FSF Safe Standing Petition

[bobby brows]

http://www.fsf.org.uk/petitions/safestanding.php

More Information
•Every week thousands upon thousands of fans stand in front of their seats for the duration of the game while following the team they love - attempts by the authorities to end this practise have failed. Surveys regularly show the vast majority of supporters back the choice to stand or sit. The FSF’s National Supporters’ Survey showed that 90% of fans back the choice to stand or sit.
•The FSF’s Safe Standing Campaign is not just about those who prefer to stand. By giving supporters the choice, everyone benefits. Those who wish to stand can do so, while those who prefer to sit no longer have to worry about having their view blocked.
•The FSF does not propose that the stringent safety standards laid down in the Government’s Green Guide be abolished or weakened. But we do think fans in the Premier League or Championship should also be allowed to stand in safety as those in any other division can. The idea that safety depends upon the quality of football played on the pitch is absurd.
•We are not suggesting that clubs should be forced to provide safe standing areas – only that they should be allowed the choice. Issues around cost and feasibility should be a matter for individual clubs, not for government.
•Many opponents to safe standing mistakenly cite Hillsborough as a reason not to allow its introduction. However the disaster was not caused by standing; the Taylor Report primarily blamed overcrowding, stadium layout, and poor policing. It did not ban standing nor claim it was inherently unsafe.
P•UEFA regulations state that European competitions must be played in all-seated stadiums. Safe standing areas can be convertible to and from seating, so this is not an obstacle to clubs providing standing accommodation for domestic games.
•In both England and abroad, ticket prices for standing areas are typically lower than in seated areas, making the stadiums more socially inclusive.
Why now? The clamour for safe standing is ever-growing, so why not now? Don Foster MP for Bath, and Co-Chair of the Liberal Democrat Parliamentary Policy Committee on Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport, has launched a Safe Standing Bill which is due for a second reading in Parliament on 17th June 2011. The more signatures we can gather to support his Safe Standing Bill, the better…

[Ted Hughes]

Government (s) won't have the balls to introduce it because of whinging scousers & the possibility of getting the blame if anyone gets injured, for any reason, in a standing area. They will want to protect their own arses.

[Kladze]

Signed.

I agree with Ted though.

[Scatman]

Have any clubs actually signed up to this, as it would be they who are paying for the changes, and paying for the loss of revenue that would result from lower ticket prices for standing?

[Rag_hater]

For me being a bit of a short arse seating is better.But if people want to stand I think if they can find a way to do it safely then cannot see the harm in it.
I do remember though when I was a kid and went to maine road and it was standing there I could see fuckall of the match and just the backs of a load of guys.
Seating has improved that.A lot.
So I won't be putting my name to the petition.

[Goaters 103]

Will never get approved in a million years. Not in the sue me generation we now live in.

[BlueinBosnia]

...and paying for the loss of revenue that would result from lower ticket prices for standing?

You can fit considerably more people in when standing- even safely-, though, which counteracts the reduced prices. Also cuts down on maintenance and cleaning costs.

[Scatman]

...and paying for the loss of revenue that would result from lower ticket prices for standing?

You can fit considerably more people in when standing- even safely-, though, which counteracts the reduced prices. Also cuts down on maintenance and cleaning costs.

Considerably more? Old terraces were much deeper than what is underneath the seats. Take the seats out and you are elft with what is effectively a very wide staircase. Each step is about 3 feet deep and if you were to have one person standing in front of the other on this step, i would not want to be the one at the front. That means that the only way you could have more people with the current terrace design is sideways. It is fairly cramped as it is and I don't think small sections of standing would have that many more people in them.

[john68]

Some cunt would only complain that the concrete was too hard.

[Dameerto]

...and paying for the loss of revenue that would result from lower ticket prices for standing?

You can fit considerably more people in when standing- even safely-, though, which counteracts the reduced prices. Also cuts down on maintenance and cleaning costs.

Considerably more? Old terraces were much deeper than what is underneath the seats. Take the seats out and you are elft with what is effectively a very wide staircase. Each step is about 3 feet deep and if you were to have one person standing in front of the other on this step, i would not want to be the one at the front. That means that the only way you could have more people with the current terrace design is sideways. It is fairly cramped as it is and I don't think small sections of standing would have that many more people in them.

You could install some temporary extension to one row for every three or so, to create a platform three rows deep (or however many rows the planners decided on). You could fit more people onto that platform safely than three rows of seated people in my opinion.

[bigblue]

What if you take out the seats and put a waist high railing at the edge of each row. then the crowd couldn't surge forward and would give fans something to lean on when they're tired

[BlueinBosnia]

...and paying for the loss of revenue that would result from lower ticket prices for standing?

You can fit considerably more people in when standing- even safely-, though, which counteracts the reduced prices. Also cuts down on maintenance and cleaning costs.

Considerably more? Old terraces were much deeper than what is underneath the seats. Take the seats out and you are elft with what is effectively a very wide staircase. Each step is about 3 feet deep and if you were to have one person standing in front of the other on this step, i would not want to be the one at the front. That means that the only way you could have more people with the current terrace design is sideways. It is fairly cramped as it is and I don't think small sections of standing would have that many more people in them.

You could install some temporary extension to one row for every three or so, to create a platform three rows deep (or however many rows the planners decided on). You could fit more people onto that platform safely than three rows of seated people in my opinion.

Agree. Don't know if there's any health and safety people on here to give accurate figures, but there are regulations on crowd densities which would apply. At the moment, you get about 1.2 people per square metre in seated stadia in the UK. Below are diagrams for 1.5 and 2 people per square metre respectively, which don't seem overly crowded. Remember, the bottom density is 67% more than the current.



I assume the steps would be remodelled, as they're much too shallow to be safe for standing, plus there'd have to be work done anyway to smooth out all the fixtures and fittings from the removal of seats.

[BlueinBosnia]

What if you take out the seats and put a waist high railing at the edge of each row. then the crowd couldn't surge forward and would give fans something to lean on when they're tired

Waist high would be a big no-no. If anything did go wrong, this would be a major hazard for abdominal/pelvic injuries. The safest thing is the old-school chest-high bars, in my opinion; just with smaller crowd numbers in dispersed pockets throughout the stadium.

[sandman]

I think firstly they should allow standing in your allocated seat area but not increasing person per m2.

I am positive however that will be as far as it goes if it is considered at all.

[SORTED]

Fuck that, I served my 10+ years standing in the kippax and enjoy the luxury of my own seat thanks.

[Scatman]

Fuck that, I served my 10+ years standing in the kippax and enjoy the luxury of my own seat thanks.

At least these days you can put your flask on the floor without someone kicking it over

[feedthegreek]

its been kicked out, been on the radio.

[Slim]

its been kicked out, been on the radio.

Colour me shocked.

[Feed The Goat]

I've not sat down in eastlands for about 3 seasons now so why can't we just say south stand is standing

[john68]

What's this nonsense about the depth for seating being no good for standing? The depth of the Kippax was onl;y a couple of inches.
The depth of terracing in CoMS is very much higher.
The only reason that the clubs dived in and welcomed seating was that it coincided with the explosion of TV and for the 1st time, clubs could get revenue from fans who didn't pass through the turnstyles, via the TV companies. It also allowed them to up the prices of admission by a sizeable margin.
The 1st moves in moving from a working class based sport to a more middle calss clientele.

Fuck health and safety...Don't believe for one moment that the clubs gave it much (if any) consideration when projecting their income streams.