G14...UeFA...The ECA...FIFA...and CITY

[john68]

Intro
You must forgive me if this thread becomes cumbersome and long winded but the subject is huge and complex and not being a proffessional writer, I can only do it in the best way I know. It is about how European football has been taken over and controlled by a small number of clubs, for their own financial ends and how that scenario is moving now onto the World stage. From clubs, to UeFA to FIFA.

I will do it in instalments and small packages for ease of writing and to hopefully make it more understandable.I would appreciate relevent input from others regarding figures etc to make the subject more complete and accurate.

[Goataldo]

Excellent. This is looming like a big black cloud, and like the officiating problem we face domestically could stand in the way of what would otherwise seem to be inevitable progress.

[john68]

History...Just to give a bit of background info on how it started, Why it started, some of the policies that have been and are still being fought over and some of the figures involved.

The original G14 group (listed below) was founded in 2000 and expanded in 2002 to 18. Only 7 countries' clubs were invited to join, all coming from major Western European football nations. Eastern European clubs were excluded.

2000...ITALY (3) Juventus, Milan, Inter. SPAIN (2) Barca, Real Madrid. GERMANY (2) Bayern Munich, Borrussia Dortmund. ENGLAND(2) Liverpool, The Rags. FRANCE (2) PSG, Marseilles. HOLLAND (2) Ajax, PSV. PORTUGAL (1) Porto.
Expanded in 2002 to 18 clubs...Arsenal, Bayer Leverkusen, Lyon and Valencia.....Italy, Germany, England, Spain, France all now (3), Portugal (1).

In 2006, the CL grossed 750M Euros. Only 10M Eiros were shared out by clubs in the qualifying rounds. 530M Euros were shared by the 32 group stage clubs. The slice for the winners was almost 30M Euros. Added to that were their own gate receipts and a share of the market pool of about 270M Euros. based on their domestic record, their record in European competitions and their TV audiences. Guaranteeing that the bigger clubs rake in the most. The present day figure are significantly higher and i will update them later.

It was under pressure from these elite clubs that UeFA relaxed the entry qualification for the big clubs to ensure that the big clubs always had a permanent nose in the feeding trough.
The small clubs/countries were thrown down to qualification rounds to make room. Playing a little club from Malta doesn't generate enough cash for the bad boys.
Seeding ensured they didn't have to play each other and guaranteed they got an easier ride into the later rounds and a nose into the bigger trough.
Perhaps the worst disaster from a football point of view was that UeFA caved in and changed the financial structure to ensure that payments were also made on a TV audience basis.

That is only some of what the G14 were prior to being disbanded. The New ECA is even more scary.

[john68]

Thanks Goataldo Mate,
The one thing that I have learned from trawling round for info on this; is that the figures involved are astronomical and the greed of this group is horrifying.

There are long running battles over long running issues and it would seem that the ECA hold most of the power, with UeFA fighting a continuous but defiant retreat.

KH Rumminigge is a central figure and has played a central role for a long time. Around 2004, when a new European League was proposed, UeFA threatened, with the backing of FIFA to ban those clubs from all competitions. Rumminigge merely told UeFA that if the ban went ahead, 12 of the G14 clubs were in the Champions League and they would simply (his words) "SHUT THE UeFA SHOP."

The ECA seem happy to comply with UeFA while they are getting what they want but there seems always to be an implicit threat of breaking away if they don't and if UeFA fails to grant them their wishes.

More worrying for me is that the present ECA (of which City is an associate member) have larger support and seem to have set their sights politically higher. Platini to FIFA and Rumminigge to UeFA...Giving the old order the control they always sought.

[bigblue]

Thought this infographic sums up the situation quite well (I didn't make it, was just forwarded to me):



http://i.imgur.com/BJxMO.jpg

[Mikhail Chigorin]

Fascinating thread John; just a pity that the contents are so frightening for football.

[Mingchester Mingy]

Wouldnt a salary cap in the Premeir league be beneficial so that the Wolves and West Albion's arent always at the bottom of the table? I always wondered that !

Great post btw !!!

[Im_Spartacus]

Wouldnt a salary cap in the Premeir league be beneficial so that the Wolves and West Albion's arent always at the bottom of the table? I always wondered that !

Great post btw !!!

A salary cap could only possibly be agreed if it was done globally to take the power away from the player. Because of the reasons given in the graphic above, a club can only get richer if they have better players than the opposition, so a salary cap in this country would be pointless as clubs like City, United, Arsenal, Spuds, Liverpool etc would not be able to compete in Europe, which is where the money is

[Dameerto]

I have a couple of issues with that graphic - first it implies all TV revenue goes to the PL, but it doesn't (it negotiates separately but the football league still has it's own rights to sell) and it ends by saying the current way of splitting TV money in the prem is about to change but it isn't - when the bloke from Liverpool suggested clubs should negotiate individually (like in Spain) he was drowned out by the rest of the clubs eager to state the current system is fine without changes.

[zuricity]

Well at the risk of being repetitive and boring I'll say it again.

All TV monies from a year in the CL, the Europa League, the FA Cup, the FL cup should be equally divied up between all
the clubs that took part in the competition . Except for the CL and Europa ,all the teams in the PL from the previous year should each receive the same amount from these competitions because without the 20 teams being in the PL there would not be four teams going into the CL , and extras going into the Europa league . So Divvy all TV revenues across those twenty teams equally.

Each Cup competition rounds draw should be done like in the lotto, first ball out plays second ball out and so on. In the CL
and Europa league , no weighting of teams from countries.

This will shut up the likes of Rumminegge and Platini and break up the group of fourteen .

This way everything is seen to be fair and the luck of the draw, an is what actually makes a cup competition exciting.

There should no club representatives on the FA board, only candidates voted for by the entire FA.

Oh and while we're at it someone give me license to slap Sepp blatter round the ear next time i go past the FIFA headquarters nearby...

[PALUS]

Wow i generely assum most of this things , not knowing all the numbers but when u see it like this its relly strange that we make this greath sport in to weel Business .This is a great theme and is pleased to read these articles.

[john68]

I have a couple of issues with that graphic - first it implies all TV revenue goes to the PL, but it doesn't (it negotiates separately but the football league still has it's own rights to sell) and it ends by saying the current way of splitting TV money in the prem is about to change but it isn't - when the bloke from Liverpool suggested clubs should negotiate individually (like in Spain) he was drowned out by the rest of the clubs eager to state the current system is fine without changes.

Though you may be right in what you say Mate, I think that the general argument still stands. The author of that graphic makes it plain that the financial gap in the Premier League is "a pain but not insurmountable". He specifically targets European finance as the major problem.

The issue I have been keen to flag up is that these major players on a domestic stage, have not only moved onto the far bigger European stage but are now moving towards a global stage. This has nothing to do with football, it is all about money and greed on a massive scale. The figures involved are almost beyond the imagination.
In their present situation,the rags owing so much is a disaster, in the near future, if they succeed, it won't even be a blip. City are still on real danger of being excluded.

[Im_Spartacus]

Well at the risk of being repetitive and boring I'll say it again.

All TV monies from a year in the CL, the Europa League, the FA Cup, the FL cup should be equally divied up between all
the clubs that took part in the competition . Except for the CL and Europa ,all the teams in the PL from the previous year should each receive the same amount from these competitions because without the 20 teams being in the PL there would not be four teams going into the CL , and extras going into the Europa league . So Divvy all TV revenues across those twenty teams equally.

Football communism?

The ECA would simply throw their toys out of the pram and set up a competition for the top 32 clubs with a format to incrfease the excitement of the competition and make it far more attractive than the CL, draw in the same amount of money, and split it between less clubs.

If for example a £20m prize pool for the FA was split between all league clubs (for example) it is apprx £200k per club regardless of performance - a nice windfall, but I think this would just drive wages up in the lower leagues, which would in turn drive entrance costs up. Fair enough, the further you go the more chance you have got of a decent tv game which would probably double the income, but (even as a supporter of Bury) I have an issue with the prize pot not being proportional to your contribution to the competition.

[john68]

For many years, the football league operated quite successfully with its method of sharing the money. Away teams got a share of the home gate money and all clubs were levied by the FL and money filtered down the League to the lower clubs.

It was the greed of the big clubs that put a halt to that and we saw the birth of the present system. The upshot is that now we all keep our own gate cash and no money filters down to the lower clubs.

Conclusion: Only rarely now do we a smaller club able to compete at a higher level and if they do, they are unable to sustain it. It has made English football largely uncompetitive and destroyed the dream of success for all bar a few big clubs.

Transfer that scenario, multiplied by many thousands of times onto a European or global stage and you have a major problem. A small number of clubs completely dominating and running World football

[Beefymcfc]

Intro
You must forgive me if this thread becomes cumbersome and long winded but the subject is huge and complex and not being a proffessional writer, I can only do it in the best way I know. It is about how European football has been taken over and controlled by a small number of clubs, for their own financial ends and how that scenario is moving now onto the World stage. From clubs, to UeFA to FIFA.

I will do it in instalments and small packages for ease of writing and to hopefully make it more understandable.I would appreciate relevent input from others regarding figures etc to make the subject more complete and accurate.

There's always one!

I've been waiting, this better be good ;-)

Bookmarked.

[john68]

Intro
You must forgive me if this thread becomes cumbersome and long winded but the subject is huge and complex and not being a proffessional writer, I can only do it in the best way I know. It is about how European football has been taken over and controlled by a small number of clubs, for their own financial ends and how that scenario is moving now onto the World stage. From clubs, to UeFA to FIFA.

I will do it in instalments and small packages for ease of writing and to hopefully make it more understandable.I would appreciate relevent input from others regarding figures etc to make the subject more complete and accurate.

There's always one!

I've been waiting, this better be good ;-)

Bookmarked.

Sorry Beefers but due to a close friends illness, I seem to have taken my eye off this issue. So much to do and so little time. I will get back to my trawling and info gathering as soon as time allows.
There is a UeFA/ECA statement due to be released on March 22nd regarding an agreed agenda between the 2 groups. Cosying up and setting their combined stall out before the big push for FiFa? This may be just a settling of outstanding matters eg player insurance etc. Possibly tying up a few loose ends ready for a unified assault at the top.

[zuricity]

Football communism?

The ECA would simply throw their toys out of the pram and set up a competition for the top 32 clubs with a format to incrfease the excitement of the competition and make it far more attractive than the CL, draw in the same amount of money, and split it between less clubs.

If for example a £20m prize pool for the FA was split between all league clubs (for example) it is apprx £200k per club regardless of performance - a nice windfall, but I think this would just drive wages up in the lower leagues, which would in turn drive entrance costs up. Fair enough, the further you go the more chance you have got of a decent tv game which would probably double the income, but (even as a supporter of Bury) I have an issue with the prize pot not being proportional to your contribution to the competition.

no that is not football communism , not at all.

i also think the difference in prize money between the top team and the bottom team should be reduced.

Furthermore i think that Platini is not competent enough for his job and i don't think ffp will really ever take place. ffp will be replaced if only because of the debt so many clubs have, for example man u. it isn't going to work

[john68]

Two events that need flagging up in the last few days:

1...Reported in Friday's Chinner's Bollox, a joint statement from UeFA and the European Commission concerning "Fair Competition.
2...The agreement announced jointly by UeFA and the ECA in Istanbul on a variety of matters.

We know the FFP were designed to ensure the old G14 group secured their places at the trough by shutting the door on newcomers with new money and we also know that from their very aggressive announcement some time ago. UeFA have been continuously and slowly softening the hard tone of the words they have used, almost but not quite, backtracking. We know too that at a meeting held by legal eagles in Manchester and attended by legal representatives from most major English football clubs, it was considered that UeFA would have difficulty implementing hard line penalties such as banning clubs from competition.

Though I have yet to read through the new statement, my 1st thoughts are that UeFA have sought help from the European Commission to strengthen their hand to assert and implement their authority by going to the very top. The European Commission have the power to propose new legislation and should they do so, UeFA would then have the backing of European Law.

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

In the beginning it was the fact that Two of the bigger clubs drew each other (AC and Marseilles maybe) early in the European Cup that was the trigger for the Champions League format. The big clubs wanted to be kept apart 'til later in the piece. How ironic that the former G14 clubs are now looking to play each other MORE often and that the likes of Bate and Rosenborg aren't wanted anymore.
I understand that these powerful clubs are once again meeting with each other outside Uefa's control.

[Im_Spartacus]

Two events that need flagging up in the last few days:

1...Reported in Friday's Chinner's Bollox, a joint statement from UeFA and the European Commission concerning "Fair Competition.
2...The agreement announced jointly by UeFA and the ECA in Istanbul on a variety of matters.

We know the FFP were designed to ensure the old G14 group secured their places at the trough by shutting the door on newcomers with new money and we also know that from their very aggressive announcement some time ago. UeFA have been continuously and slowly softening the hard tone of the words they have used, almost but not quite, backtracking. We know too that at a meeting held by legal eagles in Manchester and attended by legal representatives from most major English football clubs, it was considered that UeFA would have difficulty implementing hard line penalties such as banning clubs from competition.

Though I have yet to read through the new statement, my 1st thoughts are that UeFA have sought help from the European Commission to strengthen their hand to assert and implement their authority by going to the very top. The European Commission have the power to propose new legislation and should they do so, UeFA would then have the backing of European Law.

The EU cannot bar a private individual spending money on whatsoever they want. It is that simple, they cannot impose sanctions on football clubs for this. As i have said previously on the matter, the paralell is those businesses who invest heavily in year 1-5 for a longer term return where they may not see profit or break even for a decade. The principle being suggested would suggest that such a restriction on a football club would be unlawful as it would not be applied to other business sectors and thus is a restraint of trade

If they want to do this properly, the only real option is to introduce a continent-wide salary cap based on the standard of the league in which you play. Although it would in an instant resolve the so called "problem", it would introduce the one thing they are trying to avoid, which is that talent will just go and establish itself in the middle east and asia.