Paranoia and Conspiracy Theories

[Grob]

I dont think theres a conspricy against us. United have a reputation that has intimidated officials for years. They rarely get bad calls made against them and 8 or 9 times out of 10, that 50/50 decision will go their way. Same with Liverpool, primarily at Anfield.

Crap I know but thats how it is

[london blue 2]

I've signed up for my conspiracy against City badge, delivery is imminent.

[john68]

I don't suppose that there is any conspiracy aimed particularly at us. I don't suppose it works like that. Keeping us down makes no sense unless there was profit for someone, somewhere.
I think any conspiracy or group of conspiracies would be solely aimed at maximising or gaining profit from areas that any conspirators had a vested interest. I can also see that any interested party or vested interest would seek to defend what they already had.

Considering the sums, the already rock solid organisation of the old G14 group, their stated aims, their political power, I can see that group being scared to death of the new money clubs nosing their way into the trough they have built.

City would seem to be the leading club in a whole group of "New Money" clubs that threaten the finances of the old G14. I can speculate that had we been the only club, eventually, they may have allowed us into the club. After years of rebuffing Chelsea, the old order did offer an invitation to them, just prior to the G14 being publically disbanded.

We are leading a pack and I think it is the pack that the G14 are defending themselves against. As the leading club of that pack, weareseenas the biggest threat, (but not the sole one).

It will be interesting to see how they deal with PSG, who are one of their own but also now fall into the cayegory of a new money club. They can hardly deal with them inany way differently to how they deal with us.

[john68]

I have spent quite a long time digging around various reports etc regarding the old G14/UeFA and have until now ignored any other areas. Maybe it was the onset of the FFp that demanded that focus.
Whilst digging about, I have found other areas that could do with a good coat of digging around.

I think that the global betting industry plays a part but is a wholly unconnected area of football corruption. Refereeing patterns also needs a good looking at.

If anyone can help with any websites that they know records refereeing etc, could they let me know Ta.

[PeterParker]

I think that the global betting industry plays a part but is a wholly unconnected area of football corruption. Refereeing patterns also needs a good looking at.

There was a book a while back, written by Declan Hill and was called "The Fix". He was an undercover reporter that went in countries like Italy, were the betting industry was top and as a reader you would had been shocked of what was showed there.
The main thing is this, 70 % of European football has this problems with game fixing and i am talking about European football, because international football was always known for this dark side. Asia, South America, Africa, all were highly involved in match fixing at the most important levels in there. Going back to Europe, Poland, Italy, Greece, Turkey were involved in high scandals lately and important ex-footballers name came up on the list. (Signori, Doni, Massielo, Hakan Sas, etc). Even the German football had this problems at the start of the 2000s, when refs were involved in such cases.
Imho, even the English league is involved in this, but not as often as in other countries.

If you recall, a couple of weeks/months ago was an article about the president of the football federation in China, who said he received money for the national team to lose a game, a friendly one, with United, a while back. He was arrested and now there is a process of changing the system there.

All in all, there are heavy cash involved in Premier League and most of the bids are in for United winning the league, although they could win a shit load more if we win the title.

Saddly, this is the main thing behind football in these days, and this goes international.

[Crossie]

The thing about this sky 4 thing is that City can be bigger than 3 of those 4 clubs in the next few years.

European success, stadium expansion, we will eclipse Chelsea easily, Arsenal and then Liverpool. I dont think we will ever have more world wide fans than scum, and to be honest it would take 25 years to catch up with there silverware.

The point being, if Sky did have an agenda, they are fools because we can offer more to their viewing figures than those 3 other teams if you think about it long term. We will sign the best players and play the best football in the country for the next 10 years atleast.

Even if the Mr Mansor left tomorrow, the investment in the playing staff alone has been so huge, that we could live off the back of that for another 10 years.

[Beefymcfc]

The thing about this sky 4 thing is that City can be bigger than 3 of those 4 clubs in the next few years.

European success, stadium expansion, we will eclipse Chelsea easily, Arsenal and then Liverpool. I dont think we will ever have more world wide fans than scum, and to be honest it would take 25 years to catch up with there silverware.

The point being, if Sky did have an agenda, they are fools because we can offer more to their viewing figures than those 3 other teams if you think about it long term. We will sign the best players and play the best football in the country for the next 10 years atleast.

Even if the Mr Mansor left tomorrow, the investment in the playing staff alone has been so huge, that we could live off the back of that for another 10 years.

Sky aren't daft mate, just look at how many times we have been on lately. Our marketable value is no way near what the old Sky 4 is and United eclipse any of them. The problem they have got is that we have arrived too quickly which means they have had to change things significantly to ensure the cash-cow, that is United, are still a market force. You probably heard Tyler yesterday screaming to high heaven and all the Sky loons telling us how they caught up, never was it mentioned that they have a poor defence and let in 3 goals. That was down to Taggart to let us know it was 2 points dropped, most probably reminding Sky of their obligations.

Soon we will become one of the Sky elite, they know they can't carry on with these silly portrayals, but it won't happen yet. If we do manage to win this year, against all the odds, then they'll still carry it on with the marketing aimed at United regaining their Premier League crown and it won't change unless they seriously fall apart.

The big bonus for them is the Manchester rivalry, being able to sell to the world a rivalry that can compete with the Spanish and Italian leagues. Forget the Dippers, Chelsea and Arsenal, the Manchester thing is something that can make them a fortune for years to come. Maybe, just maybe this is what the Sheikh was banking on and going up against the biggest in the Prem would bring them the recognition that they've spent so much to attain.

[mcfc1632]

I have stated this previously and make no apology for doing so again...IN 2006, THE GLOBAL INCOME FROM FOOTBALL WAS OVER $500Bn. God only knows what that figure is now and if any of our financial wizards can dig it out, I'll be grateful.

Please remember that the quoted figure doesn't include any money earned by outside business through football, eg Stadia construction, catering, television, written media, travel companies, mechandisers, marketeers, advertising companies ticket agencies...etc...the list could be endless.

Add to that the sums earned by agents and shadt dealers who operate on the periphery of the game....and...my brain ceases to work after a certain total of zeros on the end of a number but the total must be at the very top end of beyond astronomical.

That is a lot of pies for a lot of fingers....and anyone who thinks that lot is squeaky clean is either naive beyond redemption or called Rag Hater.

I have no difficulty in believing the game is riddled by corruption,I do however believe that it is in no way directed at us which is how the argument started.We are just victims of a bigger picture and if we want to compete we have to accept thats the way things are.
People are hoping we are in some sort of scandel like Italy I think lessons have been learned from that and I think it is on a much more personnel basis the days of clubs getting away with corruption are over.

I am not sure that people's views on here are actually that far apart. For some it feels so personal at the moment because we seem to be on the sharp end of the bias - I wonder if Newcastle fans felt the same happened to them in the infamous "...I would love it..." season.

What I see to be 'fact' though is that there is indeed a ingrained level of 'protected self-interest' across the authorities that it is indeed 'systemic bias' - and certainly influenced by the amounts of $$$$$s involved in the game.

The 'product' has become symbolised by some particular brands - Barca, RM, BM in particular - and of course in England the scum. Not that many years ago it was wider-spread - i.e. the G14 clubs, although some of these are now little more than 'hangers-on' to the residual big names.

The self-interest was most clearly demonstrated in the way UeFA responded to the break-away league - by totally bolloxing the existing European competitions to establish a structure that essentially established a 'back-door' European league with the ever-increasing revenue streams such that the G14 felt satisfied. Then there was the creation of the PL etc.

What has happened since has been (IMO) a pervading level of subliminal bias and favouritism - as well as some more direct bias. If you get years and years of everyone being told that the scum are the leading light the best thing etc etc. If you get years and years of the little influences of baconface complaining about referees, getting special treatment in the FA cup and the establishing of fixture lists etc etc. Years and years where they get special treatment, on the pitch, in the referees minds, in the FA decisions etc – well everyone starts to toe the line.

If referees start to feel that falling foul of baconface will mean being overlooked for the big games, if FA administrators start to feel the same them people start to show favour and then it snowballs and becomes systemic - I wonder when the lino that he commented upon yesterday will next be involved in a scum game??

Rag-Hater - you see it as just general stuff - others think it is more explicit - for me I am more worried because I think it is totally fucking systemic and being established over so long a period perhaps it is too ingrained to ever be changed.

Imagine if Barca, RM threatened Platini with a breakaway - imagine if the scum started to threaten the PL etc etc - action would be taken.

Only one example of that is the FFPR - carefully crafted to not impinge on these clubs but to be against the Malagas, PSGs and yes CITYs type clubs of Europe . Hopefully we have got through before the bar has come down but at a stroke there will be no such opportunity for Everton, Villa etc - they are doomed to forever play in a 2nd tier league (which is actually what the PL and other leagues are below the CL qualifying places) - until the ever-growing beasts that are these 'leading' clubs demand even more money to feed their growth and they then force through a breakaway league with revised TV rights.

It is sickening that all this is done under the banner of 'protecting clubs' - fucking total fabrication - FFPR will do fuck all to stop another Portsmouth - it is designed to reassure the old G14 clubs that their place in the CL trough will not be threatened and therefore prevent a renewed threat of a breakaway.

The bias might be evidenced as just lots and lots of small things - but added together it is a massive level of favouritism that feels to a lot of people like conspiracy – even it is subliminal.

[john68]

Crossie,
TBH Mate, despite trawling through tons of stuff, Sky TV don't seem to be players in any of this. Maybe they don't have to be. Maybe they can simply sit on the side and buy into whatever they feel is beneficial to them at any time. I think that the same probably applies to the other TV companies too.

Without checking their viewing and sales figures from their televised games, I wouldn't know. I would hazard to guess that at present, those figures would show a better total return from; the rags, Arsenal, Liverpool and maybe Chelsea than they do for City or even Spurs. I suppose that Sky would just tailor their coverage to fit their audiences needs. I also suppose that should City and Spurs rise in popularity and those figures change, then Sky's tailoring would reflect that.

At the very top end, where the big money lies for the clubs, The old G14 (and I think they need some clarification), their power and anbitition are the main worries for City and possibly football.

I am now beginning to suspect that there is more than several tons of shit surrounding the illegal gambling industry that has an effect on our game, more than I would have ever thought.

[Rag_hater]

I have stated this previously and make no apology for doing so again...IN 2006, THE GLOBAL INCOME FROM FOOTBALL WAS OVER $500Bn. God only knows what that figure is now and if any of our financial wizards can dig it out, I'll be grateful.

Please remember that the quoted figure doesn't include any money earned by outside business through football, eg Stadia construction, catering, television, written media, travel companies, mechandisers, marketeers, advertising companies ticket agencies...etc...the list could be endless.

Add to that the sums earned by agents and shadt dealers who operate on the periphery of the game....and...my brain ceases to work after a certain total of zeros on the end of a number but the total must be at the very top end of beyond astronomical.

That is a lot of pies for a lot of fingers....and anyone who thinks that lot is squeaky clean is either naive beyond redemption or called Rag Hater.

I have no difficulty in believing the game is riddled by corruption,I do however believe that it is in no way directed at us which is how the argument started.We are just victims of a bigger picture and if we want to compete we have to accept thats the way things are.
People are hoping we are in some sort of scandel like Italy I think lessons have been learned from that and I think it is on a much more personnel basis the days of clubs getting away with corruption are over.

I am not sure that people's views on here are actually that far apart. For some it feels so personal at the moment because we seem to be on the sharp end of the bias - I wonder if Newcastle fans felt the same happened to them in the infamous "...I would love it..." season.

What I see to be 'fact' though is that there is indeed a ingrained level of 'protected self-interest' across the authorities that it is indeed 'systemic bias' - and certainly influenced by the amounts of $$$$$s involved in the game.

The 'product' has become symbolised by some particular brands - Barca, RM, BM in particular - and of course in England the scum. Not that many years ago it was wider-spread - i.e. the G14 clubs, although some of these are now little more than 'hangers-on' to the residual big names.

The self-interest was most clearly demonstrated in the way UeFA responded to the break-away league - by totally bolloxing the existing European competitions to establish a structure that essentially established a 'back-door' European league with the ever-increasing revenue streams such that the G14 felt satisfied. Then there was the creation of the PL etc.

What has happened since has been (IMO) a pervading level of subliminal bias and favouritism - as well as some more direct bias. If you get years and years of everyone being told that the scum are the leading light the best thing etc etc. If you get years and years of the little influences of baconface complaining about referees, getting special treatment in the FA cup and the establishing of fixture lists etc etc. Years and years where they get special treatment, on the pitch, in the referees minds, in the FA decisions etc – well everyone starts to toe the line.

If referees start to feel that falling foul of baconface will mean being overlooked for the big games, if FA administrators start to feel the same them people start to show favour and then it snowballs and becomes systemic - I wonder when the lino that he commented upon yesterday will next be involved in a scum game??

Rag-Hater - you see it as just general stuff - others think it is more explicit - for me I am more worried because I think it is totally fucking systemic and being established over so long a period perhaps it is too ingrained to ever be changed.

Imagine if Barca, RM threatened Platini with a breakaway - imagine if the scum started to threaten the PL etc etc - action would be taken.

Only one example of that is the FFPR - carefully crafted to not impinge on these clubs but to be against the Malagas, PSGs and yes CITYs type clubs of Europe . Hopefully we have got through before the bar has come down but at a stroke there will be no such opportunity for Everton, Villa etc - they are doomed to forever play in a 2nd tie league (which is actually what the PL and other leagues are below the CL qualifying places) - until the ever-growing beasts that are these 'leading' clubs demand even more money to feed their growth and they then force through a breakaway league with revised TV rights.

It is sickening that all this is done under the banner of 'protecting clubs' - fucking total fabrication - FFPR will do fuck all to stop another Portsmouth - it is designed to reassure the old G14 clubs that their place in the CL trough will not be threatened and therefore prevent a renewed threat of a breakaway.

The bias might be evidenced as just lots and lots of small things - but added together it is a massive level of favouritism that feels to a lot of people like conspiracy – even it is subliminal.

Your dislike of them comes across in that one.

[Lev Bronstein]

John, I don't think you can let Sky off so easily, they are the major paymasters of the PL after all. In addition, as the major media outlet for football their attitude can set the tone. A simple example is the number of times Mario's "kick" was repeated, disected and judged compared to other incidents. It became the major talking point for days. My point is that Sky set the agenda.

(When we get video technology to "help" referees, I wonder whose cameras will be used?)

They also play a major part in building the "common sense" view. One example is that the rags play wonderful, freeflowing creative football, the barely concealed notion is that such a style "deserves" to win.

The one that always gets me is that "decisions even themselves out over a season". Oh do they now? Has anyone ever sat down and trawled through the hundreds of games, the thousand of minutes, counting the tens of thousands of incidents to actually see if what they say is remotely true? Have they buggery, yet it doesn't stop the same old crap being churned out and accepted without comment. The point is that no one really knows, but it's accepted as "common sense"

[CityFanFromRome]

The one that always gets me is that "decisions even themselves out over a season". Oh do they now? Has anyone ever sat down and trawled through the hundreds of games, the thousand of minutes, counting the tens of thousands of incidents to actually see if what they say is remotely true? Have they buggery, yet it doesn't stop the same old crap being churned out and accepted without comment. The point is that no one really knows, but it's accepted as "common sense"

IF, and it's a big if, things weren't planned to favour certain teams, then things would really even themselves out over a season, because it would be pure chance that you got a decision against or in favour. But as it is, we all know there's a written play to follow, if not to alter the final outcome of the league, at the very least to keep it tight and interesting till the very end.

[Lev Bronstein]

The one that always gets me is that "decisions even themselves out over a season". Oh do they now? Has anyone ever sat down and trawled through the hundreds of games, the thousand of minutes, counting the tens of thousands of incidents to actually see if what they say is remotely true? Have they buggery, yet it doesn't stop the same old crap being churned out and accepted without comment. The point is that no one really knows, but it's accepted as "common sense"

IF, and it's a big if, things weren't planned to favour certain teams, then things would really even themselves out over a season, because it would be pure chance that you got a decision against or in favour. But as it is, we all know there's a written play to follow, if not to alter the final outcome of the league, at the very least to keep it tight and interesting till the very end.

I don't think they're planned, because I don't think they need to be. There's still that randomness because it's sport. Was it planned that Blackburn would beat them at OT?

It's just that Refs, media etc operate with a set of pre-judgements in their head. A linesman may have a twitchy flag but if we scored 6 goals from long shots there's nowt he could do.

I'm sure that the refs carry pre-judgements about players. Player A is a cheat and dirty: player B is hard but fair.

[carl_feedthegoat]

On Fox sports they were analysing that cunt Webb and the matches he has reffed the Munchens....did you know that in the last 4 games he has refereed them ,he has GIVEN them 4 penalties in their favour and sent off one person from the other team.

More proof that hes a fuckign MUNICH licking cheating bald twunt.

[john68]

Lev,
Mu apologies Mate. You are quite right to point out how Sky's coverage of ceretain incidents whilst ignoring others can and does have a direct influence on setting the agenda. I wholeheartedly agree with you.

At the time of my post, I had just finished exploring the net for info about the G14 and also stuff about refereeing, match fixing etc, and it was that sort of stuff that I was denying Sky had any involvement in. I should have made that clearer.

The picture I am getting as I look through stuff is that there are so many fingers, so many differing agendas in so many different pies.

I am usually quite proud of my cynicism but I have admit that I entered this adventure with far more naivety than I would normally do. My sport corrupt?,,,never. Maybe that is the big problem. Maybe none of us really wants to find the truth or admit that Santa doesn't exist and that all results are not the true outcome of a fair competetive game.

[s1ty m]

This got a yellow last night. Draw your own conclusions.

[zuricity]

Perfectly timed tackle that , what are you on about ? you can see he is touching the ball, whereas Bale isn't.

Who is that on the floor anyway ? Some injured Scouse 1 player ? Isn't it fantastic how their never-say-die attitude shows through ? Can you speed that video up ? it seems to be in freeframe mode :-)

[dick dastardley]

dogleaish was going bonkers saying he didnt touch him!! and if that was mario it would be splashed all over the place, biased beyond belief

[mcfc1632]

I am not sure that people's views on here are actually that far apart. For some it feels so personal at the moment because we seem to be on the sharp end of the bias - I wonder if Newcastle fans felt the same happened to them in the infamous "...I would love it..." season.

What I see to be 'fact' though is that there is indeed a ingrained level of 'protected self-interest' across the authorities that it is indeed 'systemic bias' - and certainly influenced by the amounts of $$$$$s involved in the game.

The 'product' has become symbolised by some particular brands - Barca, RM, BM in particular - and of course in England the scum. Not that many years ago it was wider-spread - i.e. the G14 clubs, although some of these are now little more than 'hangers-on' to the residual big names.

The self-interest was most clearly demonstrated in the way UeFA responded to the break-away league - by totally bolloxing the existing European competitions to establish a structure that essentially established a 'back-door' European league with the ever-increasing revenue streams such that the G14 felt satisfied. Then there was the creation of the PL etc.

What has happened since has been (IMO) a pervading level of subliminal bias and favouritism - as well as some more direct bias. If you get years and years of everyone being told that the scum are the leading light the best thing etc etc. If you get years and years of the little influences of baconface complaining about referees, getting special treatment in the FA cup and the establishing of fixture lists etc etc. Years and years where they get special treatment, on the pitch, in the referees minds, in the FA decisions etc – well everyone starts to toe the line.

If referees start to feel that falling foul of baconface will mean being overlooked for the big games, if FA administrators start to feel the same them people start to show favour and then it snowballs and becomes systemic - I wonder when the lino that he commented upon yesterday will next be involved in a scum game??

Rag-Hater - you see it as just general stuff - others think it is more explicit - for me I am more worried because I think it is totally fucking systemic and being established over so long a period perhaps it is too ingrained to ever be changed.

Imagine if Barca, RM threatened Platini with a breakaway - imagine if the scum started to threaten the PL etc etc - action would be taken.

Only one example of that is the FFPR - carefully crafted to not impinge on these clubs but to be against the Malagas, PSGs and yes CITYs type clubs of Europe . Hopefully we have got through before the bar has come down but at a stroke there will be no such opportunity for Everton, Villa etc - they are doomed to forever play in a 2nd tie league (which is actually what the PL and other leagues are below the CL qualifying places) - until the ever-growing beasts that are these 'leading' clubs demand even more money to feed their growth and they then force through a breakaway league with revised TV rights.

It is sickening that all this is done under the banner of 'protecting clubs' - fucking total fabrication - FFPR will do fuck all to stop another Portsmouth - it is designed to reassure the old G14 clubs that their place in the CL trough will not be threatened and therefore prevent a renewed threat of a breakaway.

The bias might be evidenced as just lots and lots of small things - but added together it is a massive level of favouritism that feels to a lot of people like conspiracy – even it is subliminal.

Your dislike of them comes across in that one.

With a capital fucking 'D' - I admit that my hatred and disgust about any aspect of that filthy organisation seeps 24/7 from my pores!! I am not embarrassed about that - but I still think that I was trying to explain it in a 'relatively calm' manner

[Bianchi on Ice]

switched on the radio this morning and i hear some arsehole listing the stuff that went on in the game last night, noting that no onje was sent off, and then heard him say "..and the game was better for it"...OH REALLY? fine...next time WE play can we have the same viewpoint please?