See Duncan Edwards is starting in Midfield

[Beefymcfc]

If the scum had have played against us at the swamp with a flat back nine and beaten us 1-0 from a set piece goal we would be going nuts, calling them useless, negative wankers.

Eh, that's got to be the worst example going. United are our rivals and deserve to get slagged accordingly whereas England are our team, or mine anyway, and deserve our support. I think alot of people just want to see us fail just so they can say I told you so, not me though, England are my team and if they win ugly, that'll do for me.

Did we not beat the World Champs, the best team around? Imagine if we'd have got pummelled like everyone hoped, sorry, thought.

[Douglas Higginbottom]

Beating Spain as we did is one of the few signs I have seen from Capello that he is a good manager.The best and maybe only way we were going to beat Spain was with a defensive plan and sneak a goal on the break and most likely as we did from a set piece.

Even in that game there were strange things going on like not selecting Micah andf most definitely playing Duncan Edwards in midfield.The question as we get closer to the Euros is whether he has the bottle to pick the right players as for me that does not include Terry or Ferdinand and I sincerely hope it won't include Lampard and Grard together again.

[Beefymcfc]

Beating Spain as we did is one of the few signs I have seen from Capello that he is a good manager.The best and maybe only way we were going to beat Spain was with a defensive plan and sneak a goal on the break and most likely as we did from a set piece.

Even in that game there were strange things going on like not selecting Micah andf most definitely playing Duncan Edwards in midfield.The question as we get closer to the Euros is whether he has the bottle to pick the right players as for me that does not include Terry or Ferdinand and I sincerely hope it won't include Lampard and Grard together again.

Good call mate. I'm hoping that an England manager will actually field a team that he believes will win us a game rather than going with the media and sponsors choice. It'll take a brave man but isn't that why they get paid the big bucks.

[Ted Hughes]

Fuck me, England beat the current World and Euro Champions and people complain! Yes, hate Capello, hate Terry, hate the way we play, but whinging that we didn't play Barca'esque type football against a Barca'ish side sounds, well, wrong.

We won, enjoy.

I didn't enjoy one second of it though. It was no different to Pearce's City team which I also thought was a disgrace. The sad thing is; City were skint; this is supposed to be the elite of English football. We have learned nothing & achieved nothing. Utd's victory v us in the Charity Shield was far more convincing & look how that ended up.

The thing is, Ted, that everyone slates us for not doing anything yet when we actually achieve something without the likes of Rooney, Terry et al the lads who get us there should get some plaudits, afterall, we praise our team for winning ugly, don't we.

If we played Barca in a cup final & won 1-0 playing like that as a one off maybe but we know we have a team who can play if we need to; England don't. To stick a bunch of defenders in the team & play like Everton, at Wembley, in a friendly game...

This bloke has been at it for 3 years. He doesn't know his best CB pairing, right back, his midfield, his wide players or his striking combo. He still has no fucking idea today, as he's just wasted a game against the world champions playing a formation that would be totally useless in 95% of games against anyone else. Against Sweden, he has to change everything.

A fully wound up Spain team, playing away from Wembley in a competitive match, would most likely get through & score anyway. Then imagine how good Parker & Co would look when England suddenly have to bring on forwards & attack & they have to chase David Silva & Fabregas around ? At least if they were going to play that way, they could have tried it with more creative players & see if they could defend like that with a team which could counter attack. That would have meant something.

Have a look at England's record away from this country, in tournaments. We don't beat ANYBODY. How the fuck will we learn to do it playing like that when we get the chance to experiment ? Why are we paying Capello to do that ? We know Fat sam can do it exactly the same.

[Beefymcfc]

Fuck me, England beat the current World and Euro Champions and people complain! Yes, hate Capello, hate Terry, hate the way we play, but whinging that we didn't play Barca'esque type football against a Barca'ish side sounds, well, wrong.

We won, enjoy.

I didn't enjoy one second of it though. It was no different to Pearce's City team which I also thought was a disgrace. The sad thing is; City were skint; this is supposed to be the elite of English football. We have learned nothing & achieved nothing. Utd's victory v us in the Charity Shield was far more convincing & look how that ended up.

The thing is, Ted, that everyone slates us for not doing anything yet when we actually achieve something without the likes of Rooney, Terry et al the lads who get us there should get some plaudits, afterall, we praise our team for winning ugly, don't we.

If we played Barca in a cup final & won 1-0 playing like that as a one off maybe but we know we have a team who can play if we need to; England don't. To stick a bunch of defenders in the team & play like Everton, at Wembley, in a friendly game...

This bloke has been at it for 3 years. He doesn't know his best CB pairing, right back, his midfield, his wide players or his striking combo. He still has no fucking idea today, as he's just wasted a game against the world champions playing a formation that would be totally useless in 95% of games against anyone else. Against Sweden, he has to change everything.

A fully wound up Spain team, playing away from Wembley in a competitive match, would most likely get through & score anyway. Then imagine how good Parker & Co would look when England suddenly have to bring on forwards & attack & they have to chase David Silva & Fabregas around ? At least if they were going to play that way, they could have tried it with more creative players & see if they could defend like that with a team which could counter attack. That would have meant something.

Have a look at England's record away from this country, in tournaments. We don't beat ANYBODY. How the fuck will we learn to do it playing like that when we get the chance to experiment ? Why are we paying Capello to do that ? We know Fat sam can do it exactly the same.

You have that in a nutshell. We played a near Barca team who beat, well, everybody. And I don't get you, I'm not up on Capello but those lads went out and did a job. Every game should be geared to beating the opposition yet you complain when he does just that.

What did you want, for the team to go and play football against the best footballing team in the world? What we actually learned is that Capello changed the team from trying to play all the so called star players to a team that went out and did a job. If you can't give him, or the team credit for that then I can't see how we can even have a conversation. And as I see you as someone who does like to talk about the good thingds and bad then I can only put your comments down as an irate rant because you wanted to see the team, and mainly Capello, fail.

[Ted Hughes]

Why on Earth would I want to see it fail ?

I thought i'd given the reason I'm not happy with it; I don't think it achieved anything. I don't think that was a fully focused Spain team & I don't think we will succeed in a real tournament if we try it again. I think Spain will score & then tear us a new arsehole.

What would I like to see ? If we were going to play a cautious game, I would like to see a balanced team, playing pass & move football but getting men behind the ball & trying to learn how to defend as a team with a threat. That would have been a worthwhile exercise in playing international football & actually trying to build something. I would like us to have had a counter attacking plan other than leather the ball back to Spain. That's what Italians are supposed to do. What we got was Fat Sam troglodyte football not Italian defensive football.

It meant nothing.

[daveh1962]

Fuck me, England beat the current World and Euro Champions and people complain! Yes, hate Capello, hate Terry, hate the way we play, but whinging that we didn't play Barca'esque type football against a Barca'ish side sounds, well, wrong.

We won, enjoy.

I didn't enjoy one second of it though. It was no different to Pearce's City team which I also thought was a disgrace. The sad thing is; City were skint; this is supposed to be the elite of English football. We have learned nothing & achieved nothing. Utd's victory v us in the Charity Shield was far more convincing & look how that ended up.

The thing is, Ted, that everyone slates us for not doing anything yet when we actually achieve something without the likes of Rooney, Terry et al the lads who get us there should get some plaudits, afterall, we praise our team for winning ugly, don't we.

If we played Barca in a cup final & won 1-0 playing like that as a one off maybe but we know we have a team who can play if we need to; England don't. To stick a bunch of defenders in the team & play like Everton, at Wembley, in a friendly game...

This bloke has been at it for 3 years. He doesn't know his best CB pairing, right back, his midfield, his wide players or his striking combo. He still has no fucking idea today, as he's just wasted a game against the world champions playing a formation that would be totally useless in 95% of games against anyone else. Against Sweden, he has to change everything.

A fully wound up Spain team, playing away from Wembley in a competitive match, would most likely get through & score anyway. Then imagine how good Parker & Co would look when England suddenly have to bring on forwards & attack & they have to chase David Silva & Fabregas around ? At least if they were going to play that way, they could have tried it with more creative players & see if they could defend like that with a team which could counter attack. That would have meant something.

Have a look at England's record away from this country, in tournaments. We don't beat ANYBODY. How the fuck will we learn to do it playing like that when we get the chance to experiment ? Why are we paying Capello to do that ? We know Fat sam can do it exactly the same.

You have that in a nutshell. We played a near Barca team who beat, well, everybody. And I don't get you, I'm not up on Capello but those lads went out and did a job. Every game should be geared to beating the opposition yet you complain when he does just that.

What did you want, for the team to go and play football against the best footballing team in the world? What we actually learned is that Capello changed the team from trying to play all the so called star players to a team that went out and did a job. If you can't give him, or the team credit for that then I can't see how we can even have a conversation. And as I see you as someone who does like to talk about the good thingds and bad then I can only put your comments down as an irate rant because you wanted to see the team, and mainly Capello, fail.

Surely the point is that we want England to do well in competitions like the Euro and World Cup. The point is playing like that might win 1 game in 10 against a side like Spain but in a hot climate and in a competitive match England cannot play like they did last night. When you have to rely on technique rather than work rate England will struggle as they have done in nearly every competition they have entered.

I am not blaming Capello per se but as the England manager he could and should have demanded changes in the coaching structure so that we could potentially have an English David Silva or Messi but he hasn't and so we have to go into a major competition with the prime attribute of the MoTM as being he worked hard NOT that he created or scored a goal which surely is the aim of the game.

Many sides have defended well against us but eventually we have overcome as skill and more technique will more often as not beat hard work alone

[Beefymcfc]

Can someone please tell me what it mean't to those 11 plus players who beat the World Champions, I wonder if they thought it was a waste of time? I also wonder how Holland felt in the WC final after kicking Spain off the park, I wonder if they would've took the game last night.

Progress isn't losing, especially when Capello sent quite a few youngsters out there against the likes of Iniesta, Xavi, Pique, Silva, Villa et al (yes, you read those names right, we played against them). He experimented and it paid off.

By the way, how many shots on target did [strike]Barca[/strike] Spain get? Oh, that was it, the exact same number as us. Wierd eh?

[Ted Hughes]

Can someone please tell me what it mean't to those 11 plus players who beat the World Champions, I wonder if they thought it was a waste of time? I also wonder how Holland felt in the WC final after kicking Spain off the park, I wonder if they would've took the game last night.

Progress isn't losing, especially when Capello sent quite a few youngsters out there against the likes of Iniesta, Xavi, Pique, Silva, Villa et al (yes, you read those names right, we played against them). He experimented and it paid off.

By the way, how many shots on target did [strike]Barca[/strike] Spain get? Oh, that was it, the exact same number as us. Wierd eh?

Holland were dirty but imo they still played better than England did & still lost. The 'youngsters' thing is a bit of a myth too. Most so called 'youngsters' came on as substitutes. Jones was the only one to start; a centre half playing in midfield.

If we play 100 games like that in real tournaments Spain will score first & they will embarrass us in 95 of them. It wasn't a true game & it was at Wembley. We will probably not play Spain in a real game at Wembley for decades. By that time these players will have retired.

[Beefymcfc]

Can someone please tell me what it mean't to those 11 plus players who beat the World Champions, I wonder if they thought it was a waste of time? I also wonder how Holland felt in the WC final after kicking Spain off the park, I wonder if they would've took the game last night.

Progress isn't losing, especially when Capello sent quite a few youngsters out there against the likes of Iniesta, Xavi, Pique, Silva, Villa et al (yes, you read those names right, we played against them). He experimented and it paid off.

By the way, how many shots on target did [strike]Barca[/strike] Spain get? Oh, that was it, the exact same number as us. Wierd eh?

Holland were dirty but imo they still played better than England did & still lost. The 'youngsters' thing is a bit of a myth too. Most so called 'youngsters' came on as substitutes. Jones was the only one to start; a centre half playing in midfield.

If we play 100 games like that in real tournaments Spain will score first & they will embarrass us in 95 of them. It wasn't a true game & it was at Wembley. We will probably not play Spain in a real game at Wembley for decades. By that time these players will have retired.

Rebuff, rebuff - it's not working mate. We may not play Spain again ever, but those who beat them will remember it for the rest of their lives.

And, if, if, if. If City win the League, the Champs League, FA Cup and League Cup, you'd be happy, right. If's are something that pessimists and optomists cling to but we know, as fact, that England beat Spain 1-0. There's no 'if's' there mate.

Oh, and Holland did play better than us, but they lost didn't they? I put a pound to a penny that they'd take the 1-0, what do ya reckon?

Oh, and oh again. Regardless of being subs or not I counted 4 youngsters playing in that game as well as quite a few players that I would class as junior/new players, something I'm hoping will happen more. At least they had heart unlike the fuckers who expect to walk into the team when fit, cashing in on the knowledge they are assured of an England game.

[Hazy2]

I would take Jagielka, in Jan, into our squad, very good versatile player.

[Ted Hughes]

Can someone please tell me what it mean't to those 11 plus players who beat the World Champions, I wonder if they thought it was a waste of time? I also wonder how Holland felt in the WC final after kicking Spain off the park, I wonder if they would've took the game last night.

Progress isn't losing, especially when Capello sent quite a few youngsters out there against the likes of Iniesta, Xavi, Pique, Silva, Villa et al (yes, you read those names right, we played against them). He experimented and it paid off.

By the way, how many shots on target did [strike]Barca[/strike] Spain get? Oh, that was it, the exact same number as us. Wierd eh?

Holland were dirty but imo they still played better than England did & still lost. The 'youngsters' thing is a bit of a myth too. Most so called 'youngsters' came on as substitutes. Jones was the only one to start; a centre half playing in midfield.

If we play 100 games like that in real tournaments Spain will score first & they will embarrass us in 95 of them. It wasn't a true game & it was at Wembley. We will probably not play Spain in a real game at Wembley for decades. By that time these players will have retired.

Rebuff, rebuff - it's not working mate. We may not play Spain again ever, but those who beat them will remember it for the rest of their lives.

And, if, if, if. If City win the League, the Champs League, FA Cup and League Cup, you'd be happy, right. If's are something that pessimists and optomists cling to but we know, as fact, that England beat Spain 1-0. There's no 'if's' there mate.

Oh, and Holland did play better than us, but they lost didn't they? I put a pound to a penny that they'd take the 1-0, what do ya reckon?

Oh, and oh again. Regardless of being subs or not I counted 4 youngsters playing in that game as well as quite a few players that I would class as junior/new players, something I'm hoping will happen more. At least they had heart unlike the fuckers who expect to walk into the team when fit, cashing in on the knowledge they are assured of an England game.

I'm all for leaving out the failures of the past but the 1st failure to go imo would be Lampard & it was him who scored. Now he gets the plaudits for that & we'll have to put up with the twat for even longer. Imo Walcott Wellbeck & Rodwell will only be playing for England in the future if we are shit. They are not good enough. On Tuesday JT & Cahill will be back to replace the best two players in the team; Lescott & Jagielka. The whole thing is a fucking fiasco & Capello is the biggest con artist in football.

[feedthegreek]

jagielka as already been sent home, according to 5 live radio about 30 mins ago.
so your right about that one.

[Beefymcfc]

Can someone please tell me what it mean't to those 11 plus players who beat the World Champions, I wonder if they thought it was a waste of time? I also wonder how Holland felt in the WC final after kicking Spain off the park, I wonder if they would've took the game last night.

Progress isn't losing, especially when Capello sent quite a few youngsters out there against the likes of Iniesta, Xavi, Pique, Silva, Villa et al (yes, you read those names right, we played against them). He experimented and it paid off.

By the way, how many shots on target did [strike]Barca[/strike] Spain get? Oh, that was it, the exact same number as us. Wierd eh?

Holland were dirty but imo they still played better than England did & still lost. The 'youngsters' thing is a bit of a myth too. Most so called 'youngsters' came on as substitutes. Jones was the only one to start; a centre half playing in midfield.

If we play 100 games like that in real tournaments Spain will score first & they will embarrass us in 95 of them. It wasn't a true game & it was at Wembley. We will probably not play Spain in a real game at Wembley for decades. By that time these players will have retired.

Rebuff, rebuff - it's not working mate. We may not play Spain again ever, but those who beat them will remember it for the rest of their lives.

And, if, if, if. If City win the League, the Champs League, FA Cup and League Cup, you'd be happy, right. If's are something that pessimists and optomists cling to but we know, as fact, that England beat Spain 1-0. There's no 'if's' there mate.

Oh, and Holland did play better than us, but they lost didn't they? I put a pound to a penny that they'd take the 1-0, what do ya reckon?

Oh, and oh again. Regardless of being subs or not I counted 4 youngsters playing in that game as well as quite a few players that I would class as junior/new players, something I'm hoping will happen more. At least they had heart unlike the fuckers who expect to walk into the team when fit, cashing in on the knowledge they are assured of an England game.

I'm all for leaving out the failures of the past but the 1st failure to go imo would be Lampard & it was him who scored. Now he gets the plaudits for that & we'll have to put up with the twat for even longer. Imo Walcott Wellbeck & Rodwell will only be playing for England in the future if we are shit. They are not good enough. On Tuesday JT & Cahill will be back to replace the best two players in the team; Lescott & Jagielka. The whole thing is a fucking fiasco & Capello is the biggest con artist in football.

I don't disagree with many of your points mate but for this individual match you cannot say that the end justified the means. The goal wasn't even Lampard's, it was already going in but he just made sure. We cannot base our team on the likes of Terry and Lampard, if fact, we should never base a team on any player unless they are proving it on the pitch for England time and time again.

Let's just hope Capello has learnt from this and realises it's not the big names that make England tick, it's the lads who want to play for the shirt not the money. Somehow, I don't think the FA will agree. The Spain game was one of those that'll get people buying tickets and tuning in anyway, it's the likes of Sweden that forces us to play the names. We've got to pay for the stadium and Capello somehow.

[brite blu sky]

I think you should postpone this debate till after the Sweden game, see how they line up for that and see what ambition they show.

Overall I can only agree with ted. Everton was a good comparison.
So everyone is singing and dancing that they beat the mighty Spain. Lets see them do it in a competitive match. England fans are in danger of starting the hype that ends in tears and all ted is pointing out is that england are dismal, severely lack competent players and are selected and set up in an extremely suspect manner.
That seems spot on to me. Nicking a goal in a friendly is not a base to plan anything on.

[Beefymcfc]

I think you should postpone this debate till after the Sweden game, see how they line up for that and see what ambition they show.

Overall I can only agree with ted. Everton was a good comparison.
So everyone is singing and dancing that they beat the mighty Spain. Lets see them do it in a competitive match. England fans are in danger of starting the hype that ends in tears and all ted is pointing out is that england are dismal, severely lack competent players and are selected and set up in an extremely suspect manner.
That seems spot on to me. Nicking a goal in a friendly is not a base to plan anything on.

There's no hype mate, and by your own admission you aren't an England fan (looking at your location, and knowing this, I'd actually suggest you're more of a Spain fan than Ireland). What I can say is that in a one off match, regardless of whether it's a friendly or not, a comparatively inexperienced side beat Spain. This doesn't make us WC winners or World Campions, it makes us a team that decided to work for a win, and that's what they got.

And yes, we'll wait for the Sweden game but hopefully Capello has a bit more to think about than just pick the usual suspects. Surely he'll go for the old guard but those lads who played last night have given him something to think about.

[mr_nool]

You will look like world beaters again come Tuesday night after demolishing a very pedestrian Swedish team.

[Douglas Higginbottom]

You will look like world beaters again come Tuesday night after demolishing a very pedestrian Swedish team.

Cahill and Terry could give Sweden opportunities so it could be an open game.

[Ted Hughes]

Spain last ten friendly results before England:

29 May 2010 Spain 3-2 Saudi Arabia
3 Jun 2010 Spain 1-0 Korea Republic
11 Aug 2010 Mexico 1-1 Spain
7 Sep 2010 Argentina 4-1 Spain
17 Nov 2010 Portugal 4-0 Spain
9 Feb 2011 Spain 1-0 Colombia
4 Jun 2011 USA 0-4 Spain
7 Jun 2011 Venezuela 0-3 Spain
10 Aug 2011 Italy 2-1 Spain
2 Sep 2011 Spain 3-2 Chile

12 Nov 2011 England 1-0 Spain


Not exactly enough to make you want to play 11 defenders is it?

[brite blu sky]

Just to complete the comparison. EuroQualifier last 8 competitive games


----- P W D L F A GD Pt
Spain 8 8 0 0 26 6 +20 24