Vieira

[Ted Hughes]

Barry had a bit of a shocker, passsing was piss poor.

I agree, his distribution was the worst I've seen from him this season. It was like he had his 'Villa game' today rather than midweek.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

Against Fullham he shored the midfield up and we gained control of the middle of the park in a game we struggled with in attack. Against Villa he was one of our best players and the years seem to fall off him - today, he tired in the 2nd half but still looked fresher than Barry and Yaya, who both did wonders for handing possession back to Wigan!

Have to agree with Doug though, the pace and movement in midfield is worrying.

Of course its slow in midfield - Barry is a fucking tortoise and Vieira is on his last legs and Yaya is....well I dont know what he is...goes from "wow....what a run" to "shit...lost it again" - unless we get someone in there that has more go about them we will always have a slow midfield.

Barry - seriously, he can fuck off in the Summer.. I'm sick of shouting at my TV screen.

I've been really tired watching Barry for a long time now. I don't want to sound like hater and I'm not saying he is midfield version of fucking Jo. But he was never fast and now he is simply slow. He can't do anything with the ball and often disappears completely.
We need better central midfield option in summer.

[john68]

Hhey Antti,
It's a bit rich you complaining about Barry being slow because he's tired...and then you admitting you're tired just watching him...FFS, Barry's the one doing the running about. You're just sat on your arse.

[zuricity]

Well for me Vieira was motm yesterday. He knew exactly what to do in all situations. Getting his body in to the tackle to draw a foul, good passing, read the game brilliantly, anticipating and breaking Wigans play up .

Slow midfield ? Well it might be a problem. What is a serious problem is that seven consecutive passes from Barry , not only resulted in the opposition being given the ball, but were passes made in the danger zone and therefore critical passes ( rag hater, something that statistics don't tell us eh ? ). Passes that hand the ball to Wigan for counter attacks. Fortunately, Wigan are crap and should be relegated as a consequence.

Also, it doesn't help much when Teves is not hitting form( I'll leave it at that , cos he's been very frustrating since he put his transfer request in).

I think Barry needs a rest, Milner needs to step up his game. However , I wouldn't want to be relying on Vieira as a regular starter,because of his age and because we are building for the future.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

Hhey Antti,
It's a bit rich you complaining about Barry being slow because he's tired...and then you admitting you're tired just watching him...FFS, Barry's the one doing the running about. You're just sat on your arse.

haha
I don't get paid to watch him though...... sometimes I think I should!

[Im_Spartacus]

I don't know if there was a difference in perception amongst those who watched on tv, and those who watched live, because I thought Vieira was exposed on a few occasions as being too slow to live with the Wigan midfield, and being caught in posession a few times in key areas just in front of the defence.

He wasn't solely to blame, and Barry gave him absolutely no help at all as Wigan frankly overran us in the 2nd half when neither gave any protection to the defence - but I thought yesterday just proved that although his mind is no doubt sharp as a tack, his body isnt upto it any more.

But we won, so I certainly won't slate the feller - he has been an "ok" stand in.

[Sister of fu]

City look like a team that is playing every 3 days and are crying out for a week without a game. There were patches yesterday where we looked ok and others where we were sapped of any energy and just couldn't keep possession of the ball.

I thought Paddy was one of the better players for us yesterday and was impressed with his astuteness in drawing tackles late on and relieving some of the pressure and gaining possession of the football. We are though lacking energy as a group but that's the price you pay for doing well.

[marvin]

Let's face it, he has recently showed why he was worth spot in the squad.

yes against Villa and Wigan he has been one of our best players

[Rag_hater]

Well for me Vieira was motm yesterday. He knew exactly what to do in all situations. Getting his body in to the tackle to draw a foul, good passing, read the game brilliantly, anticipating and breaking Wigans play up .

Slow midfield ? Well it might be a problem. What is a serious problem is that seven consecutive passes from Barry , not only resulted in the opposition being given the ball, but were passes made in the danger zone and therefore critical passes ( rag hater, something that statistics don't tell us eh ? ). Passes that hand the ball to Wigan for counter attacks. Fortunately, Wigan are crap and should be relegated as a consequence.

Also, it doesn't help much when Teves is not hitting form( I'll leave it at that , cos he's been very frustrating since he put his transfer request in).

I think Barry needs a rest, Milner needs to step up his game. However , I wouldn't want to be relying on Vieira as a regular starter,because of his age and because we are building for the future.

Well according to Guardian chalboards(which I think is believeable)the seven passes of a consecutive nature you mention don't exist.And from my recollection of the match I dont remember him doing seven consecutavley.According to the Guardian the 14 bad passes he made out of the 72 he tried non of them follow each other.So there is a stat for what you mention its just a case of how you interpret it and where you look.
The Guardian tell you every pass a player makes and what time and non of the missed passes have times directky after each other.
There may not be a stat for everything but there's one for that.Nice try.

[colonel_muck]

he was good yesterday, but i wouldn't say he's worth his place in the squad recently. generally he gives the ball away and doesn't know whats going on around him. he was good yesterday though.

[zuricity]

iPad ruined my reply!

Yes you are correct, passes are tallyed up, even those insignificant tip taps , the guys use to do nothing but waste time. I should have been clearer and referred to the types of passes playing the ball forward when in attacking positions. You know , those passes made at risk. At which ,regardless of the statistics, Barry was absolutely shocking at completing yesterday.

[Ted Hughes]

Well for me Vieira was motm yesterday. He knew exactly what to do in all situations. Getting his body in to the tackle to draw a foul, good passing, read the game brilliantly, anticipating and breaking Wigans play up .

Slow midfield ? Well it might be a problem. What is a serious problem is that seven consecutive passes from Barry , not only resulted in the opposition being given the ball, but were passes made in the danger zone and therefore critical passes ( rag hater, something that statistics don't tell us eh ? ). Passes that hand the ball to Wigan for counter attacks. Fortunately, Wigan are crap and should be relegated as a consequence.

Also, it doesn't help much when Teves is not hitting form( I'll leave it at that , cos he's been very frustrating since he put his transfer request in).

I think Barry needs a rest, Milner needs to step up his game. However , I wouldn't want to be relying on Vieira as a regular starter,because of his age and because we are building for the future.

Well according to Guardian chalboards(which I think is believeable)the seven passes of a consecutive nature you mention don't exist.And from my recollection of the match I dont remember him doing seven consecutavley.According to the Guardian the 14 bad passes he made out of the 72 he tried non of them follow each other.So there is a stat for what you mention its just a case of how you interpret it and where you look.
The Guardian tell you every pass a player makes and what time and non of the missed passes have times directky after each other.
There may not be a stat for everything but there's one for that.Nice try.

The Guardian chalkboard is sometimes wrong in some details but even if it is right in this case, what it can't describe is the effect & importance of certain passes. True, Barry probably didn't hit 7 passes one after the other to the oppo but he may well have hit 7 CRUCIAL passes directly to the oppo. The passes recorded inbetween, which show in the stats, may well have been simple, 'knocking it about' type passes, just keeping possession. The stats also don't record how badly a player fucked up when he lost the ball; whether he was trying an amazing goal producing pass & got it slightly wrong, or the oppo's interception was brilliant or whether, as in Barry's case, he was just shit at playing a straightforward pass.

There was a period when it SEEMED that every time Barry tried to play an effective pass, he fucked it up & sometimes it caused us big problems. He didn't actually fuck up every single pass but he fucked up all the most important ones. There's no stat to describe that kind of thing & it's importance in the game at a particular moment can only be judged by watching the flow of the game & how his misplaced pass cocked up a possible good move & put pressure on his own team.

[Twobob]

he was good yesterday, but i wouldn't say he's worth his place in the squad recently. generally he gives the ball away and doesn't know whats going on around him. he was good yesterday though.

Would have to disagree with your reasoning there, yaya and barry were the worst offenders at times when we needed to keep possesion

[Rag_hater]

[quote="zuricity"]iPad ruined my reply!

Yes you are correct,





I like it when people say that.
Does that mean you were wrong?

[Rag_hater]

Well for me Vieira was motm yesterday. He knew exactly what to do in all situations. Getting his body in to the tackle to draw a foul, good passing, read the game brilliantly, anticipating and breaking Wigans play up .

Slow midfield ? Well it might be a problem. What is a serious problem is that seven consecutive passes from Barry , not only resulted in the opposition being given the ball, but were passes made in the danger zone and therefore critical passes ( rag hater, something that statistics don't tell us eh ? ). Passes that hand the ball to Wigan for counter attacks. Fortunately, Wigan are crap and should be relegated as a consequence.

Also, it doesn't help much when Teves is not hitting form( I'll leave it at that , cos he's been very frustrating since he put his transfer request in).

I think Barry needs a rest, Milner needs to step up his game. However , I wouldn't want to be relying on Vieira as a regular starter,because of his age and because we are building for the future.

Well according to Guardian chalboards(which I think is believeable)the seven passes of a consecutive nature you mention don't exist.And from my recollection of the match I dont remember him doing seven consecutavley.According to the Guardian the 14 bad passes he made out of the 72 he tried non of them follow each other.So there is a stat for what you mention its just a case of how you interpret it and where you look.
The Guardian tell you every pass a player makes and what time and non of the missed passes have times directky after each other.
There may not be a stat for everything but there's one for that.Nice try.

The Guardian chalkboard is sometimes wrong in some details but even if it is right in this case, what it can't describe is the effect & importance of certain passes. True, Barry probably didn't hit 7 passes one after the other to the oppo but he may well have hit 7 CRUCIAL passes directly to the oppo. The passes recorded inbetween, which show in the stats, may well have been simple, 'knocking it about' type passes, just keeping possession. The stats also don't record how badly a player fucked up when he lost the ball; whether he was trying an amazing goal producing pass & got it slightly wrong, or the oppo's interception was brilliant or whether, as in Barry's case, he was just shit at playing a straightforward pass.

There was a period when it SEEMED that every time Barry tried to play an effective pass, he fucked it up & sometimes it caused us big problems. He didn't actually fuck up every single pass but he fucked up all the most important ones. There's no stat to describe that kind of thing & it's importance in the game at a particular moment can only be judged by watching the flow of the game & how his misplaced pass cocked up a possible good move & put pressure o
n his own team.

That's the case in every game.All players fuck up.Even Xavi who is one of the best passers if not the best has a % of 92.So even a few times he fucks up.If Barry's passes where only to make sure we kept the ball then I think he did his job ok.Its not his job to find or create dangerous moves.
Personally I don't think yesterday was one of Barry or Patrick's better games but we won so the critisism the team is coming in for and certain players I feel is unfounded.At least he tried and they didn't score so no harm was done.

[colonel_muck]

he was good yesterday, but i wouldn't say he's worth his place in the squad recently. generally he gives the ball away and doesn't know whats going on around him. he was good yesterday though.

Would have to disagree with your reasoning there, yaya and barry were the worst offenders at times when we needed to keep possesion

i didn't say he was the worst. seriously don't get me started on yaya!

[Ted Hughes]

Well for me Vieira was motm yesterday. He knew exactly what to do in all situations. Getting his body in to the tackle to draw a foul, good passing, read the game brilliantly, anticipating and breaking Wigans play up .

Slow midfield ? Well it might be a problem. What is a serious problem is that seven consecutive passes from Barry , not only resulted in the opposition being given the ball, but were passes made in the danger zone and therefore critical passes ( rag hater, something that statistics don't tell us eh ? ). Passes that hand the ball to Wigan for counter attacks. Fortunately, Wigan are crap and should be relegated as a consequence.

Also, it doesn't help much when Teves is not hitting form( I'll leave it at that , cos he's been very frustrating since he put his transfer request in).

I think Barry needs a rest, Milner needs to step up his game. However , I wouldn't want to be relying on Vieira as a regular starter,because of his age and because we are building for the future.

Well according to Guardian chalboards(which I think is believeable)the seven passes of a consecutive nature you mention don't exist.And from my recollection of the match I dont remember him doing seven consecutavley.According to the Guardian the 14 bad passes he made out of the 72 he tried non of them follow each other.So there is a stat for what you mention its just a case of how you interpret it and where you look.
The Guardian tell you every pass a player makes and what time and non of the missed passes have times directky after each other.
There may not be a stat for everything but there's one for that.Nice try.

The Guardian chalkboard is sometimes wrong in some details but even if it is right in this case, what it can't describe is the effect & importance of certain passes. True, Barry probably didn't hit 7 passes one after the other to the oppo but he may well have hit 7 CRUCIAL passes directly to the oppo. The passes recorded inbetween, which show in the stats, may well have been simple, 'knocking it about' type passes, just keeping possession. The stats also don't record how badly a player fucked up when he lost the ball; whether he was trying an amazing goal producing pass & got it slightly wrong, or the oppo's interception was brilliant or whether, as in Barry's case, he was just shit at playing a straightforward pass.

There was a period when it SEEMED that every time Barry tried to play an effective pass, he fucked it up & sometimes it caused us big problems. He didn't actually fuck up every single pass but he fucked up all the most important ones. There's no stat to describe that kind of thing & it's importance in the game at a particular moment can only be judged by watching the flow of the game & how his misplaced pass cocked up a possible good move & put pressure o
n his own team.

That's the case in every game.All players fuck up.Even Xavi who is one of the best passers if not the best has a % of 92.So even a few times he fucks up.If Barry's passes where only to make sure we kept the ball then I think he did his job ok.Its not his job to find or create dangerous moves.
Personally I don't think yesterday was one of Barry or Patrick's better games but we won so the critisism the team is coming in for and certain players I feel is unfounded.At least he tried and they didn't score so no harm was done.

Well that's your opinion & you're entitled to it but I thought we were embarrassing in the 2nd half . I've seen us lose to teams like Wigan in the past but if you were at the ground, it was glaringly obvious how much more pace they had in their team & how much quicker they were moving the ball, 2nd half. We sometimes lose to teams like Wigan but it's not often they look like better sides than us on our own pitch.

Both Wigan & Fulham looked like better teams than us in the 2nd half.

[zuricity]

iPad ruined my reply!

Yes you are correct,

I like it when people say that.
Does that mean you were wrong?

Read my comment ! Also, I think Ted has spent more time expanding om my point and he is correct.
If the statisticians that record this stuff could also differentiate between, say time wasting passes, attacking passes, pass to restore order, pass to save my arse because I've dribbled too much ( perfect for teves), pass to goalie to keep the poor sod involved, or pass to goalie to hoof it to the opposition cos we're in panic mode ( especially seen against the rags in time added on for injuries in the second half).
If they could do that, then there would be no wars would there ?
I think in writing, you were correct,I am implying I got it wrong in how I should have explained myself better.
I'm man enough and old enough to admit I make mistakes ..... Are you rh?

The iPad is great for many things, but shit for scrolling these comments and for correcting mistakes and unlike many on here, I don't like to make spelling or grammar mistakes if possible. I'm sick and tired of reading "should of", what do the English teachers do in school these days?

[Slim]

I didn't think any of our midfield stood out yesterday, maybe Yaya for his runs with the ball but they were asked to do a job which they were incapable of doing. How many times Wigan were through them in seconds was scary and this was WIGAN FFS. Vieira didn't play too badly when we had the ball but was often far too slow when he was tracking a player and left behind when a player ran at him with the ball. Not entirely sure what everyone else saw that turned a 6/10 into a motm performance but I almost get the feeling people are clutching at straws or basing their rating of him on a poorer performance from Barry.

Could have used a Milner, could have used a de Jong, could have used a Johnson, didn't get the job done but thank god Wigan are shit at finishing and Joe was in form.

[Rag_hater]

iPad ruined my reply!

Yes you are correct,

I like it when people say that.
Does that mean you were wrong?

Read my comment ! Also, I think Ted has spent more time expanding om my point and he is correct.
If the statisticians that record this stuff could also differentiate between, say time wasting passes, attacking passes, pass to restore order, pass to save my arse because I've dribbled too much ( perfect for teves), pass to goalie to keep the poor sod involved, or pass to goalie to hoof it to the opposition cos we're in panic mode ( especially seen against the rags in time added on for injuries in the second half).
If they could do that, then there would be no wars would there ?
I think in writing, you were correct,I am implying I got it wrong in how I should have explained myself better.
I'm man enough and old enough to admit I make mistakes ..... Are you rh?

The iPad is great for many things, but shit for scrolling these comments and for correcting mistakes and unlike many on here, I don't like to make spelling or grammar mistakes if possible. I'm sick and tired of reading "should of", what do the English teachers do in school these days?

I don't think what you say is what statistics are for.For me they are information to enhance or detract from what I am spectating.
I don't see them as a substiute for what I view simply to confirm a point I am trying to make.And if your trying to make or get a point across I see them as an aid that can help if it comes independant source I think the case for argument is less.For me if statistics is the sole source of information then you are right it is a flawed argument but if they are used as an addition to what somebody has witnessed then surely any additional information is beneficial.