When it matters, he can not deliver!

[Im_Spartacus]

@ Blue Since 76,
In 6 years time City will be stratospheric mate. Trust me Pal, I'm a cab driver and we know everything and I wouldn't lie to you...(would I?). So go and get yer 6 years season ticket.
We are most certainly a project...a fuclin huge one. Probably the biggest football project in the World and despite your protestations, you can offer no evidence to the contrary.

City is a project like no other and this phase is merely the 1st rung on a temporary ladder. let's put it like this...In the winter, you plant the bulbs in the garden. For a long time, the garden looks barren...and you think nothing is happening. Do you think fuck it and dig them all up again to chuck away, or do you wait until the time is right and the 1st shoots start to sprout?

Our reality is that we have barely just begun. What you see now is not what you saw last season...and it won't be what you will be watching next season. Teams take time...Don't dig the bulbs up before they have had chance to sprout.

If you planted bulbs three years ago and nothing was growing, you wouldn't dig them up to find out why?

Analogies in these situations are stupid, but unfortunately for those preaching the same line you did last year and the year before, it's all you have left. I get the feeling you'd be good standing in the trenches back in 1915 saying things like "hold the line" and "stay the course". Essentially making a shitload of noise while saying absolutely fucking nothing.

Some really good debate in this thread, but I can't help going back to something I came across whilst rowing with a rag a few weeks back - because "changing managers doesn't work" is frankly a myth.

Since the arguments for managerial stability usually revolve around the Baconface situation at Old Trafford, I think it is important to understand that he is a one off.....a single example of a club sticking with a manager and it paying off. What is NEVER documented or argues though are the number of clubs who have suffered because of loyalty and trust to an incompetent fuckwit.

The fact of the matter is though, that other clubs have success, and other clubs change their manager. During baconface's tenure:

AC Milan have won 25 trophies including 5 Champions League/European Cups, and had 15 managers
Real Madrid have won 27 trophies and had 25 manager

So I would say that quite clearly - with the very notable exception of Ferguson who had the unbeatable combination of being arguably the most talented manager in history alongside a "golden generation of players" that were the mainstay of his side for a decade, it is the quality of players that is the major factor in winning tropies - the manager, I personally believe is simply the one who sets the direction for the team.

This leads me to believe that if you have the proven quality in your squad, and you are not successful, it is the manager holding the players back that is the problem. Who, when watching us play over the last 15 months, could say, hand on heart, that they feel Mancini's style of play is the right one for this group of players?

That will lead you to the answer that unfortunately, he has never been, and will never be, the right manager to take this club forward

All his work of the last 15 months have been leading to this point, and it is looking likely, based on league and cup form (Villa aside) that we we will bottle it when it comes to the crunch. If that is the case, then there is little reason to keep him - as that was also his failing at Inter, and inability to cope with pressure in big games

[Rag_hater]

@ Blue Since 76,
In 6 years time City will be stratospheric mate. Trust me Pal, I'm a cab driver and we know everything and I wouldn't lie to you...(would I?). So go and get yer 6 years season ticket.
We are most certainly a project...a fuclin huge one. Probably the biggest football project in the World and despite your protestations, you can offer no evidence to the contrary.

City is a project like no other and this phase is merely the 1st rung on a temporary ladder. let's put it like this...In the winter, you plant the bulbs in the garden. For a long time, the garden looks barren...and you think nothing is happening. Do you think fuck it and dig them all up again to chuck away, or do you wait until the time is right and the 1st shoots start to sprout?

Our reality is that we have barely just begun. What you see now is not what you saw last season...and it won't be what you will be watching next season. Teams take time...Don't dig the bulbs up before they have had chance to sprout.

If you planted bulbs three years ago and nothing was growing, you wouldn't dig them up to find out why?

Analogies in these situations are stupid, but unfortunately for those preaching the same line you did last year and the year before, it's all you have left. I get the feeling you'd be good standing in the trenches back in 1915 saying things like "hold the line" and "stay the course". Essentially making a shitload of noise while saying absolutely fucking nothing.

Some really good debate in this thread, but I can't help going back to something I came across whilst rowing with a rag a few weeks back - because "changing managers doesn't work" is frankly a myth.

Since the arguments for managerial stability usually revolve around the Baconface situation at Old Trafford, I think it is important to understand that he is a one off.....a single example of a club sticking with a manager and it paying off. What is NEVER documented or argues though are the number of clubs who have suffered because of loyalty and trust to an incompetent fuckwit.

The fact of the matter is though, that other clubs have success, and other clubs change their manager. During baconface's tenure:

AC Milan have won 25 trophies including 5 Champions League/European Cups, and had 15 managers
Real Madrid have won 27 trophies and had 25 manager

So I would say that quite clearly - with the very notable exception of Ferguson who had the unbeatable combination of being arguably the most talented manager in history alongside a "golden generation of players" that were the mainstay of his side for a decade, it is the quality of players that is the major factor in winning tropies - the manager, I personally believe is simply the one who sets the direction for the team.

This leads me to believe that if you have the proven quality in your squad, and you are not successful, it is the manager holding the players back that is the problem. Who, when watching us play over the last 15 months, could say, hand on heart, that they feel Mancini's style of play is the right one for this group of players?

That will lead you to the answer that unfortunately, he has never been, and will never be, the right manager to take this club forward

All his work of the last 15 months have been leading to this point, and it is looking likely, based on league and cup form (Villa aside) that we we will bottle it when it comes to the crunch. If that is the case, then there is little reason to keep him - as that was also his failing at Inter, and inability to cope with pressure in big games

Spot on.
All this stuff about stability makes no sense.
Despite what the stability crowd say we have improved by changing managers since Sven and I think we will improve if we get somebody different again.
Its all about money.
Sven's team was better tha pearce's team.
Hughes team was better than Svens team,
Bobby's team is better than Hughes team so by that logic the next manager we get will improve on Bobby.
Stability doesn't work.
Change at the right time is the way to win things.
To me it looks as if Bobby has taken us as far as he can now it is time for someone new.
Like the op say's when it matter he is coming up short and therefore time for him to go.

[Ted Hughes]

@ Blue Since 76,
In 6 years time City will be stratospheric mate. Trust me Pal, I'm a cab driver and we know everything and I wouldn't lie to you...(would I?). So go and get yer 6 years season ticket.
We are most certainly a project...a fuclin huge one. Probably the biggest football project in the World and despite your protestations, you can offer no evidence to the contrary.

City is a project like no other and this phase is merely the 1st rung on a temporary ladder. let's put it like this...In the winter, you plant the bulbs in the garden. For a long time, the garden looks barren...and you think nothing is happening. Do you think fuck it and dig them all up again to chuck away, or do you wait until the time is right and the 1st shoots start to sprout?

Our reality is that we have barely just begun. What you see now is not what you saw last season...and it won't be what you will be watching next season. Teams take time...Don't dig the bulbs up before they have had chance to sprout.

If you planted bulbs three years ago and nothing was growing, you wouldn't dig them up to find out why?

Analogies in these situations are stupid, but unfortunately for those preaching the same line you did last year and the year before, it's all you have left. I get the feeling you'd be good standing in the trenches back in 1915 saying things like "hold the line" and "stay the course". Essentially making a shitload of noise while saying absolutely fucking nothing.

Some really good debate in this thread, but I can't help going back to something I came across whilst rowing with a rag a few weeks back - because "changing managers doesn't work" is frankly a myth.

Since the arguments for managerial stability usually revolve around the Baconface situation at Old Trafford, I think it is important to understand that he is a one off.....a single example of a club sticking with a manager and it paying off. What is NEVER documented or argues though are the number of clubs who have suffered because of loyalty and trust to an incompetent fuckwit.

The fact of the matter is though, that other clubs have success, and other clubs change their manager. During baconface's tenure:

AC Milan have won 25 trophies including 5 Champions League/European Cups, and had 15 managers
Real Madrid have won 27 trophies and had 25 manager

So I would say that quite clearly - with the very notable exception of Ferguson who had the unbeatable combination of being arguably the most talented manager in history alongside a "golden generation of players" that were the mainstay of his side for a decade, it is the quality of players that is the major factor in winning tropies - the manager, I personally believe is simply the one who sets the direction for the team.

This leads me to believe that if you have the proven quality in your squad, and you are not successful, it is the manager holding the players back that is the problem. Who, when watching us play over the last 15 months, could say, hand on heart, that they feel Mancini's style of play is the right one for this group of players?

That will lead you to the answer that unfortunately, he has never been, and will never be, the right manager to take this club forward

All his work of the last 15 months have been leading to this point, and it is looking likely, based on league and cup form (Villa aside) that we we will bottle it when it comes to the crunch. If that is the case, then there is little reason to keep him - as that was also his failing at Inter, and inability to cope with pressure in big games

The key is money, obviously. Ferguson had it, the teams you mention have it, we have it, therefore we will be succussful eventually. The difference between Ferguson & most managers of those clubs is that Ferguson built his title winning side from scratch. The others all took over sides where most of the building work had already been done. Even though Wenger transformed Arsenal, their defensive philosophy had been beaten into them with a big stick by George Graham & Wenger provided the attacking side. Now all of GG's influence has worn off, he can't build a back 4 to save his life & if he wins anything it will only be because the oppo isn't good enough to exploit it.

Bob however, is a manager who built a side & won titles, which is why he's been given the task of doing it here. I thought his Inter side was nothing special but it won titles & he built it, so he must know something. I agree with John, that 5 years from now we'll be brilliant, however if Bob is to be the manager that sees it through, he has to perform to a cetain level now. People can kiss his arse when he gets everything wrong & pretend that they think it's all nothing to worry about, but there are people above him who aren't kissing his arse; they're evaluating him. If he's to be the bloke who's in charge 5 years from now, he has to perform to a decent level for the rest of this season. Recently, he's fallen below that level & needs to pick it back up. If he doesn't, he hasn't got a cat in hell's chance. He has to perform; now. I hope he does.

[Rag_hater]

Sticking with Rafa did the dippers a load of good.
Whats sticking with Whinger done for the Arse the past 5/6 years.
The club that has been able to keep up with the rag fuckers is the one who changes it's manager and has money.Chelski.

[King Kev]

kk Do you actually follow football anywhere else other than England?

Not really. I'm a City fan rather than a football fan. Can't be arsed with International football (pointless), Serie A (bent), La Liga (slow) Bundesliga (boring), and I don't play computer games, I suppose that means my opinions are worthless.

Well in that case your "Why the hell would Jose come to us" is an opinion based on..... well fuck all then.




FYI he wants to come back to the UK - He is NOT happy in Spain - He will not manage any other London club IMO - we have millions at his disposal and he can write his name in our history books....we tick all the boxes.

Thats why he would come to us.

You don't need to follow football elsewhere to know that Mourinho will not go to a club that hasn't had success for so long. He likes to take over at big successful clubs who may have dipped a bit recently.

As for you quoting (and believing) the Sun, well I thought you had more sense than that.

[guv111]

How do you inspire ordinary players, most of whom are only here for their vast salaries? Both Hughes and Mancini have filled the squad with players none of the really good, successful teams want. For every Tevez we've had a Santa Cruz, for every De Jong we've had a Milner, for every Silva we've had a Vieira, for every Kompany we've had a Boateng and a Kolarov. The list goes on, but you get the idea. It's trial and error management. We have had a windfall that most fans could only ever dream of, and Hughes and Mancini have WASTED it. We play crap football because a) Manicni thinks Serie A's trundling can be transferred successfully anywhere, and b) because the blatantly mercenary and unexceptional players can't be arsed to make his confused plans work. Apathy is everywhere from team to fans. We need a second revolution, but with someone who knows what he is doing in charge. Combine the fees wasted on Milner and Boateng and we could have had one really exceptional player, not two ordinary ones. It's false (and pointless) economy.

We need a clear out, and we need to replace the idle wage gatherers with talent. That's real talent with ambition. It will cost money, but we have money so why be parsimonious about it? Nearly everything we have done in the last two years has been done with one eye on spending but not spending too big. So, we get the likes of Dzeko while Barcelona get Villa. This season we are on course to win nothing and to finish fifth - that second revolution may begin this summer. I hope so.

[Im_Spartacus]

@ Blue Since 76,
In 6 years time City will be stratospheric mate. Trust me Pal, I'm a cab driver and we know everything and I wouldn't lie to you...(would I?). So go and get yer 6 years season ticket.
We are most certainly a project...a fuclin huge one. Probably the biggest football project in the World and despite your protestations, you can offer no evidence to the contrary.

City is a project like no other and this phase is merely the 1st rung on a temporary ladder. let's put it like this...In the winter, you plant the bulbs in the garden. For a long time, the garden looks barren...and you think nothing is happening. Do you think fuck it and dig them all up again to chuck away, or do you wait until the time is right and the 1st shoots start to sprout?

Our reality is that we have barely just begun. What you see now is not what you saw last season...and it won't be what you will be watching next season. Teams take time...Don't dig the bulbs up before they have had chance to sprout.

If you planted bulbs three years ago and nothing was growing, you wouldn't dig them up to find out why?

Analogies in these situations are stupid, but unfortunately for those preaching the same line you did last year and the year before, it's all you have left. I get the feeling you'd be good standing in the trenches back in 1915 saying things like "hold the line" and "stay the course". Essentially making a shitload of noise while saying absolutely fucking nothing.

Some really good debate in this thread, but I can't help going back to something I came across whilst rowing with a rag a few weeks back - because "changing managers doesn't work" is frankly a myth.

Since the arguments for managerial stability usually revolve around the Baconface situation at Old Trafford, I think it is important to understand that he is a one off.....a single example of a club sticking with a manager and it paying off. What is NEVER documented or argues though are the number of clubs who have suffered because of loyalty and trust to an incompetent fuckwit.

The fact of the matter is though, that other clubs have success, and other clubs change their manager. During baconface's tenure:

AC Milan have won 25 trophies including 5 Champions League/European Cups, and had 15 managers
Real Madrid have won 27 trophies and had 25 manager

So I would say that quite clearly - with the very notable exception of Ferguson who had the unbeatable combination of being arguably the most talented manager in history alongside a "golden generation of players" that were the mainstay of his side for a decade, it is the quality of players that is the major factor in winning tropies - the manager, I personally believe is simply the one who sets the direction for the team.

This leads me to believe that if you have the proven quality in your squad, and you are not successful, it is the manager holding the players back that is the problem. Who, when watching us play over the last 15 months, could say, hand on heart, that they feel Mancini's style of play is the right one for this group of players?

That will lead you to the answer that unfortunately, he has never been, and will never be, the right manager to take this club forward

All his work of the last 15 months have been leading to this point, and it is looking likely, based on league and cup form (Villa aside) that we we will bottle it when it comes to the crunch. If that is the case, then there is little reason to keep him - as that was also his failing at Inter, and inability to cope with pressure in big games

The key is money, obviously. Ferguson had it, the teams you mention have it, we have it, therefore we will be succussful eventually. The difference between Ferguson & most managers of those clubs is that Ferguson built his title winning side from scratch. The others all took over sides where most of the building work had already been done. Even though Wenger transformed Arsenal, their defensive philosophy had been beaten into them with a big stick by George Graham & Wenger provided the attacking side. Now all of GG's influence has worn off, he can't build a back 4 to save his life & if he wins anything it will only be because the oppo isn't good enough to exploit it.

Bob however, is a manager who built a side & won titles, which is why he's been given the task of doing it here. I thought his Inter side was nothing special but it won titles & he built it, so he must know something. I agree with John, that 5 years from now we'll be brilliant, however if Bob is to be the manager that sees it through, he has to perform to a cetain level now. People can kiss his arse when he gets everything wrong & pretend that they think it's all nothing to worry about, but there are people above him who aren't kissing his arse; they're evaluating him. If he's to be the bloke who's in charge 5 years from now, he has to perform to a decent level for the rest of this season. Recently, he's fallen below that level & needs to pick it back up. If he doesn't, he hasn't got a cat in hell's chance. He has to perform; now. I hope he does.

He has to perform, but ALL the evidence points towards that its not going to happen. If he performs in 1 of the 3 competitions we are still involved in, will that have been success, or will we have twice failed to capitalise on the position we are in now? Suppose its a glass half full/empty question.

A year or two ago, I thought I would accept success at any cost. I was told that Mancini is playing defensively to sort out the defensive issues under Hughes, and I accepted that for a while. However I now realise that I was sold a lie by NQDP and others - Mancini is anti-football, and he will not change.

I have realised that I love football and city in that order. And without football, I am finding it hard to be enthusiastic about City despite the position we are in.

Mancini is paid to motivate, to coach and to organise. I have seen very pleasing things emerge from Carrington, like Micah Richards re-emergence, and Zabaletta has come on loads. But we have an army of coaches, who says it is Mancini who has caused that progression - I will give him the credit though.

In terms of motivation and organisation, he is a massive failure for me. That is not something that he can change with time, that is something that is hardwired into his DNA, the shit football is just the symptom of Mancini's lack of managerial ability.

[Im_Spartacus]

kk Do you actually follow football anywhere else other than England?

Not really. I'm a City fan rather than a football fan. Can't be arsed with International football (pointless), Serie A (bent), La Liga (slow) Bundesliga (boring), and I don't play computer games, I suppose that means my opinions are worthless.

Well in that case your "Why the hell would Jose come to us" is an opinion based on..... well fuck all then.




FYI he wants to come back to the UK - He is NOT happy in Spain - He will not manage any other London club IMO - we have millions at his disposal and he can write his name in our history books....we tick all the boxes.

Thats why he would come to us.

You don't need to follow football elsewhere to know that Mourinho will not go to a club that hasn't had success for so long. He likes to take over at big successful clubs who may have dipped a bit recently.

As for you quoting (and believing) the Sun, well I thought you had more sense than that.

Like all the success Chelsea had you mean, not having won the league for 50 years.

He likes to go and take over at clubs with loads of money which allows them to dominate in their league. That is where city aspire and have the means to be.

[Kladze]

If Mancini had started out 3 years ago, your point would stand and I would agree but he didn't he started just over 12 months ago. It takes much longer to build a team than 12 months.
Mancini may have taken on the legacy left by Hughes and to some extent by Sven but like just about every manager, changed everything around and started his own journey.

[highlight]Some on here want rid of him but I can guarantee few have offered a reasonable alternative[/highlight]...A new manager, a new start and they will expect immediate results...IT AIN'T EVER GONNA HAPPEN...We've tried it that way for years and we failed...based on what has been seen to have failed, they want to do it again...[highlight]HOW DAFT IS THAT[/highlight]?

How daft is that?
Depends on what one wants really eh?

Do I want a successful team - yes, pretty much.
Will Mancini deliver a successful team? - he might, he probably won't though.

Do I want a team who are a joy to watch? who take my breath away regularly? - too bloody right I do, and if it bring home a few trophies along the way, fine.

Will Mancini provide me with such a team? ................ well, we've seen precious little sign of it so far.


So you want me to "offer you a reasonable alternative"?

ok

It has to be somebody who would take the job and attempt to get a very good bunch of players (with a couple of additions of course) playing football with verve and a swagger.

So ...........

Who could make himself available and has done such a thing in the past?

Who could make himself available and would definitely take the job?

Come in Frankie, you know I want you.

Reikjard is my man.

[Kladze]

And just to add to that ..........

There are those on here - quite a few of you - who seek to diminish the disaster of Thursay by saying "The cup tie against Reading is a massive game for us now".

WHAT ?????????


We should be fucking trouncing the likes of Reading like a steam roller going over bananas given the money we've spent.

[Im_Spartacus]

And just to add to that ..........

There are those on here - quite a few of you - who seek to diminish the disaster of Thursay by saying "The cup tie against Reading is a massive game for us now".

WHAT ?????????


We should be fucking trouncing the likes of Reading like a steam roller going over bananas given the money we've spent.

This is one thing that we need to be careful about. It is not about the money we have spent. Money does not buy or guarantee success, and "given the money we have spent" just gives ammunition to those who seek to belittle city.

What should guarantee success is the great players we have in our squad (as a result of having spent that money)

[dikdik]

Spartacus I agree with you.
Stability is all very well if you are going in the right direction
As a doctor I know that if a patient doesn't respond to a particular antibiotic after a given time then it's time to change the drug not persist just in case it might work!

[Kladze]

And just to add to that ..........

There are those on here - quite a few of you - who seek to diminish the disaster of Thursay by saying "The cup tie against Reading is a massive game for us now".

WHAT ?????????


We should be fucking trouncing the likes of Reading like a steam roller going over bananas given the money we've spent.

This is one thing that we need to be careful about. It is not about the money we have spent. Money does not buy or guarantee success, and "given the money we have spent" just gives ammunition to those who seek to belittle city.

What should guarantee success is the great players we have in our squad (as a result of having spent that money)

Obviously.

Fact is that, on the whole, we HAVE bought very good players. But we look nowhere near the sum being as good as its parts.

And I keep banging on about 'intent'.

Mancini - and I actually do like him as a man - has shown no attacking intent at all when it actually matters, and not all that much when it doesn't.

[King Kev]

kk Do you actually follow football anywhere else other than England?

Not really. I'm a City fan rather than a football fan. Can't be arsed with International football (pointless), Serie A (bent), La Liga (slow) Bundesliga (boring), and I don't play computer games, I suppose that means my opinions are worthless.

Well in that case your "Why the hell would Jose come to us" is an opinion based on..... well fuck all then.




FYI he wants to come back to the UK - He is NOT happy in Spain - He will not manage any other London club IMO - we have millions at his disposal and he can write his name in our history books....we tick all the boxes.

Thats why he would come to us.

You don't need to follow football elsewhere to know that Mourinho will not go to a club that hasn't had success for so long. He likes to take over at big successful clubs who may have dipped a bit recently.

As for you quoting (and believing) the Sun, well I thought you had more sense than that.

Like all the success Chelsea had you mean, not having won the league for 50 years.

He likes to go and take over at clubs with loads of money which allows them to dominate in their league. That is where city aspire and have the means to be.

The situation at Chelsea is exactly as I described what Mourinho looks for in a club.

Prior to Jose, Vialli won the FA Cup, League Cup, Charity Shield, Cup Winners Cup and UEFA Super Cup at Chelsea. They then had a dip where they didn't win anything so Jose came in to revive them.

The situation at Chelsea prior to Mourinho and our situation now bear no resemblance to each other.

[Ted Hughes]

I'm a fan of attacking stylish football but I think it's unfair to say we haven't seen any of that under Bob. I think some of the stuff we've produced at times is right up there with Arsenal or even Barca but the downside is we only do it for short spells & can't kill teams off (but neither can Arsenal).

We'd all like to see it more often obviously but I'm not convinced we won't see that under Bob. I'm not convinced we definitely will either but I think there's decent chance of it. Right now, for this season I'll settle for nice solid performances & getting the job done. The last few games were anything but nice solid performances so we need to sort it very quickly. We're capable of better.

[Im_Spartacus]

A bit of a dip??

Jesus mate, when Abramovich came in and the spending started, the first season they reached the semis of the Champions League, and 2nd in the league to Arsenal's invincibles. But the fact was, they had won nothing of note with that squad - and the big prize was the league, then the CL

Chelsea were massively on the rise when Mourinho came in - all the spadework had been done by Ranieri. The players they had by this time, Cole, Lampard, Terry, Makelele, Hasselbaink, Gudjohnson, Bridge, Crespo, Petit, Duff, Gallas, Mutu, Geremi was largely the team that went on to win the league - with the addition of Robben, Drogba & Cech.

That squad under Ranieri should have won something, but they didnt - just like us under Mancini(so far)/Hughes. It needed someone to come and take that squad to the next level. What it doesnt need is a new manager coming in and destroying everything and starting again. We, have a core of extremely talented and young players, which is exactly what Mourinho inherited - he didnt destroy everything he inherited like Hughes and Mancini seemingly wanted to do, it was evolution with Mourinho - subtle changes and a different management style which gets the best out of those players that he inherited.


In terms of comparing our position and trajectory to Chelsea's, last season should have been our "Ranieri" year, instead, because of Mancini's boring defensive bollocks though, we lost a year in the CL so this year has become our "Ranieri" year - one where we will challenge but probably not win anything.

Next year has to be the "Mourinho" year. The one where we get a competent manager who can take this squad forward and get the best out of the players we already have - not buy another dozen and fuck about whining about gelling for another 2 years

[Blue Since 76]

I'm a fan of attacking stylish football but I think it's unfair to say we haven't seen any of that under Bob. I think some of the stuff we've produced at times is right up there with Arsenal or even Barca but the downside is we only do it for short spells & can't kill teams off (but neither can Arsenal).

We'd all like to see it more often obviously but I'm not convinced we won't see that under Bob. I'm not convinced we definitely will either but I think there's decent chance of it. Right now, for this season I'll settle for nice solid performances & getting the job done. The last few games were anything but nice solid performances so we need to sort it very quickly. We're capable of better.

Last season, I'd have agreed. He was over cautious, which ultimately cost us 4th, but he didn't know the league or how the demands would affect the players. This season, he hasn't got that excuse.

He just seems to be stuck in Serie A mode. It's a system which might work domestically in Italy, but is out of date everywhere else, as the European fixtures have proved - Juve couldn't get out of the group, Roma got trounced and Milan couldn't even score in 180 minutes against spurs dodgy defence, let alone beat them. Football has moved on - look at barca or Spain. Anti-football has too - look at Inter's performance in the final. We seem to be caught in a 10 year old Italian system, which isn't particularly effective defensively or offensively.

If Mancini can't see that and change, he's not up to the job, probably any top job. Even Holloway learnt that his ways were outdated and changed from long ball and the rags have played in numerous ways under taggart.

[Im_Spartacus]

I'm a fan of attacking stylish football but I think it's unfair to say we haven't seen any of that under Bob. I think some of the stuff we've produced at times is right up there with Arsenal or even Barca but the downside is we only do it for short spells & can't kill teams off (but neither can Arsenal).

We'd all like to see it more often obviously but I'm not convinced we won't see that under Bob. I'm not convinced we definitely will either but I think there's decent chance of it. Right now, for this season I'll settle for nice solid performances & getting the job done. The last few games were anything but nice solid performances so we need to sort it very quickly. We're capable of better.

Yes it is unfair - there have been occasions, 20 minutes/half an hour here or there - and that is the source of the frustration.

I always think back to Chelsea away last year. We were desperately bad in that first half, and should have been dead and buried by half time. Then right at the start of the 2nd half they made a mistake and our players seemed to suddenly have a belief about them that had been lacking, and we went and banged 4 goals in against the Champions elect.

The players definately have ability, and Carlos' outbursts show the frustration the players feel playing in the dreadful and unnecessary manner that we do. We arguably have, after Real Madrid and Barcelona, the best collection of attacking talent in the world. Unlike them though, we seem to be unable or unwilling to pass and move, we can't get a cross in for love nor money, and we do perverse things like bring Dzeko on and take a winger off!!! All of it brings Mancini's position into question.

There is absolutely no excuse for the brand of football we play the majority of the time. I cannot accept that Mancini allows or instructs his players NOT to pass and move. So given that we have all the talent in the world, why does pass and move not happen at city. Why do players receive the ball stood still, because if we have the talent, and Mancini is not inhibiting them with his tactics, then the movement issue is surely down to the players' attitude - and it is Mancini's job alone to sort that out.

Sometimes we do pass and move for half an hour, we will blow a team away, then revert to being like fucking statues waiting for the ball to hit them for the rest of the game. It can only be one of two things, they are instructed to do that, or their collective mentality is wrong - and on both counts, Mancini is paid to manage those things.

One way or another, he is failing to address the issue, whether it be mental or tactical

[ashton287]

I've not read this thread but i can guess at the direction it's gone in.

I'm going to chip in with

[scroll]MANCINIIIIIIIIII WOOOOOOO OOOOOOO,MANCINIIIIIIIIII WOOOOOOO OOOOOOO, HE COMES FROM ITALY, TO MANAGE MAN CITY[/scroll]

[carl_feedthegoat]

kk Do you actually follow football anywhere else other than England?

Not really. I'm a City fan rather than a football fan. Can't be arsed with International football (pointless), Serie A (bent), La Liga (slow) Bundesliga (boring), and I don't play computer games, I suppose that means my opinions are worthless.

Well in that case your "Why the hell would Jose come to us" is an opinion based on..... well fuck all then.




FYI he wants to come back to the UK - He is NOT happy in Spain - He will not manage any other London club IMO - we have millions at his disposal and he can write his name in our history books....we tick all the boxes.

Thats why he would come to us.

You don't need to follow football elsewhere to know that Mourinho will not go to a club that hasn't had success for so long. He likes to take over at big successful clubs who may have dipped a bit recently.

As for you quoting (and believing) the Sun, well I thought you had more sense than that.

For fucks sake..any fucking article form that paper that DOESN'T FIT WITH ONES AGENDA is bullshit is it !!! It is common fuckign knowledge that Mourhino is not happy where he is and it is also common knowledge that he misses managing in England.

I fucking hate it when someone knocks a tabloid over a story that they dont like so diss it as nonsense....there are many storied in SPain itself that claim Mourinho wants out.