Mancini - 50 Not Out

[Ted Hughes]

Sorry you should have mentioned it was purely an arse kissing exercise & we're not supposed to discuss whether we think he has any faults or not.

I was just pointing out that there is already a thread in place for people who want to discuss the tiredness issue.

Keep smiling.

I am smiling. I want these other miserable twats to smile with me & talk about great opportunities ahead rather than being tired.

[carl_feedthegoat]

Sorry you should have mentioned it was purely an arse kissing exercise & we're not supposed to discuss whether we think he has any faults or not.

I was just pointing out that there is already a thread in place for people who want to discuss the tiredness issue.

Keep smiling.

I am smiling. I want these other miserable twats to smile with me & talk about great opportunities ahead rather than being tired.

Thats the thing Ted - I am shouting to the rafters to get the attitude to change to a fucking winners attitude and I'm getting grief for it!!

You couldn't make it up. !

[BobKowalski]

Bob,
I usually quite enjoy reading your posts. Often I disagree with you but usually find them amusing. You are an excellent wordsmith and often win your arguments by sleight of word...and nothing up your sleeve. While mere mortals as Doug and Ted are thumping the words upfield in the hope they find the net, you David Silva them by your twisting and turning humour, flicking the words through your legs and speeding off into the next thread.
But, if for a moment you will stop and put your foot on your dictionary to stop it rolling away, You may find time to enlighten us as to how you reach the conclusion that "the loser mentality is hardwired into our club"...?

Which particular department is hard wired to lose?...Is our Esteemed Sheik? I suspeect not..nor our other estemmed Sheik...Nah! Could it be the administration of Cookie or Marwood? Both seem to steeped in success. What about Mancini or his coaching staff? Certainly not Mancini, he's been successful wherever he's been and I can't think that he would deliberately employ losers to eradicate failure...that would be silly. That only leaves the players...but who? Most of our players are quite new and have only been clocking on in blue since we started our climb upwards. Maybe Hart or Micah?...No I don't think so either.

The only part of City that is hardwired for failure is contained within a large group of fans...and God knows I've done my best to change that mentality. No Bob, there are no failures at City...plenty of winners...no hardwiing for failure...just a football club on the way up, reaching out and getting ever nearer to success.

...and that was only after reading your 1st paragraph.

I take your point.

My reference to the 'loser mentality hardwired' was more about pre Sheikh Mansour rather than post takeover. I do think it took them about a year to assess City properly but certainly over the last year or so the level of professionalism has risen dramatically. The way we handle transfer business, media management, even the way we handled the Tevez saga was impressive. Coolly, no hint of panic and no need for Roberto to take to the airwaves and sob dramatically.

No question that City these days is light years from what it was and the 'loser mentality' is being deep cleansed from the club. Rereading my post I can see why you took exception as my point was clumsily made.

[Original Dub]

Hoepfully Mancini has us fired up for the run in, because if being 9 points of the leaders is good enough motivation to have Chelsea fired up, then there is absolutely no excuse for us not going for it when we're only 7 off... no matter how you paint it up, excuses of any kind do not help at the business end of the season.

Fucking tiredness. Please.

[Rag_hater]

I don't see why Bobby saying the players are tired has got so many peoples knickers in a twist.
Surely people weren't expecting him say he maybe got the selection wrong his substitutions,tactics etc...
Obviously it would be better to say the players are a bit tired and hence we are not playing as well as we should be on paper or in peoples heads.
He maybe deflecting attention but to stay more than 50 not out what else was he to do.Admit whats wrong (if anything).That would be a suicidal.
Better to blame the fixture list the way I see it.

[Ted Hughes]

I don't see why Bobby saying the players are tired has got so many peoples knickers in a twist.
Surely people weren't expecting him say he maybe got the selection wrong his substitutions,tactics etc...
Obviously it would be better to say the players are a bit tired and hence we are not playing as well as we should be on paper or in peoples heads.
He maybe deflecting attention but to stay more than 50 not out what else was he to do.Admit whats wrong (if anything).That would be a suicidal.
Better to blame the fixture list the way I see it.

We won.

We have loads of exciting games coming up. He could just talk positively about that & how good it is to be in that position rather than not be. If he has to mention tiredness, he could say, we we're a bit tired but we'll be ok because so is everyone else, rather than shrugging his shoulders & replying to questions about upcoming games as if he expects us to lose some of them & our task is almost impossible, which is what he did in the interview I saw. No need to mention the negative stuff at all.

We should be showing our opponents a front which is positive & confident, not acting like losers.

[Original Dub]

Its a fact that the more you talk about something, the more it sets in as a mindset. If you're surrounded by people in a room telling you how tired they are, you'll feed off that energy (or lack of it).

Every interview Wenger (& Baconface when he's available to comment!) gives after a below par performance is ulitmately positive going forward. If you pay close attention, you will see in every interview, Wenger nearly always mentions the words "quality" and "belief" - even in defeat.

There HAS to be an absolute BELIEF in what we are trying to achieve and that has to be expressed from top to bottom in the build up and aftermath of EVERY game if we want to achieve the highest goals, because mentality is infectious.

Don't tell people you're tired every week, because even if you're not, it will give the opposition belief. IMO we should be telling every cunt that tiredness isn't a factor whan you're as pumped up and strong as this club is.

[Rag_hater]

The tirdness and injuries issue just strikes me as Bobby getting his excuses in quick.
If all goes well and we get a bit of luck,Bobby will be a hero overcoming the adversities we have had to endure.
If it goes a bit Pete Tong,Bobby has already told us why.
Its great having noble ideas about not showing any weeknesses is the way to win things but in the real world things are a bit different.

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

Through to the last 16 of the Europa...pretty much as expected. Nothing special.
Delighted with an FA Semi final chance but Notts, Leicester and Villa, the Reading to come...Again as expected. Nothing special.
Carling Cup was a disgrace.
League situation... Top Four... as expected, Nothing special, in fact slightly disappointing.
Still don't trust Bobby properly even though I do quite like him.
If he went tomorrow, I wouldn't be bothered. And whether Hughes would be doing better than him now, is debatable.
All in all....Underwhelmed.

[BobKowalski]

Through to the last 16 of the Europa...pretty much as expected. Nothing special.
Delighted with an FA Semi final chance but Notts, Leicester and Villa, the Reading to come...Again as expected. Nothing special.
Carling Cup was a disgrace.
League situation... Top Four... as expected, Nothing special, in fact slightly disappointing.
Still don't trust Bobby properly even though I do quite like him.
If he went tomorrow, I wouldn't be bothered. And whether Hughes would be doing better than him now, is debatable.
All in all....Underwhelmed.

I bet you're a laugh a minute kind of guy :)

Sometimes I think I have wandered into a Sylvia Plath Appreciation forum by mistake. Luckily the sight of Ted Hughes is enough to snap me out of it.

[aaron bond]

Through to the last 16 of the Europa...pretty much as expected. Nothing special.
Delighted with an FA Semi final chance but Notts, Leicester and Villa, the Reading to come...Again as expected. Nothing special.
Carling Cup was a disgrace.
League situation... Top Four... as expected, Nothing special, in fact slightly disappointing.
Still don't trust Bobby properly even though I do quite like him.
If he went tomorrow, I wouldn't be bothered. And whether Hughes would be doing better than him now, is debatable.
All in all....Underwhelmed.

Jesus! We're potentially having the most successful season in recent history and that's your attitude!

We might have invested loads in our squad and expectations level have risen, but it doesn't give us an automatic right to get to the last 16 of the Europa, quarter finals of FA Cup or sit in 3rd position as we are currently. We've had to earn it and so far we have. Yes, there is still a long way to go but things are going well all in all.

I'm not saying you have to love Mancini, he doesn't do everything the way I would ideally like, but you really should enjoy the season, as from your post it really doesn't sound like you are!

[BobKowalski]

... Wenger nearly always mentions the words "quality" and "belief" - even in defeat.

Well in fairness he's had a lot of practice lately.

Also since they keep bottling the big games I'm not sure Arsenal are the best example. In fact I am pretty sure that if we did balls up a final like they did against Brum I doubt if you would be cheering Mancini's positive words about 'quality' and 'belief'. Lets be honest you would be calling Mancini a 'cunt' and demanding he be sacked.

[aaron bond]

... Wenger nearly always mentions the words "quality" and "belief" - even in defeat.

Well in fairness he's had a lot of practice lately.

Also since they keep bottling the big games I'm not sure Arsenal are the best example. In fact I am pretty sure that if we did balls up a final like they did against Brum I doubt if you would be cheering Mancini's positive words about 'quality' and 'belief'. Lets be honest you would be calling Mancini a 'cunt' and demanding he be sacked.

If you talk about 'quality' and 'belief' in interviews a lot, it breeds a winning mentality. Hence Arsenal's success in recent years...oh...wait a sec...

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

Through to the last 16 of the Europa...pretty much as expected. Nothing special.
Delighted with an FA Semi final chance but Notts, Leicester and Villa, the Reading to come...Again as expected. Nothing special.
Carling Cup was a disgrace.
League situation... Top Four... as expected, Nothing special, in fact slightly disappointing.
Still don't trust Bobby properly even though I do quite like him.
If he went tomorrow, I wouldn't be bothered. And whether Hughes would be doing better than him now, is debatable.
All in all....Underwhelmed.

Jesus! We're potentially having the most successful season in recent history and that's your attitude!

We might have invested loads in our squad and expectations level have risen, but it doesn't give us an automatic right to get to the last 16 of the Europa, quarter finals of FA Cup or sit in 3rd position as we are currently. We've had to earn it and so far we have. Yes, there is still a long way to go but things are going well all in all.

I'm not saying you have to love Mancini, he doesn't do everything the way I would ideally like, but you really should enjoy the season, as from your post it really doesn't sound like you are!

Oh come come come.
If we had lost to those sides in the Europa in two legged games or failed to qualify from that group it would have been a piss poor effort.
Likewise Leicester, Notts and a weak Villa team has been a gift, and again would have been a scandalous performance not to progress.
And no, I haven't particularly enjoyed this season.
Although I am excited about the F A Cup.
And I still feel we have underperformed in way too many games.

[Ted Hughes]

Its a fact that the more you talk about something, the more it sets in as a mindset. If you're surrounded by people in a room telling you how tired they are, you'll feed off that energy (or lack of it).

Every interview Wenger (& Baconface when he's available to comment!) gives after a below par performance is ulitmately positive going forward. If you pay close attention, you will see in every interview, Wenger nearly always mentions the words "quality" and "belief" - even in defeat.

There HAS to be an absolute BELIEF in what we are trying to achieve and that has to be expressed from top to bottom in the build up and aftermath of EVERY game if we want to achieve the highest goals, because mentality is infectious.

Don't tell people you're tired every week, because even if you're not, it will give the opposition belief. IMO we should be telling every cunt that tiredness isn't a factor whan you're as pumped up and strong as this club is.

I don't understand why people don't 'get' this. The alternative argument is that psychology in football doesn't exist & that there's nothing a manager can do or say that can have an effect on his team or on opponents.

[BobKowalski]

Its a fact that the more you talk about something, the more it sets in as a mindset. If you're surrounded by people in a room telling you how tired they are, you'll feed off that energy (or lack of it).

Every interview Wenger (& Baconface when he's available to comment!) gives after a below par performance is ulitmately positive going forward. If you pay close attention, you will see in every interview, Wenger nearly always mentions the words "quality" and "belief" - even in defeat.

There HAS to be an absolute BELIEF in what we are trying to achieve and that has to be expressed from top to bottom in the build up and aftermath of EVERY game if we want to achieve the highest goals, because mentality is infectious.

Don't tell people you're tired every week, because even if you're not, it will give the opposition belief. IMO we should be telling every cunt that tiredness isn't a factor whan you're as pumped up and strong as this club is.

I don't understand why people don't 'get' this. The alternative argument is that psychology in football doesn't exist & that there's nothing a manager can do or say that can have an effect on his team or on opponents.

Because we do get it. What we don't get is the bizarre assumption that Mancini's rather bland press conferences represent the sum total of his interaction with the players or that anything he does say to them during trainings sessions, pre match, post match or sharing a piss with them in the bog is somehow nullified by the fact that they are obsessing over what he said the day before in his presser. Like I doubt any of them even watch the fucking thing and in some cases as its all in English can even understand the fucking thing.

[Ted Hughes]

Its a fact that the more you talk about something, the more it sets in as a mindset. If you're surrounded by people in a room telling you how tired they are, you'll feed off that energy (or lack of it).

Every interview Wenger (& Baconface when he's available to comment!) gives after a below par performance is ulitmately positive going forward. If you pay close attention, you will see in every interview, Wenger nearly always mentions the words "quality" and "belief" - even in defeat.

There HAS to be an absolute BELIEF in what we are trying to achieve and that has to be expressed from top to bottom in the build up and aftermath of EVERY game if we want to achieve the highest goals, because mentality is infectious.

Don't tell people you're tired every week, because even if you're not, it will give the opposition belief. IMO we should be telling every cunt that tiredness isn't a factor whan you're as pumped up and strong as this club is.

I don't understand why people don't 'get' this. The alternative argument is that psychology in football doesn't exist & that there's nothing a manager can do or say that can have an effect on his team or on opponents.

Because we do get it. What we don't get is the bizarre assumption that Mancini's rather bland press conferences represent the sum total of his interaction with the players or that anything he does say to them during trainings sessions, pre match, post match or sharing a piss with them in the bog is somehow nullified by the fact that they are obsessing over what he said the day before in his presser. Like I doubt any of them even watch the fucking thing and in some cases as its all in English can even understand the fucking thing.

Well that's more utter bollocks isn't it? You really don't have an argument do you?

So, you know for a fact that every single footballer thinks like you? None of them will agree with what some of us are saying? Micah would be saying the same thing if he was playing under Ferguson or Mourinho? No club gains anything by presenting a positive front to the outside world & future opponents rather than a negative one? Future opponents are not influenced whatsoever by the image a club portrays & it never has any influence on their confidence? The supporters aren't more 'up' for the games when the team presents a confident face & their confidence doesn't then in turn help the players? Positive psychology in football is basically bollocks?

If I was to accept your point, (rather than ignoring it like you do with all of mine & even though I think it's nonsense ) that the players don't take any notice of him, can you explain then, exactly how Bob's comments are a good thing for the club, the attitude of supporters or the preception of our club by the opposition? How about the perception of our club in the media, improved by his comments? If you can't find ANY positives & can't properly address any of those points would it not be better for everyone concerned if he stopped fucking whinging about his problems & said something positive instead?

And by the way, the fact you don't consider any of those points whenever they come up means you definitely DON'T get it.

[BobKowalski]

Its a fact that the more you talk about something, the more it sets in as a mindset. If you're surrounded by people in a room telling you how tired they are, you'll feed off that energy (or lack of it).

Every interview Wenger (& Baconface when he's available to comment!) gives after a below par performance is ulitmately positive going forward. If you pay close attention, you will see in every interview, Wenger nearly always mentions the words "quality" and "belief" - even in defeat.

There HAS to be an absolute BELIEF in what we are trying to achieve and that has to be expressed from top to bottom in the build up and aftermath of EVERY game if we want to achieve the highest goals, because mentality is infectious.

Don't tell people you're tired every week, because even if you're not, it will give the opposition belief. IMO we should be telling every cunt that tiredness isn't a factor whan you're as pumped up and strong as this club is.

I don't understand why people don't 'get' this. The alternative argument is that psychology in football doesn't exist & that there's nothing a manager can do or say that can have an effect on his team or on opponents.

Because we do get it. What we don't get is the bizarre assumption that Mancini's rather bland press conferences represent the sum total of his interaction with the players or that anything he does say to them during trainings sessions, pre match, post match or sharing a piss with them in the bog is somehow nullified by the fact that they are obsessing over what he said the day before in his presser. Like I doubt any of them even watch the fucking thing and in some cases as its all in English can even understand the fucking thing.

Well that's more utter bollocks isn't it? You really don't have an argument do you?

So, you know for a fact that every single footballer thinks like you? None of them will agree with what some of us are saying? Micah would be saying the same thing if he was playing under Ferguson or Mourinho? No club gains anything by presenting a positive front to the outside world & future opponents rather than a negative one? Future opponents are not influenced whatsoever by the image a club portrays & it never has any influence on their confidence? The supporters aren't more 'up' for the games when the team presents a confident face & their confidence doesn't then in turn help the players? Positive psychology in football is basically bollocks?

If I was to accept your point, (rather than ignoring it like you do with all of mine & even though I think it's nonsense ) that the players don't take any notice of him, can you explain then, exactly how Bob's comments are a good thing for the club, the attitude of supporters or the preception of our club by the opposition? How about the perception of our club in the media, improved by his comments? If you can't find ANY positives & can't properly address any of those points would it not be better for everyone concerned if he stopped fucking whinging about his problems & said something positive instead?

Ok. For the umpteenth time.

A managers PC is invariably a bland affair in which stock answers are given. All games are difficult. We must be prepared, (insert name) are a good team, (insert name) is a good manager. It is good policy because you are not giving people ammunition to shoot you with later. What the manager says in private is going to be very different and what he says to the players is very different.

City's media management is very good these days - which is why you never hear from Garry Cook (well done Vicky) and the players will repeat the message of the day. That message at the moment is 'tiredness' which is just code for saying we are playing a lot of games so performances are going to be bit shit at times. Micah has also said that its great that we are playing in so many competitions and he is confident that City have a great chance of ending the trophy drought. Mancini also said that the players should be happy we are playing so many games because it means we are doing well so the message is twofold.

Now Taggart. And this is rich when it comes to Mancini 'whinging' because if one fucker has spent his fucking life 'whinging' it is taggart

Taggart has in his tenure blamed scheduling of games - either too early on a Saturday or too late on a Saturday (especially when rivals play first and win). He has accused the League of deliberately hampering MU in their quest for success. Taggart has 'whinged' about everything and everything including the fucking colour of MU's strip for a bad result/and poor performances. He has whinged about fixture pile up; playing too many games, international call ups, hostile media and referees. You name it. Taggart has 'whinged' about it. For some reason this appears not to have dented (unfortunately) MU's ability to win trophies.

Now maybe you prefer taggart's whinging and that you will be okay when we get badly beaten if Mancini uses the colour of our strip as the reason why. I don't know. Only you can answer that.

How does all this impact on the opposition? Well if Kiev think we are too shagged to get off the plane maybe they will relax and underestimate us. Unfortunately I suspect they will not pay a blind bit of attention and come at us hard and will do so no matter what Mancini says because they know we are a very solid team and a very difficult team to beat.

The fans are a different matter because all we want to hear is good news and reassurance. We need reassurance because we are terrified its all going to go tits and people will be back to laughing at us. The fans are pretty much a basket case and any hint, sign, statement that things are a bit tough and we go into meltdown mode and we project that onto the players.

I doubt if Mancini fully understands this and I hope he doesn't because the last thing we need is the manager becoming a basket case along with the rest of us.

As to the perception of the club well that has changed from the beginning of the season. We are one of the big guns and taggart now plays a proper team against us unlike against the dippers. The media may have moaned about negativity and all that bollocks but it has worked. We are a solid unit and we will only get better. Results and performances have changed this. Winning away games has changed this. 13 clean sheets in the PL has changed this. A big powerful side difficult to beat is what you most hear and it is true. We are.

Mancini moaning about too many games is no big deal because every top team fucking moans about it at some stage. Mourinho blamed tiredness for a 0-0 draw the other week. Is that giving excuses to his players? Or just giving the press something to focus on?

Whatever this subject has been done to death. We disagree. You want to whip yourself into a frenzy over it then knock yourself out. I'm off for a curry and a chilled Sancerre

[Slim]

Taggart has in his tenure blamed scheduling of games - either too early on a Saturday or too late on a Saturday (especially when rivals play first and win). He has accused the League of deliberately hampering MU in their quest for success. Taggart has 'whinged' about everything and everything including the fucking colour of MU's strip for a bad result/and poor performances. He has whinged about fixture pile up; playing too many games, international call ups, hostile media and referees. You name it. Taggart has 'whinged' about it. For some reason this appears not to have dented (unfortunately) MU's ability to win trophies.

While your post has many many holes in it, it's very long and I can't really be arsed replying to the lot. I would like to point out however that Mancini has had his whinge and put it firmly on the players themselves. Whether it be scheduling, an FA conspiracy or such, he has outwardly stated it's the players who are tired.

Taggart as you have listed, goes to great lengths to blame everyone under the sun except his players.

You can argue it's semantics, that there is a causal effect there and you may have a point, but do you think it's my accident or design that Bacon does this?

[13021J]

I can't see David Silva going home after training and logging onto the OS to watch Mancini's press conferences and then this forming the basis of his level of morale etc - in fact many footballers don't even read the papers (lack of literacy skills?).

I think the one-on-one interactions around training and match days are what really counts.

Press conferences are bland and just an exercise in not saying anything controversial and dropping the club/players/yourself in it i.e. a minefield.

Having said that Mancini's pressers are very formulaic and estra bland, but it is funny to see him giving an answer to a question that was never asked and then the interviewer hesitates to delve deeper due to his 'broken' English - sneeky sneeky