This 'Terry' Thing?

[Yffi_88]

Terry shouldn't be playing for England full stop. Not because of anything/anyone he has said/done this season or any other season. But because he has had his chance, he has had more than his chance and always came up short. Same as wio, lampard, Gerrard, Ashley cole, shrek, crouch. If the England team we're a prem team they would be in the fucking third division

All proven competition after competition that they aren't good enough as a team and the whole thing needs scrapping along with capello and a new fresh squad set up.

If only anyone had the balls to make it happen.

Start again with a load of under 25s and get them to play together. Fuck how good Wio/Terry/Lamps/Gerrard might be playing, as you said, their chance has been and gone.

Unfortunately, new managers tend to experiment with the youngsters in freindly games but then bottle it as a tournament gets closer and throw all of the above names back into the team. How many times does it have to not work?

[aaron bond]

Terry shouldn't be playing for England full stop. Not because of anything/anyone he has said/done this season or any other season. But because he has had his chance, he has had more than his chance and always came up short. Same as wio, lampard, Gerrard, Ashley cole, shrek, crouch. If the England team we're a prem team they would be in the fucking third division

All proven competition after competition that they aren't good enough as a team and the whole thing needs scrapping along with capello and a new fresh squad set up.

If only anyone had the balls to make it happen.

Start again with a load of under 25s and get them to play together. Fuck how good Wio/Terry/Lamps/Gerrard might be playing, as you said, their chance has been and gone.

Unfortunately, new managers tend to experiment with the youngsters in freindly games but then bottle it as a tournament gets closer and throw all of the above names back into the team. How many times does it have to not work?

You've got it spot on.

This should have been done 4/5 years ago after the Beckham/Gerrard/Lampard/Rio/Terry squad failed again and again. Regardless of how good they were playing for their clubs at the time, they just weren't good enough for the international stage, but blind faith in them by a succession of managers means the same old situation happens at each tournament.

That's reason I don't really have any interest in the national side anymore. I like to keep an eye out for how the City players perform, but in all honestly, I'd rather they weren't playing so they don't get injured and miss any games for us.

[getdressedmctavish]

So you've all decided he's guilty. Might be wise to remember a "fan" made the complaint, not Ferdinand. That's what worries people about all this. In our hurry to seem whiter than white(I know) natural justice goes out the window.I wouldn't have the coont as captain either, he's dead meat imo, but we are in danger of acting like some of the daftest local authorities. IMO, black people are entitled to the same justice or lack of it as everyone else, no more, no less.IMO we belittle them by assuming they are more vulnerable than others.And what kind of a bloody silly trial will it be? "You called me a b...k c..t" No I didn't you deaf c..., I called you a b...d c...t"You wouldnt give it two minutes worth of attention between two juvenile oiks in the playground, which is what it is.

[Beefymcfc]

He's presumed innocent until guilty in my book (hang the bastard) but at the same time the gravity of the situation has to be taken into account.

[Chinners]

So you've all decided he's guilty. Might be wise to remember a "fan" made the complaint, not Ferdinand. That's what worries people about all this. In our hurry to seem whiter than white(I know) natural justice goes out the window.I wouldn't have the coont as captain either, he's dead meat imo, but we are in danger of acting like some of the daftest local authorities. IMO, black people are entitled to the same justice or lack of it as everyone else, no more, no less.IMO we belittle them by assuming they are more vulnerable than others.And what kind of a bloody silly trial will it be? "You called me a b...k c..t" No I didn't you deaf c..., I called you a b...d c...t"You wouldnt give it two minutes worth of attention between two juvenile oiks in the playground, which is what it is.

Good post

[john68]

Being serious...There are actually 2 issues at stake here.
1...The public percerption of what an England captain should be and remember any suspicion about a racist leader is not good whren we are actually playing foreigners.
2...The human rights of the individual. Terry still remains innocent until a court judges otherwise. He is being punished for something he is not yet guilty of.

If that happened outside football, we would rightly be up in arms.

[Dameerto]

It doesn't matter what we expect of a captain, it boils down to an allegation being seen as serious enough to go to court for a decision. Anywhere outside football he would be suspended on full pay until the outcome of the trial, on that basis alone he shouldn't even be in the England squad for the Euros - and this has nothing to do with innocent until proven guilty.

[ant london]

My take on this.

If I'd called (or been alleged to have called.....even without said incident having witnesses and/or having been captured on camera) a co-worker a bl**k c**t or whatever JT is alleged to have done, I would have been suspended pending my innocence being proven. Fact.

It is entirely right and proper that he has been relieved of his captaincy IMO

What I find amazing...although not so amazing considering he comes from one of Europe's most racist countries....is that Capello has come out in support of Terry/criticism of the FA. He should be sacked as well IMO.....mainly for being shit but also being a closet racist if he thinks what Terry is alleged to have done is in any way OK

[Beefymcfc]

My take on this.

If I'd called (or been alleged to have called.....even without said incident having witnesses and/or having been captured on camera) a co-worker a bl**k c**t or whatever JT is alleged to have done, I would have been suspended pending my innocence being proven. Fact.

It is entirely right and proper that he has been relieved of his captaincy IMO

What I find amazing...although not so amazing considering he comes from one of Europe's most racist countries....is that Capello has come out in support of Terry/criticism of the FA. He should be sacked as well IMO.....mainly for being shit but also being a closet racist if he thinks what Terry is alleged to have done is in any way OK

I agree with that mate and sure I mentioned these things earlier. One point that has to be taken into consideration also is the timing. Terry goes to court and gets a trial date after the Euro's, nearly 6 months later. Why did Terry, and his lawyers do this?

Was it because he was thinking that he had to be on the field to lead England to glory or was it for personal gain?

Why wait until after the Euro's if he knew he didn't say what he was charged with, surely his case would stand up and he would be cleared and able to represent his country with a clear head?

I know they need time to interigate all the evidence but does it tke nearly 6 months considering they have the facts of the case to hand?

I'm sure the above was taken into consideration by the FA and that's why the decision was taken now and if Terry had is case heard sooner then they wouldn't have had to take this action.

Oh, and Capello, keep your nose out, if you were strong enough you'd have brought this up earlier rather than saving face with the players now. You fecked up giving him the captaincy back so don't complain when he shits in your sink.

[BlueinBosnia]

2...The human rights of the individual. Terry still remains innocent until a court judges otherwise. He is being punished for something he is not yet guilty of.

Last time I checked, captaining the England national football team was a privilege, not a right.

[saulman]

I remember when Lee Bowyer and Jonathan Woodgate weren't allowed to play for England because the FA banned them while their trial was going on. Hmmmmmmm........

Wasn't he involved in that incident? ....or did I dream it? Wasn't it an England U21s outing and Terry was 'present'?

[john68]

2...The human rights of the individual. Terry still remains innocent until a court judges otherwise. He is being punished for something he is not yet guilty of.

Last time I checked, captaining the England national football team was a privilege, not a right.

Quite so young Andrew but having had that priviledge bestowed, to have it removed for disciplinary reasons
whilst he still remains an innocent person is both unjust and unfair. Had that priviledge been removed because he had proved to be a poor captain or leader, then I would agree.

[bigblue]

2...The human rights of the individual. Terry still remains innocent until a court judges otherwise. He is being punished for something he is not yet guilty of.

Last time I checked, captaining the England national football team was a privilege, not a right.

Quite so young Andrew but having had that priviledge bestowed, to have it removed for disciplinary reasons
whilst he still remains an innocent person is both unjust and unfair. Had that priviledge been removed because he had proved to be a poor captain or leader, then I would agree.

From an American perspective, he has been a poor leader. How the fuck did we tie yall considering the players on both sides? As said above, that whole generation has under performed for 10 years at the international level. A true leader takes responsibility for the whole group and if Terry would do that, he would never play for England again.

[john68]

I am not defending Terry's prowess as a leader mate. Nor are our opinions relevent in this case. The fact remains that the reason given for the removal of his captaincy was the impending court case for racism.

If I remember correctly (and there is no guarantee of that) didn't Tony Adams do a prison sentence whilst England captain. Did he retain it after his guilt was proven? I can't remember.

[dazby]

If Terry was a decent human being he'd have made the decision himself. But, because he's a vile excuse for a human he is being greedy and wants it all.

[Mase]

I remember when Lee Bowyer and Jonathan Woodgate weren't allowed to play for England because the FA banned them while their trial was going on. Hmmmmmmm........

Wasn't he involved in that incident? ....or did I dream it? Wasn't it an England U21s outing and Terry was 'present'?

I'm not sure mate. All I remember is Bowyer was on fire at the time, but he and Woodgate were stopped from playing for England by the FA.

[Beefymcfc]

I remember when Lee Bowyer and Jonathan Woodgate weren't allowed to play for England because the FA banned them while their trial was going on. Hmmmmmmm........

Wasn't he involved in that incident? ....or did I dream it? Wasn't it an England U21s outing and Terry was 'present'?

I'm not sure mate. All I remember is Bowyer was on fire at the time, but he and Woodgate were stopped from playing for England by the FA.

Terry had now't to do with it. Woodgate got community service and Bowyer got cleared, however he did pay the bloke off at a later date. If I remember rightly, the offence was against a foreign student and could've been seen by the FA as a racial assault. Just thought.

[Im_Spartacus]

I think Terry was involved in a different incident with Jody Morris outside a London nightclub, for which they were both cleared

The Bowyer/Woodgate one was outside Majestyks in Leeds IIRC

[Bianchi on Ice]

If Terry was a decent human being he'd have made the decision himself. But, because he's a vile excuse for a human he is being greedy and wants it all.

Absolutely right Dazby. Just because he earns a lot of money doesnt make him any better than the neighbour who throws a brick through your window or lets his kids set light to your car. Hes a fucking chav.

[getdressedmctavish]

By the sound of it, fella you would welcome Terry as a neighbour!