***Official: Blackburn v City Match Thread***

[mcfc1632]

I know that this will seem a bit of a strange comment following a 4 - 0 win, but watching from the stands yesterday I had a recurring thought coming to me about a problem that I have been seeing since the Napoli game

Whilst we have so many players happy to be in possession and thereby we get a lot of possession - what we seem to lack (alarmingly given some of the individuals in our team) are players that will 'break the line' of the opposition.

We move forward - we probe, but when there is no obvious killer ball to lay-in we then move backwards or sideways - nobody actually seems to ever attempt to go past a player.

I know we try and get width through the FBs and we try and free them up - but that is with breaks from MF with a ball placed for them to run onto if they are in space - we do not have people 'dribbling' and going past opponents - even Aguerro does not attempt this as much as he seemed to do when with AM.

This for me as seen us (since Napoli) retain the ball but not penetrate very much and if you get a solid '2 banks of 4' then I would worry that we can be nullified - of course once we score a first goal others are likely to follow

I thought with Johnson starting yesterday we would see him taking people on one to one - but again this did not happen - when he was faced directly with a defender he seemed to play back or sideways

Am I having senior moments ? or has anyone else noticed this?

If I look at the scum - their MF is shite compared to ours but they do have a number of players that will cause openings by attacking players and pulling teams out of position - just think that we need to encourage some of our players to take defenders on

[dazby]

Agreed. I also think AJ made a lot of unrewarded runs ie made the run and called for the ball but didn't receive.

[Mark (Blue Army)]

Agreed. I also think AJ made a lot of unrewarded runs ie made the run and called for the ball but didn't receive.

Yeah your right I watched the game again and he was making some great runs but nobody seemed to want to pass to him.

[Duckman]

We played well and a win was never ever in doubt....special praise for Kolorov who had an excellent game..

Blackburn were fucking dire.

That HAS to be sarcasm.

right, his name is kolarov.

[Beefymcfc]

I know that this will seem a bit of a strange comment following a 4 - 0 win, but watching from the stands yesterday I had a recurring thought coming to me about a problem that I have been seeing since the Napoli game

Whilst we have so many players happy to be in possession and thereby we get a lot of possession - what we seem to lack (ararmingly given some of the individuals in our team) are players that will 'break the line' of the opposition.

We move forward - we probe, but when there is no obvious killer ball to lay-in we then move backwards or sideways - nobody actually seems to ever attempt to go past a player.

I know we try and get width through the FBs and we try and free them up - but that is with breaks from MF with a ball placed for them to run onto if they are in space - we do not have people 'dribbling' and going past opponents - even Aguerro does not attempt this as much as he seemed to do when with AM.

This for me as seen us (since Napoli) retain the ball but not penetrate very much and if you get a solid '2 banks of 4' then I would worry that we can be nullified - of course once we score a first goal others are likely to follow

I thought with Johnson starting yesterday we would see him taking people on one to one - but again this did not happen - when he was faced directly with a defender he seemed to play back or sideways

Am I having senior moments ? or has anyone else noticed this?

If I look at the scum - their MF is shite compared to ours but they do have a number of players that will cause openings by attacking players and pulling teams out of position - just think that we need to encourage some of our players to take defenders on

You are obviously always going to have those senior moments, that's waht happens when you get old! By-the-by, this is the nature of our game mate, controlled, possession based football. What makes it worse is that a lot of the teams we have come up against so far have mainly stuck 2 banks of defenders in front of us making near impossible to push through as you may get past the 1st man but not the 2nd/3rd/4th etc. This is also where I feel this type of play doesn't suit Dzeko who likes to be facing goal and seeing defenders on the back foot. Take the Spurs game, a little more room at the back with Nasri et al going past players and putting the ball in.

I've no worries though, the team will be set up and play the way it suits per game and so far it has proved right and we'll soon see if we can mix it up when we go away to United near the end of the month; the Villa game may be a bit more open as well.

[Rag_hater]

I know that this will seem a bit of a strange comment following a 4 - 0 win, but watching from the stands yesterday I had a recurring thought coming to me about a problem that I have been seeing since the Napoli game

Whilst we have so many players happy to be in possession and thereby we get a lot of possession - what we seem to lack (ararmingly given some of the individuals in our team) are players that will 'break the line' of the opposition.

We move forward - we probe, but when there is no obvious killer ball to lay-in we then move backwards or sideways - nobody actually seems to ever attempt to go past a player.

I know we try and get width through the FBs and we try and free them up - but that is with breaks from MF with a ball placed for them to run onto if they are in space - we do not have people 'dribbling' and going past opponents - even Aguerro does not attempt this as much as he seemed to do when with AM.

This for me as seen us (since Napoli) retain the ball but not penetrate very much and if you get a solid '2 banks of 4' then I would worry that we can be nullified - of course once we score a first goal others are likely to follow

I thought with Johnson starting yesterday we would see him taking people on one to one - but again this did not happen - when he was faced directly with a defender he seemed to play back or sideways

Am I having senior moments ? or has anyone else noticed this?

If I look at the scum - their MF is shite compared to ours but they do have a number of players that will cause openings by attacking players and pulling teams out of position - just think that we need to encourage some of our players to take defenders on

Think we do have players like that

Sergio does it,
Adam,
Milner I think and Yaya and David a little bit.
I think since Robbie left we have had nobody as good as him at doing it but nontheless we do have imo players that do it.

[Ted Hughes]

I know that this will seem a bit of a strange comment following a 4 - 0 win, but watching from the stands yesterday I had a recurring thought coming to me about a problem that I have been seeing since the Napoli game

Whilst we have so many players happy to be in possession and thereby we get a lot of possession - what we seem to lack (ararmingly given some of the individuals in our team) are players that will 'break the line' of the opposition.

We move forward - we probe, but when there is no obvious killer ball to lay-in we then move backwards or sideways - nobody actually seems to ever attempt to go past a player.

I know we try and get width through the FBs and we try and free them up - but that is with breaks from MF with a ball placed for them to run onto if they are in space - we do not have people 'dribbling' and going past opponents - even Aguerro does not attempt this as much as he seemed to do when with AM.

This for me as seen us (since Napoli) retain the ball but not penetrate very much and if you get a solid '2 banks of 4' then I would worry that we can be nullified - of course once we score a first goal others are likely to follow

I thought with Johnson starting yesterday we would see him taking people on one to one - but again this did not happen - when he was faced directly with a defender he seemed to play back or sideways

Am I having senior moments ? or has anyone else noticed this?

If I look at the scum - their MF is shite compared to ours but they do have a number of players that will cause openings by attacking players and pulling teams out of position - just think that we need to encourage some of our players to take defenders on

You are obviously always going to have those senior moments, that's waht happens when you get old! By-the-by, this is the nature of our game mate, controlled, possession based football. What makes it worse is that a lot of the teams we have come up against so far have mainly stuck 2 banks of defenders in front of us making near impossible to push through as you may get past the 1st man but not the 2nd/3rd/4th etc. This is also where I feel this type of play doesn't suit Dzeko who likes to be facing goal and seeing defenders on the back foot. Take the Spurs game, a little more room at the back with Nasri et al going past players and putting the ball in.

I've no worries though, the team will be set up and play the way it suits per game and so far it has proved right and we'll soon see if we can mix it up when we go away to United near the end of the month; the Villa game may be a bit more open as well.

I agree with mcfc1632 100%. I've thought exactly the same thing even down to the 'break the line' rugby comparison. For all the fantastic football we're playing, a Tueart or Barnes would have caused Napoli & Bayern more problems than most of our attack did. Unfortunately, so would Giggs or Nani. In our team, it's tending to be mainly the fullbacks who do it. On the occasions when Nasri or Silva do it, we either score or at least create a chance but we either tend to do it too deep or miss the opportunity by moving the ball two slowly when gaps appear to run into; they're shut again before we move.

We could double the number of such opportunities if we get into a groove of doing it & if we do, we'll win stuff as the crosses etc will also come. We should always be looking to improve no matter how good the results & this is a big area imo.

[Chinners]

If you read this thread and then re-read the Bayern match thread ... there are some lovely moments of irony. If I can be arsed later I might do a thread on it.

[Ted Hughes]

If you read this thread and then re-read the Bayern match thread ... there are some lovely moments of irony. If I can be arsed later I might do a thread on it.

V Bayern, they could have played 6 defenders & all stood in a line on the edge of our box & I'd've been happy. A draw would have been a great result.

[Beefymcfc]

If you read this thread and then re-read the Bayern match thread ... there are some lovely moments of irony. If I can be arsed later I might do a thread on it.

Names, we need names ;-)

[mcfc1632]

I agree with mcfc1632 100%. I've thought exactly the same thing even down to the 'break the line' rugby comparison. For all the fantastic football we're playing, a Tueart or Barnes would have caused Napoli & Bayern more problems than most of our attack did. Unfortunately, so would Giggs or Nani. In our team, it's tending to be mainly the fullbacks who do it. On the occasions when Nasri or Silva do it, we either score or at least create a chance but we either tend to do it too deep or miss the opportunity by moving the ball two slowly when gaps appear to run into; they're shut again before we move.

We could double the number of such opportunities if we get into a groove of doing it & if we do, we'll win stuff as the crosses etc will also come. We should always be looking to improve no matter how good the results & this is a big area imo.

I had the little twat from the swamp in mind when I was thinking about it............

Our MF is far superior but to 'break the line' we seem to (almost) always do it with a pass and (generally) never do it with a player taking the defender on.

So if you get the 2 banks of 4 you allow them to 'hold position' and you are dependent on that killer pass. I would obviously like to see us (generally) keep playing this way as we have some top players in finding such a pass - but I am hoping that we mix it, i.e. if a player is not seeing the pass then try to beat the defender rather than (always) passing backwards / sideways - retaining possession but being a bit predictable. You mention Nani/Giggs - they do cause disturbance in the defenders and how they are set up by doing unpredictable things

Just a question of balance.

People mentioned how well we started against BM but I also thought we had this problem in that period - and I worry that defences might start to 'suss us out' if we do not have the ability to vary the approach

I did say in my earlier post that it might seem a strange comment after a 4 - 0 away win - but I think the 'rugby - break the line' comparison holds - you can do it with a great pass/kick - or if it is not on you can make a run and create panic

[Ted Hughes]

I agree with mcfc1632 100%. I've thought exactly the same thing even down to the 'break the line' rugby comparison. For all the fantastic football we're playing, a Tueart or Barnes would have caused Napoli & Bayern more problems than most of our attack did. Unfortunately, so would Giggs or Nani. In our team, it's tending to be mainly the fullbacks who do it. On the occasions when Nasri or Silva do it, we either score or at least create a chance but we either tend to do it too deep or miss the opportunity by moving the ball two slowly when gaps appear to run into; they're shut again before we move.

We could double the number of such opportunities if we get into a groove of doing it & if we do, we'll win stuff as the crosses etc will also come. We should always be looking to improve no matter how good the results & this is a big area imo.

I had the little twat from the swamp in mind when I was thinking about it............

Our MF is far superior but to 'break the line' we seem to (almost) always do it with a pass and (generally) never to it with a player taking it on.

So if you get the 2 banks of 4 you allow them to 'hold position' and you are dependent on that killer pass. I would obviously like to see us (generally) keep playing this way as we have some top players in finding such a pass - but I am hoping that we mix it, i.e. if a player is not seeing the pass then try to beat the defender rather than (always) pass backwards / sideways - retaining possession but being a bit predictable - you mention Nani/Giggs - they do cause disturbance in the defenders and how they are set up by doing unpredictable things

Just a question of balance.

People mentioned how well we started against BM but I also thought we had this problem in that period

Almost every time a team defends solidly v Barca, it's Messi who causes it to break down. Sometimes he just runs at the centre & loses the ball, but there are 3 players coming in to win the loose ball & give it straight back to him so he does it again. That pressure leads to the defnce being pulled out of position worrying about him for the forseeable future & huge gaps appearing elsewhere, like v the rags. Sometimes of course he just runs straight through! Other times he wins a free kick & they score that.

When we do attempt that, it will usually be just one player having a go on his own, without the kind of backup Messi gets, so if the player is tackled, rather than us regaining possession, the other side brings the ball out & we all groan & swear a bit under our breath saying the player was greedy (which he was). If we had the conviction to follow him up, win back the ball & try to break the line however, he wouldn't be greedy he'd be dangerous. We have players who can do this, so long as we work together.

[mcfc1632]

I know that this will seem a bit of a strange comment following a 4 - 0 win, but watching from the stands yesterday I had a recurring thought coming to me about a problem that I have been seeing since the Napoli game

Whilst we have so many players happy to be in possession and thereby we get a lot of possession - what we seem to lack (ararmingly given some of the individuals in our team) are players that will 'break the line' of the opposition.

We move forward - we probe, but when there is no obvious killer ball to lay-in we then move backwards or sideways - nobody actually seems to ever attempt to go past a player.

I know we try and get width through the FBs and we try and free them up - but that is with breaks from MF with a ball placed for them to run onto if they are in space - we do not have people 'dribbling' and going past opponents - even Aguerro does not attempt this as much as he seemed to do when with AM.

This for me as seen us (since Napoli) retain the ball but not penetrate very much and if you get a solid '2 banks of 4' then I would worry that we can be nullified - of course once we score a first goal others are likely to follow

I thought with Johnson starting yesterday we would see him taking people on one to one - but again this did not happen - when he was faced directly with a defender he seemed to play back or sideways

Am I having senior moments ? or has anyone else noticed this?

If I look at the scum - their MF is shite compared to ours but they do have a number of players that will cause openings by attacking players and pulling teams out of position - just think that we need to encourage some of our players to take defenders on

Think we do have players like that

Sergio does it,
Adam,
Milner I think and Yaya and David a little bit.
I think since Robbie left we have had nobody as good as him at doing it but nontheless we do have imo players that do it.

I have a slightly different view RH..........

Sergio can do it - but has not been 'attempting' it in recent games

Adam, - used to do it but recently either a) he makes a good run only to see the ball not passed, or b) he gets the ball with 1 (or 2) defenders in attendance and he passes backwards or sideways rather than look to go past - he seems (IMO) to have lost some confidence?

Milner - same as AJ for me - he does not seem to be able to get past defenders - seems to more take the ball wide and then pass it back or to the FB on the line

Yaya - does do it through sheer pace and power and you see his bulldozing runs cause havoc - just needs to be more frequently and copied by others

David - does it - but slightly differently. Mainly to find himself the space to find the killer ball. He does this so well that he attracts 2 or 3 defenders to him leaving space for the pass - for me he never has to change!!!

Nasri - for me should be a blend of the David and Ya Ya approaches

[mcfc1632]

Almost every time a team defends solidly v Barca, it's Messi who causes it to break down. Sometimes he just runs at the centre & loses the ball, but there are 3 players coming in to win the loose ball & give it straight back to him so he does it again. That pressure leads to the defnce being pulled out of position worrying about him for the forseeable future & huge gaps appearing elsewhere, like v the rags. Sometimes of course he just runs straight through! Other times he wins a free kick & they score that.

When we do attempt that, it will usually be just one player having a go on his own, without the kind of backup Messi gets, so if the player is tackled, rather than us regaining possession, the other side brings the ball out & we all groan & swear a bit under our breath saying the player was greedy (which he was). If we had the conviction to follow him up, win back the ball & try to break the line however, he wouldn't be greedy he'd be dangerous. We have players who can do this, so long as we work together.

ah - thanks this explains it in much better terms - really brings to life what I am thinking.............

I know I am likely going too far with the rugby comparison, but if you consider the Messi/et al approach a sort of 'rolling maul' causing havoc as they go through the middle (or out wide) supported by team-mates then the compaison (sort of) holds with all sorts of opportunities presenting themsleves - out wide or through the centre as opponents get pulled out of position. If we had Ya, Ya, Nasri, David (or even Milner/Barry) attempting such an approach then I think that we would cause some real (even more) problems

[Beefymcfc]

I think some people are just being knit-picky now. 7 wins and 1 draw in the league so far with how any goals scored, is this something we should be questioning?

CL is different and Mancini admitted he got it wrong. We could have been a couple up if the ref hadn't been under instruction and the problems came from changing a winning CB pairing. After that, well, it's all just a blur. This is what should be questioned if anything and seems to have been put to bed due to the incident during the game.

[Ted Hughes]

Almost every time a team defends solidly v Barca, it's Messi who causes it to break down. Sometimes he just runs at the centre & loses the ball, but there are 3 players coming in to win the loose ball & give it straight back to him so he does it again. That pressure leads to the defnce being pulled out of position worrying about him for the forseeable future & huge gaps appearing elsewhere, like v the rags. Sometimes of course he just runs straight through! Other times he wins a free kick & they score that.

When we do attempt that, it will usually be just one player having a go on his own, without the kind of backup Messi gets, so if the player is tackled, rather than us regaining possession, the other side brings the ball out & we all groan & swear a bit under our breath saying the player was greedy (which he was). If we had the conviction to follow him up, win back the ball & try to break the line however, he wouldn't be greedy he'd be dangerous. We have players who can do this, so long as we work together.

ah - thanks this explains it in much better terms - really brings to life what I am thinking.............

I know I am likely going too far with the rugby comparison, but if you consider the Messi/et al approach a sort of 'rolling maul' causing havoc as they go through the middle (or out wide) supported by team-mates then the compaison (sort of) holds with all sorts of opportunities presenting themsleves - out wide or through the centre as opponents get pulled out of position. If we had Ya, Ya, Nasri, David (or even Milner/Barry) attempting such an approach then I think that we would cause some real (even more) problems

I think this is spot on. It has to be done with real conviction & purpose rather than the often uncertain way we attempt it. To a lesser & more direct ( not as high quality) extent it's what the rags also do sometimes; attract the defenders in to Rooney & Co all pushing trying to pile through the centre, creating a central battle attracting defenders jumping in to stop them, loose ball bounces out , midfield smacks it over to Giggs out wide, 1st time ball back in before the defence is set, Rooney & Co attack the box already expecting it; 1-0. We must have seen several hundred goals like that from them since the Prem Lg started.

[Ted Hughes]

I think some people are just being knit-picky now. 7 wins and 1 draw in the league so far with how any goals scored, is this something we should be questioning?

CL is different and Mancini admitted he got it wrong. We could have been a couple up if the ref hadn't been under instruction and the problems came from changing a winning CB pairing. After that, well, it's all just a blur. This is what should be questioned if anything and seems to have been put to bed due to the incident during the game.

Absloutely yes we should question it. We are nowhere near as good as we can be yet. Not even close.

[Kladze]

To put it in a nutshell (I think) it's vital that, as teams do start to work us out, we find ways of making defenders do what they least like doing and that is turning to face their own goal (followed by, likely, having to turn again).

That can be achieved by the ways suggested above, or getting cut back crosses in, or balls over the top from deeper positions for outright pace to (try to) take advantage of.

It actually doesn't matter THAT much if any of those methods succeed in any single event, so long as we swamp the forward area to regain possession to then carry on as normal.

The important thing is that our opponents can never be 100% certain of their defensive options/tactics.

[mcfc1632]

I think some people are just being knit-picky now. 7 wins and 1 draw in the league so far with how any goals scored, is this something we should be questioning?

CL is different and Mancini admitted he got it wrong. We could have been a couple up if the ref hadn't been under instruction and the problems came from changing a winning CB pairing. After that, well, it's all just a blur. This is what should be questioned if anything and seems to have been put to bed due to the incident during the game.

Beefy - but there is a difference between raising some thoughts and 'questioning' and 'criticising'............

Hopefully what I have brought up is more of a musing to add to what we have and my comments are certainly not meant to come across as criticism. I just thought that I am seeing a theme that could become a flaw costing points in the future - it is all about having the ability to vary approach to break through if your preferred approach is not getting there

In that (extremely hot and sweaty) crowd there were lots of people starting to get concerned that 'lowly' Blackburn might just hold out for the 0 - 0 that they were obviously set up for - and in the end it took a moment of brilliance from AJ to break through. Those sort of shots from outside box do not often go in - but special thanks from me as before the match I put a tenner on him to be 1st goal-scorer at 10/1 - but if Blackburn had been able hold out for a little while longer it would have been very tense in this thread I guess

I am not seeking to detract from our good win, just raise a topic for discussion / attract views.

[Ted Hughes]

Apart from a winger who can cross expertly, we have almost every kind of attacking option, so in theory we are capable of every type of attacking play from Barca, through rags to Everton & Stoke. Ideally we become brilliant at all of them.