Napoli's 5-4-1

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

I think we created very few chances & if Napoli had been better in their use of the ball, could have been 2 or 3 down by half time in spite of dominating. On numerous occasions they had numbers on the break but lacked the quality to make the most of it (players shooting wildly rather than calmly killing us off etc). If the rags, Chelsea or Liverpool had the same space on the break they would humilliate us. We got that part of the game badly wrong & tactically were a mess.

It's not particularly their system that caused the trouble though it's just the sheer numbers they had behind the ball. We did the same v Arsenal away etc last season but we lacked the attacking breakaways; we just sat there, Napoli didn't.

If we had scored early, it would have been a massacre as we started well but as the game went on, we did well to get a draw as we'd tactically disintegrated.

Sorry mate but that's simply not true. They had one clear cut chance in first half, the crossbar, and that was it. They didn't have three shots on target in first half, never mind chance to score three.

I'd encourage people to watch the game again. There was 15 minute period in second half when they dominated the game. That was it.

[PeterParker]

For me was a horror not seeing the game, but from what i've heard on the live commentary from the official site, Napoli controlled the sides where Zaba and Kola had a lot of problems with Hamsik and Lavezzi.
Imho, with Micah and Clichy to stop we could had won this last night. Kola isn't the most fastest player in the world and i really think that Mazzari knew that and he did well to attack us in that part.

If the groupe table will get us over Napoli, before the game in Italy, then we will have a ten times easier game than the one we had last night. There we will be in the posture to counter attack and we all seen what damage that can do.

[Ted Hughes]

I think we created very few chances & if Napoli had been better in their use of the ball, could have been 2 or 3 down by half time in spite of dominating. On numerous occasions they had numbers on the break but lacked the quality to make the most of it (players shooting wildly rather than calmly killing us off etc). If the rags, Chelsea or Liverpool had the same space on the break they would humilliate us. We got that part of the game badly wrong & tactically were a mess.

It's not particularly their system that caused the trouble though it's just the sheer numbers they had behind the ball. We did the same v Arsenal away etc last season but we lacked the attacking breakaways; we just sat there, Napoli didn't.

If we had scored early, it would have been a massacre as we started well but as the game went on, we did well to get a draw as we'd tactically disintegrated.

Sorry mate but that's simply not true. They had one clear cut chance in first half, the crossbar, and that was it. They didn't have three shots on target in first half, never mind chance to score three.

I'd encourage people to watch the game again. There was 15 minute period in second half when they dominated the game. That was it.

I was sat level with our box looking at a bunch of Napoli players running through our half relatively unchecked with more than half our team stranded. I thought what they did with the ball was utter shite but when an away side gets a run like that, it means that sooner or later they'll probably get one right. Swap their forwards for ours, in fact swap them for Tevez, Bellamy & SWP & stick them in the same position & you're fucking struggling.

It's very rare we let a PL side get that kind of situation & when they do, half the time they score; even the shit ones.

[Blue Since 76]

Surprised no one has man marked silva previously, but it's something which doesn't happen in England. Not sure teams here would be disciplined enough to do it.

Not sure if Richards is still carrying an injury, but resting Clichy was a key mistake. No surprise that we brought on a defender when we needed a goal, as he's been the one offering the width. Bayern away will be different, as they need to attack and w e can do a napoli to them. Wouldn't be at all surprised to get a win there.

[Bridge'srightfoot]

It was very foolish to bring Clichy and Johnson on and take Dzeko off.

[PALUS]

people its not that napoli have such a genius tactic or somthing , we just didnt have a good night , think manchini make few small erors fullbacks shuld be clichy an richards becose of speed to strech defence leave room for silva and nasri and give a few good ball to dzeko and kun and becose of speed they could prevent counteratack bether then zaba and kolarov , the second mistake was in momentum when we give a goal start to press manchini make sabstitute give 30 sec napoli to recover and orginaze and change tevez for dzeko , i think in last 10 minuts u need tall and strong players when the side is defending but ok i m sure he lern and i have feeling we comming with 3 pts from munich..

[dazby]

Call it genius, call it common sense, it worked. It worked where 4 previous managers had failed. It worked and we'll see it again.

[Ted Hughes]

Call it genius, call it common sense, it worked. It worked where 4 previous managers had failed. It worked and we'll see it again.

We've seen similar tactics plenty of times before & it's worked against us plenty of times before. Whatever name you put to a formation like that, it's basically having most of the team defending. AC Milan achieved a similar result at Barca with what was technically a 4-4-2 but it played the same way, albeit with not as much effort to break away.

Next week, we play a team who has done that & beaten us at home through 3 successive managers; Everton.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

Call it genius, call it common sense, it worked. It worked where 4 previous managers had failed. It worked and we'll see it again.

You don't see any sort of difference in talent available between Wigan and Napoli, the Serie A champions?

I thought it was embarrasing tactics in Champion's League level from the champions of one of the supposed top three leagues in the world. Back against the wall catenaccio and couple of counter attacks hoping for the best.

I've seen that system with City before by the way. It was more or less how Pearce set us to play. Only with better players.

Anyway, you make it sound like they actually won.

[CityGer]

Call it genius, call it common sense, it worked. It worked where 4 previous managers had failed. It worked and we'll see it again.

You don't see any sort of difference in talent available between Wigan and Napoli, the Serie A champions?

I thought it was embarrasing tactics in Champion's League level from the champions of one of the supposed top three leagues in the world. Back against the wall catenaccio and couple of counter attacks hoping for the best.

I've seen that system with City before by the way. It was more or less how Pearce set us to play. Only with better players.

Anyway, you make it sound like they actually won.

Why do you keep refering to them as Serie A Champions??

[Im_Spartacus]

Call it genius, call it common sense, it worked. It worked where 4 previous managers had failed. It worked and we'll see it again.

You don't see any sort of difference in talent available between Wigan and Napoli, the Serie A champions?

I thought it was embarrasing tactics in Champion's League level from the champions of one of the supposed top three leagues in the world. Back against the wall catenaccio and couple of counter attacks hoping for the best.

I've seen that system with City before by the way. It was more or less how Pearce set us to play. Only with better players.

Anyway, you make it sound like they actually won.

When did Napoli win the league, or are you talking about Milan? Either way, both sides got the result they set out to get, and both can actually count themselves unlucky not to have sneaked away with an unlikely victory

[Ted Hughes]

Call it genius, call it common sense, it worked. It worked where 4 previous managers had failed. It worked and we'll see it again.

You don't see any sort of difference in talent available between Wigan and Napoli, the Serie A champions?

I thought it was embarrasing tactics in Champion's League level from the champions of one of the supposed top three leagues in the world. Back against the wall catenaccio and couple of counter attacks hoping for the best.

I've seen that system with City before by the way. It was more or less how Pearce set us to play. Only with better players.

Anyway, you make it sound like they actually won.

When did Napoli win the league, or are you talking about Milan? Either way, both sides got the result they set out to get, and both can actually count themselves unlucky not to have sneaked away with an unlikely victory

More teams have won European trophies by playing many of their games with that attitude than by playing like Barca. Sad but true. Italians have been responsible for a lot of it too.

[mcfc1632]

3 centrebacks, wing backs that tuck in, a midfield that manmarks Silva and is fluid enough to block the channels, and a fast counter attack. Have Napoli shown the Prem how to play against us at home? How many managers will follow suit? Does Mancio have the solution to unlocking it?

Towards the end of the game I turned to my dad and said almost those words - I see a lot of lessons being learned by PL sides to try and do the same - but will they have the personnel?

Also, we should have the options to adapt.

What I did think about on Wednesday was the importance that de Jong can play in our squad against counter-attacking teams. If our approach is to get the FBs forward to support a very attacking front 5 then having Nige to cover the counter would be great insurance - the lad that broke for their goal would not have got past Nige as he did Nasri - nothing negative about Nasri meant there - but Nige would have taken the player out - not dirty - just professional in today's game

[Ted Hughes]

3 centrebacks, wing backs that tuck in, a midfield that manmarks Silva and is fluid enough to block the channels, and a fast counter attack. Have Napoli shown the Prem how to play against us at home? How many managers will follow suit? Does Mancio have the solution to unlocking it?

Towards the end of the game I turned to my dad and said almost those words - I see a lot of lessons being learned by PL sides to try and do the same - but will they have the personnel?

Also, we should have the options to adapt.

What I did think about on Wednesday was the importance that de Jong can play in our squad against counter-attacking teams. If our approach is to get the FBs forward to support a very attacking front 5 then having Nige to cover the counter would be great insurance - the lad that broke for their goal would not have got past Nige as he did Nasri - nothing negative about Nasri meant there - but Nige would have taken the player out - not dirty - just professional in today's game

But, as has been said, loads of Premier League sides, indeed sides from before the Premier League existed, have played exactly the same way. This isn't anything new. Keegan & Pearce did it in some games for a start. Richerd fucking Dunne played as a so called right wingback in the game v Preston under Keegan:

Man City: Weaver, Mettomo, Wiekens, Pearce (Dickov 79), Dunne, Etuhu, Benarbia (Berkovic 74), Tiatto, Granville, Huckerby (Colosimo 90), Goater.

Look how many defensive players we have in that team & what happened? Jon Macken scored from the fucking half way line. Keegan then binned it & played attacking wingbacks instead.

[Kladze]

3 centrebacks, wing backs that tuck in, a midfield that manmarks Silva and is fluid enough to block the channels, and a fast counter attack. Have Napoli shown the Prem how to play against us at home? How many managers will follow suit? Does Mancio have the solution to unlocking it?

Towards the end of the game I turned to my dad and said almost those words - I see a lot of lessons being learned by PL sides to try and do the same - but will they have the personnel?

Also, we should have the options to adapt.

What I did think about on Wednesday was the importance that de Jong can play in our squad against counter-attacking teams. If our approach is to get the FBs forward to support a very attacking front 5 then having Nige to cover the counter would be great insurance - the lad that broke for their goal would not have got past Nige as he did Nasri - nothing negative about Nasri meant there - but Nige would have taken the player out - not dirty - just professional in today's game

But, as has been said, loads of Premier League sides, indeed sides from before the Premier League existed, have played exactly the same way. This isn't anything new. Keegan & Pearce did it in some games for a start. Richerd fucking Dunne played as a so called right wingback in the game v Preston under Keegan:

Man City: Weaver, Mettomo, Wiekens, Pearce (Dickov 79), Dunne, Etuhu, Benarbia (Berkovic 74), Tiatto, Granville, Huckerby (Colosimo 90), Goater.

Look how many defensive players we have in that team & what happened? Jon Macken scored from the fucking half way line. Keegan then binned it & played attacking wingbacks instead.

There is a huge difference between Napoli playing that way and the vast majority of premier league sides trying to play that way.
Napoli were exceptionally disciplined about it - I got very frustrated that they seemed able to cover every run our forwards made (not helped, of course, by our lack of width and our over eagerness to get too many players standing on the same blade of grass).

But, as someone else has already asked : will premier league teams, on the whole, have the personnel to carry out such tactics so effectively?

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

Call it genius, call it common sense, it worked. It worked where 4 previous managers had failed. It worked and we'll see it again.

You don't see any sort of difference in talent available between Wigan and Napoli, the Serie A champions?

I thought it was embarrasing tactics in Champion's League level from the champions of one of the supposed top three leagues in the world. Back against the wall catenaccio and couple of counter attacks hoping for the best.

I've seen that system with City before by the way. It was more or less how Pearce set us to play. Only with better players.

Anyway, you make it sound like they actually won.

Why do you keep refering to them as Serie A Champions??

Uuurrggghh....I don't know why I remembered they won Serie A last season.

Point stands still though.

[Ted Hughes]

3 centrebacks, wing backs that tuck in, a midfield that manmarks Silva and is fluid enough to block the channels, and a fast counter attack. Have Napoli shown the Prem how to play against us at home? How many managers will follow suit? Does Mancio have the solution to unlocking it?

Towards the end of the game I turned to my dad and said almost those words - I see a lot of lessons being learned by PL sides to try and do the same - but will they have the personnel?

Also, we should have the options to adapt.

What I did think about on Wednesday was the importance that de Jong can play in our squad against counter-attacking teams. If our approach is to get the FBs forward to support a very attacking front 5 then having Nige to cover the counter would be great insurance - the lad that broke for their goal would not have got past Nige as he did Nasri - nothing negative about Nasri meant there - but Nige would have taken the player out - not dirty - just professional in today's game

But, as has been said, loads of Premier League sides, indeed sides from before the Premier League existed, have played exactly the same way. This isn't anything new. Keegan & Pearce did it in some games for a start. Richerd fucking Dunne played as a so called right wingback in the game v Preston under Keegan:

Man City: Weaver, Mettomo, Wiekens, Pearce (Dickov 79), Dunne, Etuhu, Benarbia (Berkovic 74), Tiatto, Granville, Huckerby (Colosimo 90), Goater.

Look how many defensive players we have in that team & what happened? Jon Macken scored from the fucking half way line. Keegan then binned it & played attacking wingbacks instead.

There is a huge difference between Napoli playing that way and the vast majority of premier league sides trying to play that way.
Napoli were exceptionally disciplined about it - I got very frustrated that they seemed able to cover every run our forwards made (not helped, of course, by our lack of width and our over eagerness to get too many players standing on the same blade of grass).

But, as someone else has already asked : will premier league teams, on the whole, have the personnel to carry out such tactics so effectively?

How have we fared on the whole v Everton ? Much worse than v Naploi I'd say. If Stoke played Napoli & had everyone behind the ball would Napoli break them down for sure or would stoke score 4 from long throw ins? If we had been more clinical from corners, would Napoli's tactics still have worked ? Rags or Chelsea would have changed tactics & beat Napoli with crosses & set pieces, then run rings round them when they came out chasing the game. there was nothing new about what Napoli did. Sides have been trying, and failing miserably, to do the same at OT and Anfield before that & Elland Rd before that. Occasionally, one team gets away with it; occasionally. When we are as good as those teams, we will beat most teams like Napoli. If we don't we'll have a new manager who will.

[Kladze]

3 centrebacks, wing backs that tuck in, a midfield that manmarks Silva and is fluid enough to block the channels, and a fast counter attack. Have Napoli shown the Prem how to play against us at home? How many managers will follow suit? Does Mancio have the solution to unlocking it?

Towards the end of the game I turned to my dad and said almost those words - I see a lot of lessons being learned by PL sides to try and do the same - but will they have the personnel?

Also, we should have the options to adapt.

What I did think about on Wednesday was the importance that de Jong can play in our squad against counter-attacking teams. If our approach is to get the FBs forward to support a very attacking front 5 then having Nige to cover the counter would be great insurance - the lad that broke for their goal would not have got past Nige as he did Nasri - nothing negative about Nasri meant there - but Nige would have taken the player out - not dirty - just professional in today's game

But, as has been said, loads of Premier League sides, indeed sides from before the Premier League existed, have played exactly the same way. This isn't anything new. Keegan & Pearce did it in some games for a start. Richerd fucking Dunne played as a so called right wingback in the game v Preston under Keegan:

Man City: Weaver, Mettomo, Wiekens, Pearce (Dickov 79), Dunne, Etuhu, Benarbia (Berkovic 74), Tiatto, Granville, Huckerby (Colosimo 90), Goater.

Look how many defensive players we have in that team & what happened? Jon Macken scored from the fucking half way line. Keegan then binned it & played attacking wingbacks instead.

There is a huge difference between Napoli playing that way and the vast majority of premier league sides trying to play that way.
Napoli were exceptionally disciplined about it - I got very frustrated that they seemed able to cover every run our forwards made (not helped, of course, by our lack of width and our over eagerness to get too many players standing on the same blade of grass).

But, as someone else has already asked : will premier league teams, on the whole, have the personnel to carry out such tactics so effectively?

How have we fared on the whole v Everton ? Much worse than v Naploi I'd say. If Stoke played Napoli & had everyone behind the ball would Napoli break them down for sure or would stoke score 4 from long throw ins? If we had been more clinical from corners, would Napoli's tactics still have worked ? Rags or Chelsea would have changed tactics & beat Napoli with crosses & set pieces, then run rings round them when they came out chasing the game. there was nothing new about what Napoli did. Sides have been trying, and failing miserably, to do the same at OT and Anfield before that & Elland Rd before that. Occasionally, one team gets away with it; occasionally. When we are as good as those teams, we will beat most teams like Napoli. If we don't we'll have a new manager who will.

Oh I appreciate that we played into their hands Ted - my above post says as much :-)

[Ted Hughes]

Interestingly (or not) enough, we once played an Italian team who were even better at that game than Napoli; riddled with world class hatchetmen & world class attackers.

Look how we got our goal.

[youtube]Ks5y3iq7vac[/youtube]

In those days of course, there was no league, so even at 0-1 they just carried on playing the same way as 0-1 was a good result for them. Then they just beat us 2-0 at their place & that was that.

P.S. Notice Joe Royle's 'impossible' header, flicking on a ball with his forehead that goes backwards.

[brite blu sky]

Between all the comments on this we have got it about right imo. Napoli were set up right to do what they did. It is dull. Teams will try to copy it yes. But City made it easier for Napoli by not adjusting our play and getting sucked into their game. That won't happen too often, mainly cos we will score and the dynamic changes, but also because we will learn to deal with it better.. from experiences like the other night. Also PL teams dont have the personnel on the whole.
Bob has said now on three occasions since Wed that we lost our shape, so he knows what the problem is.

As said occasionally this kind of thing happens. it isn't about changing or needing certain players either imo, all our players are good enough. It is all about discipline and the experience to adapt.

While City might do amazingly well this season we still have to allow them to learn as a team and for players to grow into roles.