The Invincibles

[Im_Spartacus]

When people such as yourself, & others on this thread, post stuff like this; do you actually think back over Utd games & compare their actual performances to ours or do you just go off a distant memory of Ryan Giggs running at the oppo defence & assume they did a load of stuff ? I'm not seeking to be patronising or insulting here it's a genuine question. You see, in two of the games you mentioned, they actually scored very early on & then got battered for much of the game, so you could say they threw in the towel after 10 mins rather than after 70.

The reason I'm asking is that, whenever this subject comes up, loads of reasons are trotted out for why Utd get results & what they did here & there, etc etc but I've been scrutinising this all season, actually looking for things we should do, how to be Champions etc & whilst I fully admit, and have mentioned many many times, there are things the rags have done regularly over the years when they are at their best which we should improve upon; when I look at the many games this season in which the rags have had on 'off day' played badly & won, they haven't actually done much at of it at all. They were totally shit & no better than us or whoever the week before, they just made the same mistakes, played the same old shit & won. There was no magic, no subtefuge, just the result.

Imo, Utd's secret on these off days, when they are really struggling to get their game together, is what happens in the minds of the opposition & not in what Utd actually do on the pitch, which is usually just as bad, or worse than what we do on our bad days. When both teams are shit, they are just as shit as each other.

On the whole though, imo, we have played better than them over the season & that was the case at Swansea, even though we lost.

If you dont score, you cant win games. As we failed to score in the games you mentioned, that is entirely our own fault.

Different games are not comparable like for like as different systems react differently to each other. The difference is that when we carry on trying to knock the door down through the middle, united can mix it up, and have players like young, nani, rooney and welbeck all of whom have reasonable pace and are capable of both scoring and providing goals from that pace. In any given game, i would back any 2 from those 4 against most pl defences to score.

If uniteds philosophy is to score a goal in every game, they have a more suitable mentality to win the league than a club whose mentality seems to be not to concede a goal, because collecting 3 points is the name of the game.

Look back to last season, the two occasions neville played and should have been sent off, the rooney elbow at wigan, united went on to win those games - i would be far far more aggrieved had i been a chelsea fan chasing united last season, because those decisions were totally indefensible. This season, if we blow it, it will have been our own fault, imnot interested what the rags do

Incidentally i would love it, love it if we beat them, because i am gonna stuff those "20" posters which are already appearing now they have been top for one game right up their fucking classless munich arses

[Foreverinbluedreams]

"If uniteds philosophy is to score a goal in every game, they have a more suitable mentality to win the league than a club whose mentality seems to be not to concede a goal, because collecting 3 points is the name of the game."

How people can still say that we seem to have a mentality not to cconcede having witnessed what happened at Sunderland and Swansea is beyond me.

[Chinners]

As oppossed to the 20 odd clean sheets we've kept this season?

[Ted Hughes]

When people such as yourself, & others on this thread, post stuff like this; do you actually think back over Utd games & compare their actual performances to ours or do you just go off a distant memory of Ryan Giggs running at the oppo defence & assume they did a load of stuff ? I'm not seeking to be patronising or insulting here it's a genuine question. You see, in two of the games you mentioned, they actually scored very early on & then got battered for much of the game, so you could say they threw in the towel after 10 mins rather than after 70.

The reason I'm asking is that, whenever this subject comes up, loads of reasons are trotted out for why Utd get results & what they did here & there, etc etc but I've been scrutinising this all season, actually looking for things we should do, how to be Champions etc & whilst I fully admit, and have mentioned many many times, there are things the rags have done regularly over the years when they are at their best which we should improve upon; when I look at the many games this season in which the rags have had on 'off day' played badly & won, they haven't actually done much at of it at all. They were totally shit & no better than us or whoever the week before, they just made the same mistakes, played the same old shit & won. There was no magic, no subtefuge, just the result.

Imo, Utd's secret on these off days, when they are really struggling to get their game together, is what happens in the minds of the opposition & not in what Utd actually do on the pitch, which is usually just as bad, or worse than what we do on our bad days. When both teams are shit, they are just as shit as each other.

On the whole though, imo, we have played better than them over the season & that was the case at Swansea, even though we lost.

If you dont score, you cant win games. As we failed to score in the games you mentioned, that is entirely our own fault.

Different games are not comparable like for like as different systems react differently to each other. The difference is that when we carry on trying to knock the door down through the middle, united can mix it up, and have players like young, nani, rooney and welbeck all of whom have reasonable pace and are capable of both scoring and providing goals from that pace. In any given game, i would back any 2 from those 4 against most pl defences to score.

If uniteds philosophy is to score a goal in every game, they have a more suitable mentality to win the league than a club whose mentality seems to be not to concede a goal, because collecting 3 points is the name of the game.

Look back to last season, the two occasions neville played and should have been sent off, the rooney elbow at wigan, united went on to win those games - i would be far far more aggrieved had i been a chelsea fan chasing united last season, because those decisions were totally indefensible. This season, if we blow it, it will have been our own fault, [highlight]imnot interested what the rags do[/highlight]

Incidentally i would love it, love it if we beat them, because i am gonna stuff those "20" posters which are already appearing now they have been top for one game right up their fucking classless munich arses

That's fair enough but can you explain why they usually just get the one goal, and what causes the opposition to keep missing five or six chances at the other end then scoring the one they get against us ?

This thread was started about the rags btw not about us.

I don't think they've played well enough to deserve the number of points they've got & think they would have a lot less if oppo teams didn't treat them as royalty.

[Im_Spartacus]

That's fair enough but can you explain why they usually just get the one goal, and what causes the opposition to keep missing five or six chances at the other end then scoring the one they get against us ?

This thread was started about the rags btw not about us.

I don't think they've played well enough to deserve the number of points they've got & think they would have a lot less if oppo teams didn't treat them as royalty.

But they have also scored more goals than us, so the 1.0 argument doesnt wash. They have smashed as many teams as we have this year.

If they win 1.0 sometimes thats just the way it falls and it is the case that a team playing badly that still wins is the sign of a good side. They had a spell after we beat them where bacon battened down the hatches and won a run of games 1.0 and that little run was the foundation to the run they are on now.

I 100% agree with you that there is a media bias, and there are sometimes questionable decisions such as injury time, penalties etc, but there are with us too, such as balo shouldnt have been on the pitch to win and score vs spuds. We all get good and bad calls throughout the course of a season, just we seize upon the rags as evidence of a conspiracy, and ignore our own (aguero penalty the other night, was that a rag conspiracy to keep us in the competition)

[Im_Spartacus]

"If uniteds philosophy is to score a goal in every game, they have a more suitable mentality to win the league than a club whose mentality seems to be not to concede a goal, because collecting 3 points is the name of the game."

How people can still say that we seem to have a mentality not to cconcede having witnessed what happened at Sunderland and Swansea is beyond me.

you didnt even watch the Swansea game did you? You cant have done to use that as an example.

[Foreverinbluedreams]

"If uniteds philosophy is to score a goal in every game, they have a more suitable mentality to win the league than a club whose mentality seems to be not to concede a goal, because collecting 3 points is the name of the game."

How people can still say that we seem to have a mentality not to cconcede having witnessed what happened at Sunderland and Swansea is beyond me.

you didnt even watch the Swansea game did you? You cant have done to use that as an example.

That's just a tad patronising.

The reason I used both as an example was because in both games we tried to force the issue at the end and in both we left ourselves exposed and were caught out. A team that is set up not to concede doesn't try to force the issue.

[Im_Spartacus]

That's just a tad patronising.

The reason I used both as an example was because in both games we tried to force the issue at the end and in both we left ourselves exposed and were caught out. A team that is set up not to concede doesn't try to force the issue.

So our approach is not to concede for 75 minutes then throw the kitchen sink at it because we havent forced the other side into opening the city gates and allowing us through, so we suddenly start to dpminate the game out of desperation in the way we should and could have done from the start

That is a team setup not to concede, who because of that have also not managed to score, and because of the managers mistake, have to kitchen sink it at the end, end up conceding making the previous 75 minutes trying not to concede pretty pointless. Th run of 1.0 defeats should be evidence enough of this.

The swansea game was fucking dire mate, absolutely appalling. It was also naive of mancini, which having won 3 scudettos (some would argue in a non competetive league though) he should know better than to gamble like that in a game that was an accident waiting to happen.

United dont respect the opposition, they go out to play theway they intend to play. On odd occasions they slip up with it, but 90% of ga,mes, they know that if they go to impose their way of playing on the opposition, they will usually win out.

There is no way we should be going givin swansea the respect we did and playing like a bunch of shithouses. We should play our game and let them deal with it. Manini has fucked up, bacon has got it generally spot on, even if they are luckywins and they sail close to the wind at the time.

[Foreverinbluedreams]

That's just a tad patronising.

The reason I used both as an example was because in both games we tried to force the issue at the end and in both we left ourselves exposed and were caught out. A team that is set up not to concede doesn't try to force the issue.

So our approach is not to concede for 75 minutes then throw the kitchen sink at it because we havent forced the other side into opening the city gates and allowing us through, so we suddenly start to dpminate the game out of desperation in the way we should and could have done from the start

That is a team setup not to concede, who because of that have also not managed to score, and because of the managers mistake, have to kitchen sink it at the end, end up conceding making the previous 75 minutes trying not to concede pretty pointless. Th run of 1.0 defeats should be evidence enough of this.

The swansea game was fucking dire mate, absolutely appalling. It was also naive of mancini, which having won 3 scudettos (some would argue in a non competetive league though) he should know better than to gamble like that in a game that was an accident waiting to happen.

United dont respect the opposition, they go out to play theway they intend to play. On odd occasions they slip up with it, but 90% of ga,mes, they know that if they go to impose their way of laying on the opposition, they will usually win out.

There is no way we should be going givin swansea the respect we did and playing like a bunch of shithouses. We should play our game and let them deal with it. Manini has fucked up, bacon has got it generally spot on, even if they are luckywins and they sail close to the wind at the time.

I agree that Mancini got it wrong at the start in this one, he obviously set up to try control the midfield but unfortunately that tactic didn't work as Swansea were very adept at playing out from the back. Mancini recognised this and made the change which in turn saw us control the tempo of the game from that point on. The last hour of the game saw our customary probing against a stubborn defence whilst leaving ourselves vulnerable to a counter.

Imo we haven't set up to not concede since the Emirates last season.

[Bridge'srightfoot]

When people such as yourself, & others on this thread, post stuff like this; do you actually think back over Utd games & compare their actual performances to ours or do you just go off a distant memory of Ryan Giggs running at the oppo defence & assume they did a load of stuff ? I'm not seeking to be patronising or insulting here it's a genuine question. You see, in two of the games you mentioned, they actually scored very early on & then got battered for much of the game, so you could say they threw in the towel after 10 mins rather than after 70.

The reason I'm asking is that, whenever this subject comes up, loads of reasons are trotted out for why Utd get results & what they did here & there, etc etc but I've been scrutinising this all season, actually looking for things we should do, how to be Champions etc & whilst I fully admit, and have mentioned many many times, there are things the rags have done regularly over the years when they are at their best which we should improve upon; when I look at the many games this season in which the rags have had on 'off day' played badly & won, they haven't actually done much at of it at all. They were totally shit & no better than us or whoever the week before, they just made the same mistakes, played the same old shit & won. There was no magic, no subtefuge, just the result.

Imo, Utd's secret on these off days, when they are really struggling to get their game together, is what happens in the minds of the opposition & not in what Utd actually do on the pitch, which is usually just as bad, or worse than what we do on our bad days. When both teams are shit, they are just as shit as each other.

On the whole though, imo, we have played better than them over the season & that was the case at Swansea, even though we lost.

If you dont score, you cant win games. As we failed to score in the games you mentioned, that is entirely our own fault.

Different games are not comparable like for like as different systems react differently to each other. The difference is that when we carry on trying to knock the door down through the middle, united can mix it up, and have players like young, nani, rooney and welbeck all of whom have reasonable pace and are capable of both scoring and providing goals from that pace. In any given game, i would back any 2 from those 4 against most pl defences to score.

If uniteds philosophy is to score a goal in every game, they have a more suitable mentality to win the league than a club whose mentality seems to be not to concede a goal, because collecting 3 points is the name of the game.

Look back to last season, the two occasions neville played and should have been sent off, the rooney elbow at wigan, united went on to win those games - i would be far far more aggrieved had i been a chelsea fan chasing united last season, because those decisions were totally indefensible. This season, if we blow it, it will have been our own fault, [highlight]imnot interested what the rags do[/highlight]

Incidentally i would love it, love it if we beat them, because i am gonna stuff those "20" posters which are already appearing now they have been top for one game right up their fucking classless munich arses

That's fair enough but can you explain why they usually just get the one goal, and what causes the opposition to keep missing five or six chances at the other end then scoring the one they get against us ?

This thread was started about the rags btw not about us.

I don't think they've played well enough to deserve the number of points they've got & think they would have a lot less if oppo teams didn't treat them as royalty.

Because they can mix it up far more than we can as previously mentioned. Some games we can pass through teams ie Spurs and United away. But other games we can't. Against Swansea, West Brom, Sunderland, Everton and others we haven't been able to, but we keep trying to thread the ball through the eye of the needle, We keep trying to find the perfect pass when it just isn't working. Whereas when they need a goal they don't fuck about, they get the ball on to the wings and put in cross after cross until they score.
Where was our onslaught against Swansea? Where was the unrelenting pressure? Why wait until they score?
If we don't win the league this season it's our own fault for dropping points in games we shouldn't.

[Ted Hughes]

Where was the rags' onslaught against Swansea or Everton ? It never happened.

They just played like we did; generally poor and uninspired. How many chances did Everton or Swansea create v us ? 1 each ? 2 each ?

Scored 100 % or 50% of possible chances ? What about the rags games v them ? Created lots of chances, scored 0. Just missed them all for no apparent reason. I know the reason; they were playing Utd & they're nervous. They score half of them, Utd dropped 6 points & we're still clear at the top.


It seems as if the script is written about their games without any actual consideration of what actually happened on the pitch on the day. The legend continues.

Incidentally, did West Brom stick everyone behind the ball when they played the rags ? I'll answer that; no. QPR ? No. Swansea ? No. Norwich ? No. Wolves even ? Nope 4 v 4 in their own penalty area in the first ten minutes with Utd often having 6 men behind the ball marking the rest of the Wolves team. Bolton ? No.

Why not ?

Will Wolves & Norwich play an open game v us like they did v rags & let Utd catch them on the break or will they stick everyone behind the ball ? Let's see.

Wigan & Blackburn will get chances to score v rags, just watch. The question is; will they take them ?

Imo. there are two games where Utd played a lot better than us away from home: Fulham & West Brom. We have played better than them home and away, against most teams for most of this season. We now have to play a much stronger Chelsea & Arsenal side than they did, just as we had to play a much stronger Spurs side; twice.

Oh & if a Wigan player handles the ball as last man with Rooney running behind him, will he stay on the pitch ?

[Bridge'srightfoot]

Where was the rags' onslaught against Swansea or Everton ? It never happened.

They just played like we did; generally poor and uninspired. How many chances did Everton or Swansea create v us ? 1 each ? 2 each ?

Scored 100 % or 50% of possible chances ? What about the rags games v them ? Created lots of chances, scored 0. Just missed them all for no apparent reason. I know the reason; they were playing Utd & they're nervous. They score half of them, Utd dropped 6 points & we're still clear at the top.


It seems as if the script is written about their games without any actual consideration of what actually happened on the pitch on the day. The legend continues.

Incidentally, did West Brom stick everyone behind the ball when they played the rags ? I'll answer that; no. QPR ? No. Swansea ? No. Norwich ? No. Wolves even ? Nope 4 v 4 in their own penalty area in the first ten minutes with Utd often having 6 men behind the ball marking the rest of the Wolves team. Bolton ? No.

Why not ?

Will Wolves & Norwich play an open game v us like they did v rags & let Utd catch them on the break or will they stick everyone behind the ball ? Let's see.

Wigan & Blackburn will get chances to score v rags, just watch. The question is; will they take them ?

Imo. there are two games where Utd played a lot better than us away from home: Fulham & West Brom. We have played better than them home and away, against most teams for most of this season. We now have to play a much stronger Chelsea & Arsenal side than they did, just as we had to play a much stronger Spurs side; twice.

They didn't need an onslaught, they were already in the lead. Where was our onslaught? In none of those games did we have an extended period of concerted pressure. They take their chances when they come. But you seem intent on telling yourself they're no better than an average top 6 side. Wigan and Blackburn will get chances, the only difference is so will United.

[Ted Hughes]

Where was the rags' onslaught against Swansea or Everton ? It never happened.

They just played like we did; generally poor and uninspired. How many chances did Everton or Swansea create v us ? 1 each ? 2 each ?

Scored 100 % or 50% of possible chances ? What about the rags games v them ? Created lots of chances, scored 0. Just missed them all for no apparent reason. I know the reason; they were playing Utd & they're nervous. They score half of them, Utd dropped 6 points & we're still clear at the top.


It seems as if the script is written about their games without any actual consideration of what actually happened on the pitch on the day. The legend continues.

Incidentally, did West Brom stick everyone behind the ball when they played the rags ? I'll answer that; no. QPR ? No. Swansea ? No. Norwich ? No. Wolves even ? Nope 4 v 4 in their own penalty area in the first ten minutes with Utd often having 6 men behind the ball marking the rest of the Wolves team. Bolton ? No.

Why not ?

Will Wolves & Norwich play an open game v us like they did v rags & let Utd catch them on the break or will they stick everyone behind the ball ? Let's see.

Wigan & Blackburn will get chances to score v rags, just watch. The question is; will they take them ?

Imo. there are two games where Utd played a lot better than us away from home: Fulham & West Brom. We have played better than them home and away, against most teams for most of this season. We now have to play a much stronger Chelsea & Arsenal side than they did, just as we had to play a much stronger Spurs side; twice.

They didn't need an onslaught, they were already in the lead. Where was our onslaught? In none of those games did we have an extended period of concerted pressure. They take their chances when they come. But you seem intent on telling yourself they're no better than an average top 6 side. Wigan and Blackburn will get chances, the only difference is so will United.

I haven't said any of those things about top 6.

People are telling me they are battering these teams with width & attacking flair. On the whole they've spent most away games all season trying to keep it tight & sighing with relief as the ball whistles past their posts. The image people are portraying of their season is simply not real, unless you think the Wolves game was typical. It wasn't.

[Bridge'srightfoot]

No one has said they're winning by playing with great attacking flair. They're winning because they put their chances away. In fact when was the last time we played really well away from home in the league? I'm struggling to remember.

[Ted Hughes]

No one has said they're winning by playing with great attacking flair. They're winning because they put their chances away. In fact when was the last time we played really well away from home in the league? I'm struggling to remember.

People keep telling me about City's away form, when I don't acyually need telling, as I outed it on here about 6 weeks before anyone else noticed it. Imo, We haven't played like Champions away from home since we beat them (notice how I don't include our away wins at QPR, Wigan, Villa etc in that wheras if it was Utd, that would be 'gritting out results' ).

They have rarely played like Champions home or away all season though imo & are there due to the actions of their opponents & some good fortune with pens etc at the same time as we had a run of bad fortune in successive games. That's why they were able to stick with us at the time, no other reason. Turn those decisions around & we would be 9/10 points clear.

[Original Dub]

People keep telling me about City's away form, when I don't acyually need telling, as I outed it on here about 6 weeks before anyone else noticed it. Imo, We haven't played like Champions away from home since we beat them (notice how I don't include our away wins at QPR, Wigan, Villa etc in that wheras if it was Utd, that would be 'gritting out results' ).

They have rarely played like Champions home or away all season though imo & are there due to the actions of their opponents & some good fortune with pens etc at the same time as we had a run of bad fortune in successive games. That's why they were able to stick with us at the time, no other reason. Turn those decisions around & we would be 9/10 points clear.

I've spoken to rag fans who are amazed they are in the top 2 let alone top.

It is looks quite baffling, but if you mix help from refs, fear from opposition and lumping the ball into the box at every opportunity, then you have every chance to keep up with teams who are missing at least one of those ingredients.

There is no doubt we are the best team in the league but that's not good enough. As you said before we need to be ten points better to win the league and IMO we would be already 7 points ahead if it wasn't for some of the poorest decisions I've seen this season.

Anyway, we are where we are now and presuming we've had our fill of ridiculous decisions, we have the chance to win the league by winning all if not 99% of our games.

That will involve what we've already been doing, coupled with constant pressure on the opposition and lumping the ball into the box again and again when plan a isn't working.

[Ted Hughes]

People keep telling me about City's away form, when I don't acyually need telling, as I outed it on here about 6 weeks before anyone else noticed it. Imo, We haven't played like Champions away from home since we beat them (notice how I don't include our away wins at QPR, Wigan, Villa etc in that wheras if it was Utd, that would be 'gritting out results' ).

They have rarely played like Champions home or away all season though imo & are there due to the actions of their opponents & some good fortune with pens etc at the same time as we had a run of bad fortune in successive games. That's why they were able to stick with us at the time, no other reason. Turn those decisions around & we would be 9/10 points clear.

I've spoken to rag fans who are amazed they are in the top 2 let alone top.

It is looks quite baffling, but if you mix help from refs, fear from opposition and lumping the ball into the box at every opportunity, then you have every chance to keep up with teams who are missing at least one of those ingredients.

There is no doubt we are the best team in the league but that's not good enough. As you said before we need to be ten points better to win the league and IMO we would be already 7 points ahead if it wasn't for some of the poorest decisions I've seen this season.

Anyway, we are where we are now and presuming we've had our fill of ridiculous decisions, we have the chance to win the league by winning all if not 99% of our games.

That will involve what we've already been doing, coupled with constant pressure on the opposition and lumping the ball into the box again and again when plan a isn't working.

Well that's the plan which has always worked for the rags in the past (that & oppo missing open nets, bent refs etc) & it's the one thing they still do which is significantly better than us.

[Rag_hater]

Mr Messi has had 220 shots and scored 58 goals,Tranny has had 284 shots and 53 goals.Are they shit cos they have missed so many?
Or do most strikers miss.
I think poeple miss against the rags because there are a combination of factors that come into play i.e the rags defend well,strikers quite often need a few attempts, there are goalkeepers in the way,probably a few more things aswell.
I dont think they miss against them because they feel obliged to.

[Ted Hughes]

Mr Messi has had 220 shots and scored 58 goals,Tranny has had 284 shots and 53 goals.Are they shit cos they have missed so many?
Or do most strikers miss.
I think poeple miss against the rags because there are a combination of factors that come into play i.e the rags defend well,strikers quite often need a few attempts, there are goalkeepers in the way,probably a few more things aswell.
I dont think they miss against them because they feel obliged to.

Managed to have several goes & completely miss what I'm actually getting at. Like a striker playing v the rags.

[Rag_hater]

Mr Messi has had 220 shots and scored 58 goals,Tranny has had 284 shots and 53 goals.Are they shit cos they have missed so many?
Or do most strikers miss.
I think poeple miss against the rags because there are a combination of factors that come into play i.e the rags defend well,strikers quite often need a few attempts, there are goalkeepers in the way,probably a few more things aswell.
I dont think they miss against them because they feel obliged to.

Managed to have several goes & completely miss what I'm actually getting at. Like a striker playing v the rags.

So tell me what are you getting at?