The ball over the top

[Kladze]

I've been watching our style of play (and in particular, our opponents methods of dealing with it) very closely just lately.

And they are trying to deal with it - unsuccessfully so far but maybe not for long - by actually allowing us to do things our way but then trying to smother us. In other words, funneling us through the middle and then bottling us up.

Ok we're scoring 3 1/2 goals a game so I definitely don't want to sound like a harbinger of doom but it's been noticeable in three out of four of our chump's league games that we've found it hard to create clear chances / score. Eventually, the better defences in the premier league are going to stop us too - that's my fear.

Now there is one obvious way around this problem. That being to get the ball out wide very quickly and put quality crosses in equally quickly. But, Kolorov's cross for Yaya on Saturday aside, we don't seem able to execute this particular facet of the game too well.

There is of course another way. We need to carry the threat of the ball over the top; the ball which has defenders turning; the ball which has the opposition doing the one thing they don't want to do and the one thing which will make them wary of putting too much pressure on the ball or getting too tight to our forwards.

We must do this I feel, at least often enough to create uncertainty. Balotelli and particularly Aguero are no slouches and can take advantage of it.

The time WILL come when we need to mix our game up and the occasional piece of 'direct play' won't go amiss.

[CityGer]

Interesting stuff but I see a problem with tactic you refer to. Yes, Balo and Aquero have the pace to damage teams in behind but teams are far too deep against us for this to be a viable method of attack.

I've also been watching this closely, more because I've been trying to figure out how Bobby will use Aguero, and I've not seen much scope for us to adopt the style you've desctribed. We've had very few one on ones this season (closing stages at the swamp aside) despite being very dominant and I think that's because teams are so deep.

[brite blu sky]

It has been mentioned from time to time. Crosses low or high are essential for us to improve the general threat and uncertainty in defences and oppo managers tactics. More than crosses too, other forms of direct play.. like running at the defence with a follow up player waiting for any spillage or lay off. We do these things but kind of a bit half hearted imo. On a plus side it does look like we are starting to mix it up more, but that could be just that teams since the Toffees have not tried to just stop us - as it didn't work.

In the longer term it imo this is the area that would potentially make us better than barca. We may be a player or two's full understanding of the whole dynamic away from getting there, but that may take all season to achieve.

What City mustn't do is set into patterns that they repeat.

[Kladze]

Interesting stuff but I see a problem with tactic you refer to. Yes, Balo and Aquero have the pace to damage teams in behind but teams are far too deep against us for this to be a viable method of attack.

I've also been watching this closely, more because I've been trying to figure out how Bobby will use Aguero, and I've not seen much scope for us to adopt the style you've desctribed. We've had very few one on ones this season (closing stages at the swamp aside) despite being very dominant and I think that's because teams are so deep.

Know what you're saying CGer but if the ball is played very early and from deep it has the potential to do damage - it's only the potential (not the actuality) which is needed imo :-)

[Foreverinbluedreams]

Yaya's quite good in this respect, is he not?

I can recall a number of times he's played that little dink over the top, usually to Johnson. Not so much from deep apart from that one he played from the halfway line that Balo scored against Villa last season.

[Dingus McDouchey]

i'm more interested in us getting better at working down the flanks. we haven't mastered this yet. but when Micah and Kolarov/Clichy start getting deep into their half more consistently, we will be laughing. to think we are top and scoring for fun, with room for improvement, must be scary as shit for the rest of the league.

[bigblue]

I think that while the long ball or cross for a header can be effective, the nostalgia around it blinds people to it's biggest weakness: if the long pass or cross doesn't come off, you lose possession. And since we are trying to play a possession game (even on a fast break we look for high percentage passes, rather than the fantastic long pass), the long ball/cross doesn't fit with our tactics.

[zuricity]

i'm more interested in us getting better at working down the flanks. we haven't mastered this yet. but when Micah and Kolarov/Clichy start getting deep into their half more consistently, we will be laughing. to think we are top and scoring for fun, with room for improvement, must be scary as shit for the rest of the league.

This makes sense. There has been several threads recently, being picky about players , or tactics. As if any one on here is expert enough. We are top , five points clear, going into a period of the season that will enable us to plan our holidays before christmas. Quite frankly, City have played some sublime football so far this season. Not always perfect, but some moves have lead to great goals. Some goals even spectacular ( eg Edins last goal at Spurs), some, pure class like Marios at OT.

Clearly not everybody will have a fantastic game everytime, but we have the majority playing really well, most of the time. David Silva has been magnificent so far. Nobody criticised the midfield and defence when united scored, but it could have been stopped.

As the season goes on this squad will get better. There has been a change of the Guard. City are on the rise.

[Mikhail Chigorin]

i'm more interested in us getting better at working down the flanks. we haven't mastered this yet. but when Micah and Kolarov/Clichy start getting deep into their half more consistently, we will be laughing. to think we are top and scoring for fun, with room for improvement, must be scary as shit for the rest of the league.

Nice thought Mr McD.

Brian Clough, in his own inimitable way, used to advocate, amongst others, two potential approaches against a packed defence. The first was to break so quickly out of defence that you caught the opposition with fewer defenders and before they could mass ranks, as it were. I don't think that we do too badly at this, at the moment so the answer probably lies elsewhere.

The second approach Cloughie used to advocate was to work the ball down the flanks and to hammer in crosses hard and low, as early as possible. That way, anybody's boot, as players ran onto the cross, could get a deflection and the ball could just as easily end up in the back of the net as being cleared. Not very scientific but worth a shout once in a while if all else was failing, especially if we don't have a big 'target man' in the middle.

An option I like though, is to work at weaving and 'one-twoing' your way through the centre of the opposition's defence, at the point where they are strongest. That way, if you can crack them open, you've either got a clear sight of goal or the chance for a free kick in a threatening position and we've got players (such as David Silva) who are perfect for this tactic.

Mind you, SuperMario's long range shooting isn't bad either.

[sheblue]

there is no harm in mixing it up now and again, sometimes, just sometimes, i think our play is a bit slow, and an injection of pace and a 'direct' approach would reap some benefits.

[Ted Hughes]

there is no harm in mixing it up now and again, sometimes, just sometimes, i think our play is a bit slow, and an injection of pace and a 'direct' approach would reap some benefits.

Barca have perfected the art of pass & move. The team that succeeds them will be the one which also perfects other methods of play for when 'plan A' isn't working. The more people watch & admire Barca, the more likely it is that some people will learn how to stop them.

[Patrick]

Isnt "hoof it up the field and hope" a bit basic - a bit crap even?

My view of where we are going is that we are developing a touch and pass style that allows us to get past the parked bus and a devastating counter attack that does what clough says above.

We just need to get better and better... I would take a lesson from Munich a few weeks ago - Id be happy to play like that

[Ted Hughes]

Isnt "hoof it up the field and hope" a bit basic - a bit crap even?

My view of where we are going is that we are developing a touch and pass style that allows us to get past the parked bus and a devastating counter attack that does what clough says above.

We just need to get better and better... I would take a lesson from Munich a few weeks ago - Id be happy to play like that

It's not about 'hoofing it up the pitch' it's about moving the opposition defence out of position & giving them a different problem. Balotelli often shouts for a ball over his shoulder when we're passing it square as he can see a space developing behind the defence whilst they're so busy trying to stop us passing through. It doesn't have to be a hoof, it can be the type of pass Hoddle used to play for Clive Allen.

[Dameerto]

We've used a highish ball recently, I cant remember who it was against - maybe Swansea, or possibly Everton. I think it was a specific answer to something they'd seen in match tapes. Basically a diagonal ball (usually in the air) from semi deep in behind the fullback. Very good for neutralising wingbacks.

[brite blu sky]

Kolorov's cross wasn't a hoof.. yet it was from reasonably deep if you like.

Like we have discussed the team to take what barca do to another level need extra tricks in their bag. While the passing game can be almost impossible to stop over 90mins, it is made easier by at least allowing the opposition to know what you are going to do and set up accordingly. If the plays you can resort to are from a really mixed bag then the opposition have to prepare for situations and eventualities where they must make snap decisions about cover and movement.. for just too many options. We have tall players, do we exploit that? and we have FBs that can hold a position well up the field.. do we exploit space at the back post?

One of the reasons imo that teams end up parking the bus is that individually they know they have to cover situations in their own zone.. and just doing that takes all their concentration against City passing it through them, so the natural collective response is to sink back and close up the space.
If you look at what QPR did really really well was anticipate the pass that was going to be made.. anticipate and challenge the receiver. It worked really well time and again and allowed them not to have to sink back. What City failed to do initially in response to that was for players to then move with the ball more and beat their man and so pull the QPR players out of position. When Aguero finds his feet in the Prem he will make a difference to that kind of situation imo. Messi would have had a field day at QPR because he would have had only one player to beat to cause havoc.

The basic point is though that if teams had to bear in mind City's plan A, B and C all the time for 90 mins it would crack them up faster and more often.

[Ted Hughes]

Kolarov's cross & Toure's header was also great skill & beautiful football. The game wasn't designed to be played purely by midgets passing the ball ten yards to each other, there are a mutitude of other skills which are just as valid; crossing & heading being two of them.

Barca are not the be all & end all of how football should be played. They are a fantastic side but they would not be the same side if you took away Lionel Messi. He is frequently their 'plan B'. When their fantastic passing game is being neutralised it is almost always Messi who creates or scores the goal which gets the breakthorough. Put him in our team & we would be above Barca in a year.

Without Messi, other teams need more variety than Barca have in their play. Mourinho is currently doing that at Real Madrid; combining pass & move with width & crosses & you never know, he may just finish above Barca.

[brite blu sky]

Real are looking like they are creating something that will take barca to the wire, and it is exactly that kind of varied play. The head to heads are going to be interesting again this season. You certainly can't say Real will not edge it.

If I had a plan for outdoing barca but based on the passing game, I'm sure i would insist on the pass and move first.. to the point that it was even more than second nature. And I would discourage relaxing that policy until I was satisfied that it had sunk in to the level where it couldn't be unseated ( like it was v Bayern ). But if the aim was to be more than that then there would be a fine line to tread.. ie. when to allow players or the team to free up a bit and make their own call on types of play.
That would be my own point of view for the little it is worth.

I don't know if we are seeing something like that in recent games. I mentioned the debate going on in the dug out at times which just struck me as some of the staff appearing to respond to headed goals and from direct balls with a kind of 'there you go'.
Anyway that is irrelevant tbh. The future has got to be some kind of total football with as many strategies and bells and whistles tacked on as possible. The unpredictable nature of both Balo and Yaya are two pretty good whistles. Aguero should be another.

[Ted Hughes]

Our percentage of goals from crosses this season is much higher so I think we're trying to play with variation. One thing to improve on imo is getting those crosses in earlier when 'plan A' isn't working. In the home game v Villareal we were being blocked time & again through the middle but were not using the wide option properly.

From where I'm sat, my leg was actually twitching when the ball came to players in front of me & they had that split second window to put a ball behind the defence but only if they hit it 1st time. 90% of the time they miissed the opportunity but when they did do it, we created (and missed) a chance. Where I'm sat we were wondering why we just didn't set up a production line of crosses & keep doing it (like the rags used to do when they were good).

Then, a sudden change back to our central passing game would be more likely to score. Rags have succeeded so many times like that in Europe, sometimes reducing top sides to nervous wrecks because they are not used to defending against that kind of constant pressure, pitch wide football.

[brite blu sky]

Good that you pointed to the missed opportunities for first time deliveries.. seen and reacted to that a lot too. You can only think that a footballers instinct is to make the play, so are they being told not to follow that, check and make sure there is a good chance of success or not losing possession.
The points a lot of posters are making would make us a much better threat and ramp up the psychological fear factor in defences.

The thing is that this is all obvious stuff, outside Mancini even, Kiddo and Potato head would both know the value of this. I'm sticking to assuming that this is all in the plan and they are waiting for some signs in the team that show the passing and movement game is hardwired in and they can relax the control.

Another argument is that in any group when asked to do something specific they have to learn and master, will eventually start fraying the edges as they master it, partly frustration partly cockyness partly inspiration partly just because they can. I certainly would not put it past Bob's canniness to be playing that with the team. Eventually they will do all that he is asking of them and then lots of whatever they want on top.

[Ted Hughes]

I think we're starting to do all this stuff. Now the actual quality of crosses has started to improve, forwards & midfielders will think it's worth making the runs & gamble that a cross will come in. That goal Yaya scored was very different to most of our goals in recent years. I expect they'll want to try it again & mix the odd one in with the passing game & the low crosses.

Similarly, Mario & Aguero are happy to try & get on the end of the occasional 'ball over the top' mentioned in the o.p. It will all come together as time moves on & the squad learns its capabilities.