The Invincibles

[lets all have a disco]

I just looked through their fixture list & there's no doubt in my mind that we have had a tougher job so far this season than Utd.

It really has been a bit of a freak, the way things have worked out for them. It's unlikely to happen like that again.

Honestly mate, do you really believe that?

One could argue that they had to play Liverpool when Suarez was back from his ban
They had Vidic missing most of the season and Ferdinand missing for a fair chunk. We lose Kompany and/or Lescott for a couple of weeks and its like the coming of the 2nd apocolypse on here
I know things like Chelsea sacking could have fallen fortunately for them, playing Arsenal before they (seemingly) have hit a vein of form, but I don't know what freak things have happened which makes you feel this is all so unbalanced.

The only freak thing that has happened recently, is that we have played like cunts in our last 5 or 6 away games. If we hadn't we would have been out of sight and not even having this discussion

[Chinners]

Everyone has to play the same other 19 clubs home and away at some stage .... thats how I see it

[DoomMerchant]

Everyone has to play the same other 19 clubs home and away at some stage .... thats how I see it

so fucking unfair...

[Rag_hater]

Everyone has to play the same other 19 clubs home and away at some stage .... thats how I see it

Your'e right.But there are so many rag lovers that they only have to turn up and they get the points.

[DoomMerchant]

Everyone has to play the same other 19 clubs home and away at some stage .... thats how I see it

Your'e right.But there are so many rag lovers that they only have to turn up and they get the points.

more rag haters please.

cheers

[Bridge'srightfoot]

Ted there's definitely an element of truth in what you say, however you seem to fail to recognize that they actually do have a good side with some very good players and that's why they win games aswell, not just because every side bends over for them.

[DoomMerchant]

Ted there's definitely an element of truth in what you say, however you seem to fail to recognize that they actually do have a good side with some very good players and that's why they win games aswell, not just because every side bends over for them.

they are a team in transition as well as us to be fair. i think our talent level is higher, but they've added a lot of pieces in the last few years, and are blooding a couple younger purchases who are not the finished product.

I don't expect them to be worse next season.

cheers

[PeterParker]

Ted there's definitely an element of truth in what you say, however you seem to fail to recognize that they actually do have a good side with some very good players and that's why they win games aswell, not just because every side bends over for them.

They have a good side, no doubt, but they don''t have it better than Spurs or even Chelsea. They are at the same level with those two and maybe, Scouse 1.

What Ted is saying (i think) is that in the last 20 years, they had a lot of crappy squads and performances, but still managed to finish in top 3, almost everytime just because 80 % of the other teams didn't had the balls to take them and didn't have the same attitude that they have with every other team in this league.

[brite blu sky]

About the invincibles... Why didn't they rack up a record points tally if they were that good ? hmm.. answer that.

About us.. everyone lost sight of it but we are still only just closing on the first full season together for a lot of the key forward players, I'm including Balotelli and Dzeko in that as last season they were too in out and all about to get with it. So there are teething problems imo. We were very confident when Nasri, Clichy, Aguero all met up with Silva.. we looked like we were going to take Bayern apart on their own turf for a good spell. Since then we have slowly lost confidence. In my opinion due to working at being that good instead of just being that good.
I never believed we would continue as we started as the period of consolidating the play would interfere with the just getting on with it.

Anyways, about the rags. It is telling that it is obvious they are a relatively poor side.. yet have got results. Someone said freak year, someone said they attack in 5 min spells and get goals. Put those two together plus the fact that as a club they have a real depth of experience of what it takes and how to do it. Imo they have been lucky as fuck not to get beat or draw to teams who missed open goals. They struggled to get a grip of midfield battles early in the season and were the team with most shots at goal conceded. So escaping all that was freaky yes. But they know two things, one how to address shortcomings and two how to pile it on in short bursts. The short burst is very effective. very.. teams have to switch from looking to control a game to firefighting.

In contrast when City are dominating posession and play the oppo at least knows what it is doing. If City dont change the tempo it allows the oppo to get into groove and settle into their job. A lot of City's goals have come from some exceptional pieces of play or ability of players. It is worthwhile questioning if that can be relied on game in game out. I'd suggest it is chancing it to do that.

Overall City have to learn. rags don't so much.

As Ted said in another thread though the time has come to stuff the getting it exactly right and just to go hell for leather. It is ironic that in doing just that the team would finally find a way of gelling completely. I dont know if it always the way but I've seen it with groups happen time and time again. Something has to click and only by dropping thinking about it and let intuition kick in will it happen. I'm still expecting some bad results tbh and in addition some sharp on field words passed round before this clicking takes place.

Still think the rags will fuck up though... just at the moment they think they have it in the bag.

[Bridge'srightfoot]

Ted there's definitely an element of truth in what you say, however you seem to fail to recognize that they actually do have a good side with some very good players and that's why they win games aswell, not just because every side bends over for them.

They have a good side, no doubt, but they don''t have it better than Spurs or even Chelsea. They are at the same level with those two and maybe, Scouse 1.

What Ted is saying (i think) is that in the last 20 years, they had a lot of crappy squads and performances, but still managed to finish in top 3, almost everytime just because 80 % of the other teams didn't had the balls to take them and didn't have the same attitude that they have with every other team in this league.

That's bull shit. They finish top 3 because over the years like it or not, they've had lots of very good squads and very good players they've had some crap aswell. Sure there is an element of other teams being afraid but that's not an overriding factor. In fact I'd say more teams this season have thrown in the towel against us and barely even tried to score.

[Beefymcfc]

bias reffing against us and for them as give them the advantage and nothing else, dya think swansea woulkd have got that pen v scum no, would vidic have been sent off for a tackle like kompanys no, would scouse 1 have got a pen for the richards handball in the league cup if that had been scum no, would rooney have been banned like ballotelli v liverpool and v spurs no, would de gea have even been spoken about baiting the swansea keeper before a pen no, did evra get a 3match ban for elbowing richards in the cup match at ours no, there was no retrospective action WHY?

it's because they are better than us...

honestly, this is the old adage of "you have to beat the champ" being played out at full fucking volume and it's hurting my ears.

you see it in sports. it's not as uncommon as we think. It happens in every sporting league in the States, but not to the degree i think i've seen it in the Premier League.

someone mentioned to me yesterday -- a gentleman in his late 60s who was a youth coach for Wednesday in the late 60s and through the early 80s who's also coaching my son in some soccer clinics -- "maybe it was too much to think City could win it in the first real year of getting Mancini's entire squad built. It's pretty optimistic to be honest." and i kinda thought about that for a few minutes afterwards, and as a neutral he doesn't see City coming 2nd this year like we do. He thinks City are going to smash it for years to come and be a real world footballing power, so what's the haste?

as a supporter who believes in his heart of hearts that we're the best team in England (but perhaps not Wales, i dunno), i don't have the same view of course...but it was interesting to hear him speak about it. I believe he is a Forest supporter iirc.

Seems your friend has a decent rationale. I'm just hoping it's not yours, I'll have to change my opinion of you ;-/

[Beefymcfc]

About the invincibles... Why didn't they rack up a record points tally if they were that good ? hmm.. answer that.

Sorry to pick on one point mate but what does invincible stand for as I'm sure it doesn't mean that they got the most, even though they did that season?

[PeterParker]

Ted there's definitely an element of truth in what you say, however you seem to fail to recognize that they actually do have a good side with some very good players and that's why they win games aswell, not just because every side bends over for them.

They have a good side, no doubt, but they don''t have it better than Spurs or even Chelsea. They are at the same level with those two and maybe, Scouse 1.

What Ted is saying (i think) is that in the last 20 years, they had a lot of crappy squads and performances, but still managed to finish in top 3, almost everytime just because 80 % of the other teams didn't had the balls to take them and didn't have the same attitude that they have with every other team in this league.

That's bull shit. They finish top 3 because over the years like it or not, they've had lots of very good squads and very good players they've had some crap aswell. Sure there is an element of other teams being afraid but that's not an overriding factor. In fact I'd say more teams this season have thrown in the towel against us and barely even tried to score.

Every team in the world has one year or more were they have a little regress and finish below their usual places. Barcelona did it, Milan, Real and so on, when teams change their players or some of them doesn't show the same interest after they've won everything. Filth are the only one club in the world that doesn't do that, altough they had some patethic season in the past two decades. Just remember at the start of the 2000's, they had a horrible season, finished last in the Champions league groups, Lille took them down, they looked shit, but still managed to fight for the title. There is absolutely no way a team can fight year after year, for 20 years for the title, every year.

And there is a huge difference of a team throwing the towel and a team that was murdered on the field. There is no team in this league that did that on our ground, every one of them took a hell of a beating after games they didn't had a chance, because we didn't allowed them. On the other hand, the away games...those are a different story.

[DoomMerchant]

bias reffing against us and for them as give them the advantage and nothing else, dya think swansea woulkd have got that pen v scum no, would vidic have been sent off for a tackle like kompanys no, would scouse 1 have got a pen for the richards handball in the league cup if that had been scum no, would rooney have been banned like ballotelli v liverpool and v spurs no, would de gea have even been spoken about baiting the swansea keeper before a pen no, did evra get a 3match ban for elbowing richards in the cup match at ours no, there was no retrospective action WHY?

it's because they are better than us...

honestly, this is the old adage of "you have to beat the champ" being played out at full fucking volume and it's hurting my ears.

you see it in sports. it's not as uncommon as we think. It happens in every sporting league in the States, but not to the degree i think i've seen it in the Premier League.

someone mentioned to me yesterday -- a gentleman in his late 60s who was a youth coach for Wednesday in the late 60s and through the early 80s who's also coaching my son in some soccer clinics -- "maybe it was too much to think City could win it in the first real year of getting Mancini's entire squad built. It's pretty optimistic to be honest." and i kinda thought about that for a few minutes afterwards, and as a neutral he doesn't see City coming 2nd this year like we do. He thinks City are going to smash it for years to come and be a real world footballing power, so what's the haste?

as a supporter who believes in his heart of hearts that we're the best team in England (but perhaps not Wales, i dunno), i don't have the same view of course...but it was interesting to hear him speak about it. I believe he is a Forest supporter iirc.

Seems your friend has a decent rationale. I'm just hoping it's not yours, I'll have to change my opinion of you ;-/

i said it wasn't my opinion at the end of my post, dicksnot. Read more closely next time.

Anytime you want to bare knuckle fight me, let me know. i have some dead flowers for you that i can post up aigh-ess-aigh-pee buddy.

cheers

[Beefymcfc]

bias reffing against us and for them as give them the advantage and nothing else, dya think swansea woulkd have got that pen v scum no, would vidic have been sent off for a tackle like kompanys no, would scouse 1 have got a pen for the richards handball in the league cup if that had been scum no, would rooney have been banned like ballotelli v liverpool and v spurs no, would de gea have even been spoken about baiting the swansea keeper before a pen no, did evra get a 3match ban for elbowing richards in the cup match at ours no, there was no retrospective action WHY?

it's because they are better than us...

honestly, this is the old adage of "you have to beat the champ" being played out at full fucking volume and it's hurting my ears.

you see it in sports. it's not as uncommon as we think. It happens in every sporting league in the States, but not to the degree i think i've seen it in the Premier League.

someone mentioned to me yesterday -- a gentleman in his late 60s who was a youth coach for Wednesday in the late 60s and through the early 80s who's also coaching my son in some soccer clinics -- "maybe it was too much to think City could win it in the first real year of getting Mancini's entire squad built. It's pretty optimistic to be honest." and i kinda thought about that for a few minutes afterwards, and as a neutral he doesn't see City coming 2nd this year like we do. He thinks City are going to smash it for years to come and be a real world footballing power, so what's the haste?

as a supporter who believes in his heart of hearts that we're the best team in England (but perhaps not Wales, i dunno), i don't have the same view of course...but it was interesting to hear him speak about it. I believe he is a Forest supporter iirc.

Seems your friend has a decent rationale. I'm just hoping it's not yours, I'll have to change my opinion of you ;-/

i said it wasn't my opinion at the end of my post, dicksnot. Read more closely next time.

Anytime you want to bare knuckle fight me, let me know. i have some dead flowers for you that i can post up aigh-ess-aigh-pee buddy.

cheers

Ha ha ha, that's why I love you Doomie, always the optimist. I don't like flowers ;-)

[brite blu sky]

About the invincibles... Why didn't they rack up a record points tally if they were that good ? hmm.. answer that.

Sorry to pick on one point mate but what does invincible stand for as I'm sure it doesn't mean that they got the most, even though they did that season?

They wasn't beaten.. that's the invincibles bit. I guess they must've drawn a lot though... otherwise as i said they should have had a record points tally.

[Ted Hughes]

I just looked through their fixture list & there's no doubt in my mind that we have had a tougher job so far this season than Utd.

It really has been a bit of a freak, the way things have worked out for them. It's unlikely to happen like that again.

Honestly mate, do you really believe that?

One could argue that they had to play Liverpool when Suarez was back from his ban
They had Vidic missing most of the season and Ferdinand missing for a fair chunk. We lose Kompany and/or Lescott for a couple of weeks and its like the coming of the 2nd apocolypse on here
I know things like Chelsea sacking could have fallen fortunately for them, playing Arsenal before they (seemingly) have hit a vein of form, but I don't know what freak things have happened which makes you feel this is all so unbalanced.

The only freak thing that has happened recently, is that we have played like cunts in our last 5 or 6 away games. If we hadn't we would have been out of sight and not even having this discussion

We have had Tevez missing all season, the number of points he could have pinched is immesurable . Injuries etc are not what I'm talking about. Refereeing fuck ups & breaks going their way are.

I could spend all night listing examples but suffice to say, they have not out outplayed ANY decent team when it's been at full strength, either here or abroad. Not one, all season. That does not usually equate to a top of the league side but they have been lucky that out of the teams you would expect to challenge them, only City & Newcastle have met them whilst in top shape,(even though Chelsea battered them twice anyway ). The othrrs have all met Utd whilst in trouble, Arsenal in particular.

Most teams would expect Everton to give them a game btw but not Utd, why is that ?

Most of the time this season, when the rags have had a bad day, they have got away with it. On those days, they have been very very beatable but rarely does anyone cash in. Not because of superhuman ability but because they simply got away with it. Things have run for them where in similar games they have run against us (goal disallowed v WBA, last min offside Sunderland, Swansea gift them goal, miss open net & other chances, score in same situation v us etc. Red cards, pens, lucky escapes, we have been unlucky on the whole & they have been lucky on the whole.

Usually City would have more margin for error in a title race, even against better Utd teams. This season is a bit of a freak.

[Bridge'srightfoot]

I hate to see us use all these excuses. Fact is we've dropped points in games we really shouldn't of. And it's hardly like we were unlucky. Against Swansea, Everton, Sunderland, West brom amongst others we haven't played well enough. The Rags haven't played particularly well either but the difference is when they play crap they win and they don't throw in the towel if they're not winning after 70 minutes. And that's not because other teams bow down for them. Everyone on here said they played shite against Spurs away. Well if we played shite and won 3-1 at WHL people on here would be creaming themselves saying it was 'a performance of champions'.

It's not over yet, not by a long shot but our performances need to improve 100% or else they'll walk it.

[Beefymcfc]

I hate to see us use all these excuses. Fact is we've dropped points in games we really shouldn't of. And it's hardly like we were unlucky. Against Swansea, Everton, Sunderland, West brom amongst others we haven't played well enough. The Rags haven't played particularly well either but the difference is when they play crap they win and they don't throw in the towel if they're not winning after 70 minutes. And that's not because other teams bow down for them. Everyone on ehre said they played shite against Spurs away. Well if we played shite and won 3-1 at WHL people on here would be creaming themselves saying it was 'a performance of champions'.

It's not over yet, not by a long shot but our performances need to improve 100% or else they'll walk it.

If we improve our performance 100% on Swansea we're still scoring zero goals. Personally, I just want to see goals, feck the performance.

[Ted Hughes]

I hate to see us use all these excuses. Fact is we've dropped points in games we really shouldn't of. And it's hardly like we were unlucky. Against Swansea, Everton, Sunderland, West brom amongst others we haven't played well enough. The Rags haven't played particularly well either but the difference is when they play crap they win and they don't throw in the towel if they're not winning after 70 minutes. And that's not because other teams bow down for them. Everyone on ehre said they played shite against Spurs away. Well if we played shite and won 3-1 at WHL people on here would be creaming themselves saying it was 'a performance of champions'.

It's not over yet, not by a long shot but our performances need to improve 100% or else they'll walk it.

When people such as yourself, & others on this thread, post stuff like this; do you actually think back over Utd games & compare their actual performances to ours or do you just go off a distant memory of Ryan Giggs running at the oppo defence & assume they did a load of stuff ? I'm not seeking to be patronising or insulting here it's a genuine question. You see, in two of the games you mentioned, they actually scored very early on & then got battered for much of the game, so you could say they threw in the towel after 10 mins rather than after 70.

The reason I'm asking is that, whenever this subject comes up, loads of reasons are trotted out for why Utd get results & what they did here & there, etc etc but I've been scrutinising this all season, actually looking for things we should do, how to be Champions etc & whilst I fully admit, and have mentioned many many times, there are things the rags have done regularly over the years when they are at their best which we should improve upon; when I look at the many games this season in which the rags have had on 'off day' played badly & won, they haven't actually done much at of it at all. They were totally shit & no better than us or whoever the week before, they just made the same mistakes, played the same old shit & won. There was no magic, no subtefuge, just the result.


Imo, Utd's secret on these off days, when they are really struggling to get their game together, is what happens in the minds of the opposition & not in what Utd actually do on the pitch, which is usually just as bad, or worse than what we do on our bad days. When both teams are shit, they are just as shit as each other.

On the whole though, imo, we have played better than them over the season & that was the case at Swansea, even though we lost.