Where's Soccs?

[Ted Hughes]

Bacon HAS made all of those mistakes.

Utd have been dumped out of all the Cups, mainly by lesser teams than the ones who dumped us.

[kinkylola]

maybe he doesn't have a plan b? Horrible manager.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

End of the day, if bacon made the mistakes mancini had made these last 5 months, you could bet that rag fans would be in a state of civil war, with some saying he has loste plot, and others living on his past glories.

You have got to be having a fucking laugh. Ferguson started much worse than Mancini and made all sorts of mistakes. Also, they WERE screaming for his head and essentially was one game away from sack.

I'm not saying Mancini will be as good as Ferguson but he is much much better than Ferguson was at the same stage.

[Alioune DVToure]

Guy brought us first silverware of my lifetime. There's absolutely no need to defend backing him for managers job. Ever.

Question, then.

Had Hughes been kept on at the end of 2009 and won us the League Cup in 2010, would you have been in favour of keeping him on?

I can ask this because I didn't want Hughes sacked and I don't want Mancini sacked.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

Guy brought us first silverware of my lifetime. There's absolutely no need to defend backing him for managers job. Ever.

Question, then.

Had Hughes been kept on at the end of 2009 and won us the League Cup in 2010, would you have been in favour of keeping him on?

I can ask this because I didn't want Hughes sacked and I don't want Mancini sacked.

Funnily enough, this hypothetical question was asked numerous of times in different variations during and in immediate aftermath of his tenure. Answer was and is, yes.

May I also remind that right before Hughes was eventually sacked I was willing to give him til the end of the season as there had been slight improvement. Replacing him with far superior manager in Mancini was the right thing to do though.

People STILL subscribe to the myth that I didn't want Hughes ONLY because he was and still is a rag cunt. That was just cherry on top of the shitty cake. Bottom line always was that he wasn't and still isn't really that good of a football manager.

[Swales4ever]

My apologies Doomie Mate but maybe it's my cynicism.
I think it ironic that there were those who wanted Hughes out, got Hughes out.
WE ARE NO FURTHER ON.

Now some are preparing battle lines to get rid of Mancini and will probably succeed and be happy as fuck.
My gut feeling says in another 2 years time the roundabout will have turned full circle AND WE'LL BE NO FURTHER ON... again.

Maybe Piccs has a banner that just says "OUT" and has a a velcro fastener to stick the current victims name on.

i don't think what either Roger or Carl or Mike want will really make whatever happens, happen. Know what i mean?

i think it's just the feeling that some folks have will maybe, or maybe not, be shared by Khaldoon and others.

i'd LOVE for Mancini to crank up the engine for the last 7 matches and see the team really rally around who's left to play and what's left to play for. if they do that and we see a light on the horizon then i think we'd all agree it will be stupid to chop and change this summer...

I am biased toward Mancini despited I am too much self-centered for taking personal heroes. and I do beacause I saw the evoluntion of his football genius since he joined Sampdoria when he was 16. He has always been a football manager even when he was playing on the pitch. I'd say he is a football addict bar none. The development of his managing carreer shows that he has a clear idea of what it takes to set up a football project and he has already proven tywice by turning upsidedown possibly the two biggest mess in modern football: Inter and City. In both cases he had been able to identify weaknesses of both Clubs, corrected them with heavy but dignified hand and put the basis for success. He has clearly made mistakes as everyone human, particularly this season by not resting David Silva for the whole time it should be needed, but I firmly believe he is building solid success for the future. Nobody can or should forget that he is only running his second full season having already delivered a major silwareware, while Master SAF, who is a bastard but certainly not an inept manager, took 5 years.
My vision is that he's gonna be Bobby Manc for the next 6-10 years and then shall pass the helm to a fully experienced Brendan Rodgers.
As Doomie says the only opinion that will assess his fate are those of Khaldoon and HH the Sheikh and I am gratefull of that because they are wise and competent businessmen of rare ability.
I hardly believe they are gonna reshufling the pot pending the first mandate of their choosen man, but should they perceive any different I will be fine and confident over the bright future of MCFC. None is irreplaceable in this world.

What I care most is the urgency to see all the life long suffering Blues wanking themself in joy around Manchester town after MCFC become England's champions first and Europe's then. Whether it will happen with Mancini, Guardiola, Bielsa or Rodgers at the helm frankly I don't care... just save me 2 years of Mourinho's masquerades.

[PeterParker]

Cruyff said something a while back and it goes like this : I would prefere facing B type of manager that has available an A type of team, intead of some A type of manager, that has a B type of squad.

That can be the case with Bob here. I really want him to have succes, but my mind tells me he won't do it. Looking back at his manager career, we might say he didn't do something off the chart. He won a lot of things with Inter, but in a period where the calciopoli scandal was in prime time and Inter had a lot of ref help. In Europe he didn't do anything notable with them, although Moratti invested a lot of money in the squad.

He has three huge flaws that i think only one can be fixed:

1) And the only thing he can solve, we started the season at full power, instead of growing game after game and after the win on QPR, we started looking tired. From there we went down. He didn't know how to calculate that it will be a long battle and we need to stay sharp, even if he had title chases experience with Inter.

2) I really haven't seen not even once a bond between him and the players (expect with Mario). I really wanted for a player to score and go hug or celebrate with Bobby. So many training incidents, many bad player decision, argues and so on. I don't think the players have huge confidence in him and i really don't think they will ever have and this is because of his constant protection for Mario, although many of him team mates like him, they can't be very delighted when he does what he does and still Bobby gives him chances, and for others he doesn't and of course, for his incidents with Herman.

3) His tactical bizzarness. This subject has been talked over and over, so there is no need to get in to it.

All in all, like Carl said, Bob didn't learn from his mistakes and i don't think he will.

The most important thing for us is the sake of the club, not the manager and we need trophies year after year to grow.

[bigblue]

2) I really haven't seen not even once a bond between him and the players (expect with Mario). I really wanted for a player to score and go hug or celebrate with Bobby.

I take it you don't watch any of the Inside City or other videos on the OS? 90% of the players seem to get along great with him. Quit spouting media garbage. High pressure and passion leads to confrontation. Don't mean you dislike someone just because you want to win.

All in all, like Carl said, Bob didn't learn from his mistakes and i don't think he will.

I have to agree with Kinky that if you don't think Bob is learning, your time frame is too narrow. Just look at the improvement in our style of play from last year to this.

Every team can go through a rough patch, the ones who actually have patience can see the rewards at the end. I would 100% City rather have a stable manager situation like arse or the scum, rather than being a Madrid or Chelsea and changing managers based on how the wind blows. Having a new manager of the month each year brings the hope of a trophy or two for that year. Having a stable manager brings the possibility of a dynasty.

[PeterParker]

2) I really haven't seen not even once a bond between him and the players (expect with Mario). I really wanted for a player to score and go hug or celebrate with Bobby.

I take it you don't watch any of the Inside City or other videos on the OS? 90% of the players seem to get along great with him. Quit spouting media garbage. High pressure and passion leads to confrontation. Don't mean you dislike someone just because you want to win.

On the contrary, i watch those every week, but i haven't seen that in a game. It was Mario doing that "i'm sorry, dad" with Everton, but that was the only one i saw that since he came here as a manager, instead we saw a shit load of bench incidents with Herman, Dzeko, Gazbaz and Boateng.
Hope there won't be the case, but if got sacked i really don't fancy seeing the squad having a breakdown.

There is a little difference between learning from mistakes and the way we play. Bob is doing the same mistakes he did since day one and that is the changes and lineups and of course, the tactical approach in games with lower teams. We had problems with smaller teams (away) almost every season.
I haven't heard so far a critic of our style of play, but i've heard people talking about the fact we don't know how to handle difficult moments in a game.

[bigblue]

2) I really haven't seen not even once a bond between him and the players (expect with Mario). I really wanted for a player to score and go hug or celebrate with Bobby.

I take it you don't watch any of the Inside City or other videos on the OS? 90% of the players seem to get along great with him. Quit spouting media garbage. High pressure and passion leads to confrontation. Don't mean you dislike someone just because you want to win.

On the contrary, i watch those every week, but i haven't seen that in a game. It was Mario doing that "i'm sorry, dad" with Everton, but that was the only one i saw that since he came here as a manager, instead we saw a shit load of bench incidents with Herman, Dzeko, Gazbaz and Boateng.
Hope there won't be the case, but if got sacked i really don't fancy seeing the squad having a breakdown.

This is going back to our other discussion where you seemed to think that Mancini should be giving international level players support during a game. I don't want to see Mancini bonding with the players on game day, I want to see them get a job done.

When we have a big sales pitch at work, we're not having bonding moments when doing the presentation. We focus on finishing the presentation, then grab drinks afterwards and laugh. And if someone fucks up during the pitch, you best believe that others will let him know in the most frank way possible, so they don't repeat the mistake again (because we want to win).

This is pro football not an under 9 game.

[PeterParker]

2) I really haven't seen not even once a bond between him and the players (expect with Mario). I really wanted for a player to score and go hug or celebrate with Bobby.

I take it you don't watch any of the Inside City or other videos on the OS? 90% of the players seem to get along great with him. Quit spouting media garbage. High pressure and passion leads to confrontation. Don't mean you dislike someone just because you want to win.

On the contrary, i watch those every week, but i haven't seen that in a game. It was Mario doing that "i'm sorry, dad" with Everton, but that was the only one i saw that since he came here as a manager, instead we saw a shit load of bench incidents with Herman, Dzeko, Gazbaz and Boateng.
Hope there won't be the case, but if got sacked i really don't fancy seeing the squad having a breakdown.

This is going back to our other discussion where you seemed to think that Mancini should be giving international level players support during a game. I don't want to see Mancini bonding with the players on game day, I want to see them get a job done.

When we have a big sales pitch at work, we're not having bonding moments when doing the presentation. We focus on finishing the presentation, then grab drinks afterwards and laugh. And if someone fucks up during the pitch, you best believe that others will let him know in the most frank way possible, so they don't repeat the mistake again (because we want to win).

This is pro football not a under 9 game.

Those bonds can reflect the relation that he has with players. Players gathering around the manager can show the fact that they are willing to fight for other than their paycheck, they want to fight for the manager, to win for him so he will be here the next season. He is their "dad" they see him almost every day and know he might go if he fails to deliver, so instead of helping him, they play weird, with no passion, just for the sake of ending the season and go to their holiday.

[Im_Spartacus]

You have got to be having a fucking laugh. Ferguson started much worse than Mancini and made all sorts of mistakes. Also, they WERE screaming for his head and essentially was one game away from sack.

I'm not saying Mancini will be as good as Ferguson but he is much much better than Ferguson was at the same stage.

Im talking about now. I dont give a flying fuck about mistakes fergie may have made 20 odd years ago. And lets not pretend that we are at the same stage as bacon was with united, as that argument is fucking ridiculous - to start with, our manager has won 3 serie a titles dont you know - in theory we have got the real deal, wheras for all the rags knew, they had just signed neil lennon as manager.

It is not too long ago that many would have run mancini out of town for his style of play and mistakes. We had a respite of around 7 months from april to november, now we are back to where we were last season.

The FA cup and a bold style of play bought him time, he used that time initially well, but has slowly but surely been losing his arse. Whether its complacency or what, i dont know, but we now have the mancini back who many of us cant fucking stand.

[bigblue]

He is their "dad" they see him almost every day and know he might go if he fails to deliver, so instead of helping him, they play weird, with no passion, just for the sake of ending the season and go to their holiday.

Once again, you think this is a youth game where the coach is holding their hand and wiping their snot. The players will fight for themselves, each other, and the fans. Once we win a title, players will be ready to kill for Bob. But they don't need a dad in the meantime. If a player isn't motivated enough from their own personal drive for success, they can fuck off and don't deserve to be paid to play football.

[DoomMerchant]

i would contend that our early season form was in fact a surprise to Mancini, and was also in spite of him and not because of him.

He often looked very surprised at how fantastic we were.

I don't believe he planned for us to peak that early or to be that fantastic. Both of which are problematic at worst and amusing at best.

It's just a point of note, and not a dagger. Although, it is a 'pointed' note of interest i suppose when couched as such.

cheers

[zuricity]

I think Roberto will be our manager next season. I think that if he feels he needs to sell Balo or Vincent, Edin or Tevez he will.

He will be a success at City, he already is with just less than 20% of the season to go.

United comfortably won the league with 80 points and a better team than they have this season.

How on earth such things can collude together such as things like Crouch's wonder strike or united winning games they don't deserve to even draw is beyond us mortals. Sunderland's first offside goal on Saturday.... Strange things indeed.

21 points still to play for. I'm loving every minute of it

we must plod on and seek to win every game as we have done so far all season.

[bigblue]

Whether its complacency or what, i dont know, but we now have the mancini back who many of us cant fucking stand.

I'd suggest that the problem isn't with Mancini, but with fickle fans who have no patience, expect us to beat every team 3-0, and think the grass is always greener on the other side. Have some stomach for the fight when the going gets tough. A player then manager like Mancini doesn't suddenly lose his class and football intelligence in a few months.

FFS this club has waited over 40 years for a league title, we're this close, and some people want to jumble the pot/press the reset button - all because a few bad months of form? Maybe we should just sack half the squad too and buy all new players, these ones are shit anyways.

If you can't stand Mancini, it's not because of him. It's because you're a short-term thinking, immediate gratification seeking fan with the attention span of a pigeon.

[Im_Spartacus]

I'd suggest that the problem isn't with Mancini, but with fickle fans who have no patience, expect us to beat every team 3-0, and think the grass is always greener on the other side. Have some stomach for the fight when the going gets tough. A player then manager like Mancini doesn't suddenly lose his class and football intelligence in a few months.

FFS this club has waited over 40 years for a league title, we're this close, and some people want to jumble the pot/press the reset button - all because a few bad months of form? Maybe we should just sack half the squad too and buy all new players, these ones are shit anyways.

If you can't stand Mancini, it's not because of him. It's because you're a short-term thinking, immediate gratification seeking fan with the attention span of a pigeon.

And herein lies the reasons fans are infighting, people like you who have zero tolerance for other people's point of view and resort to insults and name calling because somebody doesnt share your particular point of view. Your like have a very obvious calling card, and you cant fail to mention it in your post......i don't give an hapenny fuck that we have waited 40 years since winning a league title, it is totally irrelevant in the light of owners who have invested very heavily, something that we have not had for 40 years, so you can stick your 40 years up your arse for all the relevance it has to today.

I personally, in the big scheme of things dont give a fuck whether we win the league this year, next year or some other time n the future, because i am confident it is coming. Until fairly recently, i held a view that it would come under Mancini, and that he had changed his spots from the dull as dishwater, stubborn manager who almost did the unthinkable in the first 12 months of his tenure, namely have me seriously consider finding other things to do on a saturday afternoon.

The football was soulless, the players listless, the fans subdued because of what they were seeing on the pitch. He blew the top 4 by bottling it the run in vs spurs, arsenal and others who were there for the taking, and he cost us a cup final by bottling it at the swamp, when a cup final had virtually been handed to him on a plate. Then something clicked last april and it all changed for the better. Only to revert back to the stubborn mancini, listless players, stupid substitutions, idiotic tactics.

So, if i want to express my opinion that i dont have confidence in mancini, because there are crystal clear indications that he is reverting to type (the fact that he may have blown the league because he has been unable to deal with the challenges set him is largely incidental to me, it is the inability to learn and adapt i have an issue with), what the fuck has 40 years got to do with your argument. If you want to debate the reasons why i feel the way i do about our game, fine, but if you wAnt to attack the poster, not their opinions, go and direct your condescending bullshit to the 12 year olds on blue moon.

[Blue Since 76]

I'd suggest that the problem isn't with Mancini, but with fickle fans who have no patience, expect us to beat every team 3-0, and think the grass is always greener on the other side. Have some stomach for the fight when the going gets tough. A player then manager like Mancini doesn't suddenly lose his class and football intelligence in a few months.

FFS this club has waited over 40 years for a league title, we're this close, and some people want to jumble the pot/press the reset button - all because a few bad months of form? Maybe we should just sack half the squad too and buy all new players, these ones are shit anyways.

If you can't stand Mancini, it's not because of him. It's because you're a short-term thinking, immediate gratification seeking fan with the attention span of a pigeon.

There's two ways to look at the football under Mancini:

1) we started out slowly whilst he changed the team and learned about the league and that eventually allowed us to play like we did before Xmas. Since then is just a blip which we will get over.

2) August to Xmas was a complete fluke and once Mancini coached it out of them we returned to the rubbish football we were entertained by last season

Only time will tell which half of this season was the blip. My concern is that the team and manager have last their mojo and have no idea how to get it back. We only really look dangerous when needing several goals in the last 10 minutes, which raises questions about preparation beforehand.

PS I have no problem with the team not hugging Mancini - I don't recall anyone ever hugging Taggart till a title was won. However, petulant acts leaving the pitch don't usually happen for the rags, so whilst I'm not arsed if they're happy, I am concerned about the level of respect they have for Mancini. Maybe his relationship with Mario has affected others, but it needs sorting.

[bigblue]

Until fairly recently, i held a view that it would come under Mancini, and that he had changed his spots from the dull as dishwater, stubborn manager who almost did the unthinkable in the first 12 months of his tenure, namely have me seriously consider finding other things to do on a saturday afternoon.

The football was soulless, the players listless, the fans subdued because of what they were seeing on the pitch. He blew the top 4 by bottling it the run in vs spurs, arsenal and others who were there for the taking, and he cost us a cup final by bottling it at the swamp, when a cup final had virtually been handed to him on a plate.

I take it you don't remember Mourinho's first year for Chelsea then? It's a common tactic to build a winning team on a solid defense. Exactly what Mourinho did at Chelsea, and what Mancini has done with us. And to those who say that our defense isn't as good this year - check this out as a reminder that we still have the #1 defense in the league:

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/tables/_/l ... ue?cc=5901

Also, I posted this in the other thread (so you can find the source there), but despite everyone talking about a dreadful 2012 - we would only be 2 points behind the rags if the league started on Jan 1. To talk of replacing our manager right now is crazy (as in loony bin crazy), and since you get so offended by what In really think of your opinion, I'll leave it at that.

PS I have no problem with the team not hugging Mancini - I don't recall anyone ever hugging Taggart till a title was won. However, petulant acts leaving the pitch don't usually happen for the rags, so whilst I'm not arsed if they're happy, I am concerned about the level of respect they have for Mancini. Maybe his relationship with Mario has affected others, but it needs sorting.

If you're going to compare antics such as not hugging with pre-winning scum, also compare "petulant acts" from the same era too. The fact is that success bring respect. When we are beating teams 4-0, all the players love Bob. When we tie Sunderland at home the players hate Bob, themselves, and everything around them (and rightfully so). It's the attitude of a group who demand success.

But as I was talking about above, the key for sustainable success is for all the players to know a common system and react instantaneously in the game as a single team. Roberto has laid the foundation for the system, has established himself as the authoritative figure above any player, and has helped City to play some of the best football in recent memory. Too much blame on Bob, too little on the actual players on the field.

We've invested 1.5 years into a particular manager. His coaching staff, philosophy, and style has permeated the club from top to bottom. To change managers now would reset all of this progress, without any guarantee that the next man would do better (since results wise, he has to do a damn good job to beat Bob). Have a bit of faith instead of running at the first sign of trouble

[Im_Spartacus]

But i dont hink anyone is advocating mancini be sacked right now are they.

I think most posters realise we have a decent manager but that he does have limitations, and that change without a definate better option in the wings would not be a good thing. But it still doesnt mean though that we have to be uncritical of challenges he has clearly failed to adapt to.

I dont like him because i think he is a bottler - with a proven track record for us of being a bottler......anyone remember the united game in 2010? He is reverting back to that now with his selections and tactics, because he faces a problem he oesnt know how to deal with.

For me, the position wih mancini is not hat he should be sacked forthwith, but hat there has to be a realistic view that all the options have to be on the table regarding his future