The Barry/AJ substitution

[bernabias_right_boot]

Whether it had worked ( as I think it did) or not it was good to see a decisive move.

Simply put, but says it all!

[DoomMerchant]

If we got a good offer at Xmas and had a higher quality replacement lined up I'd get rid of AJ at the drop of a hat.

Believes his own hype at the blink of an eye, drifts in and (more accurately) out of games with alarming frequency and just does not consistently offer enough.

Don't know who I'd replace him with but I honestly really do not rate him....he's not a kid and he's been here long enough to bed in and what he offers is not good enough

so good you had to say it twice!

i still contend, all sarcasm aside, that if Scouse Filth paid what they did for Downing we should have considered shipping them Johnson for 5-8M more than they paid for Downing. Sure, we don't need the money, etc...but if we have players who aren't really going to be long-term players at his age we ought to maximize what we can get for them and move someone else in in their stead.

I love those breathtaking goals Jinky pulls out of his bottom a couple times a season, but he doesn't seem to have the stuff that Mancini wants, and it's pretty obvious by now, isn't it?

he'll get some games, but he'll eventually agitate for a move...i don't think he'll be here next season.

cheers

[brite blu sky]

AJ aside I think one of the main things last night shows to us is that Mancini needs time to get to know more about the new players yet.

There was zero wrong with Bob's initial set up, AJ actually was doing ok.. no worse i would point out than other players with more responsibility. Mancini wasn't to know that Silva would be out of sorts or that Nige would also be off the pace. I would argue that these two factors are what did it for AJ. It was a fairly obvious move tbh to bring on someone to shore up the space in front of DeJong going forward and to help him defensively. That leads to Nasri.. and that's why i say Bob still needs time to get to know him. To be fair he did try in the first half to take up the slack from Silva but City are always looking for SIlva so there is another issue there. Two or three out of sorts key players left the rest mullered imo. Barry has his own gravity and was the perfect substitution in that situation, if that doesn't quell the doubters as to what Barry brings to the team nothing will.

If Nasri wasn't new and needed to be played to find his feet in the team basically, then i think he would have been the one pulled for Barry. It isn't so much the price tag thing, that is facile thinking tbh, it is the fact that new players have to be given time to suss out their role, they have to be played until they work through the adjustment period, dropping or subbing them is not a smart move for the longer term, so you have to just grin and bear it. Mancini has done that consistently with players brought in and it pays off.

Just a note too about Mancini being seen as a lucky manager... I wonder if that had anything to do with his substitutions creating that 'luck'. So far this season his subs have significantly changed games, won them, saved them or killed them off. Is that all coincidence?

[mr_nool]

AJ aside I think one of the main things last night shows to us is that Mancini needs time to get to know more about the new players yet.

There was zero wrong with Bob's initial set up, AJ actually was doing ok.. no worse i would point out than other players with more responsibility. Mancini wasn't to know that Silva would be out of sorts or that Nige would also be off the pace. I would argue that these two factors are what did it for AJ. It was a fairly obvious move tbh to bring on someone to shore up the space in front of DeJong going forward and to help him defensively. That leads to Nasri.. and that's why i say Bob still needs time to get to know him. To be fair he did try in the first half to take up the slack from Silva but City are always looking for SIlva so there is another issue there. Two or three out of sorts key players left the rest mullered imo. Barry has his own gravity and was the perfect substitution in that situation, if that doesn't quell the doubters as to what Barry brings to the team nothing will.

If Nasri wasn't new and needed to be played to find his feet in the team basically, then i think he would have been the one pulled for Barry. It isn't so much the price tag thing, that is facile thinking tbh, it is the fact that new players have to be given time to suss out their role, they have to be played until they work through the adjustment period, dropping or subbing them is not a smart move for the longer term, so you have to just grin and bear it. Mancini has done that consistently with players brought in and it pays off.

Just a note too about Mancini being seen as a lucky manager... I wonder if that had anything to do with his substitutions creating that 'luck'. So far this season his subs have significantly changed games, won them, saved them or killed them off. Is that all coincidence?

Great post mate! I totally agree. Didn't think AJ was worse than any one else, he was just a tactical sacrifice.

[Mikhail Chigorin]

If we got a good offer at Xmas and had a higher quality replacement lined up I'd get rid of AJ at the drop of a hat.

Believes his own hype at the blink of an eye, drifts in and (more accurately) out of games with alarming frequency and just does not consistently offer enough.

Don't know who I'd replace him with but I honestly really do not rate him....he's not a kid and he's been here long enough to bed in and what he offers is not good enough

Junior Hoilett. That is all

He will go for Di Maria at RM

Nice call.

[aaron bond]

2 goals in 3 games adam johnson is not good enough. hilarious. he's a top player!

AJ isn't a top player though. His performances have generally been poor for a very long time. Against Blackburn he did score a great goal but in the rest of the game he was abysmal and I would say we would have had a better chance of scoring earlier on if he didn't play. Against Villa he did have a good game, his best in a long while (although Mancini didn't seem too impressed afterwards), but he needs to keep that up and demonstrate it consistently. He wasn't performing any worse than the rest of the team last night but as he's been poor for most of the last year, it makes him the first choice if Mancini wants to make a change.

AJ had a great start to his City career but it has tailed off. He needs to knuckle down and work hard at his game, in the way Micah has done, if he wants to have a long-term future with us.

[s1ty m]

Barry. Absolutely pivotal for this City side and was a class above when he came on. What he does is recycle the ball really quickly, getting rid, often forwards, as soon as he controls it. City get forward more quickly and the ball is pinged about more, pulling the opponents all over the pitch I think this is why he has so many England caps too, from lots of different managers; he is a very, very good footballer. City play better when he plays, it's a simple as that.

AJ, well, not the same story for me. His lack of pace is startling for a winger. Him being played on the right means we know and the defenders know he will invariably cut inside. Predictable and mainly fruitless. I would certainly sell him for a decent offer and the person who called Junior Hoilett is spot on for me, he's stronger and faster.

[Dameerto]

Firstly, it's pretty odd to sub someone in the 38th minute. Why not wait until half time.

But then again I understand mancini. It sends a signal to the entire squad, if you guys play like shit (like they did yesterday) all of you risk the fine chance of getting subbed at any minute of the game.
It shows who's in charge and what the man in charge expects performance wise.

That's the only thing I could criticise Bob for, really. Firstly I think it was purely a tactical move, not motivated by AJ's performance in any way (backed up by him acknowledging AJ with a tap as he was going off). Making the sub towards the end of the first half gave the opposition chance to react over halftime and explain to the players what they should do to counter our change and they went from being swamped by us in the final minutes of the first half to being far more comfortable with our new formation in the second half.

[Bridge'srightfoot]

Firstly, it's pretty odd to sub someone in the 38th minute. Why not wait until half time.

But then again I understand mancini. It sends a signal to the entire squad, if you guys play like shit (like they did yesterday) all of you risk the fine chance of getting subbed at any minute of the game.
It shows who's in charge and what the man in charge expects performance wise.

That's the only thing I could criticise Bob for, really. Firstly I think it was purely a tactical move, not motivated by AJ's performance in any way (backed up by him acknowledging AJ with a tap as he was going off). Making the sub towards the end of the first half gave the opposition chance to react over halftime and explain to the players what they should do to counter our change and they went from being swamped by us in the final minutes of the first half to being far more comfortable with our new formation in the second half.

well we scored so it worked. Well done Bob. Showed decisiveness when we needed it.

[Dameerto]

Firstly, it's pretty odd to sub someone in the 38th minute. Why not wait until half time.

But then again I understand mancini. It sends a signal to the entire squad, if you guys play like shit (like they did yesterday) all of you risk the fine chance of getting subbed at any minute of the game.
It shows who's in charge and what the man in charge expects performance wise.

That's the only thing I could criticise Bob for, really. Firstly I think it was purely a tactical move, not motivated by AJ's performance in any way (backed up by him acknowledging AJ with a tap as he was going off). Making the sub towards the end of the first half gave the opposition chance to react over halftime and explain to the players what they should do to counter our change and they went from being swamped by us in the final minutes of the first half to being far more comfortable with our new formation in the second half.

well we scored so it worked. Well done Bob. Showed decisiveness when we needed it.

Of course it worked since it was the right thing to do, I was saying with hindsight we might have had a longer benefit if he'd waited another few minutes until halftime. It was a ballsy gamechanging decision to make and was good to see. Before that match he would have waited until the 60 minute mark to change things around.

[Nige]

We improved drastically once Barry came on, for me doing this before HT was a good and brave move.

AJ - well he is class with his left foot but I cannot understand why he has lost all his confidence to try and beat a man at pace. He stands off waiting for a challenge and if the defender is wise enough to jockey then the move grinds to a halt.

Being the only winger we have may be weighing heavy on his shoulders or his fitness and motivation is shot. I hope he gets back to his best though.

[Bluedj]

AJ aside I think one of the main things last night shows to us is that Mancini needs time to get to know more about the new players yet.

There was zero wrong with Bob's initial set up, AJ actually was doing ok.. no worse i would point out than other players with more responsibility. Mancini wasn't to know that Silva would be out of sorts or that Nige would also be off the pace. I would argue that these two factors are what did it for AJ. It was a fairly obvious move tbh to bring on someone to shore up the space in front of DeJong going forward and to help him defensively. That leads to Nasri.. and that's why i say Bob still needs time to get to know him. To be fair he did try in the first half to take up the slack from Silva but City are always looking for SIlva so there is another issue there. Two or three out of sorts key players left the rest mullered imo. Barry has his own gravity and was the perfect substitution in that situation, if that doesn't quell the doubters as to what Barry brings to the team nothing will.

If Nasri wasn't new and needed to be played to find his feet in the team basically, then i think he would have been the one pulled for Barry. It isn't so much the price tag thing, that is facile thinking tbh, it is the fact that new players have to be given time to suss out their role, they have to be played until they work through the adjustment period, dropping or subbing them is not a smart move for the longer term, so you have to just grin and bear it. Mancini has done that consistently with players brought in and it pays off.

Just a note too about Mancini being seen as a lucky manager... I wonder if that had anything to do with his substitutions creating that 'luck'. So far this season his subs have significantly changed games, won them, saved them or killed them off. Is that all coincidence?

I think Nasri has great games when Cliche plays, they just complement each over on the left wing, when Koralov plays, there isn't that fluidity

[mcfc1632]

When we saw Barry warmimg up on TV my missus said who will he bring off. Both me and my eldest said he will bring off AJ - back to his anonymous worst - and move Yaya forward.

This should be obvious to all City-watchers, although I can understand why it mystified the less-familiar pundits and commentators like Neville.

Yet some people in the ground seemed to be grumbling and mystified. How simple are these people? "Duh, defensive midfielder for brilliant winger, duh, does not compute." Whle AJ of course, having played himself into the team with a couple of excellent performances, played himself out again!

For the rest of the half Barry was 2 classes above anyone else on the field, we were back to playing with (nearly) 11 men and it led to the equaliser.

Well done Mancini.

Have not seen the response to your OP yet - but replying to say - 'spot on' - it was obvious that Edin needed support (and to personally improve) and Ya Ya was the obvious person to do that - so you need a quality MF to come in - really not complex at all

Amazing how many pundits and fans do not look beyon swapping like for like - and also of course you need to wait until the 60th minute

I was delighted that the manager saw what was needed and acted - that is his job

[bigblue]

well we scored so it worked. Well done Bob. Showed decisiveness when we needed it.

Of course it worked since it was the right thing to do, I was saying with hindsight we might have had a longer benefit if he'd waited another few minutes until halftime. It was a ballsy gamechanging decision to make and was good to see. Before that match he would have waited until the 60 minute mark to change things around.

Completely disagree about your hindsight. If we didn't tie the game @ half, Villareal would have the chance to regroup and organize their defense to squeak out a 1-0 win. We had them on the ropes for the 5 mins before the sub, and just needed a slight tweak to break through. The change allowed us to go into the second half level, without villareal being able to try and cling to a slim away win. You saw how much time they wasted even when we were tied, just think how bad it would have been if they were winning.

[Dameerto]

Well I completely disagree with your disagreement. Aren't opinions lovely?

[brite blu sky]

I think Nasri has great games when Cliche plays, they just complement each over on the left wing, when Koralov plays, there isn't that fluidity

Well that shouldn't be too surprising considering they played at the Arse together. It is still early days for Nasri though at City, he is a good player so there shouldn't be a problem fitting in with all around him eventually.

The other aspect is that Nasri is not just employed to play on the left, he will be expected to move centrally and even to the right to swap around with Silva and others. So ultimately he needs to forge a way of playing that is not reliant on any one other player but works within Mancini's system... aware of who of his team mates is doing what and where to cover or assist depending on that.

I would give Nasri just over half a season to start fitting in properly.