Mancini has to go?

[Ted Hughes]

Mancini got rid of Craig Bellamy. A few hotheads on here may have agreed but most City fans were mortified & rightly so, it was one of the all time worst managerial decisions but because he was replacing Hughes, he got away with it.

And Bellamy's been ok in the Championship and a bit part player for a mid-table side in the time since he left us. Not quite as bad a move as you are making out, I feel.

Yes, you can argue he won a cup, but so did the players who were brought in to replace him. Plus bellamy would not have won that cup without a fuckin dickhead fat bent cunt shitbag fucking twatlips ref giving an anfield penalty for fuck all.

It was a great big fat stupid pissflapping fucking cock up.

My point isn't to argue about that, it is to highlight the fact that new managers don't always see things the way the fans do or do what they want.

[Ted Hughes]

Mancini (and the players) has made a mess of the last part of the season. Whether or not we make a turn around and win our last 6 games of the season - our drop in form has been remarkable. However, I fully believe that replacing Mancini would be a step back for us, at least looking over the coming 5 years. Mancini had us playing the best football in England and we were a pure joy to watch. He has made plenty of mistakes during the season and at points I think he's to stubborn to admit it and make corresponding changes. However, I'm sure he knows what's he's done wrong and I'm confident Mancini will up his act come next season. I truly believe he would get us playing at a more consistent level throughout next season.

The last six games of the season is key here though - they will clearly tell how Mancini get his act together, but more importantly - how the players responds to their manager´s guidance. If the team show true fighting spirit and grit come the last games of the season; Mancini is my man for the next season (seasons that should be).

Long term thinking is the most important thing here - and I think Mancini is a better bet than Mourinho/Guardiola and the other usual victims ppl drag up here.

Good points there pro keeping Mancini.

My overall view on Mancini is that he is a good manager but I rate him in a similar boat to Benitez. I think he is in the second tier of manager. I think theres enough out there that are better.

If we can get a manager in whose perceved as a better bet than Mancini, why shouldnt we go for it?

Mancini has made alot of mistakes this season and looking at the squad, if he is to stay, theres a fair proportion of them that could/should be out of the door. Adebayor, Tevez, Balotelli, Dzeko, Santa Cruz, Weiss, Pizarro, Hargreaves, both Johnsons, Kolo, Savic, Kolorov, Bridge, Boyata.

Maybe even Nasri, Milner, Barry and De jong could come into it.

My question is, is there someone out there who could mould the squad we have now, minus Balo of course, int a championship winning team based on the competition we have in the league?

I think yes. And with FFP that seems the most cost effective option to me aswell.

It's 50/50 a new bloke will build around Tevez.

If we can't get Mourinho (who I don't want) or Guardiola (who I think may take several years to settle) who do we bring in ?

[PeterParker]

If someone else, well not someone else, but Maureen will be the next manager, i don't think he will sell that much. Imho, we have the players that every manager would want, except Herman and Mario, two blocks that are in pole position of leaving us. The rest are great players that everyone will want & most important, they aren't trouble makers.

As i said before, although i don't believe him, Mourinho said he wants to settle to a club in England for many years, not just 2 or 3. So if he will come here, we could lose Mario, but win Dzeko, Adebayor and most important Herman, which homesickness is more a fuck off mancini thing.

It won't happen again the Hughes story,the stories with Robinho, Adeba, Bellers, Given, etc & bad for Bob, i don't think any player will go to the sheik, like they did with Hughes, and try to save Bob's job.

I don't believe in Pep's project. I've seen him without Messi and they are clueless & Stoke, Norwich, Everton trips will murder him, like they did with Mancini.

[Grob]

It's 50/50 a new bloke will build around Tevez.

If we can't get Mourinho (who I don't want) or Guardiola (who I think may take several years to settle) who do we bring in ?

Maybe a new manager would build around Tevez. That would be a mistake though due to his personal circumstance and whats gone on and I would hope that any manager that came in would come to the same conclusion as Mancini that we cant go forward with him. Tevez doesnt want to be here, that should be enough to convince someone, anyone, that he should be gone.

I think Mourinho would assemble this lot into a championship winning team with maybe 1 or 2 additions and departures from the first team squad.

I think in Europe we are 5 to 6 players short though. And thats before experience and having the right temprament throughout the team comes into the mix.

I think a safe option would be to look at managers who in the past have got the better of Fergie. Mourinho, Wenger, Anchelotti. Its a short list sadly.

If we could get Mourinho I would make the change. If we couldnt then there isnt another stand out candidate for me outsde of Wenger and Anchelotti, both of whom I very much doubt would either come or be available.

So if we cant get Mourinho, we should stick with Mancini for me for next season. I wouldnt give him a new contract either, I'd offer him a pot of gold at the end of the season if he hits his objectives, i.e. the league, a cup final, and a good run in the champs league (QF's worst).

[Arjan Van Schotte]

As someone said earlier - i'm tempted to see how he/the team respond over the rest of the games now that the league has gone. Will he have learned from his mistakes?

I guess at this level you can judge a manager on a few specific things?

a) tactics - his tactics at the start of the season took everyone by surprise - and got results. until teams figured out how we were playing, and then goals became harder to come by. our away form since december has been woeful - and i'd put a lot of that down to his tactics. How many times have we been screaming from the start about obvious flaws in the team strategy - only for mancini to spot it too late/not at all? playing kolo at bayern, playing savic at all.

b) man management - none of us can be sure what goes on behind closed doors, but he certainly seems to have fallen out with quite a few players, and you do have to question how such a talented squad can fold so easily in such a short space of time.

c) purchases - in the last 2 seasons we have spent around £230M on players - and have any of them proved to be unqualified successes (or indeed value for money)? I'd argue that yaya and silva have. Clichy is probably well worth the £7M. Now, for the rest - have we made good players go bad/average or were they just bad purchases? In all honesty, although we paid over the odds for a few, i couldn't really argue with any of the buys at the time (although why he bought dzeko to play in the system we do i have to question - it's like bobby had never actually seen him play...).

For me, the main problem in the latter half of the season is that we haven't frightened teams enough - they've felt confident in the main to have a go at us. The only exceptions i can think of have been stoke and blackburn at home.

We'll hopefully finish 2nd with a good points haul - a great basis to push on and win this league and have a good crack at europe. for me, what we need now is someone to build a TEAM with a fluent game-to-game strategy/tactics. we don't need lots of new players - we need a great man-manager.

on that basis i'd get rid. i did say i'd give him the rest of the season - but the fact is, if we continue to fold horribly - he has to go. If we go on and win the rest of the games, well, the pressure is off now isn't it.

[Ted Hughes]

It's 50/50 a new bloke will build around Tevez.

If we can't get Mourinho (who I don't want) or Guardiola (who I think may take several years to settle) who do we bring in ?

Maybe a new manager would build around Tevez. That would be a mistake though due to his personal circumstance and whats gone on and I would hope that any manager that came in would come to the same conclusion as Mancini that we cant go forward with him. Tevez doesnt want to be here, that should be enough to convince someone, anyone, that he should be gone.

I think Mourinho would assemble this lot into a championship winning team with maybe 1 or 2 additions and departures from the first team squad.

I think in Europe we are 5 to 6 players short though. And thats before experience and having the right temprament throughout the team comes into the mix.

I think a safe option would be to look at managers who in the past have got the better of Fergie. Mourinho, Wenger, Anchelotti. Its a short list sadly.

If we could get Mourinho I would make the change. If we couldnt then there isnt another stand out candidate for me outsde of Wenger and Anchelotti, both of whom I very much doubt would either come or be available.

So if we cant get Mourinho, we should stick with Mancini for me for next season. I wouldnt give him a new contract either, I'd offer him a pot of gold at the end of the season if he hits his objectives, i.e. the league, a cup final, and a good run in the champs league (QF's worst).

If we keep Bob though, surely we have to give him the funds to fix the squad now he has had chance to learn from his own mistakes or we would just be treading water ? If we do give him money, would we not then have to give him more time to refine those new players or otherwise, a new man arrives with a squad full of Mancini bought newish players & no options ?

[Sideshow Bob]

having had some time to cool off since the match yesterday, i am (slightly) less inclined to dump bob, for all of the reasons ted has given. a new mgr could make matters much worse. our early season form showed that bob is capable. with just a bit of luck, we could have won at least the CC and PL this season.

[Esky]

Not the point of the thread, but wasn't the penalty in the League Cup from Savic making a ridiculous challenge in the box? Can't remember the ref screwing up there. Officiating was awful in the league though - cost us two points.

[Ted Hughes]

Not the point of the thread, but wasn't the penalty in the League Cup from Savic making a ridiculous challenge in the box? Can't remember the ref screwing up there. Officiating was awful in the league though - cost us two points.

The handball against Micah in the second leg, after it hit his leg & bounced up to his arm in a totally innoccent accident, was a typical Anfield con job.

[Esky]

Not the point of the thread, but wasn't the penalty in the League Cup from Savic making a ridiculous challenge in the box? Can't remember the ref screwing up there. Officiating was awful in the league though - cost us two points.

The handball against Micah in the second leg, after it hit his leg & bounced up to his arm in a totally innoccent accident, was a typical Anfield con job.

Oh yeah, forgot about that one. Fair enough.

[Mingchester Mingy]

He has lost us the title plain and simple because he reverted to his roots.Plus he carried on gratiating his favourite Balotelli who imo has caused more unrest than the Tevez saga ever did he has to go.

I still think that the whole Tevez thing could have been avoided and that what happened in Bayern may be some of Mancini fault....on the fence on whether he has to go or not, but lean towards him getting out of town.

I think for a replacement, you look within the club.

[EEE]

My overall view on Mancini is that he is a good manager but I rate him in a similar boat to Benitez. I think he is in the second tier of manager. I think theres enough out there that are better.

If we can get a manager in whose perceved as a better bet than Mancini, why shouldnt we go for it?

Mancini has made alot of mistakes this season and looking at the squad, if he is to stay, theres a fair proportion of them that could/should be out of the door. Adebayor, Tevez, Balotelli, Dzeko, Santa Cruz, Weiss, Pizarro, Hargreaves, both Johnsons, Kolo, Savic, Kolorov, Bridge, Boyata.

Maybe even Nasri, Milner, Barry and De jong could come into it.

My question is, is there someone out there who could mould the squad we have now, minus Balo of course, int a championship winning team based on the competition we have in the league?

I think yes. And with FFP that seems the most cost effective option to me aswell.

It's 50/50 a new bloke will build around Tevez.

If we can't get Mourinho (who I don't want) or Guardiola (who I think may take several years to settle) who do we bring in ?

1. Well, if we can get a manager that we believe is a better bet than Mancini it's dead simple - bring him in. Problem though is that I don't think there are many such managers around.

2. I agree with your point that we could save some dosh by bringing in a manager that could use players that Mancini can't since he already ruled them out/he haven't been able to bring the best out of them. Most players you're mentioning though are just not good enough for our level (being bad signings by Mancini our not). The ones that are could be used by another manager but not Mancini would be Tevez, Adebayor and maybe Johnson.

3. Most likely it will cost us a lot more to bring in a new manager though (talking dosh here). Except for the costs of sacking Mancini and bringing in Mourinho/Guardiola/X - the new manager always wants to put their label on the squad by shipping out a few and bringing in another couple of "their own signings". If Mourinho/Guardiola/X wont win the league next season they would use the argument that they still had to inherit Mancinis old squad and thereby have to bring in another 3-4 players come season 2013/2014. If Mourinho/Guardiola/X still wont win it that season "we all would want him out" and the mentioned cycle would start over again with another "promising" manager.

4. Even though FFP must be taken into consideration; the only factor as to why I want to keep Mancini is that I believe he will make Manchester City achieve better results next season (and the coming 5 seasons) than any other manager. I believe, like Ted, that it will take Guardiola quite some time to get used to the EPL and that he will miss Spain and move home within 3 years. As for Mourinho, I'm not so sure he will deliver us the title nxt season as everyone else seem dead certation about. The biggest risk with Mourinho though is that he wont stay with us more than 2-3 seasons (titles or not).

5. Even though my man for next season (and the ones coming after that) is Mancini for now. The last 6 games could make me change my mind. And obviously there's a lot of things happening behind the doors that we have don't a fucking clue about. Mancini might have requirements (regarding investments etc) that our owners can't meet.

Ps. As for the ones who´s interested in what the FFP actually means and how we're doing financially - make sure to check out the Swiss Rambler if you haven't yet done so. Excellent analysis of FFP and our "Masterplan". http://swissramble.blogspot.de/2011/12/ ... rplan.html

[Grob]

If we keep Bob though, surely we have to give him the funds to fix the squad now he has had chance to learn from his own mistakes or we would just be treading water ? If we do give him money, would we not then have to give him more time to refine those new players or otherwise, a new man arrives with a squad full of Mancini bought newish players & no options ?

I'd give him funds to buy maybe 2 first team players first and foremost, then any more would be dependent on how many we can shift.

I think if Mancini ends up staying, around half the squad (i'm including the Mcgiverns, Cunninghams, Boyata's, Adebayors, Bridges, Santa Cruz's and Weiss's of the squad in that statement too) will have to be moved on. Which I dont think would be a bad thing.

[Grob]

4. Even though FFP must be taken into consideration; the only factor as to why I want to keep Mancini is that I believe he will make Manchester City achieve better results next season (and the coming 5 seasons) than any other manager. I believe, like Ted, that it will take Guardiola quite some time to get used to the EPL and that he will miss Spain and move home within 3 years. As for Mourinho, I'm not so sure he will deliver us the title nxt season as everyone else seem dead certation about. The biggest risk with Mourinho though is that he wont stay with us more than 2-3 seasons (titles or not).

I dont think Guardiola is the immediate answer, i think he would take time to adapt if he did come which could be a 3 season thing and not ideal.

I think if Mourinho came we would win the league next season. Thats my opinion and I think the mans record backs that up.

[brite blu sky]

Hardly a single post in this thread talking any sense at all, not surprising though we are all pissed off.

There is only one pill to swallow and right now it is big, very big, so big it will stick in your throat till next season. That pill is called PATIENCE

sorry but that's about it.

Mancini by the way is allowed to make mistakes, multiple times. This team is not ready, certain individuals are not ready. Despite appearances earlier in the season, the team may well know this themselves. No-one is stepping up, no-one taking responsibility, no-one trying to dictate the pace. City only have two players who have shown they can do that, Silva and Yaya. The English boys can't do it and the experienced prem players brought in also can't do it (yet).
We have seen the team performances slowly fall apart as the pressure has increased... they cannot yet hack it and they collectively don't know how to get themselves out of trouble when the key players are not there. They can all pass the ball till they go blind... but have deep down not got the trust in each other to resort to even that and pass their way out of trouble. Imo most of those players know that there are certain linchpins to the side and without them the confidence shrinks back.

Now this may or may not be Mancini's fault, but it is his responsibility to address it. My argument is that generally it would take longer than one season.
It is foolish to rely on any one player. Silva and Yaya play different roles but both are able to control games, Mancini got Nasri to extend that.. he hasn't been able to. Yaya apparently has no equal.
Watching Milner and Barry yesterday struggling to even chase the game never mind get a grip of it.. i actually felt a bit sorry for Mancini. City have good players but if they are incapable of stepping it up when it really matters they are only so useful.

My point about the dreaded patience is like this: Do you look at Nasri and say he has the ability so let's give it enough time for him to fit in and step up? If so as Mancini saw and realised that someone like Nasri was required, do you also let Mancini go through the process of getting Nasri to fire on all cylinders. If City are to get a real deal team sorted they have to allow the time for the players to get it together. A manager cannot just shout at Nasri to pull his finger out and step up on the pitch, take control and win games, it just isn't that fucking simple. If it were Peter Reid would be one of the top managers.

[Ted Hughes]

I think I'd agree largely with both of the above posts by Grob & EEE and the bit about the next 6 games being decisive.

My own personal prefferred plan, since the early days of the takeover, has been to build a club with its own style of play which takes a lot of its players from an academy which has players already trained in that style, so any player already knows how the 1st team plays before they even get near it. The manager then just becomes a coach for the 1st team details, not the arbiter of style.

I believe this is what the club are doing but I'm not entirely sure what they want in the short term.

If I was building that, I'd rather have Guardiola given time to do the 1st team bit & influence the rest than Bob, & I'd rather have Bob given time to do it than Mourinho, unless Mourinho truly decides to commit to a long term project.

[Ted Hughes]

Hardly a single post in this thread talking any sense at all, not surprising though we are all pissed off.

There is only one pill to swallow and right now it is big, very big, so big it will stick in your throat till next season. That pill is called PATIENCE

sorry but that's about it.

Mancini by the way is allowed to make mistakes, multiple times. This team is not ready, certain individuals are not ready. Despite appearances earlier in the season, the team may well know this themselves. No-one is stepping up, no-one taking responsibility, no-one trying to dictate the pace. City only have two players who have shown they can do that, Silva and Yaya. The English boys can't do it and the experienced prem players brought in also can't do it (yet).
We have seen the team performances slowly fall apart as the pressure has increased... they cannot yet hack it and they collectively don't know how to get themselves out of trouble when the key players are not there. They can all pass the ball till they go blind... but have deep down not got the trust in each other to resort to even that and pass their way out of trouble. Imo most of those players know that there are certain linchpins to the side and without them the confidence shrinks back.

Now this may or may not be Mancini's fault, but it is his responsibility to address it. My argument is that generally it would take longer than one season.
It is foolish to rely on any one player. Silva and Yaya play different roles but both are able to control games, Mancini got Nasri to extend that.. he hasn't been able to. Yaya apparently has no equal.
Watching Milner and Barry yesterday struggling to even chase the game never mind get a grip of it.. i actually felt a bit sorry for Mancini. City have good players but if they are incapable of stepping it up when it really matters they are only so useful.

My point about the dreaded patience is like this: Do you look at Nasri and say he has the ability so let's give it enough time for him to fit in and step up? If so as Mancini saw and realised that someone like Nasri was required, do you also let Mancini go through the process of getting Nasri to fire on all cylinders. If City are to get a real deal team sorted they have to allow the time for the players to get it together. A manager cannot just shout at Nasri to pull his finger out and step up on the pitch, take control and win games, it just isn't that fucking simple. If it were Peter Reid would be one of the top managers.

I don't know what you're arguing about tbh.

The three of us have just said something similar.

[getdressedmctavish]

The problem is this. There is no evidence Bob would identify and buy the right players, but more significantly, man manage them into a team.He's another Big Mal second time around. He knows his stuff but he cant simplify and motivate or submerge his personality.I think he's dead meat and I think the players sense it. I dont think we will have the run in required. It should be15 or 16 points now. Bet it aint half that.If Wolves get any kind of result against us, he's gone.

[EEE]

I think I'd agree largely with both of the above posts by Grob & EEE and the bit about the next 6 games being decisive.

My own personal prefferred plan, since the early days of the takeover, has been to build a club with its own style of play which takes a lot of its players from an academy which has players already trained in that style, so any player already knows how the 1st team plays before they even get near it. The manager then just becomes a coach for the 1st team details, not the arbiter of style.

I believe this is what the club are doing but I'm not entirely sure what they want in the short term.

If I was building that, I'd rather have Guardiola given time to do the 1st team bit & influence the rest than Bob, & I'd rather have Bob given time to do it than Mourinho, unless Mourinho truly decides to commit to a long term project.

That's what I would root us to aim for as well. I'm quite sure that's been/is the plan as well. Khaldoon has mentioned several times that the academy will be vital for our long term success and our recent efforts when it comes to talent scouting along with the constructions of the Academy Complex suggests we're moving along nicely towards that goal. However, obviously such a structure will take time before it comes off flying.

I believe our owners has the patience that most ppl on here lacks. I believe they will give Mancini another season (as long as there's no disagreements between them and Mancini regarding directions of the future ) to get things right. Whatever ppl are saying; we have made progress this season. As long as Mancini can answers their questions on what have gone wrong during the latest stage of the season and what he'll do to fix it nxt season (as long as that's not involving investments that's not feasible) - he'll be their man as well.

Once again; I don't think neither Guardiola or Mourinho would stay long enough with us (success or not) to be considered as the long serving manager we need for this PROJECT.

And, ppl will probably slate me for this but; even though chances are minimal - the title is not gone yet.

[brite blu sky]

I'm not arguing, just stating the obvious really. The majority of comments on the board right now are all going overboard, so maybe it is a reaction to that to try and balance the perspective.

Bottom line is Mancini has to stay tbh. There are two main threads to judge him on, one how the players he inherited shape up, two how the players he brought in shape up.
Assuming that all managers make some mistakes on players which they only find out over the course of time, particularly at times of high pressure.
I think Mancini has been prepared to gamble on players which is probably a good trait overall. I rekon the main thing is more about how players shake out.. which basically takes at least a season. They all started well and looked great, the majority have lost the plot as it has got tough.
Mancini or any manager has to find that out.
After yesterdays game it is no small wonder why he always plays Yaya and relied on Silva for nearly every game. No-one else is stepping up.. or more probably can't. The players on the pitch yesterday knew that and it sapped them. The faces of the coaches showed it too, they knew damn well that no-one on the pitch was going to lift the team's confidence.

My conclusion is that a team can never allow itself to be reliant on any one player. I said it about Tevez last season and now about Yaya and Silva. However getting a team to be able to have more than one linchpin/playmaker is a pure art, partly because you need two outstanding players playing very similar roles within the squad.. two egos possibly.. and all that goes with it.

Personally i think that Mancini knows this and quite possibly knows what it takes. I think he also has experience of that.. if maybe not enough yet. Unlike, i think Grob, I dont think he is a second tier manager like Benitez, I think he is first tier and will prove it.

The doubts I have are the levels of performance Mancini is getting from the English players, apart from Micah they really have been mediocre.