Mancini has to go?

[carl_feedthegoat]

The only part of the sentiments in the last two posts I agree with are that the buck stops with the manager... so over time he has to sort out any deficiency, motivational or technical. I believe that Mancini has work to do on both those. However I firmly believe that the players shoulder a large part of any responsibility in games. On Sunday I saw a lot of City players struggling to cope and not responding with enough effort, I don't care what the manager says or doesn't in such a game there is no need whatsoever for any motivation.

Outside Sunday, recently the team has lost its mojo.. in fact it has been steadily slipping since new year. Instead of reacting to one off games I think it is more insightful to look at the bigger picture.. especially when discussing the manager's role.

1st half season: Mancini arrived and shored up the defence - but City struggled to play out of midfield, the attack was ad hoc at best.
2nd season: Mancini gets the midfield operating, slowly but surely they learn how to play forwards - the attack is still a complete shambles but starts to improve just a bit, relied basically on Tevez's one man show.
3rd Season: Attack is bolted on, some class players finally take advantage of City's solidity out of defence and dominant midfield, team goes bananas on a total high... but something is not quite right yet but City get away with it because teams are basically too frightened to try and play us. Nasri is not really performing, Silva is getting tired, Yaya disappears. The onus of responsibility to carry on playing like we were shifts to other players. Dzeko can't step it up enough, his touch is inconsistent, Balotelli is a wildcard at best and Tevez has gone awol. Cracks are appearing and soft goals are conceeded on a regular basis, because by now the team is actually trying to play in a way that it cannot sustain, leaves stupid gaps assuming they will keep and hold possession and that oppos won't try anything too daring. Bang, Bang, Bang we lose games left right and centre due to leaving the defence out on a limb. Oppos take note, City have a weakness, thanks Napoli.

Basically and quite literally we have gone backwards. We have lost the confidence of the forward midfield and attack, it no longer functions.

I have been blabbing on all fucking year about the fact that bringing in players and it clicking is pure luck and exuberance. When that initial surge goes it is down to the hard business of making that exuberance occur WHEN you want it to and not by chance.
Welcome to the real world.. it isn't easy.
That and only that is what this team is suffering from... it isn't just play it is serious.

Again I have said it all fucking year that this would happen and it would take some epiphany or crisis to shake it all out. I have also been saying that it will only be next season when Mancini should be judged as there were too many new faces coming in in one go to have the time to make the team, other than pure luck. Dzeko only came the prev Jan, Balo was out for large chunks of the prev season, Nasri, Aguero came at the last minute before the season. Bar Silva that is the whole attacking line up to sort itself and shake out. Not going to happen and never would. No-one on here seems to be able to accept it - apart from say john68 and others with long standing experience - but time is needed for these things to be sorted out. Not never ending time, but reasonable time.
We lost - we are not yet good enough - get over it and stop whinging and look again at the club motto.

Just to confirm all this i would like to see Mancini keep the same players next season and get on with it. I can only make a case for another decent ball keeper/player in midfield and we will win the title.

We will more than likely not have the same players next season if Mancini stays ,I reckon Dzeko wants to go (and who can blame him) and will go..Tevez will go...Ballo will prob go maybe NDJ will go..Milner Barry AJ are possibles..I actually hope we do let Milner and slug go..squad players at best......I reckon there is a can of worms waiting to open on who wants to fuck off and who will be fucked off if Mancini stays with us.

Dont be too fuckign sure that Mancini (should he stay)will have most of his squad for next season......and people worry about a new manager coming in and making wholesome changes ffs !

[Im_Spartacus]

I have been blabbing on all fucking year about the fact that bringing in players and it clicking is pure luck and exuberance. When that initial surge goes it is down to the hard business of making that exuberance occur WHEN you want it to and not by chance.
Welcome to the real world.. it isn't easy.

That and only that is what this team is suffering from... it isn't just play it is serious.

Again I have said it all fucking year that this would happen and it would take some epiphany or crisis to shake it all out. I have also been saying that it will only be next season when Mancini should be judged as there were too many new faces coming in in one go to have the time to make the team, other than pure luck. Dzeko only came the prev Jan, Balo was out for large chunks of the prev season, Nasri, Aguero came at the last minute before the season. Bar Silva that is the whole attacking line up to sort itself and shake out. Not going to happen and never would.

Sorry mate, you are making excuses here.

Balotelli not only has been here two full seasons, he played under Mancini before
Dzeko had a great start to the season, after we had been told his first 8 months playing poorly was due to him needing to settle in

Making excuses for these two is absolutely fucking ridiculous. Balotelli is a nut job, and Dzeko is played in a system which implies he was never fucking scouted before we bought him.

Nasri has been poor most of the season - I wouldn't count on him getting much better, this is what he did for Arsenal

Aguero has come in and scored 20 odd goals

It seems this is already a perpetual ready made excuse for failure - and it's bullshit. Are you telling me that Liverpools problems are that the players havent gelled - is it fuck, it is that their manager is a tactical spastic (except against one opponent).

Mancini seems hell bent on getting shut of Balo / Tevez / Ade + name your player here, and imagine are replaced - all over again, we have bleeding hearts telling us there has to be a gelling period........welll here is an idea, Mancini can stick gelling up his fucking arse, learn from his mistakes, or next season we can keep the players he doesn't want, and bring in a manager who will work with them (whoever that might be).

I guarantee we will do NO worse than we have done this season and save a fortune in transfer fees and excuses in the process.

In fact, no we will probably win everthing, because the players will have gelled more and had another pre season behind them.

Maybe it will be the Euros that's the excuse this time round? Or the Olympics

[brite blu sky]

You could easily be right there Carl, as a lot are saying now these next games are going to tell us what's what.
The FFP or whatever its called is going to lock out a lot of wholesale shit and will be on the owners minds in any decisions, for that matter managers as well.
i doubt though that the players and staff have the same reaction as fans though. You may turn out to correct, but equally it would not surprise me to even still see the little cunt Tevez next season and Dzeko and Balotelli. Not just saying that.. it really would not surprise me.

[brite blu sky]

I have been blabbing on all fucking year about the fact that bringing in players and it clicking is pure luck and exuberance. When that initial surge goes it is down to the hard business of making that exuberance occur WHEN you want it to and not by chance.
Welcome to the real world.. it isn't easy.

That and only that is what this team is suffering from... it isn't just play it is serious.

Again I have said it all fucking year that this would happen and it would take some epiphany or crisis to shake it all out. I have also been saying that it will only be next season when Mancini should be judged as there were too many new faces coming in in one go to have the time to make the team, other than pure luck. Dzeko only came the prev Jan, Balo was out for large chunks of the prev season, Nasri, Aguero came at the last minute before the season. Bar Silva that is the whole attacking line up to sort itself and shake out. Not going to happen and never would.

Sorry mate, you are making excuses here.

Balotelli not only has been here two full seasons, he played under Mancini before
Dzeko had a great start to the season, after we had been told his first 8 months playing poorly was due to him needing to settle in

Making excuses for these two is absolutely fucking ridiculous. Balotelli is a nut job, and Dzeko is played in a system which implies he was never fucking scouted before we bought him.

Nasri has been poor most of the season - I wouldn't count on him getting much better, this is what he did for Arsenal

Aguero has come in and scored 20 odd goals

It seems this is already a perpetual ready made excuse for failure - and it's bullshit. Are you telling me that Liverpools problems are that the players havent gelled - is it fuck, it is that their manager is a tactical spastic (except against one opponent).

Mancini seems hell bent on getting shut of Balo / Tevez / Ade + name your player here, and imagine are replaced - all over again, we have bleeding hearts telling us there has to be a gelling period........welll here is an idea, Mancini can stick gelling up his fucking arse, learn from his mistakes, or next season we can keep the players he doesn't want, and bring in a manager who will work with them (whoever that might be).

I guarantee we will do NO worse than we have done this season and save a fortune in transfer fees and excuses in the process.

In fact, no we will probably win everthing, because the players will have gelled more and had another pre season behind them.

Maybe it will be the Euros that's the excuse this time round? Or the Olympics

I'm not making excuses for anything, Im just writing what I have consistently thought - even when Aguero and co looked great. What i am certainly not doing is whinging and looking for escaped goats.
I'd suggest that the way you are looking at all this would take the club to Ambramovich land, maybe fine with you, not something i would want at all.

[Dazzacity]

Look how players have slipped off the pace the longer they have been at the club. Is this down to our training and coaching metheds being very poor and sapping these players natural play out of them until they stoop down to the poor coaching they are subjected to week in week out?? Players should surely become better the longer they're in the team, not worse!!. Players like Nasri dont become likened to the likes of Messi and then become pretty much shite once he signs for us for no reason. Aguero, Dzeko,Silva,milner,Johnson,Clichy.... these players are not the players they have shown for us in the past or for their previous clubs. There is serious problems behind the scenes at City, whether it be unreast between mancini and the players for one reason or another or maybe the guys behind the scenes are out of their depth?? The only players that seemed to have been pretty consistant for us are the defensive ones in Richards,Hart,Zabs,Kompany and even Lescott looks to have improved.

Tactically,we are no way near as good as we should be going forward. We have also scored a few late ones of late.Is this down to the players thinking 'bollox to the managers orders ,lets just do it our way' Was it Ratface that said we need to let loose to just play our game rather than being too scripted?? I think this is totally true! Im confident that if the right team selection was picked and basic orders were given and the players were told to just go out there and do their thing we would be a better side for it. Also with the manager making the correct changes when need be.He has fooked me off with his late or incorrect subs of lates. What the fook is going through his mind!!

[Grob]

2) Kolorov came on because we were getting murdered on the left

5) RM not learnt? The board was full of praise 4 months ago, about how HE'D LEARNT and taken the shackles off.

2) Kolorov played in a deep midfield role. He was on the pitch primarily in the off chance we got a free kick in a good area.

5) Have we or have we not progressivly got worse since November? This isnt just a 2 or 3 match thing, its been going on for months. Arent teams full of top players supposed to get better the more thay play together, not worse?

[Grob]

Do let me get this straight, people looking to fire Mancini think so because his tactics are wrong (second place in the league in his second year in charge) or because he didn't win the league(cause a team like liverpool hasn't had trouble winning this same trophy for a decade) or maybe because we only beat Scum 6-1 at their house(surely we should have had 2 more at least) but maybe its because we won the FA cup (to damn soon for such a dumb manager) I'm confused.

Some people was to see the back of Mancini due to the fact that the team, most of the player, and the tactics, have got progressivly worse since mid november and feel there is no signs of that changing at the moment.

Not an unreasonable viewpoint im sure you'll agree

[bigblue]

The most fair (and accurate) way to judge teams and managers is on a per-season basis. Cherry picking a few months out disregards the ongoing situations that may have contributed to a run of results.

Compared to last season we have improved. The ship is reaching our destination. Don't panic because a bad weather caused a delay in our voyage. We are heading in the right direction. No need to change managers. Have patience and we shall reach the promised land soon.

[Ted Hughes]

Whilst I'm not cheering on a lynching party to hang Mancini & bring in Rafa fucking Benitez, which is far more likely than getting Mourinho, some of the posts making excuses for his mistakes are fucking ridiculous.

I don't want him sacked, I've backed him all season but I've also freely admitted to stuff that he's done which has stunk the place out. Arsenal was the lowest point for me but the bloke signed & PLAYED SAVIC FOR FUCKS SAKE. That's one great big steaming shite of a mistake.

The day Savic played his 1st City game was THE DAY that people started to think City were vulnerable, after watching a complete fucking retard (Jay Bothroyd) turn him inside out. Then ALMOST ALL THE OTHER GAMES HE PLAYED, we spent half the time shitting ourselves & being knocked out of competitions. THIS WAS MANCINI'S FAULT.

Back him by all means, as I do, but back him honestly mistakes and all, not some phoney Pravda 'pretend it's everyone else's fault' kind of way. There is an argument for sacking him. It's not stupid, it's fair but imo it's wrong at this time & there are only about two blokes in the world who MAY improve on him.

If one of those two comes in, it's understandable but imo, still a gamble.

Replacing him for Tom Dick or Harry is not a good idea at all unless the players now force him out, in which case, keeping him becomes the gamble.

[Kiss_The_Goat]

We're not going to sack him, and I hope next season when we win the league and Mancini becomes a City legend, you all come back and see how ridiculous some of the posts in this thread are... yeah its been a disappointing few weeks, and Im as gutted as anyone we haven't won the league, but we've made HUGE strides this season, it's a relatively young and inexperienced team when it comes to winning the Premiership, and they cracked under the pressure. This experience will be invaluable for the future. Look at the bigger picture and get ready for silverware next season with Mancini in charge - Mourinho is waiting for Fergie to retire, and Benitez is total dog shit.

[carl_feedthegoat]

Whilst I'm not cheering on a lynching party to hang Mancini & bring in Rafa fucking Benitez, which is far more likely than getting Mourinho, some of the posts making excuses for his mistakes are fucking ridiculous.

I don't want him sacked, I've backed him all season but I've also freely admitted to stuff that he's done which has stunk the place out. Arsenal was the lowest point for me but the bloke signed & PLAYED SAVIC FOR FUCKS SAKE. That's one great big steaming shite of a mistake.

The day Savic played his 1st City game was THE DAY that people started to think City were vulnerable, after watching a complete fucking retard (Jay Bothroyd) turn him inside out. Then ALMOST ALL THE OTHER GAMES HE PLAYED, we spent half the time shitting ourselves & being knocked out of competitions. THIS WAS MANCINI'S FAULT.

Back him by all means, as I do, but back him honestly mistakes and all, not some phoney Pravda 'pretend it's everyone else's fault' kind of way. There is an argument for sacking him. It's not stupid, it's fair but imo it's wrong at this time & there are only about two blokes in the world who MAY improve on him.

If one of those two comes in, it's understandable but imo, still a gamble.

Replacing him for Tom Dick or Harry is not a good idea at all unless the players now force him out, in which case, keeping him becomes the gamble.

This why your respected on here instead of the muppet brigade who do make excuses....well said mate although I still want him sacked.

[bigblue]

Found this posting on the internets from a CIty fan and thought it offers much needed perspective:

Mancini, on his first ever English title challenge against one of the best managers in the history of football, will probably finish second to a team who will secure the record amount of points ever in a PL season. And he went into this managers backyard and humiliated him, making him comment that it was his worst day in the 55 year career he has experienced.

It's knee jerk nownownow syndrome, it's prevelant all over football but especially in us City fans because we're desperate to win the big one and proved that we've arrived.

Look at the difference in the team between when Mancini started and now. Every player has improved, especially our back five who have all moved towards world class territory. Richards especially looks a new player, Barry is putting in some of his best performances in his career. Kompany has become Kompany. Hart became our number one and the nations number one. We won our first trophy, beating our rivals to do so.

Mancini has done an incredible job at City and given time he will win us the league. It's hard to take that we're effectively out of the title race and tne manner which our away form dipped in the last few weeks. Kompany and Lescott been out whilst Dzeko and Aguero missing a beat twatted us. However, this is no time to lose perspective.

Khaldoon said that this is a ten year plan to make City one of the biggest clubs in the world. Look at the immense progress made already and it's only year 4. Imagine where we will be in year 8 or 9.

Mancini has done a great job and I wouldn't swap the clubs state for anybody in the world right now. Cusp of greatness my friend, this is our 1991, you need these seasons to focus you next time. You gotta lose before you can win as the old saying goes

[Beefymcfc]

I agree.

I had little complaint about our 1st half, we kept in the game with a bit of good fortune & some stoical defending, took the sting out of Arsenal & set ourselves up for the big finish, where we bring on Tevez & Dzeko & blast Arsenal out of the game with constant pressure around their penalty area, like champions do. Then took off Nasri & brought on Kolarov because we wre worried.

It was shameful & there's no excuse for it but once again, it's not only Mancini that fucks up; all managers do.

If we are to replace him, there has to be strong evidence that the bloke who comes in will be significantly better, rather than just sacking Bob as punishment because he makde some mistakes.

If we were to sack him & get it wrong, we would be going from a position of great strength as a club, with loads of future options, to one of vulnerability with few options left.

Remember the subtitution that got ranieri sacked...........champions league semi final vs monaco, chelsea would probably have won the bloody competition but he did something similar. I remember watching it at the time thinking my god, what the fuck has he just done...............

Mourinho came in, took ranieris squad to the next level in the league, and the rest is history. Ranieri was that close to greatness, but he reverted to being italian at the crucial moment.

Incredible paralells one might say

This is what I agree and disagree with, comparing the situation with them then to us now. What I agree is similar is that Ranieri had been there for 3 years and had steered them from 6th to 4th to 2nd before Mourinho came in and took them that extra step, but his situation was more similar to Hughes as it was only when Abramovich took over in his third year that the money came in and he was moved on. Ranieri didn't win anything at Chelsea but ensured continuing CL qualification which probably brought Roman in in the first place.

The main difference is that Mancini is the one that the owners brought in after Hughes was seen to be clearly not upto the job of taking us that step further.

However, what I'd like to know from anybody who is on this 'Mourinho Bandwaggon' is why he is even being compared? I mean, is he on his way to us from Real as the last time I seen anything of this he was denying it rigorously stating that it was the Barca media trying to put a dent in their title aspirations (also mentioned that the Aguero link was also to destabilise the club)? Is it just people throwing his name in the air and hoping that the fairy's bring the 'Special One' down to the Etihad?

I'm not sure why we are comparing Mancini to Mourinho as I don't understand the rationale unless Jose is leaving one of the most expensively assembled and reknowned sides in the world for a City team who are relatively at the beginning of 'The Project'? Is there nobody else in people's minds that we can have a debate about instead of trying to find fault in a manager who's been here a couple of seasons and compare him to one who has won so much? It just seems irrelevant to me.

[Kiss_The_Goat]

Found this posting on the internets from a CIty fan and thought it offers much needed perspective:

Mancini, on his first ever English title challenge against one of the best managers in the history of football, will probably finish second to a team who will secure the record amount of points ever in a PL season. And he went into this managers backyard and humiliated him, making him comment that it was his worst day in the 55 year career he has experienced.

It's knee jerk nownownow syndrome, it's prevelant all over football but especially in us City fans because we're desperate to win the big one and proved that we've arrived.

Look at the difference in the team between when Mancini started and now. Every player has improved, especially our back five who have all moved towards world class territory. Richards especially looks a new player, Barry is putting in some of his best performances in his career. Kompany has become Kompany. Hart became our number one and the nations number one. We won our first trophy, beating our rivals to do so.

Mancini has done an incredible job at City and given time he will win us the league. It's hard to take that we're effectively out of the title race and tne manner which our away form dipped in the last few weeks. Kompany and Lescott been out whilst Dzeko and Aguero missing a beat twatted us. However, this is no time to lose perspective.

Khaldoon said that this is a ten year plan to make City one of the biggest clubs in the world. Look at the immense progress made already and it's only year 4. Imagine where we will be in year 8 or 9.

Mancini has done a great job and I wouldn't swap the clubs state for anybody in the world right now. Cusp of greatness my friend, this is our 1991, you need these seasons to focus you next time. You gotta lose before you can win as the old saying goes

Exactly... "You gotta lose before you can win" - says it all

[Ted Hughes]

There is a huge similarity with the position Chelsea were in when Ranieri was sacked & Mourinho took over, that is undeniable, but we have got there much much quicker & been there for much much less time.

Nobody will ever know if Ranieri would have taken the extra step with that Chelsea team. He built a lot of it & put it into shape, just like Mancini did at Inter before Mourinho took over there.

It's not impossible that he could have done the same as Mourinho but stayed there afterwards & kept it going rather than embarking them on the current shambles. He did a fantastic job at Chelsea imo.

The same could be said of Mancini at Inter, he could still be there now guiding them to another title.

[Grob]

Found this posting on the internets from a CIty fan and thought it offers much needed perspective:

Mancini, on his first ever English title challenge against one of the best managers in the history of football, will probably finish second to a team who will secure the record amount of points ever in a PL season. And he went into this managers backyard and humiliated him, making him comment that it was his worst day in the 55 year career he has experienced.

It's knee jerk nownownow syndrome, it's prevelant all over football but especially in us City fans because we're desperate to win the big one and proved that we've arrived.

Look at the difference in the team between when Mancini started and now. Every player has improved, especially our back five who have all moved towards world class territory. Richards especially looks a new player, Barry is putting in some of his best performances in his career. Kompany has become Kompany. Hart became our number one and the nations number one. We won our first trophy, beating our rivals to do so.

Mancini has done an incredible job at City and given time he will win us the league. It's hard to take that we're effectively out of the title race and tne manner which our away form dipped in the last few weeks. Kompany and Lescott been out whilst Dzeko and Aguero missing a beat twatted us. However, this is no time to lose perspective.

Khaldoon said that this is a ten year plan to make City one of the biggest clubs in the world. Look at the immense progress made already and it's only year 4. Imagine where we will be in year 8 or 9.

Mancini has done a great job and I wouldn't swap the clubs state for anybody in the world right now. Cusp of greatness my friend, this is our 1991, you need these seasons to focus you next time. You gotta lose before you can win as the old saying goes

Exactly... "You gotta lose before you can win" - says it all

No you dont

Mourinho won the Prem in his first season here

Anchelotti won the Prem in his first season here

As for the attached post, glass half full summary, nothing wrong with that.

[getdressedmctavish]

Ted, you've mafe some great points. All managers buy duff players(Ferguson) and have favourites(Mourinio with the Porto fullback)But I cant agree that you need to be one of the best managers in the world to realise when we all did Savic and Ballo would cost us games. My view is a lot of managers with a bit of sense could manage City by putting out a balanced team with width and you dont need the best players in the world as the rag journeymen have shown. I agree the last six games will be indicative.Never was a truer word spoken imo than Doug's report of an ex pro saying"he's put all his eggs in one BASKET and will pay the price"Make that one basket,one duffer, and one MF who is totally unable to carry the team in the way that seems to have been asked of him.who do I fancy? Anyone but the fat waiter.Someone with a decent IQ and good man management skills. Lambert would do a good job imo but we will go for a big name, wrongly unless its mourinio imo.Will we be back here in any event. Course we will. Its typical City and pointless to resist. Even Mourinio will succumb.lol

[Grob]

There is a huge similarity with the position Chelsea were in when Ranieri was sacked & Mourinho took over, that is undeniable, but we have got there much much quicker & been there for much much less time.

Nobody will ever know if Ranieri would have taken the extra step with that Chelsea team. He built a lot of it & put it into shape, just like Mancini did at Inter before Mourinho took over there.

It's not impossible that he could have done the same as Mourinho but stayed there afterwards & kept it going rather than embarking them on the current shambles. He did a fantastic job at Chelsea imo.

The same could be said of Mancini at Inter, he could still be there now guiding them to another title.

I dont like all this trying to find comparisons with situations other clubs have found themselves in. Too many intangibles to benchmark IMO though I can see why we do it, to try and find answers.

I'd hate to think the club will base decisions on whats happened at previous clubs in slightly similar situations.

[Ted Hughes]

Ted, you've mafe some great points. All managers buy duff players(Ferguson) and have favourites(Mourinio with the Porto fullback)But I cant agree that you need to be one of the best managers in the world to realise when we all did Savic and Ballo would cost us games. My view is a lot of managers with a bit of sense could manage City by putting out a balanced team with width and you dont need the best players in the world as the rag journeymen have shown. I agree the last six games will be indicative.Never was a truer word spoken imo than Doug's report of an ex pro saying"he's put all his eggs in one BASKET and will pay the price"Make that one basket,one duffer, and one MF who is totally unable to carry the team in the way that seems to have been asked of him.who do I fancy? Anyone but the fat waiter.Someone with a decent IQ and good man management skills. Lambert would do a good job imo but we will go for a big name, wrongly unless its mourinio imo.Will we be back here in any event. Course we will. Its typical City and pointless to resist. Even Mourinio will succumb.lol

I don't know what the fuck he was thinking of re Savic but I've lost count over the years of the number of times Mourinho has made me wonder what the fuck he is doing.

I recon that question is about to be asked again after Barca get stuck into his team.

[bigblue]

No you dont

Mourinho won the Prem in his first season here

Anchelotti won the Prem in his first season here

As for the attached post, glass half full summary, nothing wrong with that.

Mancini won the FA Cup in his first season here, whats your point? You think Anchelotti or Mourinho would have guaranteed us the league this year? If so, let me remind you the the grass always seems greener on the other side...

And I'd say the summary above is more of a glass 4/5 full. You can harp on and on about the missing 1/5, but you're losing sight of the bigger picture