Onwards and upwards again

[john68]

Just a point for consideration about last night...Take the best three players from any team in the Prem espoecially in such crucial and central positions and would you really expect them to survive at this level.

With Kompany, Silva and Yaya out Liverpool got a lucky break and then parked the bus. LIVERPOOL PARKED THE BUS....Now when have you ever been able to say that previously. That says a lot about their fear of us.

We know what we have to do at their middin. we have to attack. That decision has already been made for us. But how do they approach the game athome? Do they sit back and try and hang on for thefull game....risskeeeee! Or do they try and attack us and gamble that we don't slide through the gaps they leave.

1-0 is a very dodgy lead to have against City, especially if Silva is fit.

[Bridge'srightfoot]

Just a point for consideration about last night...Take the best three players from any team in the Prem espoecially in such crucial and central positions and would you really expect them to survive at this level.

With Kompany, Silva and Yaya out Liverpool got a lucky break and then parked the bus. LIVERPOOL PARKED THE BUS....Now when have you ever been able to say that previously. That says a lot about their fear of us.

We know what we have to do at their middin. we have to attack. That decision has already been made for us. But how do they approach the game athome? Do they sit back and try and hang on for thefull game....risskeeeee! Or do they try and attack us and gamble that we don't slide through the gaps they leave.

1-0 is a very dodgy lead to have against City, especially if Silva is fit.

They parked the bus? In the second half yes but in the first half they were by far the better, more ambitous side and we're grateful to Hart for keeping us in the tie.
They were also missing Suarez, who although a cunt is a brilliant player.

[Ted Hughes]

Just a point for consideration about last night...Take the best three players from any team in the Prem espoecially in such crucial and central positions and would you really expect them to survive at this level.

With Kompany, Silva and Yaya out Liverpool got a lucky break and then parked the bus. LIVERPOOL PARKED THE BUS....Now when have you ever been able to say that previously. That says a lot about their fear of us.

We know what we have to do at their middin. we have to attack. That decision has already been made for us. But how do they approach the game athome? Do they sit back and try and hang on for thefull game....risskeeeee! Or do they try and attack us and gamble that we don't slide through the gaps they leave.

1-0 is a very dodgy lead to have against City, especially if Silva is fit.

They parked the bus? In the second half yes but in the first half they were by far the better, more ambitous side and we're grateful to Hart for keeping us in the tie.
They were also missing Suarez, who although a cunt is a brilliant player.

Fair comment on Suarez but for all our poor performance 1st half, Liverpool created absolutely nothing apart from a couple of routine long shots & two dreadful mistakes by Savic, who ordinarily wouldn't have been playing. I haven't seen City play that badly for a long long time (Anfield last year maybe) & still Liverpool created nothing.

[Bridge'srightfoot]

Just a point for consideration about last night...Take the best three players from any team in the Prem espoecially in such crucial and central positions and would you really expect them to survive at this level.

With Kompany, Silva and Yaya out Liverpool got a lucky break and then parked the bus. LIVERPOOL PARKED THE BUS....Now when have you ever been able to say that previously. That says a lot about their fear of us.

We know what we have to do at their middin. we have to attack. That decision has already been made for us. But how do they approach the game athome? Do they sit back and try and hang on for thefull game....risskeeeee! Or do they try and attack us and gamble that we don't slide through the gaps they leave.

1-0 is a very dodgy lead to have against City, especially if Silva is fit.

They parked the bus? In the second half yes but in the first half they were by far the better, more ambitous side and we're grateful to Hart for keeping us in the tie.
They were also missing Suarez, who although a cunt is a brilliant player.

Fair comment on Suarez but for all our poor performance 1st half, Liverpool created absolutely nothing apart from a couple of routine long shots & two dreadful mistakes by Savic, who ordinarily wouldn't have been playing. I haven't seen City play that badly for a long long time (Anfield last year maybe) & still Liverpool created nothing.

You're right I suppose but they certainly wanted it more and were the more ambitious side in the first half. Not fair to say they came to park the bus.

[Ted Hughes]

Just a point for consideration about last night...Take the best three players from any team in the Prem espoecially in such crucial and central positions and would you really expect them to survive at this level.

With Kompany, Silva and Yaya out Liverpool got a lucky break and then parked the bus. LIVERPOOL PARKED THE BUS....Now when have you ever been able to say that previously. That says a lot about their fear of us.

We know what we have to do at their middin. we have to attack. That decision has already been made for us. But how do they approach the game athome? Do they sit back and try and hang on for thefull game....risskeeeee! Or do they try and attack us and gamble that we don't slide through the gaps they leave.

1-0 is a very dodgy lead to have against City, especially if Silva is fit.

They parked the bus? In the second half yes but in the first half they were by far the better, more ambitous side and we're grateful to Hart for keeping us in the tie.
They were also missing Suarez, who although a cunt is a brilliant player.

Fair comment on Suarez but for all our poor performance 1st half, Liverpool created absolutely nothing apart from a couple of routine long shots & two dreadful mistakes by Savic, who ordinarily wouldn't have been playing. I haven't seen City play that badly for a long long time (Anfield last year maybe) & still Liverpool created nothing.

You're right I suppose but they certainly wanted it more and were the more ambitious side in the first half. Not fair to say they came to park the bus.

I think it's fair to say they parked it once we got our act together though but imo it wasn't by choice, it was simply that we suddenly started playing something akin to the real pass & move City, rather than the knackered or preoccupied version they have been lucky enough to encounter so far. I recon if the real City turns up at Anfield, we will give them the biggest fucking thrashing they've had there for years. It depends on how serious we are & what the ref decides to do to us.

[mr_nool]

Just a point for consideration about last night...Take the best three players from any team in the Prem espoecially in such crucial and central positions and would you really expect them to survive at this level.

With Kompany, Silva and Yaya out Liverpool got a lucky break and then parked the bus. LIVERPOOL PARKED THE BUS....Now when have you ever been able to say that previously. That says a lot about their fear of us.

We know what we have to do at their middin. we have to attack. That decision has already been made for us. But how do they approach the game athome? Do they sit back and try and hang on for thefull game....risskeeeee! Or do they try and attack us and gamble that we don't slide through the gaps they leave.

1-0 is a very dodgy lead to have against City, especially if Silva is fit.

They parked the bus? In the second half yes but in the first half they were by far the better, more ambitous side and we're grateful to Hart for keeping us in the tie.
They were also missing Suarez, who although a cunt is a brilliant player.

Fair comment on Suarez but for all our poor performance 1st half, Liverpool created absolutely nothing apart from a couple of routine long shots & two dreadful mistakes by Savic, who ordinarily wouldn't have been playing. I haven't seen City play that badly for a long long time (Anfield last year maybe) & still Liverpool created nothing.

You're right I suppose but they certainly wanted it more and were the more ambitious side in the first half. Not fair to say they came to park the bus.

I think it's fair to say they parked it once we got our act together though but imo it wasn't by choice, it was simply that we suddenly started playing something akin to the real pass & move City, rather than the knackered or preoccupied version they have been lucky enough to encounter so far.[highlight]I recon if the real City turns up at Anfield, we will give them the biggest fucking thrashing they've had there for years. It depends on how serious we are & what the ref decides to do to us.[/highlight]

Imo they did purposely park the bus from the off in the second half. They had 1-0, were a bit worried because we got our game going the last five of the first half with Nasri on, and decided to close the game.

I very much agree with the highlighted part, though. If we play like we could/should, we will hammer them.

[Bridge'srightfoot]

The side we put out still should of won though. It wasn't the quality of the players we were lacking, it really did seem to me that they were unmotivated and not really arsed, especially in that first half. We played like it was a pre season, there was just no desire.

[john68]

The side we put out still should of won though. It wasn't the quality of the players we were lacking, it really did seem to me that they were unmotivated and not really arsed, especially in that first half. We played like it was a pre season, there was just no desire.

Mancini built this side on the base of a concrete defense. Kompany is crucial in that and he was missing, replaced by Savic, who everyone agrees is nowhere near Kompany;s standard.
In front of that concrete defense, he has Tata who further defends that defense but also has the instruction, the ability and the experience to go forward or provide an outlet to our more creative players. Like Vinny, Yaya is crucial in that role too.
In front of all of that we usually have Silva, who receives the ball and dictates the direction of play and the strategy the forwards are going to use to attack. David Silva, like the other two is crucial in that role.

The whole of our tactics and strategy is dependent on those three doing their job. Without them, the other players csan'y operate to maximum efficiency. You criticise our team yet did you really and honestly expect we would rip Liverpool apart? The scousers must have thought it was their birthday when they saw those players missing.

In the 2nd half, that encumbered City team took the game to Liverpool and we created several chance to win the game, so there wasn't a lot wrong with the strategy. Remember toothatLiverpool also had the great boost odf a returned gerard that opened up possibilities for them.

I am under no illusion that we have a hard job at Anfiels but we sill have the quality to turn this around.

[Bridge'srightfoot]

The side we put out still should of won though. It wasn't the quality of the players we were lacking, it really did seem to me that they were unmotivated and not really arsed, especially in that first half. We played like it was a pre season, there was just no desire.

Mancini built this side on the base of a concrete defense. Kompany is crucial in that and he was missing, replaced by Savic, who everyone agrees is nowhere near Kompany;s standard.
In front of that concrete defense, he has Tata who further defends that defense but also has the instruction, the ability and the experience to go forward or provide an outlet to our more creative players. Like Vinny, Yaya is crucial in that role too.
In front of all of that we usually have Silva, who receives the ball and dictates the direction of play and the strategy the forwards are going to use to attack. David Silva, like the other two is crucial in that role.

The whole of our tactics and strategy is dependent on those three doing their job. Without them, the other players csan'y operate to maximum efficiency. You criticise our team yet did you really and honestly expect we would rip Liverpool apart? The scousers must have thought it was their birthday when they saw those players missing.

In the 2nd half, that encumbered City team took the game to Liverpool and we created several chance to win the game, so there wasn't a lot wrong with the strategy. Remember toothatLiverpool also had the great boost odf a returned gerard that opened up possibilities for them.

I am under no illusion that we have a hard job at Anfiels but we sill have the quality to turn this around.

But if we want to be a great team, we can't be so reliant on 2/3 players that when they're missing we play like a championship side.
Yes all three are huge players but i stand by the point the team put out should of won that game. We just didn't turn up.

[john68]

Just for the record, name me a team that performs to its best without their three most crucial players.

You seem to think that this present City team is the finished article. I have said this many many times previously...you don't build a top side in a couple of years. It took the rags almost 7 years before they got close to where we are now. Liverpool havebeen spending money for years to develop into what they are and they're still behind us..as are Chelsea, the rags, Arsenal and the rest of the fuckin Prem.

Since 2 years ago, our playing staff has changed massively...do you think that this present team won't have changed and improved even further by next year?

Did you really think that you could build a team to carry all before it, all of the time, with no bad patches or blips...all in a couple of seasons? Never been done before, so why now?

[Bridge'srightfoot]

Just for the record, name me a team that performs to its best without their three most crucial players.

You seem to think that this present City team is the finished article. I have said this many many times previously...you don't build a top side in a couple of years. It took the rags almost 7 years before they got close to where we are now. Liverpool havebeen spending money for years to develop into what they are and they're still behind us..as are Chelsea, the rags, Arsenal and the rest of the fuckin Prem.

Since 2 years ago, our playing staff has changed massively...do you think that this present team won't have changed and improved even further by next year?

Did you really think that you could build a team to carry all before it, all of the time, with no bad patches or blips...all in a couple of seasons? Never been done before, so why now?

I never said that we had to perform to our best but we really were dreadful. We still should of won that game.
It was a lack of urgency and effort.

[john68]

That speed of pasing we have had for a lot of the season comes from knowledge, understanding and experience.
Knowing where a player is going to be, knowing where a player passes the ball. understanding the foibles, strengths and weaknesses of the other players and the experience of what usually happens, so a player can act instinctively. When all that comes together it makes for fine football and we have sen that often this season.
Against Liverpool, we took the heart out of City, like having a car with no steering wheel. It caused our play to stutter and sometimes stop. In the 2nd half it started to come together more.

Think back to last season. At the start we were very up and down.Sometimes awesome sometimes poor. As the season went and they learnt to play together we got better and it showed.
When the weather is fine and all is dandy, City are wonderful, we know that but we still have yet to form a team that plays in all conditions. A team that can answer the questions even before they are asked. Give it a little time and show a bit more patience.
We have come a very long way in a very short time. Probably travelled further and faster than any other team of recent years.

[zuricity]

Just for the record, name me a team that performs to its best without their three most crucial players.

You seem to think that this present City team is the finished article. I have said this many many times previously...you don't build a top side in a couple of years. It took the rags almost 7 years before they got close to where we are now. Liverpool havebeen spending money for years to develop into what they are and they're still behind us..as are Chelsea, the rags, Arsenal and the rest of the fuckin Prem.

Since 2 years ago, our playing staff has changed massively...do you think that this present team won't have changed and improved even further by next year?

Did you really think that you could build a team to carry all before it, all of the time, with no bad patches or blips...all in a couple of seasons? Never been done before, so why now?

You are spot on there John. This team will develop again. Clearly Roberto is not happy with players like Kolarov, his reaction to the stupid shot at goal on wednesday showed this. At some stage you have to commit to the squad you have got for the season. So , although I try to get behind Kolarov, he does make me squirm a bit with his passing right now. His corners are pretty pathetic. I think I can do better and I don't have as much power in my left peg anymore. I can still deliver a precise corner. Alexandar though, he is just not consistent enough with his passing/ crossing and it must improve.

So I could imagine City will look for another youngster in the summer to add to Milner, possibly become Barry's understudy .

Although in saying that, this team is gelling quite nicely so far, next season we wil be seriously good. Even with the same squad, no doubt at all about that...

[Bridge'srightfoot]

That speed of pasing we have had for a lot of the season comes from knowledge, understanding and experience.
Knowing where a player is going to be, knowing where a player passes the ball. understanding the foibles, strengths and weaknesses of the other players and the experience of what usually happens, so a player can act instinctively. When all that comes together it makes for fine football and we have sen that often this season.
Against Liverpool, we took the heart out of City, like having a car with no steering wheel. It caused our play to stutter and sometimes stop. In the 2nd half it started to come together more.

Think back to last season. At the start we were very up and down.Sometimes awesome sometimes poor. As the season went and they learnt to play together we got better and it showed.
When the weather is fine and all is dandy, City are wonderful, we know that but we still have yet to form a team that plays in all conditions. A team that can answer the questions even before they are asked. Give it a little time and show a bit more patience.
We have come a very long way in a very short time. Probably travelled further and faster than any other team of recent years.

What it showed was that we have no plan b. That's why I'm so insistent we need some wide players. Sometimes when you can't break a team down your best bet is to get the ball out wide and flood the box.
We can't just rely on passing a team to death. You said we had several chances to win the game? Where were they, one or two good chances and a couple of half chances here and there but we never once had them on the rails.

[john68]

Let's play tactics. Bit I thought possibly Zurich had answered your query about wide men the other night.
So we play 2 wide men who chase down the chalk and bang the ball into a box flooded by City players.
1...The box was already flooded by a massed Liverpool defense
2...Which particular wide men would you have played? Clichy and Micah are strategically the players you are asking for and Johnno moves inwards to increase numbers in the box.
3...How many players do you suggest that City use to dash forward and flood the box? Consider that Liverpool already have 10 players in there.
4...Do you seriously consider that our chances of scoring would have been increased by banging lottery balls in to the middle against a massed defense...rather than attempting to do what has successfully taken us to the top of the League, by retaining the ball and trying to force an opening by skilland Guile. Something that Doug reportson regualrly we practise at training.
5...Aswe wereon;ly one goal down, how many converted chances do you reckon we'd have needed to win the game?...TWO...I can think that Milner and Aguerro will be both moaning about the chances they missed that they should have scored.
6...I love the"on the rails" bit. We were playing Liverpool with a returned Gerard, in the semi final of a cup. not the local primary school in a school sports. It would have been a hard game with our best team out. Please show them some repect. I never expected that we would have had them on the rails at any time (maybe hoped we might).Even less chance of that with three star players out.

Your expectations seem quite unreal considering the time scale....but never fear, we are getting ther, we will get ther...but maybe it'll take a bit longer than you originally thought.

[Bridge'srightfoot]

United's first against us. Simply getting the ball out wide and crossing it into the box. So simple, so effective. When you play with wide players it draws defenders out the box, allowing more space.

[john68]

United's first against us. Simply getting the ball out wide and crossing it into the box. So simple, so effective. When you play with wide players it draws defenders out the box, allowing more space.

It draws nobody anywhere when they are instructed not to move. In the 2nd half of thederby, we let the rags come on to us. Watch that again Mate. It was a lesson in keeping a defensive shape and not being drawn out. Not until we got the ball and we decided to break out.
Liverpool played a similar game the other night. Sat there and sat there and sat there...then sat there some more.

I would be interested in your answers to some of my previous questions mate.

[Bridge'srightfoot]

Let's play tactics. Bit I thought possibly Zurich had answered your query about wide men the other night.
So we play 2 wide men who chase down the chalk and bang the ball into a box flooded by City players.
1...The box was already flooded by a massed Liverpool defense
2...Which particular wide men would you have played? Clichy and Micah are strategically the players you are asking for and Johnno moves inwards to increase numbers in the box.
3...How many players do you suggest that City use to dash forward and flood the box? Consider that Liverpool already have 10 players in there.
4...Do you seriously consider that our chances of scoring would have been increased by banging lottery balls in to the middle against a massed defense...rather than attempting to do what has successfully taken us to the top of the League, by retaining the ball and trying to force an opening by skilland Guile. Something that Doug reportson regualrly we practise at training.
5...Aswe wereon;ly one goal down, how many converted chances do you reckon we'd have needed to win the game?...TWO...I can think that Milner and Aguerro will be both moaning about the chances they missed that they should have scored.
6...I love the"on the rails" bit. We were playing Liverpool with a returned Gerard, in the semi final of a cup. not the local primary school in a school sports. It would have been a hard game with our best team out. Please show them some repect. I never expected that we would have had them on the rails at any time (maybe hoped we might).Even less chance of that with three star players out.

Your expectations seem quite unreal considering the time scale....but never fear, we are getting ther, we will get ther...but maybe it'll take a bit longer than you originally thought.

1.) Because everything was so central. When we only attack through the middle they can put all their defence there. Playing wingers at least means some defenders will be forced out on to the wing.. Ie not in the box
2.) We don't have any quality wingers. Needs to be adressed. Clichy's crossing is not great and Micah is great at picking out players but not so great at whipping a ball in.
3.) As many as it takes.
4.) Well did our tactics work? No. Needed to try something else.
5.) They had as many chances.
6.) Hard game or not, our performance was pathetic.

[john68]

Both Clichy and Micah went wide.
We created several chances, 2 of which should have been converted. I think we had 5/6 chances in the 2nd half
Do you think that reverting to a lottery against a packed defence would have worked any better. None of our corners seemed to do much.
I can't think of any real chances they created in the 2nd half, they were too busy parking their bus.
Whatever your opinion of our performance, it was unrealistic to consider we would ever have them on the rails.

I think Mancini put it quite succinctly when he said they created nothing in the 2nd half, we did create enough chances but failed to score from them. A fualt of finishing not of our open play. Which we dominated in the 2nd half. (though they did help us by sitting so deep)