His dad washes elephants...

[BlueinBosnia]

"His Dad Washes Elephants"

Am I one of the only people who does NOT see this as racist..... can someone please point out to me which part of those 4 words is derogatory towards ANY race/creed/nationality etc?

Take it you didnt read my post above. The colonial era spawned most of the words and phrases which form the bedrock of the racist dictionary, it evolved from the belief that natives were inferior to the British colonials which is as clear a case of racism as you will ever see.

Elephant Washer is just as derogatory as any of the more often used racist terms

If you choose to interpret it in that way, then yes it can be perceived as racist. However, as 'Elephant Washer' in the sense you're describing it was used exclusively for Indians, then I, for one, honestly didn't see the connection between 'his dad washes elephants' and the term, and I guess a large proportion of people view it in the same way as me, possibly (or not) including the person who made up the song.

[BlueinBosnia]

"His Dad Washes Elephants"

Am I one of the only people who does NOT see this as racist..... can someone please point out to me which part of those 4 words is derogatory towards ANY race/creed/nationality etc?

Take it you didnt read my post above. The colonial era spawned most of the words and phrases which form the bedrock of the racist dictionary, it evolved from the belief that natives were inferior to the British colonials which is as clear a case of racism as you will ever see.

Elephant Washer is just as derogatory as any of the more often used racist terms

If you choose to interpret it in that way, then yes it can be perceived as racist. However, as 'Elephant Washer' in the sense you're describing it was used exclusively for Indians, then I, for one, honestly didn't see the connection between 'his dad washes elephants' and the term, and I guess a large proportion of people view it in the same way as me, possibly (or not) including the person who made up the song.

[pepsi_dave]

"His Dad Washes Elephants"

Am I one of the only people who does NOT see this as racist..... can someone please point out to me which part of those 4 words is derogatory towards ANY race/creed/nationality etc?

Take it you didnt read my post above. The colonial era spawned most of the words and phrases which form the bedrock of the racist dictionary, it evolved from the belief that natives were inferior to the British colonials which is as clear a case of racism as you will ever see.

Elephant Washer is just as derogatory as any of the more often used racist terms

Does his dad actually wash elephants, and was he around during the colonial era surrounded by british colonials who thought they were superioir than him?

If the answer to those is no then it is not racist..... If anything (and at a push) it may be slightly sterotypical in the sense that one is assuming he is from Africa, and immediately assosciating africa with elephants! Other than that acute stereotype, for the purpose of making it fit into a football chant, its not racist!

I personally HATE racism, its disgusting and has absolutely no place in modern society! I've heard that chant hundereds of times, and never at any point during or after hearing them have I thought "hmmmm that's Racist" or heard anyone else suggest something similar.

[Dameerto]

it's been around for quite a while, there's a Spurs blog from over three years ago where the author thinks it's unacceptable. It's possible for people to use terms innocently or accidentally without intent while still being institutionally racist. I presume Adebayor has been aware of the chant for a few years too.

[Im_Spartacus]

"His Dad Washes Elephants"

Am I one of the only people who does NOT see this as racist..... can someone please point out to me which part of those 4 words is derogatory towards ANY race/creed/nationality etc?

Take it you didnt read my post above. The colonial era spawned most of the words and phrases which form the bedrock of the racist dictionary, it evolved from the belief that natives were inferior to the British colonials which is as clear a case of racism as you will ever see.

Elephant Washer is just as derogatory as any of the more often used racist terms

Does his dad actually wash elephants, and was he around during the colonial era surrounded by british colonials who thought they were superioir than him?

If the answer to those is no then it is not racist..... If anything (and at a push) it may be slightly sterotypical in the sense that one is assuming he is from Africa, and immediately assosciating africa with elephants! Other than that acute stereotype, for the purpose of making it fit into a football chant, its not racist!

I personally HATE racism, its disgusting and has absolutely no place in modern society! I've heard that chant hundereds of times, and never at any point during or after hearing them have I thought "hmmmm that's Racist" or heard anyone else suggest something similar.

Its just as stereotypical as what Ron Atkinson called Desaiily. The first part was a generalisation of the race, the second part of what he said was simply a word that was coined to refer to someone of Desailly's heritage in the colonial era.

By your pretty black and white (forgive the pub) standards, was Desailly lazy, most certainly not.........was Desailly around in the colonial era........no - in which case why did Ron Atkinson lose his job?

Elephant washer is just as denigrating as what Ron Atkinson called Desailly - and you know damned well that if Atkinson had called Desailly an elephant washer, he would have been sacked just as quickly

[BlueinBosnia]

Elephant washer is just as denigrating as what Ron Atkinson called Desailly - and you know damned well that if Atkinson had called Desailly an elephant washer, he would have been sacked just as quickly

There's a big difference between saying someone washes elephants, and calling someone an elephant washer, in my opinion. The same difference as between calling a black person a 'bastard' or a 'black bastard', when he's not actually a bastard. The first is a general offence/joke/whatever way it was intended, the second is a racist offence.

[Im_Spartacus]

Elephant washer is just as denigrating as what Ron Atkinson called Desailly - and you know damned well that if Atkinson had called Desailly an elephant washer, he would have been sacked just as quickly

There's a big difference between saying someone washes elephants, and calling someone an elephant washer, in my opinion. The same difference as between calling a black person a 'bastard' or a 'black bastard', when he's not actually a bastard. The first is a general offence/joke/whatever way it was intended, the second is a racist offence.

Fuck me, this is hard work. How is "His dad washes elephants" any fucking different to calling his dad an elephant washer. They might as well have said his dad is a n***** - thats not racist towards Adebayor either.....doesnt stop it being fucking racist though

Whether its directly racist, has racist connotations, the fact is it is clearly racist.

Spuds as a club didnt like it when teams started singing about "Spurs are on their way to Belsen". Would you defend that as not being anti-semitic - as the ones who sung it might just have been singing about taking a holiday there because they didnt directly refer to jews being gassed.

You are either being deliberately argumentative, naive in the extreme or stupid to claim that "his dad washes elephants" doesnt have a racist undertone.

[DoomMerchant]

where was all this bollox when Arsenal fans threw bananas at Ade after his famous run last season at COMS? That for me was far more racist and direct and in fact was on film i'm pretty sure. You can see the bananas in fucking pictures.

i'd agree it's pretty much borne of his race, how could you say it isn't, but it's no more or less insulting than any non-racially motivated crap song that some opposing fans will sing. It's just shit more than it is racist to be fair. It's not clever or funny or entertaining, so...

cheers

[bigblue]

Elephant washer is just as denigrating as what Ron Atkinson called Desailly - and you know damned well that if Atkinson had called Desailly an elephant washer, he would have been sacked just as quickly

There's a big difference between saying someone washes elephants, and calling someone an elephant washer, in my opinion. The same difference as between calling a black person a 'bastard' or a 'black bastard', when he's not actually a bastard. The first is a general offence/joke/whatever way it was intended, the second is a racist offence.

No there isn't. You don't have to dissect the grammar of a sentence to figure out if it is racist. It is about the intention and saying something that is directed about the color of someone's skin. This is not a difficult concept. Saying that ade's father washes elephants is obviously directed toasted him being black. Would anyone ever say that dzeko's father washes elephants? No. Quit being daft, racism is not that hard to identify.

And pepsi_Dave, your idea of racism is so narrow and skewed that I don't know if your joking or not. Racism is based on stereotypes that are 99% not true. Just because what you are saying isn't true doesnt mean that it isnt racist. In fact, if you go around spewing lies that are based on another person' skin color, you're racist.

If I call a black man a lazy, cotton picking, watermelon eating, fried chicken loving son of a bitch - it is racist. It doesn't matter if the black man in question is actually lazy, is actually employed to pick cotton, eats watermelons, or likes fried chicken. I am using stereotypes in an attempt to belittle and demean a certain class of people. Once again this is not a difficult concept.

[BlueinBosnia]

Elephant washer is just as denigrating as what Ron Atkinson called Desailly - and you know damned well that if Atkinson had called Desailly an elephant washer, he would have been sacked just as quickly

There's a big difference between saying someone washes elephants, and calling someone an elephant washer, in my opinion. The same difference as between calling a black person a 'bastard' or a 'black bastard', when he's not actually a bastard. The first is a general offence/joke/whatever way it was intended, the second is a racist offence.

Fuck me, this is hard work. How is "His dad washes elephants" any fucking different to calling his dad an elephant washer. They might as well have said his dad is a n***** - thats not racist towards Adebayor either.....doesnt stop it being fucking racist though

Whether its directly racist, has racist connotations, the fact is it is clearly racist.

Spuds as a club didnt like it when teams started singing about "Spurs are on their way to Belsen". Would you defend that as not being anti-semitic - as the ones who sung it might just have been singing about taking a holiday there because they didnt directly refer to jews being gassed.

You are either being deliberately argumentative, naive in the extreme or stupid to claim that "his dad washes elephants" doesnt have a racist undertone.

You seem to have difficulty following what I actually say, so I'll put things simply and succinctly:

First, 'elephant washer' is a derogatory term aimed at Indian people, like 'frog eater' at French.

If someone called his dad a 'frog eater', it could be interpreted as racist, as 'frog eater' can be seen as a racist insult, even though his dad is not French.

However, if someone said 'his dad eats frogs' - whether he does or not - it could not be construed as racist by anyone.

I never made the connection between the phrase 'Elephant Washer', a derogatory term for Indian people, and the line 'his dad washes elephants' in a song about Emanuel Adebayor, a Togolese, until you pointed it out. I guess most other people not hellbent on finding racist connotations in things are the same. I don't know whether the person who created the song had a racist intent (and if so, he, like you, really needs to look at a map, and see how far Togo is from India), but I'd hazard a guess that 90%+ of the people who sing the line don't make that tenuous connection.

On the 'Spurs are on their way to Belsen' song; Belsen is primarily known for its hosting of a concentration camp. Togo is not known primarily for its large Indian population.

[BlueinBosnia]

Elephant washer is just as denigrating as what Ron Atkinson called Desailly - and you know damned well that if Atkinson had called Desailly an elephant washer, he would have been sacked just as quickly

There's a big difference between saying someone washes elephants, and calling someone an elephant washer, in my opinion. The same difference as between calling a black person a 'bastard' or a 'black bastard', when he's not actually a bastard. The first is a general offence/joke/whatever way it was intended, the second is a racist offence.

No there isn't. You don't have to dissect the grammar of a sentence to figure out if it is racist. It is about the intention and saying something that is directed about the color of someone's skin. This is not a difficult concept. Saying that ade's father washes elephants is obviously directed toasted him being black. Would anyone ever say that dzeko's father washes elephants? No. Quit being daft, racism is not that hard to identify.

It's not the colour of his skin. It's his nation/continent of origin. Would people sing it about Felipe Caicedo? No. Bruce Grobelaar? Possibly.

Also, as stated 3 or 4 times before, 'Elephant washer' is a term aimed at Indians.

I agree, racism isn't hard to identify if you go out hunting for it. You misspelt 'Džeko' (some Bosnians can be very particular about the use of accents on letters in their name), and didn't bother to capitalise it. Does that make you racist?

[BlueinBosnia]

where was all this bollox when Arsenal fans threw bananas at Ade after his famous run last season at COMS? That for me was far more racist and direct and in fact was on film i'm pretty sure. You can see the bananas in fucking pictures.

It was a half-eaten burger. I know that you Yanks find it hard to distinguish between fruit and fast food, but still...

[bigblue]

Elephant washer is just as denigrating as what Ron Atkinson called Desailly - and you know damned well that if Atkinson had called Desailly an elephant washer, he would have been sacked just as quickly

There's a big difference between saying someone washes elephants, and calling someone an elephant washer, in my opinion. The same difference as between calling a black person a 'bastard' or a 'black bastard', when he's not actually a bastard. The first is a general offence/joke/whatever way it was intended, the second is a racist offence.

No there isn't. You don't have to dissect the grammar of a sentence to figure out if it is racist. It is about the intention and saying something that is directed about the color of someone's skin. This is not a difficult concept. Saying that ade's father washes elephants is obviously directed toasted him being black. Would anyone ever say that dzeko's father washes elephants? No. Quit being daft, racism is not that hard to identify.

It's not the colour of his skin. It's his nation/continent of origin. Would people sing it about Felipe Caicedo? No. Bruce Grobelaar? Possibly.

Also, as stated 3 or 4 times before, 'Elephant washer' is a term aimed at Indians.

I agree, racism isn't hard to identify if you go out hunting for it. You misspelt 'Džeko' (some Bosnians can be very particular about the use of accents on letters in their name), and didn't bother to capitalise it. Does that make you racist?

That last paragraph is beyond retarded and makes me lose complete hope in this argument. Just read this or something similar:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism

[BlueinBosnia]

That last paragraph is beyond retarded and makes me lose complete hope in this argument.

That's fine. Personally, I lost hope when people connected a lyric in a song about an African to an offensive term for Indians...

[me_innit]

Ahh, the classic approach. Instead of cutting the bullshit, admitting and confronting racism when it rears it's ugly head in any way, shape or form, let's rather deny, deny, deny. No wonder it's still thriving in 2011.

[colonel_muck]

blue in bosnia. i'm terrified for you. i quite simply cannot believe a person cannot believe the song is racist. i am speechless. here's some other logic, though i can see it's a bit futile; elephants are only natives of india and africa are they not? so weather it started out as a term for indians may be true, but it's quite likely here that it got used for africans too. Also everbody else in the thread knows its racist. Please just say you were naieve and we can all move on.

[blues-clues]

Calling a French Person a "Frog Eater" is not racist. It is just a xenophobic insult.

France is a nation and not a race.

This is the reason that Scottish universities can discriminate against English students. All Scottish and non English EU students get their fees paid at Scottish Universities. It is only the English who pay. But it is not racial discrimination because the the EU does not recognise the individual nations as races. This doesn't stop it being racism but it just highlights the facts that what is clearly racism to one person is clearly not racism to another.

The UN has no official definition of "racism", only "racial discrimination"!

[BlueinBosnia]

Ahh, the classic approach. Instead of cutting the bullshit, admitting and confronting racism when it rears it's ugly head in any way, shape or form, let's rather deny, deny, deny. No wonder it's still thriving in 2011.

The problem as I see it is that people see racism where it doesn't exist. I'm not saying that there isn't a racist intent behind this song, but the possibility of that had never occurred to me before.

On that note, the 'monkey noises' made by Croatia fans towards SWP were widely reported in the media as racism. Funnily, though, the same noises directed at Gary Neville weren't press-worthy for some reason. Such a chant is used for intimidatory purposes - to players of all ethnicities - in the Balkans (I've chanted like that to the famous black player John Arne Riise when Bosnia played Norway, although I'd never dream of doing it in Britain to any player, black or white). The problem is, UEFA's insensitivity towards cultural differences doesn't allow them to comprehend this. Ironic, really.

It's the same for the Celtic Cross- you know it's a banned symbol in football stadiums for its white power connotations? Even Wales fans are banned from using it on banners or flags, even though to them it means something totally different.

[Im_Spartacus]

That last paragraph is beyond retarded and makes me lose complete hope in this argument.

That's fine. Personally, I lost hope when people connected a lyric in a song about an African to an offensive term for Indians...

Did we not have colonies in Africa? Where I would assume the coloured folk washed the Elephants

[Im_Spartacus]

Here is a munich to put it into perspective. Think it sums the situation up nicely

http://therepublikofmancunia.com/city-a ... we-listen/

“Adebayor, Adebayor, your dad washes elephants, your mum is a whore!” the Spurs fans chanted, racially abusing the former Arsenal player when he was still playing for their rivals.

Sections of our crowd seemed to like this chant, maybe because they’re simple folk and enjoy things that rhyme, leading to it being sung inside Old Trafford – never in great numbers or at a great volume, but I’ve heard it.

After we won the league last season I had a few crossed words with a pissed up kid who was singing it as we walked down Warwick Road. “Come on lad, we’ve just won the league, let’s not bring racism in to our repertoire of songs eh?” He had a puzzled expression on his face, before responding “fuck off, it’s not racist, and I’ll sing what I want!”

Why is it racist? Implying that parents in Africa are elephant washers and whores is racism. Seems a fairly simple concept to me. Making generalisations of inferiority about a person of a certain race is racism. People have come on blog claiming their dad washes elephants at the zoo, brilliant, but that’s not what this chant is about. The chant is claiming that because Adebayor is from Togo, his parents are an elephant washer and a whore. Maybe you’re a white lad from Chester and your parents have the same job, but nobody would make that generalisation about lads from Chester.

United fans, if rival fans were singing this about Senegalese-born Evra, you would say it was racism. Spurs fans, if rivals fans were singing this about Cameroonian Sébastien Bassong, you would say it was racism. It’s all fine and well trying to justify it but it’s bloody obvious what the chant is about. It’s saying because he’s African, his parents have lowly jobs like an elephant washer and a whore. Maybe your mam is a whore too, good for you, that doesn’t change the motive behind people singing this at Adebayor.

Pinching some racist Spurs song should be below us really.

United take on City in a couple of weeks time and City have voiced their concerns over this chant doing the rounds. The hypocrisy that comes with this, given they have sung about Munich every time the clubs have met for as long as I’ve been going to derby day (with the exclusion of the Munich Memorial game, where they even chanting for Frank Swift, something they’d never done before and something they’ve never done since) is of course massive, like their club, but I hope our fans take our board the warnings. They will chant about Munich, they always do. Their latest chant, ‘Carlos Tevez is a blue, he hates Munichs’ will be sung. But let them get on with what they want, we don’t need to sink to that level. Listen out for their Adebayor song, which goes: ‘Adebayor, Adebayor, he’s hung like an elephant, his wife’s a bit sore.’

There will always be sections of our fans who sing songs the majority don’t like, but I really hope we don’t come down to their level on derby day.

You wouldn’t want them singing stuff about our Paddy Evra, so pack it in