Mancini has to go?

[Lev Bronstein]

I've just had a horrible thought. We sack Bobby, line up Mourinho, who promises to join us. SAF sees his chance, retires, Jose can't resist the scum and gives us two fingers. We go for the best alternative - Benitez??? That should be a laugh.

[EEE]

I dont think Guardiola is the immediate answer, i think he would take time to adapt if he did come which could be a 3 season thing and not ideal.

I think if Mourinho came we would win the league next season. Thats my opinion and I think the mans record backs that up.

I agree it's hard to argue about Mourinhos track record. However, judging by the same track record he's not staying very long at the clubs he's managing. He wouldn't stay more than 2-3 seasons at City and my humble opinion is that the manager we believe is right for the next season; the same man we must believe, is not only the right one in five years - but also wanting to be here in fiver years. That "long term aspect" must be a hygiene factor when making our decision on who's to place our trust upon.

Mourinho is the Zlatan Ibrahimovic of manager´s. He's wins the titles wherever he goes but then get bored and wants new challenges so he moves on to another club. Ibrahimovic has won the domestic league every year for the last 8 years - for 5 different clubs. Mourinho has won the domestic league 6 times within the last 8 years - for 4 different clubs. Successful yes, loyal and a long term option; no.

[Ted Hughes]

I'm not arguing, just stating the obvious really. The majority of comments on the board right now are all going overboard, so maybe it is a reaction to that to try and balance the perspective.

Bottom line is Mancini has to stay tbh. There are two main threads to judge him on, one how the players he inherited shape up, two how the players he brought in shape up.
Assuming that all managers make some mistakes on players which they only find out over the course of time, particularly at times of high pressure.
I think Mancini has been prepared to gamble on players which is probably a good trait overall. I rekon the main thing is more about how players shake out.. which basically takes at least a season. They all started well and looked great, the majority have lost the plot as it has got tough.
Mancini or any manager has to find that out.
After yesterdays game it is no small wonder why he always plays Yaya and relied on Silva for nearly every game. No-one else is stepping up.. or more probably can't. The players on the pitch yesterday knew that and it sapped them. The faces of the coaches showed it too, they knew damn well that no-one on the pitch was going to lift the team's confidence.

My conclusion is that a team can never allow itself to be reliant on any one player. I said it about Tevez last season and now about Yaya and Silva. However getting a team to be able to have more than one linchpin/playmaker is a pure art, partly because you need two outstanding players playing very similar roles within the squad.. two egos possibly.. and all that goes with it.

Personally i think that Mancini knows this and quite possibly knows what it takes. I think he also has experience of that.. if maybe not enough yet. Unlike, i think Grob, I dont think he is a second tier manager like Benitez, I think he is first tier and will prove it.

The doubts I have are the levels of performance Mancini is getting from the English players, apart from Micah they really have been mediocre.

Lescott & Hart have not been mediocre & Barry has performed at his best probably more times than Silva & five times more than Nasri, Dzeko, Balotelli or Kolarov & I've contributed more to the team than Savic .

Milner & Johnson have both produced some absolute quality & some real mediocrity. The question is; would another manager of handled them better or is it their level ? We may not find out until both are gone.

Personally I think Bob is a top manager but I think he's absolutely crap at man management, whatever the nationality of the player & would be a dismal failure at Blackburn or Stoke in the same way Pulis or Keane would fail at City. Horses for courses. Bob needs quality players for his methods to work & he's in the position to get them. I do actually believe Moyes could do both but will never get the chance to prove it anywhere.


As I've said before though, if we're keeping Bob, that's fine by me but I don't trust him 100% after the last game & if the players don't play for him in the remaining games, he is dead in the water. If that happens now, there's no chance that will change, he will have to go or the shit will hit the fan & we'll be in big trouble next season, with transfer request all over the shop etc etc.

These games are crucial.

[Dameerto]

I still don't think the players want to play for him, I don't think he is capable of convincing them to play for him, and some of them are showing signs of not even wanting to play for themselves. His only objective now, should be securing second place (which is far from certain with our current form)

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

I'm not arguing, just stating the obvious really. The majority of comments on the board right now are all going overboard, so maybe it is a reaction to that to try and balance the perspective.

Bottom line is Mancini has to stay tbh. There are two main threads to judge him on, one how the players he inherited shape up, two how the players he brought in shape up.
Assuming that all managers make some mistakes on players which they only find out over the course of time, particularly at times of high pressure.
I think Mancini has been prepared to gamble on players which is probably a good trait overall. I rekon the main thing is more about how players shake out.. which basically takes at least a season. They all started well and looked great, the majority have lost the plot as it has got tough.
Mancini or any manager has to find that out.
After yesterdays game it is no small wonder why he always plays Yaya and relied on Silva for nearly every game. No-one else is stepping up.. or more probably can't. The players on the pitch yesterday knew that and it sapped them. The faces of the coaches showed it too, they knew damn well that no-one on the pitch was going to lift the team's confidence.

My conclusion is that a team can never allow itself to be reliant on any one player. I said it about Tevez last season and now about Yaya and Silva. However getting a team to be able to have more than one linchpin/playmaker is a pure art, partly because you need two outstanding players playing very similar roles within the squad.. two egos possibly.. and all that goes with it.

Personally i think that Mancini knows this and quite possibly knows what it takes. I think he also has experience of that.. if maybe not enough yet. Unlike, i think Grob, I dont think he is a second tier manager like Benitez, I think he is first tier and will prove it.

The doubts I have are the levels of performance Mancini is getting from the English players, apart from Micah they really have been mediocre.

Lescott & Hart have not been mediocre & Barry has performed at his best probably more times than Silva & five times more than Nasri, Dzeko, Balotelli or Kolarov & I've contributed more to the team than Savic .

Milner & Johnson have both produced some absolute quality & some real mediocrity. The question is; would another manager of handled them better or is it their level ? We may not find out until both are gone.

Personally I think Bob is a top manager but I think he's absolutely crap at man management, whatever the nationality of the player & would be a dismal failure at Blackburn or Stoke in the same way Pulis or Keane would fail at City. Horses for courses. Bob needs quality players for his methods to work & he's in the position to get them. I do actually believe Moyes could do both but will never get the chance to prove it anywhere.


As I've said before though, if we're keeping Bob, that's fine by me but I don't trust him 100% after the last game & if the players don't play for him in the remaining games, he is dead in the water. If that happens now, there's no chance that will change, he will have to go or the shit will hit the fan & we'll be in big trouble next season, with transfer request all over the shop etc etc.

These games are crucial.

The damage has already been done. these games mean fuck all, because when it counted he shit out.

[Renato_CTID]

Some of his comments after the game were pretty close to unacceptable from a manager. (In my unqualified opinion).

The same for me, mate! How could he seriously tell he never watched the 1st terrible foul of Mario? Why didn't he replace Mario as soon as possible with Tevez, AJ or Dzeko? Did Mancio understand he's working in Premier League, not in our stupid overrated Serie A?

[Dameerto]

Some of his comments after the game were pretty close to unacceptable from a manager. (In my unqualified opinion).

The same for me, mate! How could he seriously tell he never watched the 1st terrible foul of Mario? Why didn't he replace Mario as soon as possible with Tevez, AJ or Dzeko? Did Mancio understand he's working in Premier League, not in our stupid overrated Serie A?

He also ensured we would receive low bids from Italy for Mario in the summer rather than market rate.

[carl_feedthegoat]

Some of his comments after the game were pretty close to unacceptable from a manager. (In my unqualified opinion).

The same for me, mate! How could he seriously tell he never watched the 1st terrible foul of Mario? Why didn't he replace Mario as soon as possible with Tevez, AJ or Dzeko? Did Mancio understand he's working in Premier League, not in our stupid overrated Serie A?

He also ensured we would receive low bids from Italy for Mario in the summer rather than market rate.

THIS !

[Swales4ever]

If he has lost the dressing room, he has to go.
City comes first and above everything, including a good and wise project.
time will tell soon in the last 6.

[Dunnylad]

Does Mourinho give the kids a chance or does he buy quality players? Because if it's the latter he doesn't fit into our long term plan & is not the right choice. Guardiola has inherited that investment in youth, but once Xavi et al get too old is the production line still there or is it the end of the cycle? As much as I hate to admit Whiskey Nose has managed to reinvent successful rag bastard teams quite a few times now. All in all I'd prefer us to hang onto Mancini, but I'm disappointed enough to be swayed as I can't stand the rag fuckers with their condescending twatish attitude

[Dameerto]

Does Mourinho give the kids a chance or does he buy quality players? Because if it's the latter he doesn't fit into our long term plan & is not the right choice. Guardiola has inherited that investment in youth, but once Xavi et al get too old is the production line still there or is it the end of the cycle? As much as I hate to admit Whiskey Nose has managed to reinvent successful rag bastard teams quite a few times now. All in all I'd prefer us to hang onto Mancini, but I'm disappointed enough to be swayed as I can't stand the rag fuckers with their condescending twatish attitude

He gave Balotelli a chance, and probably the greatest motivator/man manager in the modern game came to the conclusion that he was unmanageable.

[Dunnylad]

He gave Balotelli a chance, and probably the greatest motivator/man manager in the modern game came to the conclusion that he was unmanageable.

Mancini gave Balotelli his chance surely?

[Grob]

I dont think Guardiola is the immediate answer, i think he would take time to adapt if he did come which could be a 3 season thing and not ideal.

I think if Mourinho came we would win the league next season. Thats my opinion and I think the mans record backs that up.

I agree it's hard to argue about Mourinhos track record. However, judging by the same track record he's not staying very long at the clubs he's managing. He wouldn't stay more than 2-3 seasons at City and my humble opinion is that the manager we believe is right for the next season; the same man we must believe, is not only the right one in five years - but also wanting to be here in fiver years. That "long term aspect" must be a hygiene factor when making our decision on who's to place our trust upon.

Mourinho is the Zlatan Ibrahimovic of manager´s. He's wins the titles wherever he goes but then get bored and wants new challenges so he moves on to another club. Ibrahimovic has won the domestic league every year for the last 8 years - for 5 different clubs. Mourinho has won the domestic league 6 times within the last 8 years - for 4 different clubs. Successful yes, loyal and a long term option; no.

I fully agree with the long term vision.

For me, we need to bring through young players into a championship and cup winning team for them to be tested at the highest level and to be benchmarked against championship winning players in their position.

In my opinion, before we can start bringing youngsters through we need to have a core of 20 players who have a couple of championships under their belt, the club is the leading club in England, and progressing to cup finals and winning them becomes the norm.

Then youngsters will know what the highest standard is and they're challange will be to displace the winners that are already there.

We need to become winners first before the long term vision can kick in, and not just one FA cup, my bare minimum target for next seasons would be a title win, a cup final, and QF at least in the Champions League.

I dont care who gets us there, Mancini, Mourinho, me, you, it doesnt matter to me. We just have to get there.

I think the best way there is to get Mourinho. If not, stick with Mancini. Your view is different. But as long as one of us is right, we'll both be happy.

[DoomMerchant]

He gave Balotelli a chance, and probably the greatest motivator/man manager in the modern game came to the conclusion that he was unmanageable.

Mancini gave Balotelli his chance surely?

he's saying that Mourinho gave Balotelli a chance to play and show his worth and he fucked it off and Mourinho labeled him as impossible and unwanted.

get it?

[Grob]

If he has lost the dressing room, he has to go.
City comes first and above everything, including a good and wise project.
time will tell soon in the last 6.

My personal view is the players are ambivilent to him. You rarely see any of them praise or criticise Mancni in the press, except Tevez of course but he's a thicket.

[Grob]

Personally I think Bob is a top manager but I think he's absolutely crap at man management, whatever the nationality of the player & would be a dismal failure at Blackburn or Stoke in the same way Pulis or Keane would fail at City. Horses for courses. Bob needs quality players for his methods to work & he's in the position to get them. I do actually believe Moyes could do both but will never get the chance to prove it anywhere.


As I've said before though, if we're keeping Bob, that's fine by me but I don't trust him 100% after the last game & if the players don't play for him in the remaining games, he is dead in the water. If that happens now, there's no chance that will change, he will have to go or the shit will hit the fan & we'll be in big trouble next season, with transfer request all over the shop etc etc.

These games are crucial.

You cant say he's a top manager then say he's a crap man manager! Clearly he isnt a top manager if he cant man manage!

I agree though that these next 6 are crucial for Mancini. He needs to start winning again, and in style to get another shot at it.

The thing is, marooned in second place as we are, these arent particulally crucial games to some of the players with the Euro's looming, there isnt really anything to play for.

A continuation of the last 4 months will probably seal his fate, and most likely should. We've suddenly gone from being a dominating force to being some kind of comeback kings, which hasnt got us anywhere. We have gone backwards since the start of the season and I havent seen any signs of the rot stopping for a while.

[Dunnylad]

he's saying that Mourinho gave Balotelli a chance to play and show his worth and he fucked it off and Mourinho labeled him as impossible and unwanted.

get it?

I asked if Mourinho gave youth a chance, Balotelli had already been given his chance by Mancini at Inter so doesn't really count - I just can't remember many great young players who Mourinho brought through at Chelsea, Real

[Ted Hughes]

Personally I think Bob is a top manager but I think he's absolutely crap at man management, whatever the nationality of the player & would be a dismal failure at Blackburn or Stoke in the same way Pulis or Keane would fail at City. Horses for courses. Bob needs quality players for his methods to work & he's in the position to get them. I do actually believe Moyes could do both but will never get the chance to prove it anywhere.


As I've said before though, if we're keeping Bob, that's fine by me but I don't trust him 100% after the last game & if the players don't play for him in the remaining games, he is dead in the water. If that happens now, there's no chance that will change, he will have to go or the shit will hit the fan & we'll be in big trouble next season, with transfer request all over the shop etc etc.

These games are crucial.

You cant say he's a top manager then say he's a crap man manager! Clearly he isnt a top manager if he cant man manage!

I agree though that these next 6 are crucial for Mancini. He needs to start winning again, and in style to get another shot at it.

The thing is, marooned in second place as we are, these arent particulally crucial games to some of the players with the Euro's looming, there isnt really anything to play for.

A continuation of the last 4 months will probably seal his fate, and most likely should. We've suddenly gone from being a dominating force to being some kind of comeback kings, which hasnt got us anywhere. We have gone backwards since the start of the season and I havent seen any signs of the rot stopping for a while.

I can. I don't think you neccessarily have to be both at the top level, especially if your coaches can take care of it.

I don't think Brian Clough was a great man manager either, just enigmatic & unpredictable, but he got results & was a great football manager, for a period.

The fact we have been comeback kings recently & slaughtered teams for half an hour (exactly as the rags have done at their best) is exactly why I'm so pissed off about yesterday; as I tried to explain to Mancio on the other thread, imo it's exactly what was required & we've proved we can do it from bad positions on days when we are struggling.

The fact that he'll do that when we're being outplayed by Porto & Sunderland & are several goals behind but at 0-0 v Arsenal has to be an Italian football tactical genius pisses me off no end. It's just spineless. We're level and haven't lost yet so lets worry about the opposition instead of making them change the way they arte playing & worry about us ? Only attack full tilt if you have no other choice ? Bollocks.

[poh]

I'm not arguing, just stating the obvious really. The majority of comments on the board right now are all going overboard, so maybe it is a reaction to that to try and balance the perspective.

Bottom line is Mancini has to stay tbh. There are two main threads to judge him on, one how the players he inherited shape up, two how the players he brought in shape up.
Assuming that all managers make some mistakes on players which they only find out over the course of time, particularly at times of high pressure.
I think Mancini has been prepared to gamble on players which is probably a good trait overall. I rekon the main thing is more about how players shake out.. which basically takes at least a season. They all started well and looked great, the majority have lost the plot as it has got tough.
Mancini or any manager has to find that out.
After yesterdays game it is no small wonder why he always plays Yaya and relied on Silva for nearly every game. No-one else is stepping up.. or more probably can't. The players on the pitch yesterday knew that and it sapped them. The faces of the coaches showed it too, they knew damn well that no-one on the pitch was going to lift the team's confidence.

My conclusion is that a team can never allow itself to be reliant on any one player. I said it about Tevez last season and now about Yaya and Silva. However getting a team to be able to have more than one linchpin/playmaker is a pure art, partly because you need two outstanding players playing very similar roles within the squad.. two egos possibly.. and all that goes with it.

Personally i think that Mancini knows this and quite possibly knows what it takes. I think he also has experience of that.. if maybe not enough yet. Unlike, i think Grob, I dont think he is a second tier manager like Benitez, I think he is first tier and will prove it.

The doubts I have are the levels of performance Mancini is getting from the English players, apart from Micah they really have been mediocre.

Got to agree with this,there are players in the team who have failed to step up time and time again.

[Blue Since 76]

Got to agree with this,there are players in the team who have failed to step up time and time again.

Such as? I agree that there are a number who fall into this category - Nasri, Milner, Kolarov, dzeko, balotelli, Savic, AJ. With the exception of AJ who was just rubber stamped by Mancini, he signed them all. That's a worrying record for someone who wants another £100m to spend this summer.

As a coach, I'd say that Micah and Lescott have both improved under Mancini. I'm not sure anyone else has and again, that's a worry, as surely a good manager gets the best out of players, rather than just buying the best players?