MATCH OFFICIALS

[BalotelliFC]

Patrick Vieira certenly has a point, it almost feels like every decision has fallen against Manchester City in recent weeks.

[RodneyRodney]

There should have been at least three red cards in the first half of Untied v Scouse , if "Kimoany's Law" were applied fairly and consistently.

[Tokyo Blue]

My only real worry about winning the league is that this last third of the season will be where the decisions really start to get out of hand. Especially if we keep winning.

I have no comment to make about today's referee. Yet.

[john68]

My only real worry about winning the league is that this last third of the season will be where the decisions really start to get out of hand. Especially if we keep winning.

I have no comment to make about today's referee. Yet.

I have my opinions Tokyo but am really tryingto be as neutral as possible with this excercise. Morea learning process than a means to vent my anger...Though I can't guarantee that.

[Beefymcfc]

Any thoughts on Michael Oliver?

[bluej]

Any thoughts on Michael Oliver?

I thought he was pretty good, he looks quite young but always seemed in control. That said it wasn't the hardest game to ref IMO.

[Tokyo Blue]

Any thoughts on Michael Oliver?

Reasonably competent. Some eccentricities, like stopping play when Zabaleta was heading into the Villa box to give us a free-kick on the half-way line, but nothing serious from him yet.

He can ref us again.

[Beefymcfc]

I actually thought that he was decent and hardly noticed him. The Zab's one that you mention TB, I thought that ws strange in that split second but said straight away that it had to be a yellow and that's why he blew.

And yes, he can ref again. Hopefully the others will see his performance and try to do the same but I'm not holding my breath. He is young and new which will mean they want him to stay positive until they feel the time is right to indoctrinate him into ways of the association. Just my personal opinion 'cos if this new referee is getting it right, and by the book, why are most of the so-called experienced ref's getting it so awfully wrong?

[Im_Spartacus]

It's an interesting statistic in isolation that this was Oliver's first city game, surely statistically speaking he should have been chosen for a city game previously this season.

Makes you wonder what criteria they have for making the appointments.

Incidentally I thought he had a decent game with a few odd decisions, but seems to be significantly less of a cretin and handling things better than Attwell who was the last young ref the FA parachuted in.

[Tokyo Blue]

I actually thought that he was decent and hardly noticed him. The Zab's one that you mention TB, I thought that ws strange in that split second but said straight away that it had to be a yellow and that's why he blew.

Did you see whether he gave a yellow for it, Beef?

[john68]

@Spartacus,

Your point regarding refereeing appointments is extremely valid and the seeming attachment of some refs to some clubs was a point raised in several of the sites I visited whilst trawling for info.

I haven't quoted any previous stats on this because I am unsure of their veracity and thought it would be better to start from scratch.
Though I forget the actual figures and details, it was reported that one particular ref had done the rags about 17 games and they had won all bar 2 draws, never losing. The same ref had done quite a number of City games and we had never won.
There was also a note regarding Walton and the success of Everton when reffed by him.

It is certainly an area I am aware of and one worth keeping an eye on.

[Im_Spartacus]

@Spartacus,

Your point regarding refereeing appointments is extremely valid and the seeming attachment of some refs to some clubs was a point raised in several of the sites I visited whilst trawling for info.

I haven't quoted any previous stats on this because I am unsure of their veracity and thought it would be better to start from scratch.
Though I forget the actual figures and details, it was reported that one particular ref had done the rags about 17 games and they had won all bar 2 draws, never losing. The same ref had done quite a number of City games and we had never won.
There was also a note regarding Walton and the success of Everton when reffed by him.

It is certainly an area I am aware of and one worth keeping an eye on.

I can only assume that in the case of Oliver it is the case that the FA wanted to ease him in gently, as on first glance he had no games at the top of the table until recently when he took charge of Liverpool vs Spurs. I can't see the appointments before November, so I may be completely wrong about Oliver's avoidance of OT, but I would be willing to place a small wager on what I say below being true.

Look at it this way, if a 26 year old referee gave any contentious decisions at old trafford, Fergie could destroy him, and I bet the FA are mindful of that so just rotate the established referees *(who aren't on the OT banned list) around United until such time as Oliver has built up a reputation as a good ref, which would make Fergie look at twat for criticising him.

It kind of defeats the object of having an elite panel though, if several of those elite are not deemed capable of refereeing at the swamp.

[Beefymcfc]

I actually thought that he was decent and hardly noticed him. The Zab's one that you mention TB, I thought that ws strange in that split second but said straight away that it had to be a yellow and that's why he blew.

Did you see whether he gave a yellow for it, Beef?

Pretty certain mate as I turned to my mate and said he's got to give a yellow if he's stopped it. Otherwise, I'd have been off on one wibbling 'They're out to get us!'

[Tokyo Blue]

I actually thought that he was decent and hardly noticed him. The Zab's one that you mention TB, I thought that ws strange in that split second but said straight away that it had to be a yellow and that's why he blew.

Did you see whether he gave a yellow for it, Beef?

Pretty certain mate as I turned to my mate and said he's got to give a yellow if he's stopped it. Otherwise, I'd have been off on one wibbling 'They're out to get us!'

I didn't notice any booking and I was looking for it. That's why i asked you, hoping you saw something I didn't. I'll have a look on the BBC match report page...

edit:

Three yellow cards for Villa, none of which were in the first half, so no, he didn't book the Villa player. Oh dear.

[Beefymcfc]

I actually thought that he was decent and hardly noticed him. The Zab's one that you mention TB, I thought that ws strange in that split second but said straight away that it had to be a yellow and that's why he blew.

Did you see whether he gave a yellow for it, Beef?

Pretty certain mate as I turned to my mate and said he's got to give a yellow if he's stopped it. Otherwise, I'd have been off on one wibbling 'They're out to get us!'

I didn't notice any booking and I was looking for it. That's why i asked you, hoping you saw something I didn't. I'll have a look on the BBC match report page...

edit:

Three yellow cards for Villa, none of which were in the first half, so no, he didn't book the Villa player. Oh dear.

We maybe talking different incidents mate, it was in the second half.

[clawbaggio]

Oliver is doing ok. On the plus side I notice Atwell has been demoted. Good! He's a shithouse. Remember the Wolves game when he gave them everything and sent Vinnie off?

[Beefymcfc]

Oliver is doing ok. On the plus side I notice Atwell has been demoted. Good! He's a shithouse. Remember the Wolves game when he gave them everything and sent Vinnie off?

Why's that; 1 week, 2 week?
Can anybody answer this, can't seem to find anything on the net?

[john68]

Looking round a refereeing forum I found the following comments regarding the appointments of refs to clubs quite interesting.

Prior to the setting up of PGMOL under Mike Riley and the birth of the Select Group, refs usually only got appointed to the same team twice a season.
Looking at the listed refs this season for some clubs, it seems this has gone by the board and some teams have had the same ref as many as 4 times, whilst other select group officials have not been appointed to them at all.

The list for City: 4...Atkinson. 3..Dean, Dowd, Clattenburg, and Webb. 2...Jones. 1...Taylor, Attwell, Foy, Mason, Friend, Walton and Oliver.
Neither of the 2 new additions to the Select Group; Swarbrick and Moss have officiated a City game and neither have, Halsey, Probert or Marriner.

I don't have a full list for all clubs but Friend has reffed Sunderland 4 times.
Villa have had Oliver 4 times and Clattenburg, Halsey and Swarbrick 3 times each. Mike Dean hasn't reffed a Villa game since 2010.
Webb has reffed Everton 3 times.
Fulham have had Dean and Friend 3 times each.
Liverpool have had Atkinson, Probert, Jones, Dowd and Friend 3 times each. That means that only 5 refs have officiated for well over half of their games.

It would be interesting if any of that threw up any results patterns.

[Im_Spartacus]

Looking round a refereeing forum I found the following comments regarding the appointments of refs to clubs quite interesting.

Prior to the setting up of PGMOL under Mike Riley and the birth of the Select Group, refs usually only got appointed to the same team twice a season.
Looking at the listed refs this season for some clubs, it seems this has gone by the board and some teams have had the same ref as many as 4 times, whilst other select group officials have not been appointed to them at all.

The list for City: 4...Atkinson. 3..Dean, Dowd, Clattenburg, and Webb. 2...Jones. 1...Taylor, Attwell, Foy, Mason, Friend, Walton and Oliver.
Neither of the 2 new additions to the Select Group; Swarbrick and Moss have officiated a City game and neither have, Halsey, Probert or Marriner.

I don't have a full list for all clubs but Friend has reffed Sunderland 4 times.
Villa have had Oliver 4 times and Clattenburg, Halsey and Swarbrick 3 times each. Mike Dean hasn't reffed a Villa game since 2010.
Webb has reffed Everton 3 times.
Fulham have had Dean and Friend 3 times each.
Liverpool have had Atkinson, Probert, Jones, Dowd and Friend 3 times each. That means that only 5 refs have officiated for well over half of their games.

It would be interesting if any of that threw up any results patterns.

There is bound to be some anomalies because of the referees bacon has banned from the Swamp, meaning some have to double up.

Can you have a look and seek if I was right about Oliver, has he done any rag games this season? And more importantly, any at Old Trafford?

[The Maine Man]

Referees should have to declare their supported club (as football fans they all have one) and as such not be included from any match involving them.

Game allocation may simply be to accommodate refs personal wishes (family events) and travel/home location but I suspect it is more sinister than that.