What Does Yaya Toure Actually Do?

[Ted Hughes]

The biggest problem with Yaya as I see it is that he simply doesn't do his job defensively if assigned one. If he was playing as one member of a general 5 man midfield, jogging back behind the ball (ish) when we lose it, getting in the occasional tackle, knocking the ball around, making the odd forward run, scoring the occasional goal; he's a top quality player.

Give him any kind of job to do, where he has to cover a specific area, mark someone at a set piece, etc & he will ALWAYS go missing & leave a hole at some point during the game. If we get away with it & are winning comfortably; nothing gets mentioned & his positive contributions are noticed. If we're struggling; his lack of discipline becomes obvious & It's not a case of it happening once in six games, it will definitely happen more than once in any game he's involved in. That causes the team to get edgy in defence if we're under pressure & people get pulled out of position.

[FBlue]

Spot on, Yaya is a "occasional" defensive player as I already said, Wenger told that Yaya wasn't any kind of tackling or hard working midfielder.

Put him in a 3 man midfield, with De Jong for the dirty work and Milner for the engine, and he will show y'all how world class he is. In Barcelona he could play DM because they had 70% of the ball AND they have maybe the best pressure in the history of the game, so Yaya didn't have many defensive duties because 50% of the times the ball was already in the feet of Iniesta/Xavi or the opposition is panicking and throw the ball away.

Sorry to say that, but I think that many people don't figure out what kind of player Yaya is. Being a big black lad capables of mazy run isn't helping. He isn't lazy, the lad proves to all in cup last year that he's a winner and since he arrived, he's one of the most professional player we have. He just doesn't have any super engine in himself and we're playing in a role where he really need one and can't get hide about it.

[Rag_hater]

Has he got something in his contract that states if fit, must play, which boosts his earnings/bonuses? This is the only reason I can see him getting every game.

Somebody on Bluemoon has said that before it was mentioned on here.Is that because there evidennce of such a clause or is it bollox worthy of a Chinners thread.Cos for me without any proof it is just a theory and we all have different ones.For me it also goes to show that once some rumour starts amongst the fans as long as it fits the bill it will spread regardless of how much truth there is.

The biggest problem with Yaya as I see it is that he simply doesn't do his job defensively if assigned one. If he was playing as one member of a general 5 man midfield, jogging back behind the ball (ish) when we lose it, getting in the occasional tackle, knocking the ball around, making the odd forward run, scoring the occasional goal; he's a top quality player.

Give him any kind of job to do, where he has to cover a specific area, mark someone at a set piece, etc & he will ALWAYS go missing & leave a hole at some point during the game. If we get away with it & are winning comfortably; nothing gets mentioned & his positive contributions are noticed. If we're struggling; his lack of discipline becomes obvious & It's not a case of it happening once in six games, it will definitely happen more than once in any game he's involved in. That causes the team to get edgy in defence if we're under pressure & people get pulled out of position.

That's the case every time a goal is scored.A mistake from someone is usually the cause of it.In a match I think it is only natural that a player is going to make a few mistakes,every player does.All this stuff about Yaya strolling around like he din't care is exaggeration IMO.For example in the Bayern game there was an instance when Kolo went forward with the ball made a bad pass and lost it deep in their half.Yaya sprinted back with their player stride for stride and made it difficultr enough that he coukd not get a cross in.The amount of good stuff Yaya does outweighs any bad stuff for me.

[Ted Hughes]

If you are given a job, to mark or block a player at a set piece & you don't even make a decent effort to do so, then that player scores, it's your fault. Yaya Toure has done this on quite a few occasions, including this season for the Spurs & Bolton goals (he was supposed to block Davies' run but didn't bother). We won those games, so it didn't get noticed so much.

He will do it again in a big game & it may cost us. He either needs to do his job, or have that job taken away from him.

[Beefymcfc]

Yaya oozes class, surprisingly it's the same people criticising him who can't admit that Barry is too slow for a two man midfield...no no, he's underrated and those that think he's shit must not understand football, right?

Yaya does ooze class and that's why people criticise him because they want to see it every game. And as you mention, Barry is too slow for a 2 man midfield and needs a more pacier person next to him which Yaya can't supply. With Nige and Yaya there they can cover the field across the 3 with either Yaya or Barry moving forward to help the attack but without Nige they just look, well, one paced or, in Yaya's case, shot.

[brite blu sky]

Give him any kind of job to do, where he has to cover a specific area, mark someone at a set piece, etc & he will ALWAYS go missing & leave a hole at some point during the game. If we get away with it & are winning comfortably; nothing gets mentioned & his positive contributions are noticed. If we're struggling; his lack of discipline becomes obvious & It's not a case of it happening once in six games, it will definitely happen more than once in any game he's involved in. That causes the team to get edgy in defence if we're under pressure & people get pulled out of position.

I'd go a bit further than that in relation to the consequences for the team. City rely on team shape albeit a flexible one that allows players a lot of movement. As Doug points out every report Mancini drills players on positioning over the whole pitch. For all that to work all the players need to have a top awareness of those around. The point being that because there is a system that relies on all the parts being roughly in position, one part going awol or not playing its part can effect not just the players next to them, but the whole stability of the system. Someone has to rush in to try and cover something Yaya is supposed or expected to cover and there will be a hole where that player came from that then needs covering by another player.. or half covering..or... and the confidence breaks.

That kind of system like barca requires all parts perform, always, without fail, no excuses, every minute of the whole game.

I hate to say this but Yaya was a weak link at barca for exactly the reasons we are having a go at him for now. If you care to check before we bought him I was dead set against it believing it would be a mistake to get him because he doesn't pull his weight.

I'd be well happy to be proven wrong though and if anyone can put some fire up his arse then i trust Mancini to be the one.

[failsworthblue]

There is no way he can be classed as a defensive midfield or holding player.

He is to slow and gets overun by most average players who have got a good engine.

If De-Jong or Milner are fit he should get nowhere that role, if anything I would play him in an attacking position instead of Nasri.

He was non-existent against B Munich and if Mancini cannot see that then we aint going to get were we need to be.

[Ted Hughes]

Just watched end of 1st half (goals etc) v Bayern. Bit of play in between the two goals, watching Yaya.

43:11 Jogs into centre of pitch, does 10 yard circle, watches as Bayern player passes & runs past him, doesn't do anything to prevent it.

43:39: Loose ball in midfield from goalkick, well known speed merchant Sweinsteiger beats Yaya to it easily from the same distance & gets pass off well before Yaya arrives. Yaya jogs gently back toward our box & (correctly) pushes Ribery out wide.

Muller(?) crosses, ball deflects loose into our box. Ribery (who is further away) runs past Yaya into our box & collects the ball as Muller also runs into our box from the right: DANGER!!

Yaya stops, bends over & puts hands on knees whilst ball is still in play, in our penalty area, directly in front of him. It's several mins or more since he last made anything resembling a sprint. He is fucked, jogging around a football pitch in ten yard phases.

He is not fit enough.

[Slim]

Just watched end of 1st half (goals etc) v Bayern. Bit of play in between the two goals, watching Yaya.

43:11 Jogs into centre of pitch, does 10 yard circle, watches as Bayern player passes & runs past him, doesn't do anything to prevent it.

43:39: Loose ball in midfield from goalkick, well known speed merchant Sweinsteiger beats Yaya to it easily from the same distance & gets pass off well before Yaya arrives. Yaya jogs gently back toward our box & (correctly) pushes Ribery out wide.

Muller(?) crosses, ball deflects loose into our box. Ribery (who is further away) runs past Yaya into our box & collects the ball as Muller also runs into our box from the right: DANGER!!

Yaya stops, bends over & puts hands on knees whilst ball is still in play, in our penalty area, directly in front of him. It's several mins or more since he last made anything resembling a sprint. He is fucked, jogging around a football pitch in ten yard phases.

He is not fit enough.

At 43:11 the ball was at the back and he was taking up position in the middle, when the ball was played near a player to him, he got inbetween the player and the goal and forced him sideways where Dzeko picked him up and he repositioned where he was supposed to be, that player did a 1-2 with a defender to give it another go, went the other way this time and passed it to the player Clichy was marking, that player was forced back and the passing player moved to the right wing, as Clichy went forward with the player with the ball, Toure dropped into the left back position and got inbetween the player with the ball and the player he was marking.

The next time he was involved he was forcing Ribery wide and Ribery took a chance on a lose ball...who the hell on our team could keep up with Ribery on a random sprint? And the only reason it became DANGER was because Kompany slipped otherwise the ball was cleared and Toure was not in any way supposed to be involved that far back.

I realise from this little post of yours that you really don't like him, and that's fine. But you are moving away from frank and honest appraisal and moving into the Piccs/Petrov vicinity.

[Chinners]

Yaya would walk into the first XI of any Premiership team. Anyone who disagrees is on acid. The man is a Rolls Royce.

Acid obviously ain't as good as it used to be . . .

[Ted Hughes]

Just watched end of 1st half (goals etc) v Bayern. Bit of play in between the two goals, watching Yaya.

43:11 Jogs into centre of pitch, does 10 yard circle, watches as Bayern player passes & runs past him, doesn't do anything to prevent it.

43:39: Loose ball in midfield from goalkick, well known speed merchant Sweinsteiger beats Yaya to it easily from the same distance & gets pass off well before Yaya arrives. Yaya jogs gently back toward our box & (correctly) pushes Ribery out wide.

Muller(?) crosses, ball deflects loose into our box. Ribery (who is further away) runs past Yaya into our box & collects the ball as Muller also runs into our box from the right: DANGER!!

Yaya stops, bends over & puts hands on knees whilst ball is still in play, in our penalty area, directly in front of him. It's several mins or more since he last made anything resembling a sprint. He is fucked, jogging around a football pitch in ten yard phases.

He is not fit enough.

At 43:11 the ball was at the back and he was taking up position in the middle, when the ball was played near a player to him, he got inbetween the player and the goal and forced him sideways where Dzeko picked him up and he repositioned where he was supposed to be, that player did a 1-2 with a defender to give it another go, went the other way this time and passed it to the player Clichy was marking, that player was forced back and the passing player moved to the right wing, as Clichy went forward with the player with the ball, Toure dropped into the left back position and got inbetween the player with the ball and the player he was marking.

The next time he was involved he was forcing Ribery wide and Ribery took a chance on a lose ball...who the hell on our team could keep up with Ribery on a random sprint? And the only reason it became DANGER was because Kompany slipped otherwise the ball was cleared and Toure was not in any way supposed to be involved that far back.

I realise from this little post of yours that you really don't like him, and that's fine. But you are moving away from frank and honest appraisal and moving into the Piccs/Petrov vicinity.

I do actually like him. I've said, possibly even in this thread, I think he's a top player but not as a defensive midfielder, he's not fit enough & goes missing at some point in every game.

Btw, Ribery took a chance on a fucking loose ball? What, it was some kind of thing only he could see? It's fucking obvious there's a danger area. It's exactly the kind of thing defensive midfielders are supposed to spot & do something about. He was absolutely shite at it.

The way you've excused him making no effort to get into his own penalty area is quite frankly ridiculous. What if Ribery, instead of running head 1st into VK, had just dropped the ball back like Silva does ? Just because you're not sharp enough to spot that possibility doesn't mean Ribery would definitely miss it. The other guy would then have an easy shot on simply because Yaya Toure couldn't run ten yards to try & stop him. You don't stand about with your hands on your fucking knees & go 'DOH' after it happens, you stick your body in there just in case. Your kind of thinking is the difference between winners & losers.

Also, how could you possibly omit the fact that he was bent over, with his hands on his knees at that moment & then say my version of events is biased ? If you think that's acceptable, can you tell me which other player you've seen doing the same recently, for City or anyone else? There are 3 types of player that bend over double like that: semi pros in extra time, ones who are ill & about to throw up & Yaya Toure.

He's not fit enough to do the job asked of him. That was my point & that incident proves it.

[brite blu sky]

Regardless of the details of the actual timings on respective vids you two have watched; the point still stands that Yaya could and should have been doing more to relieve pressure or try and nip in the bud attacks by opposition both at Bayern and other games. You simply cannot deny this and it won't have gone unnoticed by Bob and his staff. If Yaya is going to play that position he needs to be fitter as Ted suggests or he needs to sit and read the game like Hamman and the like used to do. He can't do both - as in wander forward.

I only ever saw him play 3 times for Marseille so am not sure about his effect there, but for barca he often struggled playing the defensive mid. By struggle I mean not look sharp enough. He was always at his best when playing alongside someone who would be the rearguard and he could play just in front and be a link player.

2 other points. One is that he seems to start the season slow and get up to speed eventually. Is that just fitness ?
Second I rekon Mancini felt he was the best option due to injuries and so has played him, but I'd be sure that they have clocked this about Yaya and will address it properly. ( i fuclin hope so anyway as he is going to be a liability if not ).

[The Original Special One]

Its got to the stage where I'm looking for us to consider every possible alternative; for example Zabaleta
Or Savic?
Or maybe re-jigging the shape of the team to somehow fit James Milner in, who's come on a ton this season, even if he's not a defensive midfielder and it would take him a while to 'unlearn' his natural instincts, despite his willingness and honesty.

The problem is, I think, that Mancini has invested too much of his reputation in Ya Ya: two other players that he's been keen on for years are Silva and Nasri. Obviously Silva has paid him back in bucketloads; hopefully Nasri will, also, although I think he'll probably frustrate us a lot before he does

[Ted Hughes]

There are plenty of midfield players who struggle to do the kind of job Yaya Toure is being asked to do. Imo, the only PL side to play 2 there in big games & look solid were the rags with K***e & In**. Even they got turned over if one of those had an off day.

[bigblue]

Its got to the stage where I'm looking for us to consider every possible alternative; for example Zabaleta
Or Savic?
Or maybe re-jigging the shape of the team to somehow fit James Milner in, who's come on a ton this season, even if he's not a defensive midfielder and it would take him a while to 'unlearn' his natural instincts, despite his willingness and honesty.

The problem is, I think, that Mancini has invested too much of his reputation in Ya Ya: two other players that he's been keen on for years are Silva and Nasri. Obviously Silva has paid him back in bucketloads; hopefully Nasri will, also, although I think he'll probably frustrate us a lot before he does

we're joint top of the league FFS. Not the time to be messing around with stuff, just enjoy it and the players will gel together even more. And yeah, what has Mancini gotten out of Yaya besides an FA Cup win and qualifying for the Champs league. We've had the best start to the season since 77/78 and people are still whinging left and right

[Beefymcfc]

Yaya is quality, Fact.

[aaron bond]

Its got to the stage where I'm looking for us to consider every possible alternative; for example Zabaleta
Or Savic?
Or maybe re-jigging the shape of the team to somehow fit James Milner in, who's come on a ton this season, even if he's not a defensive midfielder and it would take him a while to 'unlearn' his natural instincts, despite his willingness and honesty.

The problem is, I think, that Mancini has invested too much of his reputation in Ya Ya: two other players that he's been keen on for years are Silva and Nasri. Obviously Silva has paid him back in bucketloads; hopefully Nasri will, also, although I think he'll probably frustrate us a lot before he does

we're joint top of the league FFS. Not the time to be messing around with stuff, just enjoy it and the players will gel together even more. And yeah, what has Mancini gotten out of Yaya besides an FA Cup win and qualifying for the Champs league. We've had the best start to the season since 77/78 and people are still whinging left and right

Everyone is happy I'm sure, but at the same time, if someone is not playing well then we're allowed to say that, regardless of where we are in the league. Yaya has been pretty poor this season. We're at the top of the league because Hart, Silva, Dzeko, Aguero, Richards, Clichy, to name a few have been on the whole excellent. Yaya has the ability, he showed that on occasions last season. But too many games just pass him by and that's not good enough for the team we want to be.

[Beefymcfc]

Yaya's shit!

[bigblue]

Its got to the stage where I'm looking for us to consider every possible alternative; for example Zabaleta
Or Savic?
Or maybe re-jigging the shape of the team to somehow fit James Milner in, who's come on a ton this season, even if he's not a defensive midfielder and it would take him a while to 'unlearn' his natural instincts, despite his willingness and honesty.

The problem is, I think, that Mancini has invested too much of his reputation in Ya Ya: two other players that he's been keen on for years are Silva and Nasri. Obviously Silva has paid him back in bucketloads; hopefully Nasri will, also, although I think he'll probably frustrate us a lot before he does

we're joint top of the league FFS. Not the time to be messing around with stuff, just enjoy it and the players will gel together even more. And yeah, what has Mancini gotten out of Yaya besides an FA Cup win and qualifying for the Champs league. We've had the best start to the season since 77/78 and people are still whinging left and right

Everyone is happy I'm sure, but at the same time, if someone is not playing well then we're allowed to say that, regardless of where we are in the league. Yaya has been pretty poor this season. We're at the top of the league because Hart, Silva, Dzeko, Aguero, Richards, Clichy, to name a few have been on the whole excellent. Yaya has the ability, he showed that on occasions last season. But too many games just pass him by and that's not good enough for the team we want to be.

I think this widely held view that Yaya slacks off affects people's perception when they watch the game. He was great today. As Platt said, Yaya had tons of time on the ball but our players around him weren't in the right position or making the right runs. We win or lose as a team and there is too much singling out of individual players.

I've said it before a few pages back and I'll say it again: the fact that this thread is 11 pages long and hasn't turned sarcastic is a disgrace to this board and makes everyone here look like ungrateful idiots. Questioning what a world class player does reminds me of the same level of thought as this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3axNms17wak#t=4m30s

[aaron bond]

Its got to the stage where I'm looking for us to consider every possible alternative; for example Zabaleta
Or Savic?
Or maybe re-jigging the shape of the team to somehow fit James Milner in, who's come on a ton this season, even if he's not a defensive midfielder and it would take him a while to 'unlearn' his natural instincts, despite his willingness and honesty.

The problem is, I think, that Mancini has invested too much of his reputation in Ya Ya: two other players that he's been keen on for years are Silva and Nasri. Obviously Silva has paid him back in bucketloads; hopefully Nasri will, also, although I think he'll probably frustrate us a lot before he does

we're joint top of the league FFS. Not the time to be messing around with stuff, just enjoy it and the players will gel together even more. And yeah, what has Mancini gotten out of Yaya besides an FA Cup win and qualifying for the Champs league. We've had the best start to the season since 77/78 and people are still whinging left and right

Everyone is happy I'm sure, but at the same time, if someone is not playing well then we're allowed to say that, regardless of where we are in the league. Yaya has been pretty poor this season. We're at the top of the league because Hart, Silva, Dzeko, Aguero, Richards, Clichy, to name a few have been on the whole excellent. Yaya has the ability, he showed that on occasions last season. But too many games just pass him by and that's not good enough for the team we want to be.

I think this widely held view that Yaya slacks off affects people's perception when they watch the game. He was great today. As Platt said, Yaya had tons of time on the ball but our players around him weren't in the right position or making the right runs. We win or lose as a team and there is too much singling out of individual players.

I've said it before a few pages back and I'll say it again: the fact that this thread is 11 pages long and hasn't turned sarcastic is a disgrace to this board and makes everyone here look like ungrateful idiots. Questioning what a world class player does reminds me of the same level of thought as this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3axNms17wak#t=4m30s

Well there's your problem right there...in my opinion, and others' on here it seems, he's not a world class player. World class = Messi, Ronaldo, Ribery, Silva etc.

Are you telling me Yaya fits into that group of players? He doesn't. People use the term 'world class' far too freely.

And what do you mean by 'this widely held view that Yaya slacks off affects people's perception when they watch the game' - it's not a perception, he actually does slack off and that does influence my opinion of him as players at that level shouldn't perform so half-heartedly so often. I'll admit, I thought Yaya had a decent game against Blackburn, and I hope he can improve moving forward. But please don't make out that Yaya is immune to criticism because he's 'world class', because he most definitely isn't 'world class'. People who say that just look like idiots.