The Yaya Toure 'Munich' song

[twosips]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion - [highlight]but surely you can't think its ever right to mock the dead?[/highlight] :|

Would you like it if someone you know died in the munich tragedy and city fans sang about it?

Is it right to mock the living? Just to extend the logic...

Whatever about the merits of the points about appropriate terminology, there were better ways of making them, and starting a shitfight isn't a good way to start if you want to win people over to your point of view. Go back and read over your posts, you've been at least as offensive as some of the people you claim to have a problem with.

Well i'm sorry. You're probably right. But it just infuriates me. I find it really hard to remain calm over something as horrible as this. Surely that's understandable? It just baffles me that people can't see how it could be offensive.

I can only apologise for the offensive remarks - but they weren't aimed at the decent fans. They were aimed at the ones who think its fine to sing about a tragedy. If they genuinely do believe that it is okay then that can't be a good thing can it? It's really really worrying.

However, though i do apologise about how i went about it - i don't apologise for the sentiments. I don't think i'm the problem here really am I? You're just nitpicking and ignoring the bigger picture if you do suggest that any further.

[Alioune DVToure]

There are shades of grey here in my opinion.

I call my scummer-supporting mates such things as 'muneboy' when we're having a laugh, but I wouldn't do an aeroplane gesture at a Manchester derby. The Tevez song doesn't offend me and nor does this Yaya song.

This thread is just descending into the same old 'here's the fence, pick a side' debate over the use of the term 'Munich', which is well-worn ground.

And in no way is it comparable to players receiving racist abuse from the stands. That is a ludicrous suggestion.

[Arjan Van Schotte]

There are shades of grey here in my opinion.

I call my scummer-supporting mates such things as 'muneboy' when we're having a laugh, but I wouldn't do an aeroplane gesture at a Manchester derby. The Tevez song doesn't offend me and nor does this Yaya song.

This thread is just descending into the same old 'here's the fence, pick a side' debate over the use of the term 'Munich', which is well-worn ground.

And in no way is it comparable to players receiving racist abuse from the stands. That is a ludicrous suggestion.

i don't see it as shades of grey at all.

munich was a plane crash that killed people. is that grounds for a laugh? would you be slightly more than annoyed if they started singing about marc vivien foe dying on the pitch?

we NEED to have this debate. we were impeccable on the anniversary at their place. what's changed?

[Ted Hughes]

There are shades of grey here in my opinion.

I call my scummer-supporting mates such things as 'muneboy' when we're having a laugh, but I wouldn't do an aeroplane gesture at a Manchester derby. The Tevez song doesn't offend me and nor does this Yaya song.

This thread is just descending into the same old 'here's the fence, pick a side' debate over the use of the term 'Munich', which is well-worn ground.

And in no way is it comparable to players receiving racist abuse from the stands. That is a ludicrous suggestion.

Perhaps not but to many people outside the club, it puts us down in the same catagory of lowlife scum who would do that. That's a perfectly good reason to just wipe the Munich word from our vocabulary. We don't gain anything from using it. The rags don't really care; they pretend to but actively encourage us to use it so we make cunts of ourselves. We oblige. We are owned by rags. It's pathetic.

[Beeks]

I'm one of those who's not arsed either way about the term Munichs

As much as the do gooders might want it to go away it never will..it's ingrained into the fans as much as wearing sky blue I'm afraid

I should imagine the older fans who remember the crash are more horrified about it than my generation and younger

To a lot of blues it's just a word to anger our rivals..it has been disassociated with people losing lives and is now just used as a derogotary word.

Sad but true

And I can sort of understand..if someone was taking the piss out of people who lost their lives in the battle of waterloo..or that german airship disaster..would you be so quick to judge?

People lose their lives everyday..what people decide to make of it is their choice

I'm sure nobody that uses the term Munich wishes anyone dead or rejoices in the plane crash..it's transcended that now

[bluej]

There are shades of grey here in my opinion.

I call my scummer-supporting mates such things as 'muneboy' when we're having a laugh, but I wouldn't do an aeroplane gesture at a Manchester derby. The Tevez song doesn't offend me and nor does this Yaya song.

This thread is just descending into the same old 'here's the fence, pick a side' debate over the use of the term 'Munich', which is well-worn ground.

And in no way is it comparable to players receiving racist abuse from the stands. That is a ludicrous suggestion.

I know what you mean, and I understand what some people mean by the term 'munich' but it's the way that everyone else in football interprets it, and that makes us look like cunts. 100% of the time.

Until someone finds a way to fit 'the team who has cashed in on the munich disaster and mistreated the surviving families' into a song then that will not change.

[twosips]

Yeah, I get that Beeks....but that doesn't mean its right though does it?

[Ted Hughes]

I'm one of those who's not arsed either way about the term Munichs

As much as the do gooders might want it to go away it never will..it's ingrained into the fans as much as wearing sky blue I'm afraid

I should imagine the older fans who remember the crash are more horrified about it than my generation and younger

To a lot of blues it's just a word to anger our rivals..it has been disassociated with people losing lives and is now just used as a derogotary word.

Sad but true

And I can sort of understand..if someone was taking the piss out of people who lost their lives in the battle of waterloo..or that german airship disaster..would you be so quick to judge?

People lose their lives everyday..what people decide to make of it is their choice

I'm sure nobody that uses the term Munich wishes anyone dead or rejoices in the plane crash..it's transcended that now

It's trancended it to SOME City fans.

The rest of the world just think we're wankers when they hear it. I don't understand why people don't care about that.

[Arjan Van Schotte]

I'm sure nobody that uses the term Munich wishes anyone dead or rejoices in the plane crash

them they need to think about what they're saying, develop some intelligence, and shut the fuck up.

[Alioune DVToure]

There are shades of grey here in my opinion.

I call my scummer-supporting mates such things as 'muneboy' when we're having a laugh, but I wouldn't do an aeroplane gesture at a Manchester derby. The Tevez song doesn't offend me and nor does this Yaya song.

This thread is just descending into the same old 'here's the fence, pick a side' debate over the use of the term 'Munich', which is well-worn ground.

And in no way is it comparable to players receiving racist abuse from the stands. That is a ludicrous suggestion.

i don't see it as shades of grey at all.

munich was a plane crash that killed people. is that grounds for a laugh? would you be slightly more than annoyed if they started singing about marc vivien foe dying on the pitch?

we NEED to have this debate. we were impeccable on the anniversary at their place. what's changed?

But it isn't the same, is it? I watched MVF play and remember the footage of him dying, as do most City fans of our generation. Any songs about 'sudden death' etc are much more overtly offensive than a reference in passing to "the Munichs' net".

Like I said I don't engage in stuff like singing "Who's that lying on the runway?" and aeroplane gestures at the ground, which I DO find offensive and embarrassing, but I doubt that the Yaya song has caused any tears tonight among descendants of the Munich disaster victims.

This is my opinion by the way. I'm not trying to get you to agree with me. If you were offended by it, fair enough. I'm comfortable with where I sit on the Munich debate.

[twosips]

There are shades of grey here in my opinion.

I call my scummer-supporting mates such things as 'muneboy' when we're having a laugh, but I wouldn't do an aeroplane gesture at a Manchester derby. The Tevez song doesn't offend me and nor does this Yaya song.

This thread is just descending into the same old 'here's the fence, pick a side' debate over the use of the term 'Munich', which is well-worn ground.

And in no way is it comparable to players receiving racist abuse from the stands. That is a ludicrous suggestion.

i don't see it as shades of grey at all.

munich was a plane crash that killed people. is that grounds for a laugh? would you be slightly more than annoyed if they started singing about marc vivien foe dying on the pitch?

we NEED to have this debate. we were impeccable on the anniversary at their place. what's changed?

Once again - so fucking right.

This debate NEEDS to happen. There needs to be an outrage. We need to realise that every time these songs are sung people think we have no respect for the dead - and that we enjoy reminding United that they lost so many people in a horrific tragedy that killed so many people. It's just not on.

Just because everyone is used to it at City's ground it doesn't mean its alright. I know this sounds silly, but in a few years time i'll no doubt have kids of my own. I genuinely wouldn't want to take them to a game where they would hear these songs. I want my kids to have respect for the dead! Not think its ok 'cos everyone does it'. It's never okay. It's mindless. It's embarrassing. It's cruel and its incredibly thick.

Wouldn't it be fucking ironic if we went from being known as the lower struggles, with the best fans in the land, to the successful global team, known for singing songs about a horrific tragedy - cos the way the media are gonna pick up on this then its gonna happen! As if we need even more reasons for everyone to hate us.

Sigh.

[Arjan Van Schotte]

There are shades of grey here in my opinion.

I call my scummer-supporting mates such things as 'muneboy' when we're having a laugh, but I wouldn't do an aeroplane gesture at a Manchester derby. The Tevez song doesn't offend me and nor does this Yaya song.

This thread is just descending into the same old 'here's the fence, pick a side' debate over the use of the term 'Munich', which is well-worn ground.

And in no way is it comparable to players receiving racist abuse from the stands. That is a ludicrous suggestion.

i don't see it as shades of grey at all.

munich was a plane crash that killed people. is that grounds for a laugh? would you be slightly more than annoyed if they started singing about marc vivien foe dying on the pitch?

we NEED to have this debate. we were impeccable on the anniversary at their place. what's changed?

But it isn't the same, is it?

why not - are you saying that none of the united fans remember that? why do we have to reference munich so often?

no excuses - any references lacks taste.

[ronk]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion - [highlight]but surely you can't think its ever right to mock the dead?[/highlight] :|

Would you like it if someone you know died in the munich tragedy and city fans sang about it?

Is it right to mock the living? Just to extend the logic...

Whatever about the merits of the points about appropriate terminology, there were better ways of making them, and starting a shitfight isn't a good way to start if you want to win people over to your point of view. Go back and read over your posts, you've been at least as offensive as some of the people you claim to have a problem with.

Well i'm sorry. You're probably right. But it just infuriates me. I find it really hard to remain calm over something as horrible as this. Surely that's understandable? It just baffles me that people can't see how it could be offensive.

I can only apologise for the offensive remarks - but they weren't aimed at the decent fans. They were aimed at the ones who think its fine to sing about a tragedy. If they genuinely do believe that it is okay then that can't be a good thing can it? It's really really worrying.

However, though i do apologise about how i went about it - i don't apologise for the sentiments. I don't think i'm the problem here really am I? You're just nitpicking and ignoring the bigger picture if you do suggest that any further.

And you shouldn't. It's just that this is a debate that some on here have had many times before and are leery of going through again and again. It's a shame that it does come up again and again, maybe the answer is to be more pro-active in terms of eliminating its use, not just through reaction against when it's used, but also through adopting better phraseology so it doesn't get used, i.e. by proposing an amendment. "Munich" is, unfortunately, a unique nickname that refers only to united, we don't really have another that people would naturally use and that has helped it persist.

[Arjan Van Schotte]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion - [highlight]but surely you can't think its ever right to mock the dead?[/highlight] :|

Would you like it if someone you know died in the munich tragedy and city fans sang about it?

Is it right to mock the living? Just to extend the logic...

Whatever about the merits of the points about appropriate terminology, there were better ways of making them, and starting a shitfight isn't a good way to start if you want to win people over to your point of view. Go back and read over your posts, you've been at least as offensive as some of the people you claim to have a problem with.

Well i'm sorry. You're probably right. But it just infuriates me. I find it really hard to remain calm over something as horrible as this. Surely that's understandable? It just baffles me that people can't see how it could be offensive.

I can only apologise for the offensive remarks - but they weren't aimed at the decent fans. They were aimed at the ones who think its fine to sing about a tragedy. If they genuinely do believe that it is okay then that can't be a good thing can it? It's really really worrying.

However, though i do apologise about how i went about it - i don't apologise for the sentiments. I don't think i'm the problem here really am I? You're just nitpicking and ignoring the bigger picture if you do suggest that any further.

And you shouldn't. It's just that this is a debate that some on here have had many times before and are leery of going through again and again. It's a shame that it does come up again and again, maybe the answer is to be more pro-active in terms of eliminating its use, not just through reaction against when it's used, but also through adopting better phraseology so it doesn't get used, i.e. by proposing an amendment. "Munich" is, unfortunately, a unique nickname that refers only to united, we don't really have another that people would naturally use and that has helped it persist.

how bout "rags" "cunts", "reds", or dare i say it "yernited".

[Cheesy]

FFS, it damages our club.

Why can't the thick fuckers who sing this stuff realise this? Are they really that fucking dim?

[globalbollox]

There are shades of grey here in my opinion.

I call my scummer-supporting mates such things as 'muneboy' when we're having a laugh, but I wouldn't do an aeroplane gesture at a Manchester derby. The Tevez song doesn't offend me and nor does this Yaya song.

This thread is just descending into the same old 'here's the fence, pick a side' debate over the use of the term 'Munich', which is well-worn ground.

And in no way is it comparable to players receiving racist abuse from the stands. That is a ludicrous suggestion.

Perhaps not but to many people outside the club, it puts us down in the same catagory of lowlife scum who would do that. That's a perfectly good reason to[highlight]just wipe the Munich word from our vocabulary[/highlight]. We don't gain anything from using it. The rags don't really care; they pretend to but actively encourage us to use it so we make cunts of ourselves. We oblige. We are owned by rags. It's pathetic.

Newspeak, alive and growing on Man City fans .net.

[twosips]

Exactly. Arjen's suggestions are perfectly fine. Why can't they be used?

[Alioune DVToure]

There are shades of grey here in my opinion.

I call my scummer-supporting mates such things as 'muneboy' when we're having a laugh, but I wouldn't do an aeroplane gesture at a Manchester derby. The Tevez song doesn't offend me and nor does this Yaya song.

This thread is just descending into the same old 'here's the fence, pick a side' debate over the use of the term 'Munich', which is well-worn ground.

And in no way is it comparable to players receiving racist abuse from the stands. That is a ludicrous suggestion.

i don't see it as shades of grey at all.

munich was a plane crash that killed people. is that grounds for a laugh? would you be slightly more than annoyed if they started singing about marc vivien foe dying on the pitch?

we NEED to have this debate. we were impeccable on the anniversary at their place. what's changed?

But it isn't the same, is it?

why not - are you saying that none of the united fans remember that? why do we have to reference munich so often?

no excuses - any references lacks taste.

I explained why in the rest of my comment which, for some reason, you chose to delete when quoting it.

[Arjan Van Schotte]

Newspeak, alive and growing on Man City fans .net.

if you think referencing orwell makes you clever, whilst completely avoiding the actual debate. then well done you.

[Ted Hughes]

There are shades of grey here in my opinion.

I call my scummer-supporting mates such things as 'muneboy' when we're having a laugh, but I wouldn't do an aeroplane gesture at a Manchester derby. The Tevez song doesn't offend me and nor does this Yaya song.

This thread is just descending into the same old 'here's the fence, pick a side' debate over the use of the term 'Munich', which is well-worn ground.

And in no way is it comparable to players receiving racist abuse from the stands. That is a ludicrous suggestion.

Perhaps not but to many people outside the club, it puts us down in the same catagory of lowlife scum who would do that. That's a perfectly good reason to[highlight]just wipe the Munich word from our vocabulary[/highlight]. We don't gain anything from using it. The rags don't really care; they pretend to but actively encourage us to use it so we make cunts of ourselves. We oblige. We are owned by rags. It's pathetic.

Newspeak, alive and growing on Man City fans .net.

Knob.

We can keep that one.