretty heady, really.

[colonel_muck]

i must admit i was far more optimistic under hughes just because of the football we played. i have never been one to view a 1-0 win better than a 4-3 loss, i just want to be entertained when i'm at the ground, and on most occasions under mancini it is quite boring slow football, that seems to be getting results, but it disagrees with my own personal philosophy on the beautiful game. That said I can honestly say if I can have a day out at wembley (it's all i've ever wanted from city) that it will all be worth it. If i don't get that, I'll be calling for his head and to bring in Martin Jol. Then I'll be optimistic.

[Ted Hughes]

i must admit i was far more optimistic under hughes just because of the football we played. i have never been one to view a 1-0 win better than a 4-3 loss, i just want to be entertained when i'm at the ground, and on most occasions under mancini it is quite boring slow football, that seems to be getting results, but it disagrees with my own personal philosophy on the beautiful game. That said I can honestly say if I can have a day out at wembley (it's all i've ever wanted from city) that it will all be worth it. If i don't get that, I'll be calling for his head and to bring in Martin Jol. Then I'll be optimistic.

If they appoint Martin Jol, I'm going to kill him before he does any damage.

[Alioune DVToure]

The question is: Are you a happy City fan now, or basically the same as you were years ago, and the money has just given you another reason to be disappointed?

What's this then?:

Are Everton the new City?

I don't

a) See any parallels between the clubs whatsoever, or
b) Think that we have any reason whatsoever to be feeling anything but optimistic.

[guv111]

I can honestly say if I can have a day out at wembley (it's all i've ever wanted from city)

I love that part of your post. I'm sure you speak for thousands of City fans, myself included. Champions League-proper (that means winning any qualifier, if we finish 4th) would be nearly as good as seeing us lifting a cup, for me. Not quite, but very close. Potentially bigger reward, too, of course.

As far as I'm concerned, it really is head wobbling time. Five years ago I'd have been ecstatic just to finish in mid-table and beat the Rags, and it was a pretty regular thing. Now I find myself DEMANDING top four, and suddenly our Rag-beating prowess has disappeared. Why can't I have both? As some are saying, it might be in the FA Cup Final. Drool!

[guv111]

The question is: Are you a happy City fan now, or basically the same as you were years ago, and the money has just given you another reason to be disappointed?

What's this then?:

Are Everton the new City?

I don't

a) See any parallels between the clubs whatsoever, or
b) Think that we have any reason whatsoever to be feeling anything but optimistic.

Seriously? You don't see any parallels between City and Everton? Everton are pretty much the closest to a mirror image City have.

[Alioune DVToure]

The question is: Are you a happy City fan now, or basically the same as you were years ago, and the money has just given you another reason to be disappointed?

What's this then?:

Are Everton the new City?

I don't

a) See any parallels between the clubs whatsoever, or
b) Think that we have any reason whatsoever to be feeling anything but optimistic.

Seriously? You don't see any parallels between City and Everton? Everton are pretty much the closest to a mirror image City have.

In terms of where we were a few years ago and where they are now? No I don't get it. Everton have been a mediocre-to-good PL team since it began in '92 but have never hit the heights we're at now. We've been a shite PL team and a non-PL team for a good number of years since '92 and we're now destined for bigger things.

If you're looking for the club that traditionally has most in common with City, that's (another) different question. I wouldn't say Everton though.

[Fesan]

Surely they must deliver stuff like that for YEARS before becoming the new City eh?;-) Plus I doubt their fans have half the self-irony and humour we've developed over the years of torment!

[guv111]

You're right, Alioune DVToure . But it might be best not to shrug off a common 100-odd years because we have been rich for a short while. We're in no position to be smug, just yet. If we'd won as much as Everton (or Villa, for that matter) we wouldn't be getting those brainless "no history" jibes from the Scum. Sadly, our history is closer to Chelsea's than Everton's or Villa's, but we've always managed to appear bigger, like Newcastle. Now is the time to change that, and get back on track. It's long, long overdue.

[CitizenYank]

Nostradamus says: No we are not. End of thread.