Where's Soccs?

[DoomMerchant]

to defend his man?

i see you online. Say something about it...please. It needs intelligent debate.

thanks.

[john68]

to defend his man?

i see you online. Say something about it...please. It needs intelligent debate.

thanks.

Pushing it a bit there Doomie mate...debate maybe, intelligent debate? Such as we had over the Hughes issue?

[DoomMerchant]

to defend his man?

i see you online. Say something about it...please. It needs intelligent debate.

thanks.

Pushing it a bit there Doomie mate...debate maybe, intelligent debate? Such as we had over the Hughes issue?

are we there again, or nearly? i would admit i was a Hughes licker in the early days, but by the end i wanted to see the back of him, and i'm nearly there with Mancini, John...it saddens me, but i don't think he's the man who will win us the league. He seems afraid and uneasy and i hate the half-hearted games he's trying to play. If he'd come right out and say some of the scripts that Ted's been reading from around how truly half-assed the rags have been there season and how no one will take a run at them because teams are filling up their manginas at the Boo-Hoo We'll Never Win Cafe before a ball is kicked in anger, then i'd think he wants to fight, and fight dirty, but as it is he just comes off as defeated and afraid and he's got no real bite nor bark in my opinion.

i think intelligent debate can be had. for sure. you don't think you and Antti had intelligent debate? Ahem. Cough...cough. Cough.

cheers

[kinkylola]

the fact that you were a hughes licker for as long as you were just goes to show how seriously we should view your opinion on managers.

You've got previous of supporting a manager and then turning ... conveniently just in time to be able to tell someone 'i told you so' ... and I would suspect that it will continue with Mancini, whoever replaces Mancini and so on and so forth.

I'd like to see your 'intelligent debate' played out in anything other than sarcasm and hyperbole ... but somehow I don't think I will.

[john68]

To be quite honest Doomie, I don't think the Hughes debate nor the manner of how it split this site and City fans in general did any good at all. I can feel a similar rumbling starting for Mancini's blood.

I fear Piccs has already painted his banner and is ready to march. There will be others happy with the call to arms. Personally I don't think I could summon the energy to bother arguing. Maybe give the board a wide berth until the lynching party have smacked the horses arse and left him swinging in the breeze.
My white flag is in the wash.
If exhuming the body of Scholes was good enough for Taggart, maybe we should do similar with Swales, now he would please them.

Maybe the best option would be to give control of team affairs to Sean Custis.

[DoomMerchant]

the fact that you were a hughes licker for as long as you were just goes to show how seriously we should view your opinion on managers.

You've got previous of supporting a manager and then turning ... conveniently just in time to be able to tell someone 'i told you so' ... and I would suspect that it will continue with Mancini, whoever replaces Mancini and so on and so forth.

I'd like to see your 'intelligent debate' played out in anything other than sarcasm and hyperbole ... but somehow I don't think I will.

well, you are just full of smart stuff tonite, aren't you?

what do you have to say on the topic, smarty pants? let's have it.

[DoomMerchant]

To be quite honest Doomie, I don't think the Hughes debate nor the manner of how it split this site and City fans in general did any good at all. I can feel a similar rumbling starting for Mancini's blood.

I fear Piccs has already painted his banner and is ready to march. There will be others happy with the call to arms. Personally I don't think I could summon the energy to bother arguing. Maybe give the board a wide berth until the lynching party have smacked the horses arse and left him swinging in the breeze.
My white flag is in the wash.
If exhuming the body of Scholes was good enough for Taggart, maybe we should do similar with Swales, now he would please them.

Maybe the best option would be to give control of team affairs to Sean Custis.

so are you posting just to support the "sarcasm and hyperbole" angle which el oh el aye, Lo-la...is accusing me of stooping to?

i'm not trying to create schism. There's clearly one already. It's worth a conversation. I want Bob to succeed. I want City to succeed. I'm just not sure he's really going to do it, and it's a legit question, isn't it?

And I, like you, was a fan of Hughes early, and esp. his attacking approach and thought he'd get it right eventually. He certainly proved me wrong not only at City, but since then as well. Wrong man for the job, clearly, which is why i supported his removal.

I'm sure it's not just Piccs, CARL and I who are interested in the conversation or the debate about if Mancini is the right man for the job.

[carl_feedthegoat]

I said I would reluctantly accept second place but only if we showed desire and went flat out without any bizarre tactics from Mancini for the remaining games.

Well 1 down so far and we were shit all over the park for the majority of the game.

I am sharpening the knife

[john68]

My apologies Doomie Mate but maybe it's my cynicism.
I think it ironic that there were those who wanted Hughes out, got Hughes out.
WE ARE NO FURTHER ON.

Now some are preparing battle lines to get rid of Mancini and will probably succeed and be happy as fuck.
My gut feeling says in another 2 years time the roundabout will have turned full circle AND WE'LL BE NO FURTHER ON... again.

Maybe Piccs has a banner that just says "OUT" and has a a velcro fastener to stick the current victims name on.

[DoomMerchant]

My apologies Doomie Mate but maybe it's my cynicism.
I think it ironic that there were those who wanted Hughes out, got Hughes out.
WE ARE NO FURTHER ON.

Now some are preparing battle lines to get rid of Mancini and will probably succeed and be happy as fuck.
My gut feeling says in another 2 years time the roundabout will have turned full circle AND WE'LL BE NO FURTHER ON... again.

Maybe Piccs has a banner that just says "OUT" and has a a velcro fastener to stick the current victims name on.

i don't think what either Roger or Carl or Mike want will really make whatever happens, happen. Know what i mean?

i think it's just the feeling that some folks have will maybe, or maybe not, be shared by Khaldoon and others.

i'd LOVE for Mancini to crank up the engine for the last 7 matches and see the team really rally around who's left to play and what's left to play for. if they do that and we see a light on the horizon then i think we'd all agree it will be stupid to chop and change this summer...

[kinkylola]

the fact that you were a hughes licker for as long as you were just goes to show how seriously we should view your opinion on managers.

You've got previous of supporting a manager and then turning ... conveniently just in time to be able to tell someone 'i told you so' ... and I would suspect that it will continue with Mancini, whoever replaces Mancini and so on and so forth.

I'd like to see your 'intelligent debate' played out in anything other than sarcasm and hyperbole ... but somehow I don't think I will.

well, you are just full of smart stuff tonite, aren't you?

what do you have to say on the topic, smarty pants? let's have it.

My thoughts? I like to keep it fairly simple.

We have won the FA Cup. We are going to finish in our highest position in the league for quite a long time, and have champions league next season. In the first half of the season we played probably the best football in the prem, hands down. We have let ourselves down since winter and in all honesty, the league is probably out of our reach at this point. How much of that is down to the manager/tactics and how much of it is down to the players? It's impossible for any of us to say really, we just aren't performing at the level we are capable of. We can blame the manager, we can blame the players ... we can blame the refs!

Personally, I'm tired of changing managers every 2 years or so and even though you can look at this year and say it's a disappointment, we have truly raised the bar performance wise with our early performances this season and it's something that our performances will be measured against for a long time to come. In that light, it's easy to understand why you have the reaction that you do, because comparatively we have been utter shit since Jan.

I just don't feel that the answer is firing Mancini.

[carl_feedthegoat]

the fact that you were a hughes licker for as long as you were just goes to show how seriously we should view your opinion on managers.

You've got previous of supporting a manager and then turning ... conveniently just in time to be able to tell someone 'i told you so' ... and I would suspect that it will continue with Mancini, whoever replaces Mancini and so on and so forth.

I'd like to see your 'intelligent debate' played out in anything other than sarcasm and hyperbole ... but somehow I don't think I will.

well, you are just full of smart stuff tonite, aren't you?

what do you have to say on the topic, smarty pants? let's have it.

My thoughts? I like to keep it fairly simple.

We have won the FA Cup. We are going to finish in our highest position in the league for quite a long time, and have champions league next season. In the first half of the season we played probably the best football in the prem, hands down. We have let ourselves down since winter and in all honesty, the league is probably out of our reach at this point. How much of that is down to the manager/tactics and how much of it is down to the players? It's impossible for any of us to say really, we just aren't performing at the level we are capable of. We can blame the manager, we can blame the players ... we can blame the refs!

Personally, I'm tired of changing managers every 2 years or so and even though you can look at this year and say it's a disappointment, we have truly raised the bar performance wise with our early performances this season and it's something that our performances will be measured against for a long time to come. In that light, it's easy to understand why you have the reaction that you do, because comparatively we have been utter shit since Jan.

I just don't feel that the answer is firing Mancini.

Do you think Mancini is learning from his mistakes?

I dont.

[kinkylola]

It depends on what time frame you use to judge your response.

People said last season that we were too boring, too defensive and it cost us results in the league. This year we come out all guns blazing and take the first half of the season by storm ... most goals scored, best GD and best defense 100% win record at home and great away as well. Seems like something changed to rectify mistakes of the past season to me.

We've fallen off in the second half of the season. If you want to go from game to game trying to say he isn't learning, I don't think you're looking at it in the right way. Each game / each opponent is different, and so if you really want to have a meaningful analysis of the data, you probably have to look at results over a longer period. I would say the smallest meaningful period of time is 6 months. If Mancini hadn't learned from mistakes by next winter, I would be more inclined to agree that it wasn't working right. I don't think that will happen, because I think that Mancini has shown very well that he can adapt the team. Now the team needs to show that it can be consistent. We haven't fallen back into the same problems we encountered previously ... we have a whole new set now. So let's see how Mancini adapts.

edit: I hope no one misinterprets my opinions as somehow being happy, or "ok" with the results we have turned in since the new year. I'm not. It's painful for me. But I don't think the solution is a new manager right now.

[Duckman]

It depends on what time frame you use to judge your response.

People said last season that we were too boring, too defensive and it cost us results in the league. This year we come out all guns blazing and take the first half of the season by storm ... most goals scored, best GD and best defense 100% win record at home and great away as well. Seems like something changed to rectify mistakes of the past season to me.

We've fallen off in the second half of the season. If you want to go from game to game trying to say he isn't learning, I don't think you're looking at it in the right way. Each game / each opponent is different, and so if you really want to have a meaningful analysis of the data, you probably have to look at results over a longer period. I would say the smallest meaningful period of time is 6 months. If Mancini hadn't learned from mistakes by next winter, I would be more inclined to agree that it wasn't working right. I don't think that will happen, because I think that Mancini has shown very well that he can adapt the team. Now the team needs to show that it can be consistent. We haven't fallen back into the same problems we encountered previously ... we have a whole new set now. So let's see how Mancini adapts.

edit: I hope no one misinterprets my opinions as somehow being happy, or "ok" with the results we have turned in since the new year. I'm not. It's painful for me. But I don't think the solution is a new manager right now.

I kinda agree.
Mancini has a problem admitting he made a mistake to himself.
Next season is make or break for him.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

Guy brought us first silverware of my lifetime. There's absolutely no need to defend backing him for managers job. Ever.

[kinkylola]

Guy brought us first silverware of my lifetime. There's absolutely no need to defend backing him for managers job. Ever.

well put

[Original Dub]

Guy brought us first silverware of my lifetime. There's absolutely no need to defend backing him for managers job. Ever.

The argument needs a hell of a lot more than that mate.

Souness wins a pot everywhere he goes. Ramos won a pot for spurs. Dalgleish has won a pot this season for dippers as well as loads of other pots for them before.

Saying there is no need to defend Mancini EVER is a bit blinkered, no?!

I want him for next season but something has gone wrong for the last 3 months in particular.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

Guy brought us first silverware of my lifetime. There's absolutely no need to defend backing him for managers job. Ever.

The argument needs a hell of a lot more than that mate.

Souness wins a pot everywhere he goes. Ramos won a pot for spurs. Dalgleish has won a pot this season for dippers as well as loads of other pots for them before.

Saying there is no need to defend Mancini EVER is a bit blinkered, no?!

I want him for next season but something has gone wrong for the last 3 months in particular.

Ah, but I said there's no need to defend wanting Mancini as our manager when we appointed him. Which as far as I can see is the point of this topic.

There's no such thing as forever in football. Mancini will not be the last manager in my lifetime (assuming of course that I live relatively long). I would never be naive enough to claim that. But for me, no matter what happens in future, FA Cup proved that he was the right man for the job and I'm proud to say that I wanted him long long time before we actually appointed him.

Dalglish was a pretty fantastic manager twenty years ago and despite their league form has proved that he can still do it at reasonable level. Juande Ramos actually managed to fix lot of Spurs problems when he came but went in horrible run to start the following season and was sacked. He wasn't bad manager though.

I can't argue with Souness point though. He has somehow scraped titles despite being godawfull manager. I don't think some younger members quite realise what kind of mess he made of that all conquering Liverpool team despite the fact that he won FA Cup there. They were so dominant, so good, that I swear I could've won a cup with that team.

[Im_Spartacus]

Ah, but I said there's no need to defend wanting Mancini as our manager when we appointed him. Which as far as I can see is the point of this topic.

There's no such thing as forever in football. Mancini will not be the last manager in my lifetime (assuming of course that I live relatively long). I would never be naive enough to claim that. But for me, no matter what happens in future, FA Cup proved that he was the right man for the job and I'm proud to say that I wanted him long long time before we actually appointed him.

Dalglish was a pretty fantastic manager twenty years ago and despite their league form has proved that he can still do it at reasonable level. Juande Ramos actually managed to fix lot of Spurs problems when he came but went in horrible run to start the following season and was sacked. He wasn't bad manager though.

I can't argue with Souness point though. He has somehow scraped titles despite being godawfull manager. I don't think some younger members quite realise what kind of mess he made of that all conquering Liverpool team despite the fact that he won FA Cup there. They were so dominant, so good, that I swear I could've won a cup with that team.

Hence was dalglish actually such a good manager if you could have won the fa cup with that team.

Winning a trophy is a great achievement for a manager, if there is evidence of the managers contribution. We will never forget mancini for bringin that pot home, but it doesnt then give him the right to get us unceremoniously dumped out of all the other cups the following season because of his stupid tinkering and shitbag approach.

End of the day, if bacon made the mistakes mancini had made these last 5 months, you could bet that rag fans would be in a state of civil war, with some saying he has loste plot, and others living on his past glories.

As you say, nothing lasts forever - in this case it seems that the bold, attacking football from earlier in the season has reverted to his dull as dishwater approach from seasons gone by, which is a crying shame.

All we want to see is some fight - preferably before we go behind to a silly counter attacking goal

[kinkylola]

fact is .. there have been points this season when lots of rag fans HAVE said that fergie lost the plot. They will never in their lifetime know a manager that brings such continued success as fergie, but a couple draws and dropped points and a not insignificant number of fans started complaining a lot.

I'd rather not become like that.