Do we moan enough?

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

Not as supporters you understand, we moan loads, but the players.
My lad commented during the game that we don't whinge enough to referees and try and influence decisions on the pitch. And then on the train home a chap I was talking to, said that Mancini had made this a policy.
Personally I like this approach and I have said for some time, that only managers can stop diving and cheating and getting in the refs face. But should we be more vocal with the ref, because we appear to be losing out.
Also, how have we managed to get so many red cards, when we are quite clearly not a dirty team. We play fast passing football (on a good day) and yet we have a record of red cards that makes us look like 'cloggers'. I'm quite certain we are more sinned against than sinning. For example, Everton turned upwith a "boot on sight" policy and hardly got a foul given against them.
Conspiracy theories at the ready please. Strange how the main decisions have gone against us in the three games against 'the old guard'

[aaron bond]

I was also thinking about this last night. I genuinely don't want to believe there is any conspiracy against City specifically, but I think teams such as United and Liverpool always make a lot of noise when something doesn't go their way, whether it's during the game, or afterwards in a post-match interview. If they continuosly do this, then it will naturally be in the minds of refs and those at the FA, and so they may well be inclined to overlook certain misdemeanours so they don't have to face the wrath of anyone in the future. I don't think it's done on purpose, but sometimes people like to take the easier option to make it easier for themselves, that's human nature.

I like the way Mancini tries to ensure our players don't moan and just get on with the game, but a large part of United's success in recent years is fear - in that they are feared by opposition teams and referees alike. Kenny Dalglish made a big song and dance earlier in the season about refs getting everything wrong for his team, talking about it in every interview for about 4-5 weeks on the trot. As much as I don't want us to go down that path, we may have to be vocal when we feel aggrieved, and I think this tackle by Johnson is a perfectly good starting point.

[Ted Hughes]

We have been stitched up all season & I think it was the home game v Wolves when we had 70% posession & about 6 free kicks to their 15 or something. At Goodison last season, Phil Dowd put everton back in the game by giving them every free kick they whinged for. So basically you're right.

Imo though, we should just continue to win fairly. Fuck them. Let them all cheat & let's continue to rise above it. We'll get there.

[Rag_hater]

We have been stitched up all season & I think it was the home game v Wolves when we had 70% posession & about 6 free kicks to their 15 or something. At Goodison last season, Phil Dowd put everton back in the game by giving them every free kick they whinged for. So basically you're right.

Imo though, we should just continue to win fairly. Fuck them. Let them all cheat & let's continue to rise above it. We'll get there.

I don't think we should as you say try and rise above it I think like the old saying if you can't beat em join em.If we had somebody moaning like shrek did then maybe Johnson's tackle would have resulted in the same outcome as Vincents.

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

We have been stitched up all season & I think it was the home game v Wolves when we had 70% posession & about 6 free kicks to their 15 or something. At Goodison last season, Phil Dowd put everton back in the game by giving them every free kick they whinged for. So basically you're right.

Imo though, we should just continue to win fairly. Fuck them. Let them all cheat & let's continue to rise above it. We'll get there.

In an ideal world you're right. Who wouldn't want to win that way? But there does seem to be some merit in whining like stuck pigs, surrounding the ref, gesturing and posturing. It seems we are far too nice on the pitch. maybe we should be making the point loudly that Mancini instils this in his players to see some benefit from it in the future.
Interviews by managers are an interesting tool too. Bacon Face confidently announced the referee was correct and then said that "Kompany had got away with it before" You just know that has now sunk into the minds of referees. I read those comments thinking "you stupid horrible twat, how dare yer" but I know that it is all said to serve the filth's ends.

[Original Dub]

We have been stitched up all season & I think it was the home game v Wolves when we had 70% posession & about 6 free kicks to their 15 or something. At Goodison last season, Phil Dowd put everton back in the game by giving them every free kick they whinged for. So basically you're right.

Imo though, we should just continue to win fairly. Fuck them. Let them all cheat & let's continue to rise above it. We'll get there.

I don't think we should as you say try and rise above it I think like the old saying if you can't beat em join em.If we had somebody moaning like shrek did then maybe Johnson's tackle would have resulted in the same outcome as Vincents.

I get what the lads are saying about rising above it and its fine in an ideal world, but you get no recognition for it.

Its the equivalent of making a meal of being tackled. To show the contact. To draw attention. It has been part of the game since the rags started surrounding the ref everytime and baconface started warning refs before the game.

Being fair is all well and good, but not if it leaves you on an unlevel playing field.

[Douglas Higginbottom]

We have been stitched up all season & I think it was the home game v Wolves when we had 70% posession & about 6 free kicks to their 15 or something. At Goodison last season, Phil Dowd put everton back in the game by giving them every free kick they whinged for. So basically you're right.

Imo though, we should just continue to win fairly. Fuck them. Let them all cheat & let's continue to rise above it. We'll get there.

I don't think we should as you say try and rise above it I think like the old saying if you can't beat em join em.If we had somebody moaning like shrek did then maybe Johnson's tackle would have resulted in the same outcome as Vincents.

I get what the lads are saying about rising above it and its fine in an ideal world, but you get no recognition for it.

Its the equivalent of making a meal of being tackled. To show the contact. To draw attention. It has been part of the game since the rags started surrounding the ref everytime and baconface started warning refs before the game.

Being fair is all well and good, but not if it leaves you on an unlevel playing field.

There is also a way of doing it.A couple of players did say something to the ref last night but there was probably not enough venom in it compared to shrek.

[bobby brows]

Daniel Taylor in a guardian 'blog' on saturday says that City are under orders not to talk back, surround the ref or dive! Seems quite an ironic piece with hindsight!

Personally I'm all for a little bit of gamesmanship if thats what were going up against! Were winning no friends as it is and everyone seems to take any failure to win the game as a lack of spirit, or a crisis or an excuse to crucify us!

[BobbyJ1956]

It's a bad sign when people are saying City players should show "more venom" in their responses to referees. I do not want to see City players surrounding the ref and screaming at him. Yet some on here want "more venom.' Look at that word! More poison? That's waht it means. Well, why stop there, why not put more venom into tackles, too, and cripple a few opposition players? Let's moan like Rooney and kick out like Roy Keane, or fall to the ground in mock agony like cheating Suarez. No, Mancini is right to tell players not to besiege referees and yell at them. We're Manchester City, we do what's right.

[feedthegreek]

mancini cant win if he sticks up for us he gets slated if he says nothing nothing will change, 1things for sure weve gotta forget about last sunday or it will wreck our season, the press were asking questions about vinnies tackle yesterday at city press conference they would not have dared to ask ferguson thats the difference, you could see mancini was gutted about it but if he tells the truth he just gets criticised, this morning is mancini losing it are city cracking up have they got the bottle, it makes you want to throw up.
while ferguson sits there laughing ,the most undeserving knight of the realm in modern day history.

[guv111]

Obviously moaning and acting like a pack of wolves around the referee is the way to go. It gets opponents sent off and influences many borderline decisions. It probably wins you quite a few league titles over the years too, especially when only a few points are between teams in May.

[Feed The Goat]

When I said this to roger last night I didn't mean we should be surrounding the ref or waving imaginary cards. But we generally don't seem to appeal. Micah got twatted on Sunday he hit the deck and waited for it to be picked up on by the officials that's all well and good however if it was Gerrard who got decked like That he or a team mate would make sure the officials new about it.

We are to honest on the pitch and off it. Why hasn't the club made a complaint about the elbow we just let it slide and hope somebody takes our side.

[ronk]

It's a long term project. It'll hurt us a little in the short term, but it will change over time.

Eventually it'll be a benefit on the pitch, but the biggest benefit will be off the pitch. Most people dislike those antics and we'll grow our support far more effectively.

[paddyblue]

dalglish was asked about the johnson tackle on sky,after a few seconds silence he said "did'nt see it"

[SteveHPage]

It's a bad sign when people are saying City players should show "more venom" in their responses to referees. I do not want to see City players surrounding the ref and screaming at him. Yet some on here want "more venom.' Look at that word! More poison? That's waht it means. Well, why stop there, why not put more venom into tackles, too, and cripple a few opposition players? Let's moan like Rooney and kick out like Roy Keane, or fall to the ground in mock agony like cheating Suarez. No, Mancini is right to tell players not to besiege referees and yell at them. We're Manchester City, we do what's right.

Wholeheartedly agree here pal.

Rags and scousers and the like go on about 'showing class' in their behaviour etc, yet display anything but this by surrounding the ref and whinging and moaning about any decision they don't get.

If we are going to win the league this year, I'd rather do that by playing hood football and displaying honesty and integrity on the pitch and respecting the ref. Now that's 'showing class'.

[DoomMerchant]

i like how we comport ourselves on the pitch.

Ultimately, refs in any sport give big teams/big players more/better calls. it's just somehow human nature for 80% of referees out there. It happens in basketball consistently with great scoring players, in American pigskin with great receivers, and it will happen in football with big clubs and players at their clubs getting the benefit of the doubt. Us "lobbying" to get the same kind of treatment is crass and bullshit.

The problem i think we have as fans is that little "edge" I'm talking about that's warranted, rightly or not, to certain players and certain clubs, seems way way way more over the top and in our faces as we ascend the table and look to win things. Saying that it seems like "everyone's against us" is actually really true. It's like the boxing adage that "you have to beat the champ"...

we just need to keep our wits about us, focus on the football, get the tactics right and drive through. Easier said than done, but let our boots do the talking and fuck off all these decisions and cards and shit. Things have happened. We're bigger than them. That's the kind of dressing room siege shit that if Mancini plays his cards right will lock the title up for us if he gets in these guys ears properly. I'm sure he's using the last week as a lesson and an advantage for us.

[john68]

Totally agree Dooomie.
But if we need to sign a moaner, I can think of no better than our own Carl...I'd play him in a man to man marking role on the ref.
Should do the job nicely.

[Hazy2]

Moaning no, managing our interests during the game is essential to get a fair shake. Rooney worked the ref, Carragher came on and booted Nasri and managed 1 min of running rings around Mason. Running away coming back Without management skills from players your team gets fucked over and the other team like the rags crank up the pressure on all 4 offcials. Jose brought to a new level at Chelsea, we need certain decisions to win a league, what is wrong with that. Johnson two footed and 5 dives which no one mentions, Gerrard last 3 mins falls as though shot. Milner laughed at him we lose 1-0 scousers managed the game.

[Rag_hater]

All this stuff about keeping quiet to show class is wrong.
When the ref or the linesman gets something wrong our players should let them know as vocally as is within the rules and if that means shouting at the fuckers then so be it.
If our players had shouted at Foy the other day maybe we would have got one of them fuckers sent off instead of being classy and quite.

[DoomMerchant]

All this stuff about keeping quiet to show class is wrong.
When the ref or the linesman gets something wrong our players should let them know as vocally as is within the rules and if that means shouting at the fuckers then so be it.
If our players had shouted at Foy the other day maybe we would have got one of them fuckers sent off instead of being classy and quite.

in a word, fuckoff

cheers