Loan Players

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/blog/2 ... an-players

I found that column quite interesting. James has always been million miles more observing than your average footballer and I usually read his stuff with some interest.

I think he raises good point about what sort of players end up in loan circuit going from place to place. Generally young players NEED first team experience but I prefer long loans. Young players who end going from place to place on short term loans are poor trainers, I believe. Managers and coaches who work with the players from day to day usually like to keep hard workers around them if for no other reason than to just set example to other players in training ground.

[ant london]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/blog/2011/mar/27/david-james-loan-players

I found that column quite interesting. James has always been million miles more observing than your average footballer and I usually read his stuff with some interest.

I think he raises good point about what sort of players end up in loan circuit going from place to place. Generally young players NEED first team experience but I prefer long loans. Young players who end going from place to place on short term loans are poor trainers, I believe. Managers and coaches who work with the players from day to day usually like to keep hard workers around them if for no other reason than to just set example to other players in training ground.

I agree with you on the short loan point. When we've done it with some of our better young players (Guidetti, McDermott etc) for a couple of months I just don't see what point it serves for City and for the player involved.

Equally I don't think we are doing some players (Vidal, Logan (previously also Etuhu) and the like) much good by keeping them on contract here at City when there is little (ie. in reality no) chance of them making the grade in the first team. It would be much better for them and for us (and the game in general) if we just released players like them and let them find their own level and way in the game.

Whether its a question of the quality or our youth product or a misdirected loan policy I dont know (I feel probably a combination of both) but I am yet to really see an example of us benefitting from loaning our players out in footballing terms in the same was as, say, Arsenal did with Wilshire spending the season at Bolton last year.

Specifically I think we missed an opportunity this season to send Guidetti and Nimely out for a proper season's loan in the PL. I'm sure there are clubs that would have snapped our hands off for both and that both, whilst certainly not starting every week, would have got decent experience.

The talk of us putting arrangements in place for us to partner with the likes of Atletico Madrid and whatever UK clubs have been mooted in the past might be one way that we could look to use and develop our youth products in a more sensible and beneficial sense. But absent that I agree with Antti and we should be looking at season long loans for our really promising players not this 2-3 month nonsense

[CityFanFromRome]

I agree, the 3 months loans are a waste of time imho; and we shouldn 't loan our players to teams in the championship or lower, but only to Prem sides. That's how a player really develops, confronting himself with the reality of the hardest league in the country, not with those below it.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

I agree, the 3 months loans are a waste of time imho; and we shouldn 't loan our players to teams in the championship or lower, but only to Prem sides. That's how a player really develops, confronting himself with the reality of the hardest league in the country, not with those below it.

Got to disagree with that though.
Playing against competitive games against grown men aids players development million times more than playing Youth games or reserve games. Personally I think that once our brightest young talents are ready for it (eightee? Nineteen?) they should be sent for long loans to either Championship or 1st division and see whether they sink or swim against grown men. I agree with Ant that we should not hold on to players who have zero chance of making it for too long. If they are 20 and don't look like good enough for even 1st division level, they have little chance of making it with us. Better to just let them find their true level elsewhere.

[CityFanFromRome]

I agree, the 3 months loans are a waste of time imho; and we shouldn 't loan our players to teams in the championship or lower, but only to Prem sides. That's how a player really develops, confronting himself with the reality of the hardest league in the country, not with those below it.

Got to disagree with that though.
Playing against competitive games against grown men aids players development million times more than playing Youth games or reserve games. Personally I think that once our brightest young talents are ready for it (eightee? Nineteen?) they should be sent for long loans to either Championship or 1st division and see whether they sink or swim against grown men. I agree with Ant that we should not hold on to players who have zero chance of making it for too long. If they are 20 and don't look like good enough for even 1st division level, they have little chance of making it with us. Better to just let them find their true level elsewhere.

Yeah I see your point; however, how old was Wilshere last year when he went to Bolton? He was 18 if I'm not mistaken; Nimely and Guidetti are 18 or 19 themselves, and I agree with Ant that we could have found a Prem club willing to take them and this would have benefitted them more than a loan spell in the Championship. Of course going out on loan in the Championship would have benefitted them more than staying at the club playing for the reserves.

My point is, though, if you loan a player to the Championship and he does well, do you have any guarantee that he will be good enough for the Prem? I don't think so. If you loan him to a Prem club and he does well though, then you're sure he can make it in the Prem, probably he could become even better but he's already good enough to compete at that level.

[Dameerto]

I mentioned quite a while ago about the importance of psychology in sport, he seems to agree at the end of the article. I really find it surprising that clubs don't address it as much as I think they should.

[Chinners]

Loaning to championship sides is much better for us and the player. The player will get more starts and get used to actually playing professional football at a decent level first. The majority of players chucked into Prem footie straight away tend to suffer if they've not had the grounding and invariably end up playing in the Championship at best later on. It's good for the club as the players won't affect our results/position by playing lower down (ok in some instances this could be a bonus) and concentration on the players developement is better served. The will always be a few players that can be chucked straight in like Wiltshire by they are the exception in general.

[CityFanFromRome]

The will always be a few players that can be chucked straight in like Wiltshire by they are the exception in general.

At the level we are now though, that's the only kind of player coming from the academy that we can fit into our list of 25; only top quality youngsters can wrestle their way into our squad now.

Another one I'd like to see out on loan in the Prem for a whole season is Boyata; apart for the Arsenal game he has done pretty well for us when he played, but to do it consistently for a whole season is another matter, and it's the test we need to see if he truly can be part of our defensive setup, not necessarily as a starter (but I feel he has the quality to eventually be a starter for us) but at least as cover.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

Loaning to championship sides is much better for us and the player. The player will get more starts and get used to actually playing professional football at a decent level first. The majority of players chucked into Prem footie straight away tend to suffer if they've not had the grounding and invariably end up playing in the Championship at best later on. It's good for the club as the players won't affect our results/position by playing lower down (ok in some instances this could be a bonus) and concentration on the players developement is better served. The will always be a few players that can be chucked straight in like Wiltshire by they are the exception in general.

I agree with this.
Wilshire is poor example as he is simply out of this world talent who is destined for top. You could already see that when he was 16. He'll take over from Gerrard in year or two and will lead England for next decade (and a half probably).

For "ordinary good" talent like Nimley and Guidetti, Championship would be the best place. They are good enough to be regular starters at that level and would have to shoulder genuine responsibility of the team. Yet, they'd play against good quality opposition and would be surrounded by good quality players. People sometimes forget how much English second tier football has moved forward in past 20 years. Most of the teams play very good quality football and there are very few journeyman "break your legs son" centerbacks there anymore. Even in 1st division about one fourth of teams play decent football. When loaning players to 1st division you have got to be careful about the club you loan the players to and what sort of management and coaching they have got.

To expand this little, I would suggest that we'd find three GENUINE partnership clubs for three different purposes. And I'm not talking about some crappy Singapore teams for marketing purposes.

First, I think we should find a 1st division club to subscribes to our ideas of football. Someone with strong history of youth development and ideas about playing good football. Out of current teams Southampton, Charlton and Sheffield Wednesday would suit that idea. They would all welcome top talent as they are in financial trouble (Charlton not so much but you get the picture).

Second, we should find a Swedish team. Reason is simple, their season is played during the summer. We should send young players there to gain experience during the summer. When they come back in autumn they could have much needed break then and be back in training around early november with strong experience behind them. Swedish league, while not elite, is alright quality and most importantly football is very similar to England, fast paced and physical.

Third, we should have a team in Belgium. This is only for EU citizenship purposes.

[Dameerto]

If Town don't get promoted this season we could do a lot worse than linking up with Huddersfield as your first division side, they're a club with an ambitious chairman/management team and decent facilities. I haven't seen much of them this season but they're supposedly playing some good football. Players wouldn't have to relocate to play for them either so it would be one less change playing on their minds.

[bluej]

Loaning to championship sides is much better for us and the player. The player will get more starts and get used to actually playing professional football at a decent level first. The majority of players chucked into Prem footie straight away tend to suffer if they've not had the grounding and invariably end up playing in the Championship at best later on. It's good for the club as the players won't affect our results/position by playing lower down (ok in some instances this could be a bonus) and concentration on the players developement is better served. The will always be a few players that can be chucked straight in like Wiltshire by they are the exception in general.

I agree with this.
Wilshire is poor example as he is simply out of this world talent who is destined for top. You could already see that when he was 16. He'll take over from Gerrard in year or two and will lead England for next decade (and a half probably).

For "ordinary good" talent like Nimley and Guidetti, Championship would be the best place. They are good enough to be regular starters at that level and would have to shoulder genuine responsibility of the team. Yet, they'd play against good quality opposition and would be surrounded by good quality players. People sometimes forget how much English second tier football has moved forward in past 20 years. Most of the teams play very good quality football and there are very few journeyman "break your legs son" centerbacks there anymore. Even in 1st division about one fourth of teams play decent football. When loaning players to 1st division you have got to be careful about the club you loan the players to and what sort of management and coaching they have got.

To expand this little, I would suggest that we'd find three GENUINE partnership clubs for three different purposes. And I'm not talking about some crappy Singapore teams for marketing purposes.

First, I think we should find a 1st division club to subscribes to our ideas of football. Someone with strong history of youth development and ideas about playing good football. Out of current teams Southampton, Charlton and [highlight]Sheffield Wednesday[/highlight] would suit that idea. They would all welcome top talent as they are in financial trouble (Charlton not so much but you get the picture).

Second, we should find a Swedish team. Reason is simple, their season is played during the summer. We should send young players there to gain experience during the summer. When they come back in autumn they could have much needed break then and be back in training around early november with strong experience behind them. Swedish league, while not elite, is alright quality and most importantly football is very similar to England, fast paced and physical.

Third, we should have a team in Belgium. This is only for EU citizenship purposes.

You can't have seen them much over the last couple of years then mate! They're pretty sorted financially now that Mandaric has taken over, but I agree that they would be a good place to send players on long term loans, as they still get large crowds (even in the 3rd tier).

[Rag_hater]

Loaning to championship sides is much better for us and the player. The player will get more starts and get used to actually playing professional football at a decent level first. The majority of players chucked into Prem footie straight away tend to suffer if they've not had the grounding and invariably end up playing in the Championship at best later on. It's good for the club as the players won't affect our results/position by playing lower down (ok in some instances this could be a bonus) and concentration on the players developement is better served. The will always be a few players that can be chucked straight in like Wiltshire by they are the exception in general.

I agree with this.
Wilshire is poor example as he is simply out of this world talent who is destined for top. You could already see that when he was 16. He'll take over from Gerrard in year or two and will lead England for next decade (and a half probably).

For "ordinary good" talent like Nimley and Guidetti, Championship would be the best place. They are good enough to be regular starters at that level and would have to shoulder genuine responsibility of the team. Yet, they'd play against good quality opposition and would be surrounded by good quality players. People sometimes forget how much English second tier football has moved forward in past 20 years. Most of the teams play very good quality football and there are very few journeyman "break your legs son" centerbacks there anymore. Even in 1st division about one fourth of teams play decent football. When loaning players to 1st division you have got to be careful about the club you loan the players to and what sort of management and coaching they have got.

To expand this little, I would suggest that we'd find three GENUINE partnership clubs for three different purposes. And I'm not talking about some crappy Singapore teams for marketing purposes.

First, I think we should find a 1st division club to subscribes to our ideas of football. Someone with strong history of youth development and ideas about playing good football. Out of current teams Southampton, Charlton and Sheffield Wednesday would suit that idea. They would all welcome top talent as they are in financial trouble (Charlton not so much but you get the picture).

Second, we should find a Swedish team. Reason is simple, their season is played during the summer. We should send young players there to gain experience during the summer. When they come back in autumn they could have much needed break then and be back in training around early november with strong experience behind them. Swedish league, while not elite, is alright quality and most importantly football is very similar to England, fast paced and physical.

Third, we should have a team in Belgium. This is only for EU citizenship purposes.

I think we should be looking to place our good kids all over Europe in teams that play at a higher level than our Championship teams.Like Phil is playing in a high division in Spain it is gonna do him more good than if he had gone to Cardiff.
Like you say Sweeden and Belgium have there attractions but I think we should be more expansive than that.

[Dameerto]

I think we should be looking to place our good kids all over Europe in teams that play at a higher level than our Championship teams.Like Phil is playing in a high division in Spain it is gonna do him more good than if he had gone to Cardiff.
Like you say Sweeden and Belgium have there attractions but I think we should be more expansive than that.

We have our partnership with Espanyol so the club are ahead of us on this already, I seem to remember an announcement about some kind of link or sponsorship/baleout of a Belgian team as well from around a season ago. At the time I thought it was a move to take advantage of their less stringent citizenship requirements but things have been quiet since then.

[dazby]

I think it's horses for courses. It all depends on where they are at in their development and the role the club forsee for them in the future. For example, a skilful 20year old defender may be suited to the Championship to develop their heading and core strength skills in the contest. An 18 year old slight winger with blistering pace may be suited to a League 2 team just to get some general experience. Then of course a 22 year old bustling striker with bandy legs might be sent to Spain to develop his general skills.