It's Mid July...

[Grob]

Why are you black Grob?

Dunno, probably due to lack of activity over the last 2 years

[Ted Hughes]

It's not possible to compare what the rags have done, to what we have done. Utd benefit from teams not killing them off when they have the chance & they keep getting favourable decisions. Swansea had a go at Utd & went toe to toe with them (I should say went 'toe' with them as rags were mainly restricted to counter attacks ) they did all the hard work then literally missed an open net. V us they were awarded a dodgy pen & scored their only real chance. They had many opportunities v the rags but missed.

There's no way rags played any better at Swansea than we did or did anything special. Same at Spurs, gifted two goals & Chelsea they got all the decisions which went against us & Chelsea (twice) have battered them without beating them.

We have rarely had any crucial big breaks in any games anywhere this season, we have had loads against; it's supposed to even out but that's bullshit, it doesn't. The rags have had them all & we are still getting the shit. If that was to change next week; we had their breaks & they had ours, the league would change next week.

Similarly, Spurs consist of Bale + 10 others. They haven't built anything, they just rely on him with a bit of Modric thrown in.

We may be underperforming away from home but neither of those has anything to shout about in comparison. With the rags, it's not a level playing field. In oprder to be level with them, you have to play about ten points better.

[john68]

Thanks for that reply Grob, at last a reasoned argument rather than having to read those "we are shite" posts.

It takes time to build a great team but I never suggested that the likes of Spurs (13pts behind), Chelsea, Arsenal (both 17pts behind, before tonight's game) or any other Prem team, including L'Pool (all more than 22pts behind) were great teams. I was looking simply at our improvement, rather than any comparison.
Whatever the opinion of our playing style/form, we have dropped 6pts since the halfway stage of the season. Only the rags (dropped 5pts have a better record, so whatever the failures, we are still a mile away from the chasing pack. For the record, none of the chasing pack have dropped less that 10pts and that could change in our favour after tonight's game.
For the most part, any comparison with any chasing clubs, shows our record is still improving.

That then leaves the rags and I agree with what you say about their integration of player. I also would suggest that it does hint they are better at building teams than us...at present anyway. They and Taggart have had since 1986 to practise and fine tune team building and I suspect we still are, not unreasonably, a little behind at the moment. Maybe the stability of the rags years makes it easier for them to have created a club mentality and infrastructure of success that we as yet lack.

I disagree with you suggestion that we have stopped improving...see the points above.

I take on board what you say about rotation and other arguments on here regarding tactics and substitutions. I don't think everything in the City garden is rosie but I also see a City team that is far better than any other I have ever seen. Better than my old heroic Bell, Lee,Summerbee team. Our record this season shows this bunch are probably the best City team in our history.

Mancini gets a lot of stick for his failings (and he has quite a few) but not the same balance of adulation for the positives he has brought. That anyone can contemplate removing him leaves me confused and angry.

[Ted Hughes]

On what planet have Jones, Smalling, Raphael, Raphael 2, Anderson, Bebe, Obertan, De Gea integrated better than Yaya Toure, Silva, Aguero, Clichy & Balotelli ?

They are being held together by two pensioners several referees & Rooney.

[john68]

On what planet have Jones, Smalling, Raphael, Raphael 2, Anderson, Bebe, Obertan, De Gea integrated better than Yaya Toure, Silva, Aguero, Clichy & Balotelli ?

They are being held together by two pensioners several referees & Rooney.

Maybe you're right Ted. If not, you're not far wrong.

[Rag_hater]

For me all this stuff that we are on a learning curve and it will take time to build a side is a bit of the mark.The whole thing about being so rich is that we can buy players who are good and have the right footballing education along with the manager.Time for the team to gel is a different thing,along with applying the managers techniques.
If people keep using the excuse that we are still developing and learning then it seems to me that those people will be happy for us to be languishing around in 2nd.
All this stuff about us being impatient and wanting it now is the thing that goes with being so rich.We don't have to wait

[john68]

For me all this stuff that we are on a learning curve and it will take time to build a side is a bit of the mark.The whole thing about being so rich is that we can buy players who are good and have the right footballing education along with the manager.Time for the team to gel is a different thing,along with applying the managers techniques.
If people keep using the excuse that we are still developing and learning then it seems to me that those people will be happy for us to be languishing around in 2nd.
All this stuff about us being impatient and wanting it now is the thing that goes with being so rich.We don't have to wait

and that is why the Sun on Sunday will always sell papers....and Jeremy Kyle will always have an audience.

[Sideshow Bob]

For me all this stuff that we are on a learning curve and it will take time to build a side is a bit of the mark.The whole thing about being so rich is that we can buy players who are good and have the right footballing education along with the manager.Time for the team to gel is a different thing,along with applying the managers techniques.
If people keep using the excuse that we are still developing and learning then it seems to me that those people will be happy for us to be languishing around in 2nd.
All this stuff about us being impatient and wanting it now is the thing that goes with being so rich.We don't have to wait

if you aren't actually some rag WUM, you are surely doing the best impersonation of a rag WUM i've ever seen.

[Rag_hater]

What age do kids graduate from university?
After that they have learn't enough and are ready for work?
Kids tend to be educated by the time they are 21/22 after that its just adapting to your enviroment youv'e learn't what you need to.
I bet there is fuckall people could teach Silva you can ask him what you want him to do but I don't think you will have to teach him how to do it.
People can always learn but by the time your playing for a living you should be more than educated in what is required.How much skill you have is what makes you better than those you have to compete with and the difference between getting a 10 mill player and a 20 mil player.

For me all this stuff that we are on a learning curve and it will take time to build a side is a bit of the mark.The whole thing about being so rich is that we can buy players who are good and have the right footballing education along with the manager.Time for the team to gel is a different thing,along with applying the managers techniques.
If people keep using the excuse that we are still developing and learning then it seems to me that those people will be happy for us to be languishing around in 2nd.
All this stuff about us being impatient and wanting it now is the thing that goes with being so rich.We don't have to wait

if you aren't actually some rag WUM, you are surely doing the best impersonation of a rag WUM i've ever seen.

Sounds like youv'e lived a very sheltered life then mate.
Ambition.
2nd is for losers

[Blue Since 76]

What age do kids graduate from university?
After that they have learn't enough and are ready for work?
Kids tend to be educated by the time they are 21/22 after that its just adapting to your enviroment youv'e learn't what you need to.

Have you ever met a graduate? The first thing you have to teach most of them is basic English (I mean the English ones, the foreign students are much better).

Add to that that most courses have nothing to do with job they end up in. Anyway, that's heading off topic.

[Grob]

On what planet have Jones, Smalling, Raphael, Raphael 2, Anderson, Bebe, Obertan, De Gea integrated better than Yaya Toure, Silva, Aguero, Clichy & Balotelli ?

They are being held together by two pensioners several referees & Rooney.

The planet where United are top of the league, i.e. this one

[Blue Since 76]

I don't think everything in the City garden is rosie but I also see a City team that is far better than any other I have ever seen. Better than my old heroic Bell, Lee,Summerbee team. Our record this season shows this bunch are probably the best City team in our history.

We may be the best City team ever, in terms of points and, subjectively that they could beat any previous team. But so what? In ten years time there won't be a little asterisks next to our second place saying 'best City team ever'. Teams are judged by what they win. This rag side would get battered by several of the previous teams, but do you think their fans will care if they win the title?

With the money City has spent, it's reasonable for everyone from the owner down to expect a return. I don't buy into this 'it takes time' as that's just an excuse for failure. If we were trying to bring through local youngsters, fair enough, but not when you have the opportunity to buy almost any player in the world. Otherwise, six years down the line, we've turned into Arsenal. I'd happily be the worst team in the league if we won it.

[Grob]

Thanks for that reply Grob, at last a reasoned argument rather than having to read those "we are shite" posts.

It takes time to build a great team but I never suggested that the likes of Spurs (13pts behind), Chelsea, Arsenal (both 17pts behind, before tonight's game) or any other Prem team, including L'Pool (all more than 22pts behind) were great teams. I was looking simply at our improvement, rather than any comparison.
Whatever the opinion of our playing style/form, we have dropped 6pts since the halfway stage of the season. Only the rags (dropped 5pts have a better record, so whatever the failures, we are still a mile away from the chasing pack. For the record, none of the chasing pack have dropped less that 10pts and that could change in our favour after tonight's game.
For the most part, any comparison with any chasing clubs, shows our record is still improving.

That then leaves the rags and I agree with what you say about their integration of player. I also would suggest that it does hint they are better at building teams than us...at present anyway. They and Taggart have had since 1986 to practise and fine tune team building and I suspect we still are, not unreasonably, a little behind at the moment. Maybe the stability of the rags years makes it easier for them to have created a club mentality and infrastructure of success that we as yet lack.

I disagree with you suggestion that we have stopped improving...see the points above.

I take on board what you say about rotation and other arguments on here regarding tactics and substitutions. I don't think everything in the City garden is rosie but I also see a City team that is far better than any other I have ever seen. Better than my old heroic Bell, Lee,Summerbee team. Our record this season shows this bunch are probably the best City team in our history.

Mancini gets a lot of stick for his failings (and he has quite a few) but not the same balance of adulation for the positives he has brought. That anyone can contemplate removing him leaves me confused and angry.

I fundamentally feel that with our squad and managerial team, and based on the opposition we have to face from the other 19 teams in our league, we should be 5 or 6 points clear at the top right now and should win the league with at least 1 game to spare. Thats my opinion and I think its not unreasonable in the slightest.

Whilst we are clearly the best team in the league on our day, there have been a fair few games where we have had the better team on paper, yet due to poor tactics, arrogant/naive team selection, we have not delivered the results we should have. Of course sometimes the deck of cards dealt adds up to defeat (Cheslea away, Liverpool away in the league, United in the cup), or the team just doesnt function (West Brom away, Everton away), but looking at the other games where we have failed to win, and some that we actually have won, I see great tactical flaws that have been followed by baffling substitutions that havent helped one bit. Thats what flustrates me. And yes, nobody is perfect of course, and we are learning all the time, and if we were top of the league, like we should be, then it wouldnt be a massive issue. But we are not.

Of course we could always win our next and and the scum could lose their next 3 and everything is hunky dorey again. But it still doesnt make bringing up some quite worrying concerns irellevent.

I make no bones about the fact that I've never really liked Mancini. I feel his team are too ponderous in possession alot of the time. I feel he doesnt grasp some aspects of English football (high temp play, and the passion inferior teams conjour up when they play us). And I feel the team have looked underprepared in a fair few matches in all competitions this season which I think isnt acceptable.

But what he has done is, with the backing of the big man, is put together the best Manchester City team ever. And put together the best squad in the league, easily. So he should be winning the title this season. If he does then he's proven himself again, like he did last season, and ill be happy to see his reign continue, and hopefully he will learn from his mistakes.

[Rag_hater]

Thing is when we hired Bobby I thought we got somebody who would win us things not an apprentice who was still learning.

[failsworthblue]

We may have the best squad in the country , but with one fundamental flaw, No Pace

They are playing crap , but absorb pressure then bang.

Watching yesterday and on thursday it was painfull at times.

Regardless of the outcome this season it needs addressing.

[chips]

We may have the best squad in the country , but with one fundamental flaw, No Pace

THIS. I've said time and time again, we lack pace. We pass the ball too much and too slowly. When we play with pace, we are unstoppable, but lately its just been slow and quite boring to watch at times if I'm honest. The one thing about the scum is that they do play with pace. If we can master playing with speed in every game, nobody will be able to stop us.

[King Kev]

Thing is when we hired Bobby I thought we got somebody who would win us things not an apprentice who was still learning.

[gillie]

Thing is when we hired Bobby I thought we got somebody who would win us things not an apprentice who was still learning.

Exactly.

[GhoulishZombie]

United won't drop any points while we will drop at-least 6 points

[SirSavic]

I can't believe that with the money we've spent our team is trailing a team that has Scholes and Giggs (Combined age of almost 80), Carrick and Park in midfield.......It's laughable!