El Clasico

[bigblue]

no sarcasm, you seem to be implying you think Messi developed his skills through use - I don't agree. I think he honed a natural talent. I also think Ronaldo was born an above average player who got to where he is through self-belief and an almost obsessive aproach to training. (same as Beckscum)

So Messi had to work on the physical side of his game, while Ronaldo had to work on the technical side of his. Don't see a big enough difference in amount of effort necessary to make it to the top (I don't think you understand what an achievement it is for someone with a lack of growth hormones to become a pro athlete). Both involve hard work, and you're a fool if you think Messi came out the womb with the touch and skills that he has now. A complete fool.

[Dameerto]

no sarcasm, you seem to be implying you think Messi developed his skills through use - I don't agree. I think he honed a natural talent. I also think Ronaldo was born an above average player who got to where he is through self-belief and an almost obsessive aproach to training. (same as Beckscum)

So Messi had to work on the physical side of his game, while Ronaldo had to work on the technical side of his. Don't see a big enough difference in amount of effort necessary to make it to the top (I don't think you understand what an achievement it is for someone with a lack of growth hormones to become a pro athlete). Both involve hard work, and you're a fool if you think Messi came out the womb with the touch and skills that he has now. A complete fool.

Ronaldo's game is reliant on physicality and technique, both of which he has developed, Messi matches him for technique (also developed) BUT doesn't depend on it - he is capable of moments of sheer brilliance to change games (matching our own Silva in terms or reading games and using an inbuilt sonar to find team mates, or his own skill on the ball to dance through the best defences in the world) THAT is what he was born with. I don't think I'm the fool here.

I'm also not claiming Ronaldo is the better footballer for being a selfmade man - I'm saying he is a lesser player to Messi and highlighting why (over a full season) he can be seen as less consistent than Messi.

[bigblue]

no sarcasm, you seem to be implying you think Messi developed his skills through use - I don't agree. I think he honed a natural talent. I also think Ronaldo was born an above average player who got to where he is through self-belief and an almost obsessive aproach to training. (same as Beckscum)

So Messi had to work on the physical side of his game, while Ronaldo had to work on the technical side of his. Don't see a big enough difference in amount of effort necessary to make it to the top (I don't think you understand what an achievement it is for someone with a lack of growth hormones to become a pro athlete). Both involve hard work, and you're a fool if you think Messi came out the womb with the touch and skills that he has now. A complete fool.

Ronaldo's game is reliant on physicality and technique, both of which he has developed, Messi matches him for technique (also developed) BUT doesn't depend on it - he is capable of moments of sheer brilliance to change games (matching our own Silva in terms or reading games and using an inbuilt sonar to find team mates, or his own skill on the ball to dance through the best defences in the world) THAT is what he was born with. I don't think I'm the fool here.

I'm also not claiming Ronaldo is the better footballer for being a selfmade man - I'm saying he is a lesser player to Messi and highlighting why (over a full season) he can be seen as less consistent than Messi.

But you're creating artificial distinctions that don't exist.

Like saying Messi doesn't depend on his technique because of his "moments of sheer brilliance". There's technique; being able to do a trick, then there's skill; being able to do a trick at the right moment in the game. Moments of sheer brilliance are acts of skill which are built upon solid technique. So for Messi to create something out of nothing, he is acting upon 1,000's of hours of practice to develop his technique, then 1,000's more hours of learning how to apply that technique to match situations.

Just because Ronaldo's demeanor is more serious it doesn't mean he works harder.

[Dameerto]

What Im doing is expressing an opinion on a forum about football - what you seem to be doing is being argumentative for the sake of it.

[bigblue]

What Im doing is expressing an opinion on a forum about football - what you seem to be doing is being argumentative for the sake of it.

So you're happy to argue until you run out of things to say. Then I'm just being argumentative. Interesting

[Dameerto]

You say argue, I say fill in the gaps in your understanding.

[bigblue]

You say argue, I say fill in the gaps in your understanding.

Ok, now who's arguing for the sake of arguing? I take it you diverted the conversation from the original discussion because you can't think of anything intelligent to say. Care to prove me wrong? Or do you just cry foul when you run out of ideas

[Dameerto]

When someone argues back is white, it's not very productive to continue. You have a history of doing so. I think we've highjacked this thread enough so PM me or whatever for the last word.

[bigblue]

When someone argues back is white, it's not very productive to continue. You have a history of doing so. I think we've highjacked this thread enough so PM me or whatever for the last word.

You're pathetic.

You say Ronaldo has had to work harder than Messi because Messi is blessed from God with his ability.
I say that his ability came from years of hard work.
You say Messi doesn't depend on technical ability because of his ability to create "sheer moments of brilliance"
I say those moments of brilliance are based on great technique and a mastery of applying that technique to game situations (skill).
You go cry that I just like to argue and don't make sense (while refusing to offer a counter point).

No guts to actually defend your half-baked ideas. Instead you run away while yelling about how unfair I am. Either grow a pair or a brain, because right now you don't have either.

[twosips]

He's without doubt the second best player in the world. No one even comes close to Him and Messi.

Iniesta? Xavi?

[freshie]

Last night we had another example that Tranny can't perform when is really necesary. In big games he was/is shite.

I've watched the game in spanish commentary and they said something like this (i hope i got it right): Tranny said he was sent by God to play football and Messi replied: I didn't sent anyone.

PMSL.

What utter shite. He's scored many goals in the biggest of games.

What utter shite. He is, and always has been, a flat track bully. Show me some examples of these goals scored in the biggest of games. He was the same in the Premiership - I can't recall one derby where he had a good game. You don't half talk some shit

[Bridge'srightfoot]

Last night we had another example that Tranny can't perform when is really necesary. In big games he was/is shite.

I've watched the game in spanish commentary and they said something like this (i hope i got it right): Tranny said he was sent by God to play football and Messi replied: I didn't sent anyone.

PMSL.

What utter shite. He's scored many goals in the biggest of games.

What utter shite. He is, and always has been, a flat track bully. Show me some examples of these goals scored in the biggest of games. He was the same in the Premiership - I can't recall one derby where he had a good game. You don't half talk some shit

How about the Champions League final? Or is that not a big game? How about when he scored a 40 yarder against Porto to put United through? Or his header against Roma?

Only The most bitter, pathetic blues could fail to recognize his talent.

[Beefymcfc]

Please tell me how you can hope both teams lose miserably? Cheating, diving fucks!

[Ted Hughes]

Last night we had another example that Tranny can't perform when is really necesary. In big games he was/is shite.

I've watched the game in spanish commentary and they said something like this (i hope i got it right): Tranny said he was sent by God to play football and Messi replied: I didn't sent anyone.

PMSL.

What utter shite. He's scored many goals in the biggest of games.

What utter shite. He is, and always has been, a flat track bully. Show me some examples of these goals scored in the biggest of games. He was the same in the Premiership - I can't recall one derby where he had a good game. You don't half talk some shit

How about the Champions League final? Or is that not a big game? How about when he scored a 40 yarder against Porto to put United through? Or his header against Roma?

Only The most bitter, pathetic blues could fail to recognize his talent.

It's possible to recognise his talent (which he undoubtably has in spades) but not rate him quite as highly as you do & also believe he bottles most of the big games; which he does both at club & country level (and scoring a goal in any given game, even a brilliant one, doesn't neccessarily mean you played well or are a big game player ), ask Emile Heskey. Ronaldo plays in LOTS of very big games. In many of them he has been shite. No truly great player is shite in a lot of big games; the best ones step up most of the time. Stephen Gerrard is a better player on the big stage than Ronaldo.

[freshie]

How about the Champions League final? Or is that not a big game? How about when he scored a 40 yarder against Porto to put United through? Or his header against Roma?

Only The most bitter, pathetic blues could fail to recognize his talent.

The same champions league final in which he missed a penalty in the shoot-out? Or perhaps you're talking about the final in which the rags lost against barca and he was at his petulant best?

I'm not denying he is a talented player, just that he bottles it in the big games for club and country

[Avalon]

Last night we had another example that Tranny can't perform when is really necesary. In big games he was/is shite.

I've watched the game in spanish commentary and they said something like this (i hope i got it right): Tranny said he was sent by God to play football and Messi replied: I didn't sent anyone.

PMSL.

Hmmmm. Wanker stuff like being sent by god i would expect from ronaldo. Messi claiming to be god i wouldn't expect and i would say is going a bit too far.

I think it was a joke from the commentators. I don't think anybody actually said that, though, if they did, I must applaude Messi's whit.