Mancini : Tevez refused to take to the field [merged]

[saulman]

Sorry Beefy, but whilst I appreciate your post and you taking the time to see from a different perspective, none of that matters.

The bottom line is that City pay Tevez a shit load of money to do exactly what Mancini tells him to do. If he doesn't do that for any reason, then he's history. That goes for any other player with that attitude too.

[Beefymcfc]

Sorry Beefy, but whilst I appreciate your post and you taking the time to see from a different perspective, none of that matters.

The bottom line is that City pay Tevez a shit load of money to do exactly what Mancini tells him to do. If he doesn't do that for any reason, then he's history. That goes for any other player with that attitude too.

No disagreement from me mate, just a different perspective.

Hopefully the 'Up to 2 Weeks Suspension' won't need to be used and we can resolve this very soon.

[BobKowalski]

Now I've seen it all from different angles, I think this is all going to come down to a miscommunication problem.

How can it? To suggest that a player doesn't understand an instruction to either warm up or play is beyond ridiculous.

Tevez is paid an awful lot of money to do exactly what Mancini tells him. That's the bottom line.

Because I'm trying to look at it from both perspectives, not just the closed view of 'He should be shot!', although, that's how I was feeling.

But seeing as you asked, here's another view. Carlos came back and was welcomed with near open arms by Bobby because of his professionalism and what he had done for the club prior to wanting away; it was a fresh start (ish). So, this season he gets himself checked into a clinic to lose some weight and turns up just needing to get up to fitness and settle back into the group. He gets on with that and seems to be doing well in training and finally reach the bench against Bolton, finishing with a 20 minute run and seeing the game out. He then misses out at the Spurs game and gets a recall for the Wigan game, going off at 1-0 up. Since then he's only started the CC and played cameo roles in the dying embers of the other games whilst in each one he's been out warming up ready for the nod from the manager.

Come the Bayern game, he's looked to the Fulham and Everton games and noted that he's not at the top of his game and believes this could be the one to prove he's still got what it takes, especially after Mancini publicly saying that he'll probably get the Bayern match. We all know that football players, especially top ones (even Edin's possibly getting one now), have big ego's and these can be bruised quite easily. Carlos gets told he is sub again and we're going for a similar formation that has won us games so although disconsulate that he doesn't get a game, he has to go with it as he knows he has no leg to stand on because of previous form.

The game gets underway and we do well for the first 20 mins or so and Edin should have spanked one into the back of the net, disappointing for all but eh, that's how it goes. During this, Tevez is warming up just in case he is needed, the goals go in and he's thinking we could be doing better with him on the pitch; maybe the 2nd half is his time.

During the break, they may have been told (only surmising) that if we don't improve then there'll be changes, possibly up front. The game gets underway and it gets worse and him and Nige are sent out to get warmed up, which they do with no hassle. Nige is called back over and gets the call for Dzeko (Carlos carries on warming up), rather than Carlos, which leaves Tevez quietly bubbling on the sidelines wondering what is going on (I'm sure most of us were thinking the same at the time although after a few seconds thought we'd probably twigged that he was shoring things up before the attacking change).

The next minute, Mancini barks for Tevez to get warmed up, again, to which Carlos snaps that he is already warmed up and ready to go whilst thinking that Mancini is taking the piss and his frustrations out on him - warm up, sit down, warm up, sit down. Basically saying that he is ready to go and that if Mancini really wants him to play, he'll put him on now with enough time to make a change to the scoreline. Mancini, who as already lost it by this time gets one of the lads to asks the physio (or whoever it was) to intervene and get him warming up, to which Carlos confirmed he was ready. Mancini is not having any of it and makes alternate changes and sits looking at the floor and the rest is history.

This is how I see it went and with the knowledge that he was chatting with the likes of Vieira et al, and after him making his statement, there could be call that this was the course of events. Yes, it was pathetic and childish for Tevez to not get up and do as he had been told, but prior experiences during the season have told him that he's not necessarily going to get on the pitch. And I do reckon that if he was told to get his jacket off, he would've done so without question but to get up and warm-up again to possibly sit down again was just a step to far. He tried to force the issue and it backfired, for all of us.

It's just a different perspective from what I've seen over the last couple of days. Only got to see the match last night and listened to it on the radio which didn't really have much to say about the incident until they got a brief from Sky, and that's when they dived on the back of it because our game was so dire.

Well there was a lot of surmising going on there but I'll take your point although my own views on the matter are somewhat different.

Firstly I don't think Carlos was welcomed back with open arms by Mancini. Mancini would have swapped Carlos for a handful of magic beans in the summer although Eto'o would have done nicely for Mancini. There was conflict between Cook and Mancini over transfer policy with one side wanting as much bucks for Carlos or he stays and Mancini thinking a 30 y/o striker as cover for a player who just wants out would be ideal.

The boards position was understandable from a financial perspective but that is not Mancini's concern and as it turned out the board won out and its now blown up in our faces. Going forward Mancini was never going to risk building a team around a player who wants out and hands in transfer requests just when we get top spot in the PL. Its not worth it and makes no sense and unless you build the team round Tevez and give him preferential treatment having Tevez in the squad will never work. It didn't at Manu when Berbatov came in and Tevez was relegated to bit part player and it won't work here when we brought in Kun.

Tevez is all about him. Which is fine if you build the team round him and pander to his wants and desires. Mancini is no longer willing to do that. The club seems no longer inclined to do it either leaving Tevez just to be part of the squad. No longer Captain. No longer the leader, fans favourite, no longer the man. Tevez hates competition for top dog and can't handle no longer being top dog and being top dog was his consolation for being at a club he doesn't want to be part of.

You can argue that Mancini should have pandered to Tevez and played him despite weight issues, fitness issues or form issues. Or you can argue that Mancini should take the long view and build a team that panders to no one player and has players that do not require the world to pander to them 24/7.

Pick the first option and this thread doesn't exist. Pick the second option and well here we are.

[Beefymcfc]

Now I've seen it all from different angles, I think this is all going to come down to a miscommunication problem.

How can it? To suggest that a player doesn't understand an instruction to either warm up or play is beyond ridiculous.

Tevez is paid an awful lot of money to do exactly what Mancini tells him. That's the bottom line.

Because I'm trying to look at it from both perspectives, not just the closed view of 'He should be shot!', although, that's how I was feeling.

But seeing as you asked, here's another view. Carlos came back and was welcomed with near open arms by Bobby because of his professionalism and what he had done for the club prior to wanting away; it was a fresh start (ish). So, this season he gets himself checked into a clinic to lose some weight and turns up just needing to get up to fitness and settle back into the group. He gets on with that and seems to be doing well in training and finally reach the bench against Bolton, finishing with a 20 minute run and seeing the game out. He then misses out at the Spurs game and gets a recall for the Wigan game, going off at 1-0 up. Since then he's only started the CC and played cameo roles in the dying embers of the other games whilst in each one he's been out warming up ready for the nod from the manager.

Come the Bayern game, he's looked to the Fulham and Everton games and noted that he's not at the top of his game and believes this could be the one to prove he's still got what it takes, especially after Mancini publicly saying that he'll probably get the Bayern match. We all know that football players, especially top ones (even Edin's possibly getting one now), have big ego's and these can be bruised quite easily. Carlos gets told he is sub again and we're going for a similar formation that has won us games so although disconsulate that he doesn't get a game, he has to go with it as he knows he has no leg to stand on because of previous form.

The game gets underway and we do well for the first 20 mins or so and Edin should have spanked one into the back of the net, disappointing for all but eh, that's how it goes. During this, Tevez is warming up just in case he is needed, the goals go in and he's thinking we could be doing better with him on the pitch; maybe the 2nd half is his time.

During the break, they may have been told (only surmising) that if we don't improve then there'll be changes, possibly up front. The game gets underway and it gets worse and him and Nige are sent out to get warmed up, which they do with no hassle. Nige is called back over and gets the call for Dzeko (Carlos carries on warming up), rather than Carlos, which leaves Tevez quietly bubbling on the sidelines wondering what is going on (I'm sure most of us were thinking the same at the time although after a few seconds thought we'd probably twigged that he was shoring things up before the attacking change).

The next minute, Mancini barks for Tevez to get warmed up, again, to which Carlos snaps that he is already warmed up and ready to go whilst thinking that Mancini is taking the piss and his frustrations out on him - warm up, sit down, warm up, sit down. Basically saying that he is ready to go and that if Mancini really wants him to play, he'll put him on now with enough time to make a change to the scoreline. Mancini, who as already lost it by this time gets one of the lads to asks the physio (or whoever it was) to intervene and get him warming up, to which Carlos confirmed he was ready. Mancini is not having any of it and makes alternate changes and sits looking at the floor and the rest is history.

This is how I see it went and with the knowledge that he was chatting with the likes of Vieira et al, and after him making his statement, there could be call that this was the course of events. Yes, it was pathetic and childish for Tevez to not get up and do as he had been told, but prior experiences during the season have told him that he's not necessarily going to get on the pitch. And I do reckon that if he was told to get his jacket off, he would've done so without question but to get up and warm-up again to possibly sit down again was just a step to far. He tried to force the issue and it backfired, for all of us.

It's just a different perspective from what I've seen over the last couple of days. Only got to see the match last night and listened to it on the radio which didn't really have much to say about the incident until they got a brief from Sky, and that's when they dived on the back of it because our game was so dire.

Well there was a lot of surmising going on there but I'll take your point although my own views on the matter are somewhat different.

Firstly I don't think Carlos was welcomed back with open arms by Mancini. Mancini would have swapped Carlos for a handful of magic beans in the summer although Eto'o would have done nicely for Mancini. There was conflict between Cook and Mancini over transfer policy with one side wanting as much bucks for Carlos or he stays and Mancini thinking a 30 y/o striker as cover for a player who just wants out would be ideal.

The boards position was understandable from a financial perspective but that is not Mancini's concern and as it turned out the board won out and its now blown up in our faces. Going forward Mancini was never going to risk building a team around a player who wants out and hands in transfer requests just when we get top spot in the PL. Its not worth it and makes no sense and unless you build the team round Tevez and give him preferential treatment having Tevez in the squad will never work. It didn't at Manu when Berbatov came in and Tevez was relegated to bit part player and it won't work here when we brought in Kun.

Tevez is all about him. Which is fine if you build the team round him and pander to his wants and desires. Mancini is no longer willing to do that. The club seems no longer inclined to do it either leaving Tevez just to be part of the squad. No longer Captain. No longer the leader, fans favourite, no longer the man. Tevez hates competition for top dog and can't handle no longer being top dog and being top dog was his consolation for being at a club he doesn't want to be part of.

You can argue that Mancini should have pandered to Tevez and played him despite weight issues, fitness issues or form issues. Or you can argue that Mancini should take the long view and build a team that panders to no one player and has players that do not require the world to pander to them 24/7.

Pick the first option and this thread doesn't exist. Pick the second option and well here we are.

Ahhh, Big Bobby K, thanks for the post, nice one at that but it wasn't me putting some sort of perspective on it, more me putting Carlos' perspective on it. The highlighted bit is probably spot on.

[brite blu sky]

Good to see you haven't lost your marbles then Beefy.

[Kladze]

Fuck me !

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15118581.stm

[Lev Bronstein]

What drivel from Scholes. "Carlos will be thinking I'm City's best player...". Not since Christmas he hasn't.

[phips]

During the break, they may have been told (only surmising) that if we don't improve then there'll be changes, possibly up front. The game gets underway and it gets worse and him and Nige are sent out to get warmed up, which they do with no hassle. Nige is called back over and gets the call for Dzeko (Carlos carries on warming up), rather than Carlos, which leaves Tevez quietly bubbling on the sidelines wondering what is going on (I'm sure most of us were thinking the same at the time although after a few seconds thought we'd probably twigged that he was shoring things up before the attacking change).

The next minute, Mancini barks for Tevez to get warmed up, again, to which Carlos snaps that he is already warmed up and ready to go whilst thinking that Mancini is taking the piss and his frustrations out on him - warm up, sit down, warm up, sit down. Basically saying that he is ready to go and that if Mancini really wants him to play, he'll put him on now with enough time to make a change to the scoreline. Mancini, who as already lost it by this time gets one of the lads to asks the physio (or whoever it was) to intervene and get him warming up, to which Carlos confirmed he was ready. Mancini is not having any of it and makes alternate changes and sits looking at the floor and the rest is history.

This is how I see it went and with the knowledge that he was chatting with the likes of Vieira et al, and after him making his statement, there could be call that this was the course of events. Yes, it was pathetic and childish for Tevez to not get up and do as he had been told, but prior experiences during the season have told him that he's not necessarily going to get on the pitch. And I do reckon that if he was told to get his jacket off, he would've done so without question but to get up and warm-up again to possibly sit down again was just a step to far. He tried to force the issue and it backfired, for all of us.

unfortunately for us, i dont think we will ever know if this ^ happened or if Tevez did refuse. i dont see Mancini coming out and saying that he was wrong (even if in fact he was)..especially after his post game interviews in which he heavily criticized Tevez and basically caused alot more managers and some pundits to come out and criticize Tevez and even call for a worldwide football ban. All of that came from Mancini's statements about Tevez after the Bayern match. So, if it turns out that Beefy's ideas above are in fact right (which is entirely possible), i dont think we will ever get to know because Mancini's reputation will be fully tarnished if it comes out that he laid down such a scathing, personal attack with (apparently) no proof justifying it.

[Foreverinbluedreams]

Proof to justify it Phips from the troll's mouth to Sky after the game

"I didn't think I was in a good situation to come on because my head wasn't in the right place."

Eye witness account from Zaba "Carlos just didn't want to play,"

[david yearsley]

Think Beefy´s perspective is quite plausible, but the incident was a timebomb destined to go off at some stage and it was just unfortunate it was this particularly high profile game. There is clearly rancid bad blood between them but Tevez may have taken Bob´s decision to make him warm up again as an afront to his dignity and he pressed the button. Did Bob do this deliberately to wind him up and keep him in his place? I wouldn´t like to say although I would say that IF the answer to that question is in the affirmative, then it´s a failure to grasp the importance of emotional intelligence in the workplace. That said CT should have been professional and carried out instructions as that´s his job end of. Or of course this was just the gilt edged opportunity that Carlos was waiting for to bring matters to a head. None of us knows what either was thinking but at the end of the day it´s a fuclin piss poor state of affairs. Bob has no choice now but to stick to his guns as the damage is irreparable. As the boss he will have my full support in taking whatever action he sees fit

[Ted Hughes]

He's not fucking wriggling out of this one. Nail the cunt.

[phips]

Proof to justify it Phips from the troll's mouth to Sky after the game

"I didn't think I was in a good situation to come on because my head wasn't in the right place."

Eye witness account from Zaba "Carlos just didn't want to play,"

Well there we go. Good, I'm glad that come out.

Btw, gotta link to that? Id like to read it..been scouring SSN and didnt see that.

[Foreverinbluedreams]

Proof to justify it Phips from the troll's mouth to Sky after the game

"I didn't think I was in a good situation to come on because my head wasn't in the right place."

Eye witness account from Zaba "Carlos just didn't want to play,"

Well there we go. Good, I'm glad that come out.

Btw, gotta link to that? Id like to read it..been scouring SSN and didnt see that.

Not the most reliable of sources i know but Sky were running these quotes on the night. I can't find them on Sky's website

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2914/cha ... e-managers

Zaba's quote is from the Mirror

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Ca ... 05513.html

[Beefymcfc]

I've just seen a bit of footage where Zab's is being blunt with Carlos and Carlos then stands up. He is then called out of shot and sits down straight away looking to give one of those kiddy shrugs as if to say 'who cares then'.

[saulman]

I've just seen a bit of footage where Zab's is being blunt with Carlos and Carlos then stands up. He is then called out of shot and sits down straight away looking to give one of those kiddy shrugs as if to say 'who cares then'.

Linky?

[Beefymcfc]

I've just seen a bit of footage where Zab's is being blunt with Carlos and Carlos then stands up. He is then called out of shot and sits down straight away looking to give one of those kiddy shrugs as if to say 'who cares then'.

Linky?

SSN.

[Dameerto]

That's been shown several times, including during the match - it appears to be just after his refusal to go on - Zabs seems to have been trying to talk him round or giving him an ear full, maybe repeating things in Spanish. Without a timeline though it could be interpreted in several ways.

[beehive's dodgy pint]

Said Tevez to Mancini- "Don't forget I'm very good,
These fans are used to watching Terry Cooke and Willo Flood,
I came here from Utd just to rile that Scottich prick,
Now I'm on the bench with Pablo and it's making me feel sick."

Mancini back to Tevez - "I'm sorry Carlos but I'm going to be blunt,
Quite frankly since you've been here you been acting like a cunt,
I know you bang the goals in and chase across a team's back four,
But I ain't going to put up with your fucking moaning any more."

I've had a word with Khaldoon and he doesn't give a shit,
I'm happy for you to rot in the reserve team for a bit,
Tell that fucking Kia to get out his fancy phone,
And get a Russian team to get you out of here on loan.

You can slag off me and Manchester and wear your bastard snood,
You can miss all of your family to which you constantly alude,
Just get out of my sight you give me pains deep in my belly,
I don't need your fucking circus I've got Kun and Balotelli."

[Hazy2]

I went to Munich and was only aware after the event we had this fucking soap opera developing, I am sure along with many other fans we are now becoming sick of the bad news, I also think we are in danger of beoming a laughing stock, the Last two weeks are like the Swailes transion to Franny Lee era.